The OAO Raw Thread - Dec/5th/05

[justcoz 0]

HBK then cuts a promo about how you need to have attitude in the ring - but you also have to be able to back that attitude up. In the end it doesn't matter if Shelton has attitude or not because HBK saw today that Shelton's a loser either way.

Pointing out the legit weaknesses of a babyface is a terrrible idea. The people already think Shelton is a loser. They don't need that confirmed.

 

I think even the casual fans realize that Shelton was beating HHH and holding the IC championship and is now losing most of his matches. There is nothing wrong with bringing that into a storyline where someone like HBK is trying to motiviate him into getting his intensity back. Just as long as it doesn't turn into one of those 'losing streak' angles that never go anywhere. I'm feeling this is leading to a heel turn more than anything.

[Guest Shark]

MNM pretty much made the same comment about Hawk a few months ago during a promo against Animal.

 

Precisely. And Matt Hardy said he'd be happy if Edge died in a car accident. It only seems to generate controversy when Edge says something.

 

And he is the most over heel (wrestler) on Raw. Angle gets cheered and Triple H gets a wildly varied reaction. Edge and Bischoff got the most heel heat tonight as they do when they're on. So saying Edge "doesn't get the reactions" is ridiculous and in blatant disregard of the facts.

 

As for the guy who said Edge and Lita aren't together - I'm yet to see the proof that they aren't. The "news" sites report what Matt Hardy said once a few months ago as truth and Matt Hardy has lied about the situation more times than Jeff Hardy has taken a risky bump. Edge's wife seemed to think they were together, no-one's come up with anything that suggests they aren't so they might very well be still together

[Dangerous A 0]

Raw was not as terrible as it has been in recent weeks and had some funny moments to it. Good for them they don't have a ppv for the Raw brand until January and they can afford to do a throwaway show like this. I say throwaway because I could give a rats ass if Bischoff gets fired or not and could give a rats ass who replaces him in the archaic role of GM, which surely needs to die.

 

The Angle/Carlito vs HBK/Shelton match was going along fine EXCEPT the finish. Can they make Shelton look like more of a jobber by having him get pinned by him missing a flying cross body? I'm also of the belief that Carlito not using or having a finisher must be a rib or something. I put the blame on management and creative for Carlito not having and using a finisher, not Carlito. Carlito has little to no say on finishes. Therefore, creative gets the blame. I refuse to believe Carlito cannot execute a finisher.

 

The court skits were mindless fun. The less said about them, the better. If I wanted to, I could get all nit picky and tear the skits down, but they actually brought a smile to my face in some spots, so I won't. Although, since I work in a law office, I'll say it's funny that Vince said Masters perjured himself on the stand because of his last name when not one of the witnesses was sworn in. There, I had to get that one out.

 

Surprising lack of heat for Chavo. There were some spots where they chanted for Eddie and there was one Chavo chant, but that match was wrestled in damn near silence. Kind of sad.

 

Maria was great in the courtroom skit, as was Foley, who was gold busting out moon pies and RC Cola. The Boogeyman segment was funny because of the reactions to him, not for the Boogeyman himself.

 

Was I the only one disturbed by Stephanie's testimony of "Eric Bischoff impersonated my father and then violated me"? You can draw your own conclusions to that one.

 

Speaking of Steph, that was an awkward moment with Vince introducing Steph to HHH bit. I just didn't know what to make of that. I get that they were playing off ex husband and wife awkwardness and such, I just don't know where they are going with it. Forgot where I read this, but wrestling is best when it has simple storylines with subtle complexities. An example of this would be Shelton and HBK. Assuming it's going to be a Shelton heel turn, it's being done well. They are slowly getting there and you can see little things building to get there and hopefully there will be a grand payoff. With the Steph-HHH bit, where is it going? Are they going to forget they are married in real life. Are they forgetting that they were married at all? Did Vince forget he headlined a ppv 6 years ago against HHH for Stephanie's honor? Are we going to get a McMahon/Helmsley II regime? (God, I hope not) Instead, they just stared at each other awkwardly and then the segment ended.

 

Again, the show itself wasn't bad. The wrestling wasn't very good, but since they aren't in full NYR hype mode, they doled out some good comedy. Some intentional, some not intentional. All in all, a very entertaining show, just not an entertaining wrestling show.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Surprising lack of heat for Chavo. There were some spots where they chanted for Eddie and there was one Chavo chant, but that match was wrestled in damn near silence. Kind of sad.

 

I'll never comprehend how chanting a dead guy's name is comparable to rooting on the guy in the ring. If I was Chavo, I think that I'd prefer to NOT have my uncle's name chanted while I was in the ring.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Hopefully Eddy is in heaven right now with Art Barr and they're laughing at Chavo's terrible, terrible frogsplash.

[Dangerous A 0]

Hopefully Eddy is in heaven right now with Art Barr and they're laughing at Chavo's terrible, terrible frogsplash.

 

 

My God was it bad. I heard on a recent OVW TV that CM Punk did the frog splash in a match as a tribute to Eddy and it was actually worse than Chavo's, believe it or not.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

So does RVD get a finisher change when he returns cause Chavo is using the frogsplash in Eddy's memory?

[Fökai 0]

You can tell that Chavo's so hesitant to hit it full-tilt, risking injury to himself or the opponent, that he's dragging his foot when he's coming down. It's strange to see an older wrestler like him not know how to hit a move properly, especially one that his uncle has used for a decade.

 

That said, his version will continue to suck until he learns to come down on his upper-body.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I wish Chavo would use the brainbuster he was using for a while as his finisher. He could still bust out the frog splash once in a while, but it shouldn't be his finisher, especially once RVD comes back, because Van Dam's five star is probably the best frog splash in wrestling. Especially when he hits it on a chair and then does the whole "rolling around, clutching his chest in pain" bit on the mat to sell it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I kinda like it in a Terry-Funk-Moonsault kinda way.

[Guest Zarock]

* The court shit was completely unnessacary, as they could have just used the beginning and ending with roughly the same result

 

* The four way match was basically there to put over Kane/Big Show as the most powerful tag-team ever, and it did that well, I think

 

*God I hate divas matches. It's like the opposite of the Smackdown Six: The same six girls going at it in sucky singles/tag matches.

 

*The Cutting Edge segment was just goddamn awful. Is Edge's new gimmick saying horrible shit like "Where's your pal, Terry Gordy?....oh right, he's DEAD!"

 

*Chavo/Cade was ghey.

 

*The tag match was alright in that everybody pretty played their parts great. The finish was lame, because I think having Benjamin blind tag HBK and then WIN would've been better. Actually, most matches could be made better with Shelton going over.

 

btw, Carlito DOES have a finisher (An extremely lame looking neckbreaker type thing), and he HAS used it (on Heat against a jobber), so it would've been plausible to have Carlito execute it instead of small packaging him.

[hyperchord24 0]

btw, Carlito DOES have a finisher (An extremely lame looking neckbreaker type thing), and he HAS used it (on Heat against a jobber), so it would've been plausible to have Carlito execute it instead of small packaging him.

It's either a rib backstage, as dangerous a suggested, or it's an effort by creative to put him over as a heel who cheats to win, not by wrestling.

[justcoz 0]

* The court shit was completely unnessacary, as they could have just used the beginning and ending with roughly the same result

 

* The four way match was basically there to put over Kane/Big Show as the most powerful tag-team ever, and it did that well, I think

 

*God I hate divas matches. It's like the opposite of the Smackdown Six: The same six girls going at it in sucky singles/tag matches.

 

*The Cutting Edge segment was just goddamn awful. Is Edge's new gimmick saying horrible shit like "Where's your pal, Terry Gordy?....oh right, he's DEAD!"

 

*Chavo/Cade was ghey.

 

*The tag match was alright in that everybody pretty played their parts great. The finish was lame, because I think having Benjamin blind tag HBK and then WIN would've been better. Actually, most matches could be made better with Shelton going over.

 

btw, Carlito DOES have a finisher (An extremely lame looking neckbreaker type thing), and he HAS used it (on Heat against a jobber), so it would've been plausible to have Carlito execute it instead of small packaging him.

 

 

How exactly can a match be gay or ghey?

 

The court segment was dragged out to be funny. Some people thought it was. Others didn't. I personally found it more entertaining than most of the stuff on WWE television lately. It was silly but it was silly done right as opposed to the JR colonoscopy. I wanted to hate it because I watch WWE programming lately iwith that state of mind, I want them to annoy and piss me off, I expect it. I laughed at those segments though and I felt it was as good as the TNA 3-D funeral.

 

I think Edge's gimmick is to be a loose cannon ala Pillman and say things he isn't supposed to say. Things the office wouldn't want him to say. Such as calling Slaughter and Hayes Vince's yes-men, mocking Ric Flair and making the Terry Gordy reference. I found nothing wrong with the remark. It's not like Terry Gordy died two weeks ago. He was coming across as desperate for saying it in retaliation towards Hayes getting the best on the mic and saying he wasn't a main eventer and never sold out an arena. I thought it was an excellent promo, I loved the segment.

[Dangerous A 0]

I thought the Edge segment was great as well, but I wanted him to go further and make Hayes and/or Sarge bleed.

 

It's weird in that I wasn't mad or offended that they brought up Gordy. I was numb to it. The exploitation of Eddie on last Tuesday's SD Special was way, way worse, so that numbed me up to this. WWE using death to further angles is now par for the course. How sad is that?

[benoit4hor 0]

The Rated "R" superstar could be a good gimmick.

 

Edge is already pretty good at sounding unscripted.

[The Mandarin 0]

I found nothing wrong with the remark.

 

That's the problem. It was hardly "cutting edge". The whole segment was Edge, Lita and Dok Hendrix doing a bad job of commenting on real-life situations.

 

If Edge is supposed to be a Rated R Superstar, why doesn't he drop F-Bombs on WWE TV? They can censor it, but the effect will still be made on the crowd.

[chaosrage 0]

* The court shit was completely unnessacary, as they could have just used the beginning and ending with roughly the same result

 

And we say WWE writers are bad... The point of doing something like that isn't to have a result, it's to be entertaining. I'm sure Vince could have just came out and said "Eric is fired, ok bye" and it would have had the same result. But that would have sucked. I thought the court stuff was funny. Coach being Eric's defense attorney, Foley coming out with a batman lunchbox, Maria asking for socko, Maria being smart, the Boogeyman (it's so fucking silly and stupid, how can you not laugh), Vince's reaction to the boogeyman, Foley's reaction which was to shove food in his mouth, Vince yelling at Eric to shut up when he was trying to respond to Stephanie, Vince listening to Ashlee Simpson on his ipod, etc.. Whether you thought it was funny or not, you have at least give them credit for trying something different instead of just having a bland format of match, match, promo, match, promo, etc.. like they've been doing on TNN for years.

 

*Chavo/Cade was ghey.

 

That wasn't ghey. This comment was ghey.

"*God I hate divas matches. It's like the opposite of the Smackdown Six: The same six girls going at it in sucky singles/tag matches."

 

Critiquing wrestling in DIVA matches. That's a good one.

 

*The tag match was alright in that everybody pretty played their parts great. The finish was lame, because I think having Benjamin blind tag HBK and then WIN would've been better. Actually, most matches could be made better with Shelton going over.

 

So the finish was lame because it started an angle that may give Shelton some personality and make people care about him instead of giving him the win in some meaningless tag match.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think it's quite the opposite with Edge. He sounds very scripted, to me.

 

The problem with Edge being "censored" is that if they really didn't like what he was saying, they'd cut to a commercial. So clearly he's not being censored. They need to explain that some how for it to work. Maybe Edge pays off the production people? Maybe he's good friends with Kevin Dunn. They could do one segment with Edge and Kevin Dunn with Edge explaining who Kevin Dunn is, and explains that Kevin Dunn loves controversy, and that Dunn allows for Edge to get away with saying stuff that the locker room or "the office" doesn't want to hear.

[haVoc 0]

I heard on a recent OVW TV that CM Punk did the frog splash in a match as a tribute to Eddy and it was actually worse than Chavo's

 

See, he can't work.

[Dangerous A 0]

Rudo, that doesn't work because it requires more than 5 seconds of thought and we all know Creative doesn't do that.

[benoit4hor 0]

I think it's quite the opposite with Edge. He sounds very scripted, to me.

 

I guess it depends on the situation. When he's telling Matt Hardy to go back to the indies he sounds unscripted. When he's making fun of JBL he sounds unscripted. When he's getting owned by Hayes and resorts to something lame like Terry Gordy it sounds scripted.

[The Mandarin 0]

Rudo, that doesn't work because it requires more than 5 seconds of thought and we all know Creative doesn't do that.

 

Creative were the brains behind such fantastic things as Maria giving a well-prepared statement and the always charismatic Tajiri using an interpretator to make hi-larious comments.

 

However, they had nothing for Christian.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Edge: This is the show THEY don't want you to see!

 

Fan: So why are we seeing it?

 

Seriously, it's not the grand canyon of logic.

 

Either have him censored whenever he's about to say something on TV, have him go on-line and say this shit on his website (conveniently referenced (or hacked) though WWE.com), say he has photos of some top brass, or SOMETHING to explain why he's out there and is not being censored. Him just saying shit and then going on about how its taboo doesn't make it controversial. We know they are allowing it, so how about helping us believe they aren't?

[Foshi 0]

I wish Chavo would use the brainbuster he was using for a while as his finisher. He could still bust out the frog splash once in a while, but it shouldn't be his finisher, especially once RVD comes back, because Van Dam's five star is probably the best frog splash in wrestling. Especially when he hits it on a chair and then does the whole "rolling around, clutching his chest in pain" bit on the mat to sell it.

 

Chavo actually used the Gory Bomb on heat in his match against Conway. I wish he'd just stick with that. Kind of stupid that Coach and Grisham reacted like they'd never seen the move before. Well, obviously someone has considering it's his finisher in SVR 2006.

[humongous2002 0]

The Edge segment was great IMO but everything else was pure crap.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Raw was pre-empted for about 40 minutes last night, and coupled with a 14 hour day of work today, I waited to post until tonight....in this very thread.

 

Ramblings:

 

*Most of the court stuff was forgettable, if not briefly entertaining.

 

* My MSN name is currently "SHUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTT UP! I mean, um, overruled". A buddy of mine has the Ashlee Simpson line.

 

*The Edge segment was pretty good, Hayes stole the show IMO. As an Edgehead, I'm a little less than impressed by his credibility: It takes an eye rake from his 5 ft girlfriend to beat up to 60 year old 250 pounders, no disrepsect intended.

 

*Hayes' promo was absolute money.

 

*If they're exploiting Flair's legal trouble, doesn't that kinda push the HHH-Big Show thing to the back burner?

[SuperJerk 0]

I'm listening to this episode again while I'm working, and its actually not that bad.

[SuperJerk 0]

I'm listening to this episode again while I'm working, and its actually not that bad.

Okay...the Edge/Lita/Michael Hayes segment really comes off like a couple of obnoxious high school kids arguing with their teacher over being sent to the principal's office.

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

Hayes cuts a good promo though. I wish they gave him more mic time

[Ultra Violence 0]

If Edge is supposed to be a Rated R Superstar, why doesn't he drop F-Bombs on WWE TV? They can censor it, but the effect will still be made on the crowd.

 

 

During the fake Hardy shoot fued where Hardy kept randomly attacking him he said fuck on several occasions.