Idea for a new gimmick match

[humanoid92 0]

I have an idea for a match that takes some elements from other gimmick matches, like War Games, Tag Team Turmoil, Survivor Series matches, etc. This isn't a Fantasy Booking; it's an idea I think the WWE could use today, and I'm going to give examples to illustrate how it might work.

 

There are two teams. Depending on how long the match is designed to go, there can be four people per team, five people per team, eight people per team; whatever.

 

A member of Team A starts out against a member of Team B. They have a straight-up wrestling match. When one of the participants loses, someone else from his team replaces him and begins a new match with the victor of the previous match (who, depending on how the first match went, may or may not be very fatigued).

 

There *could* be a random Royal Rumble type-drawing to determine the order of participants for each team, but I would MUCH rather allow the teams to decide the order in which they are used as the match progresses. This way, they can use strategy based on matchups. For instance, if one team has Kane, and he squashes two or three opponents in a row (think Diesel at Survivor Series '94), the other team can counter with the Undertaker to stop the bleeding, rather than saving Taker for last as they may have originally planned. This way there's a lot of strategy involved; almost like the way baseball managers juggle their pitching staffs in the playoffs.

 

Here's a sample match (with a certain timeless quality) to demonstrate how such an idea would work:

 

Team A: Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart, British Bulldog & Dynamite Kid

Team B: Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall & Sean Waltman

 

Match #1: Dynamite Kid vs. HHH. Both would be sensible choices for "lead-off" men. You want to start strong, and put someone that has a chance of lasting awhile out there, without burning up your "closers" (Bret or Shawn) right off the bat. HHH goes over after a 20 minute battle... so now the Harts counter with Owen for Match #2.

 

Match #2: Owen Hart vs. HHH. HHH has already wrestled a 20+ minute match, so as well-conditioned as HHH is, a fresh Owen should be able to wear him down eventually, which is exactly what happens in about 15-18 minutes. The Kliq decide to put Waltman in there next, as he's even quicker than Owen.

 

Match #3: Owen Hart vs. Sean Waltman. Fast-paced match sees Waltman take a lot of high risks, the last of which backfires, resulting in another win for Owen at the 10-12 minute mark. Now the Kliq is down a man, so they send out their big guy to turn things around.

 

Match #4: Owen Hart vs. Kevin Nash. Owen doesn't have much hope against a fresh Nash, and Nash gets him with the powerbomb after about 6-8 minutes. The Harts counter with their powerhouse, the Anvil.

 

Match #5: Jim Neidhart vs. Kevin Nash. Good but short power match ends badly for Neidhart, who gets powerbombed and pinned after 4-5 minutes.

 

Match #6: British Bulldog vs. Kevin Nash. Another power-based match sees a screwy finish, as Nash gets disqualified after 12 minutes. Nash, however, lays Bulldog out with a powerbomb after the match. The Kliq sends out Razor, as they don't need Shawn just yet, hoping Hall can finish things up on his own.

 

Match #7: British Bulldog vs. Scott Hall. Bulldog is out of it from the powerbomb, but Razor can't put him away. Bulldog has a few hope spots, but when Razor counters the Powerslam, Bulldog is done at the 9 minute mark.

 

Match #8: Bret Hart vs. Scott Hall. Bret is the last hope for his team- if and when he is defeated, the Kliq wins. Bret is able to beat Hall at the 14 minute mark.

 

Match #9: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels. It comes down to the captains, and Shawn obviously has a slight advantage. This one can end up going 30 minutes or so, as both are relatively fresh... I'll let your own preference decide the winner. I'm a Bret guy, myself.

 

The way this match is set up, it can last around two hours (not that every match like this would have to go so long), but because of all the different matchups, the strategies being used, and the booking options, I think this type of match could work. Of course, you'd need the right workers (the best workers) and the right storyline.

 

For those concerned about the flow of a two hour match, I would argue that the Royal Rumble lasts for over an hour and no one complains about it being too long. Granted, there are a lot more participants in the Rumble, but I think the overall storyline of this match and the revolving participants would hold the attention of fans. If need be, there could be brief intermissions every couple of matches, which would allow the team members in the locker room to be interviewed about how the match is dictating their strategy.

 

As far as using this match to fit into a storyline, something like this could have been used to end the Invasion angle. They could have had a special PPV that was composed entirely of a match like this. Put the top eight WWF guys and the top eight Alliance guys on separate teams and have the winner take all.

 

This could also work in the future if they decide to end the Brand Extension. Eight guys for Raw, and eight guys for Smackdown, on a special PPV, where this is the only match. HBK, HHH, Angle, Flair, Cena, Kane, Big Show & Edge vs. Undertaker, Benoit, Batista, JBL, Orton, Mysterio, Booker & Matt Hardy. It could work. (Of course guys like Eddie, Jericho, and Christian would have added a LOT to a match like this.)

 

And just because there are sixteen guys doesn't mean everyone would have to be used. In my above scenario, it was kind of predictable that it would come down to Bret and Shawn in the end. But it should be made clear before the match that not everyone on the winning team has to participate in order for the match to end. In theory, if Kurt Angle starts the match, and somehow ends up beating all eight Smackdown opponents, one after the other, he could win the match for his team by himself, without anyone else from Raw ever having to enter. That would be an extreme example, but the announcers should put over the possibility.

 

In the Raw/Smackdown match, maybe one of the storylines would be that the Raw team still doesn't trust Edge very much because he has stated that he doesn't care about the show. This could affect their strategy to the point where they keep passing him over and never use him. Maybe JBL ends up as the last remaining Smackdown member, and he's in the ring with HHH. Edge is still left for Raw. The cynical fan would expect JBL to win so that it comes down to a 1 on 1 match with nobody left in the locker room for either side (in the same way that a best of seven series in wrestling would always come down to a seventh match instead of ending after five). But it doesn't have to be booked that way. HHH could pin JBL to win it for Raw, without Edge ever getting in the match. That "realistic" aspect adds to the unpredictability of the scenario.

 

The match has to be unpredictable in order for it to work. There are lots of booking ideas that can be used to do this. Match lengths should vary (like the way a good writer will vary sentence structure) so that by the later stages of the night, nobody has any idea when any given match will end. Maybe the first match is 20 minutes, and the next few are only five. Maybe two guys you wouldn't expect randomly go 30 minutes in the middle of it. Maybe somebody plays iron man and pulls off three or four hard earned wins in a row. Maybe someboy squashes three or four guys in a row. Maybe the winning team doesn't end up using everybody. Maybe there are DQ's and countouts. Maybe there's a double DQ in the middle of the match, and each team has to send out two fresh guys to effectively restart the match. There are lots of possibilities.

 

So, is this a good idea or a terrible one? Is it something the WWE could realistically try to pull off? Or is it best left for fantasy scenarios, where the world class workers of the world like Bret, Steamboat, Flair, Michaels, Owen, Benoit, Eddie, Malenko, Jericho, Hennig, Savage, etc. would be the only one's capable of actually being able to carry it out?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

How about a gimmick match where two guys wrestle to see which one is better?

[humanoid92 0]

I've also thought of a similar scenario that would consist of a series of tag team matches instead of one-on-one matches. Whomever is pinned, submits, disqualified, or counted out is eliminated from the match, but his partner remains, and a new team member replaces the loser.

 

For example, using the same teams from before, we have:

Bret, Owen, Anvil, Bulldog & Dynamite vs. Shawn, HHH, Nash, Hall & Waltman

 

Match #1: Dynamite & Davey Boy vs. Shawn & Waltman

Result: Davey Boy gets pinned and is eliminated. He's replaced by Owen.

 

Match #2: Dynamite & Owen vs. Shawn & Waltman

Result: Waltman gets eliminated. He's replaced by Nash.

 

Match #3: Dynamite & Owen vs. Shawn & Nash

Result: Dynamite gets eliminated. He's replaced by Neidhart.

 

Match #4: Owen & Anvil vs. Shawn & Nash

Result: Nash powerbombs the crap out of Neidhart and eliminates him. Anvil is replaced by the last remaining member, Bret. Meanwhile, the Kliq still has Hall and HHH in the locker room.

 

Match #5: Owen & Bret vs. Shawn & Nash

Result: Nash gets counted out. He's replaced by Hall.

 

Match #6: Owen & Bret vs. Shawn & Razor

Result: Razor submits to the Sharpshooter. He's replaced by the final member of the match, HHH.

 

Match #7: Owen & Bret vs. Shawn & HHH

Result: Make up your own... I put Owen over HHH.

 

You get the point.

 

A tag team match might be better suited for this format. It makes it more unpredictable. There's a 25% chance you can tell who's getting beat here, as opposed to a 50% chance in the one-on-one format. Also, it makes it possible for one guy (in the above scenario, Shawn) to stick around for the entire match, which would be a pretty exciting in-match storyline. And I think it's kind of neat that in each match there's only one new participant, but over time it evolves, and before you know it, it's a completely different tag match. Plus, the tag format might be easier on the workers; the guys that have been in there for awhile can take breathers and get their heads together.

 

What do you think about this scenario? Better or worse than the other one?

[humanoid92 0]

How about a gimmick match where two guys wrestle to see which one is better?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's basically what this is.

 

There are no cages or chambers or cells or ladders or tables.

 

These are straight-up wrestling matches. They just happen to be in the context of a "series" or team format.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Anything that requires that much explaining is too complicated. Make it simple. Say it's an elimination match, but you can't tag out. If you lose, your out, but if you win, you stay on until you get beaten, at which point you go to the back, and a team member takes your place. Continue until one team has all been beaten.

[humanoid92 0]

Anything that requires that much explaining is too complicated. Make it simple. Say it's an elimination match, but you can't tag out. If you lose, your out, but if you win, you stay on until you get beaten, at which point you go to the back, and a team member takes your place. Continue until one team has all been beaten.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Granted, my explanation may have been long-winded, but I just wanted to try to cover all the angles for the sake of completeness.

 

If you put it all down on paper, the explanations for the Elimination Chamber or Royal Rumble or tag team turmoil are probably pretty long. I don't think my idea would be that complicated to explain to audiences. It's actually very straight-forward.

 

I'm just curious about people's opinion on the actual idea. Can a match like that work?

[World's Worst Man 0]

You've just described an elimination series, which has been used in Japan for years. Teams are decided either by drawing lots or with each side setting their teams in secret and revealing them right before the match starts. They're also pointless without factions, so after the RAW vs. Smackdown thing, there's nothing for the WWE to use it with. Promotions that actually have factions and groups should definitely use it though.

[humanoid92 0]

You've just described an elimination series, which has been used in Japan for years. Teams are decided either by drawing lots or with each side setting their teams in secret and revealing them right before the match starts. They're also pointless without factions, so after the RAW vs. Smackdown thing, there's nothing for the WWE to use it with. Promotions that actually have factions and groups should definitely use it though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yikes... I actually had no idea. I've followed wrestling for fifteen years, but I've never gotten into the Japan scene.

 

How many competitors does each team typically use in these matches? And about how long do they go? Have there been scenarios in these matches where some of the members from the winning team never made it into the match?

 

I agree that without factions they are useless. "My" idea partially came about because I was thinking about how to end the Raw/Smackdown split.

[World's Worst Man 0]

You've just described an elimination series, which has been used in Japan for years. Teams are decided either by drawing lots or with each side setting their teams in secret and revealing them right before the match starts. They're also pointless without factions, so after the RAW vs. Smackdown thing, there's nothing for the WWE to use it with. Promotions that actually have factions and groups should definitely use it though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yikes... I actually had no idea. I've followed wrestling for fifteen years, but I've never gotten into the Japan scene.

 

How many competitors does each team typically use in these matches? And about how long do they go? Have there been scenarios in these matches where some of the members from the winning team never made it into the match?

 

I agree that without factions they are useless. "My" idea partially came about because I was thinking about how to end the Raw/Smackdown split.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They're generally 5 vs. 5 matchups (sometimes 4's or even 3's), and the matches usually have 15 minute time limits. There's actually one NOAH show that has 3 seperate 3 vs. 3 elimination series. The 5 vs. 5 matches I've seen usually go about an hour, 4 on 4 45 minutes or so, 3's went about 25-30 minutes. I don't remember if I've seen a match where one wrestler doesn't get the chance to participate. Sometimes they'll do a 15 minute draw or double count-out where both guys get eliminated though.

 

The elimination series really provides the means for some good story-telling, as there's a lot of easy-to-spot story paths they can go down. Usually, the individual matches aren't that good (due to being short), but as a whole the series is usually pretty good. I'd like to see one where the matches have 30 or 45 minute timelimits, so you get more of a "genuine" match.

[humanoid92 0]

It sounds pretty awesome. I can understand the 15 minute time limit to give things a sense of urgency, but I'm with you- it would be cool for one or two of them to go 30 minutes or so. Have they ever done a tag team series like the one I described in my second post?

[Guest Zarock]

It reminds me of the Team Rumble feature on WWF:No Mercy, albeit with just two teams instead of four. I think it could be great as THE feud finisher between two factions, although your scenario is way too fucking long. I'd rather see it go maybe an hour if there's only one or two bad workers of the eight/ten/sixteen/whatever, otherwise I'd keep it at 20-30 minutes.

[cbacon 0]

Didn't they have a mode like this in WWF Attitude of PSX? Stable Matches? Those were fun to play.

[fisticuffs 0]

This is what is used for pick up basketball games. The winner stays up until beaten.

[Just John 0]

It's like "Team Battle" modes in most arcade fighting games. If you win, you get some health back, then go on to fight someone. Could be interesting if done in a wrestling context.

[Slickster 0]

Also, see 'WCW vs. nWo' mode in WCW vs. nWo: World Tour for the Nintendo 64.

[Guest Duke_The_Dog]

WWF RAW for SNEs had this very match feature

[Ravenbomb 0]

Kennel in a Cell from Hell (whatever it was called), but without all the dog-related gimmickery

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Yeah, I was going to say...you can play the very match the original poster laid out in Fire Pro D for Dreamcast (and other Fire Pro Wrestling games). Only thing is you have to pick your team's order before the match starts, but basically the same concept.

 

I think WWE could pull something like that off. The only downside is that other than the RAW vs Smackdwon story currently going, they don't really have any factions to use for it right now. Maybe if they brought Evolution back or something.

 

TNA could do it too...maybe something like:

 

Jeff Jarrett/Chris Harris/James Storm/Petey Williams/Abyss

vs

Christian/Andy Douglas/Chase Stevens/AJ Styles/Monty Brown

 

OK, maybe wouldn't be a dream match like the one the original poster laid out, but I think it could be decent. Would be good if they did a special episode of Impact devoted just to this match, to build towrards a PPV. Obviously, could work with the X Division, too.