The verses thread

[theintensifier 0]

That's the only reason why Juggernaut wouldn't / couldn't win. But if he was as popular as the Hulk, it'd be a cake walk for him.

[SuperJerk 0]

Those types of things would slow Juggernaut down.

 

I do see the fight winding up similar to Superman's fights with Doomsday, with the two of them beating the hell out of each other.

 

Please don't use the Superman/Doomsday fights as a template for anything, because the issue where Superman died fighting him (Superman #75) was written by a hack writer with no imagination when it came to using Superman's arsenal of powers. Except for one panel, the entire fight consisted of the two punching each other really hard.

 

Even if Juggernaut was stronger than Superman, Superman would still win because he has other powers besides superhuman strength he could fall back on. For example, he could use his heat vision to melt Juggernaut's brain through his eyes. Or he could use his superspeed to dodge every one of Juggernaut's punches. Or he could use his flight to carry Juggernaut into space and throw him into the sun.

[theintensifier 0]

The sun can't kill Juggernaut. And Superman can't survive in space without oxygen, Juggernaut can.

[theintensifier 0]

The sun can't kill Juggernaut. And Superman can't survive in space without oxygen, Juggernaut can.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

For example, he could use his heat vision to melt Juggernaut's brain through his eyes.

 

Through Juggernaut's magical forcefield?

 

Even though, as theintensifier pointed out, Juggernaut is capable of withstanding the heat of the sun? Is Superman's heat vision really capable of generating temperatures far greater then the heat of the sun? Cuz it'd have to be. And he'd also have to hope that Juggs didn't close/cover his eyes.

 

Or he could use his superspeed to dodge every one of Juggernaut's punches.

 

That doesn't stop Juggernaut, it just keeps Superman from getting killed.

 

My theory on the fight is this: Juggernaut only has one weakness, and Superman *cannot* exploit it, because Superman doesn't have psionic powers. It has, however, been demonstrated that Superman can be killed by someone strong enough - and I think Juggs is strong enough.

 

I mean, sure, Supes would probably just give Martian Manhunter a call and Juggs would be totally fucked, but in a one-on-one, I don't think Superman could beat him.

Edited December 26, 2005 by The Metal Maniac

[theintensifier 0]

I don't know how else to explain it, but Juggernaut would wipe the floor with Superman. It'd be like Doomsday all over again.

 

Speaking of Doomsday, what would the outcome be if Juggernaut encountered Doomsday ?

[Special K 0]

Doomsday's a bit cheesy. While Juggernaut is extremely hard to hurt, Doomsday ressurects himself, stronger every time. So Juggernaut would kill Doomsday as many times as necessary to make Doomsday strong enough to kill him. Pretty much happens with everyone you could pit against Doomsday.

[theintensifier 0]

I don't know about that. The ONLY thing that can stop, or hurt Juggernaut is psionic attacks. Doomsday couldn't tie his own boots if his life depended on it.

 

I've always been a mark for:

 

 

I want to see him face Superman. I think Superman would get his ass handed to him, again. Who knows.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

But since Doomsday always comes back better then before, is it not possible that, in repeated encounters with Juggernaut, he would eventually gain at least a bit of psionic powers in order to defeat him?

 

Cuz that's his thing, isn't it? Coming back so that the last thing that killed him can't anymore? I mean, it is kinda reaching, but it sorta makes sense.

[theintensifier 0]

To a certain extent, yes. But, I haven't heard of, or don't know of Doomsday gaining new powers from dying. It's possible.

[Guest Beingz0wningj00]

Gladiator is da shit and would wipe the freaking floor with Supes....

 

 

 

 

As for Juggernaut... that's a real case of irresistable force vs. immovable object

[SuperJerk 0]

Or he could use his superspeed to dodge every one of Juggernaut's punches.

 

That doesn't stop Juggernaut, it just keeps Superman from getting killed.

It DOES stop Juggernaut from beating him. Therefore, Juggernaut cannot beat Superman.

 

 

You'll have to excuse me for being repetitive, but it seems as though most of you are missing some really obvious points...

 

There's more to fighting than punching, which is the only thing that Juggernaut can do to Superman. Except he can't, because Superman can dodge his punches at superspeed.

 

Superman CAN beat Juggernaut because Juggernaut's power is not infinite, and therefore would not survive being thrown into the sun by Superman (who can hold his breath in outer space). He is also not very smart, so Superman could easily trick him into some sort of trap.

 

Juggernaut has no way of beating Superman. Superman has about 10 ways he could beat Juggernaut.

 

The clostest real-world example I can think of to illustrate what I'm talking about would be having a tank battle an F-16. Of course the F-16 would win. Its faster and has a better arsenal. Sure, the tank MIGHT be able to get a lucky shot in, but the chances of that happening are pretty low.

[ZGangsta 0]

I just think it's pointless arguing this because anyone who thinks that a scrub Magneto lacky like Juggernaut could beat fucking SUPERMAN is clearly delusional, so just move on.

[Justice 0]

Wow. Scrub villian? I'd argue he's a damn big villian, no pun intended. But that's just me. As it seems, I'd say that I agree with Jerk that Superman has a few more ways to beat him, but I do have to say that Jugs could hang with him far longer than you guys are giving him credit for. Let's just back off the insults, there, eh? We're talking about comic book characters.

 

And on Bats vs. Spidey: Bats would still win a majority of times, in my honest opinion. Bats is the tactical genius of DC. He beaten people he really had no right to beat (See: Azra-bat during Knightfall) through tactics. While Spidey is smart and has the Spider Sense, it he still can be beaten. Maybe simple attacks that are directly made at him won't touch him, but I'm fairly sure that Bats could trap him, probably involving a gas of some sort (He tends to use those a bunch). Spidey just doesn't seem to be on the same level when it comes to tactical thought, and to me, that's what it'll really come down to.

[Special K 0]

Yeah, whether you like Juggernaut or not, and whether he's a big name or not shouldn't really have a bearing. I think Lobo's a completely shit character, but he still should've beat Wolverine. Darkseid is a superior character to Thanos in every way, but Thanos with the gauntlet still would own him with a thought. This has nothing to do with which character is more entertaining.

 

Spidey's a lot more clever tactically than he used to be, and things like gas will still be picked up by his spider-senses. It's not like Daredevil's radar, he senses when he's in danger, and has become very good wih it.

[Justice 0]

Point taken. My brother and I brought this up in a debate a while ago, and I defended a lot on Spidey. He's very close to the ideal superhero in term of Superpowers to beat Batman at his own game. I just feel, though, that Batman's genius focused towards battle, while Parker's is enough towards Science that Wayne would have a sizable advantage.

 

In any case, that's a cross-over battle that I'd LOVE to see.

 

And, looking at crossover battles, I thought the funniest one was Robin vs. Jubilee. The only way Robin could lose that was if he were charged with protecting a microwave.

 

Edit: Another interesting battle.

 

Green Arrow vs. Kraven the Hunter.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Justice

[theintensifier 0]

Again, Juggernaut would not die from exposure to the sun, nor would his powers ever vanish or lower, UNLESS, by a psionic attack. You make a good point by Superman's speed. But knowing Superman, he's not a hit and run type of hero. He'll stand there and slug it out like he did against the Hulk (who should have won, but because of politics, didn't). And that's when he'd die.

 

Kraven would win if he had the element of suprise. I don't know who'd take it if it were a face off.

[ZGangsta 0]

I just think it's pointless arguing this because anyone who thinks that a scrub Magneto lacky like Juggernaut could beat fucking SUPERMAN is clearly delusional, so just move on.

Wow. Scrub villian? I'd argue he's a damn big villian, no pun intended. But that's just me. As it seems, I'd say that I agree with Jerk that Superman has a few more ways to beat him, but I do have to say that Jugs could hang with him far longer than you guys are giving him credit for. Let's just back off the insults, there, eh? We're talking about comic book characters.

Yeah, I thought the fact that we're talking about comic book characters should have made that comment seem tongue-in-cheek. Oh, and for the record, I don't actually think Juggernaut is a 'Scrub Magneto Lacky' I just thought it sounded funny.

 

As for Bats v Spiderman, discarding the 'Batman beats anyone' rule, this would be the most interesting battle. Even when you take 'politics' and popularity into account I don't know who would win.

 

Kraven would win if he had the element of suprise. I don't know who'd take it if it were a face off.

Kraven could only win if he didn't pussy out and kill himself first.

[theintensifier 0]

Good point about Kraven.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Except he can't, because Superman can dodge his punches at superspeed.

 

Then why does Superman ever get punched in comic books? Couldn't he just dodge everything, all the time? I still think that, in combat, Superman would realize that dodging around was not slowing Juggernaut's pace, so he'd step up and take a few on the chin, hoping to actually win in the process.

 

Juggernaut has no way of beating Superman.

 

Except beating him to death. The exact same way that Superman died last time.

 

Superman has about 10 ways he could beat Juggernaut.

 

Name them, because honestly, I can't think of that many. Maybe I'm just not very imaginative, but so far I've got "Throw him into the sun/space" which I'll grant, even though some sources say that wouldn't really kill him. But gimme some more and I'll leave it alone.

 

Superman (who can hold his breath in outer space).

 

I could be wrong, but this statement seems (to me, anyway) like you're implying that Juggs can't; if that is the case, I just wanted to point out that Jugernaut doesn't *need* to hold his breath. He needs neither food, water, nor oxygen to survive.

 

Anyway, Spider-Man/Batman: I think that, assuming Batman has time to prepare, he could probably whip up something that would counter-act Spidey's webing; some sort of chemical that dissolved it instantly, or something. I think in that case, Spidey would be in big trouble, but it might still be kinda iffy on account of his Spider-Sense and super-strength; Bats might have to use some sort of gas to get a win, cuz I dunno if he could effectively fight someone who's that much stronger and faster then he is, and can also tell when Batman is going to throw a punch, even if he's not looking at him.

[Special K 0]

Monkey Vs. Robot!

[SuperJerk 0]

Come on guys, this is fucking Juggernaut. Dazzler once took him on.

 

Except he can't, because Superman can dodge his punches at superspeed.

 

Then why does Superman ever get punched in comic books?

 

Because some writers are stupid and some villians can either surprise Superman or move at superhuman speed (Juggernaunt can do neither).

 

Superman has about 10 ways he could beat Juggernaut.

 

Name them, because honestly, I can't think of that many. Maybe I'm just not very imaginative, but so far I've got "Throw him into the sun/space" which I'll grant, even though some sources say that wouldn't really kill him. But gimme some more and I'll leave it alone.

 

1. Throw Jugernaut into the sun.

2. Suffocate him by creating a vacuum around him at superspeed.

3. Burn through his eyes with heat vision and blow up his brain.

4. Fly at him at superspeed.

5. Drop him in the Artic and freeze him in 1000 tons of ice using a combination of the natural environment and ice breath.

6. Burn through his skin with his heat vision, incapacitating Juggernaut long enough to punch him senseless and dispose of the body.

7. Knock him unconscious with repeated sonic booms from travelling at superspeed.

8. Strand him on the moon until he suffocates.

9. Drill a hole to the center of the Earth at superspeed and trick Juggernaut into stepping into it.

10. Zap him into the Phantom Zone.

 

Superman (who can hold his breath in outer space).

 

I could be wrong, but this statement seems (to me, anyway) like you're implying that Juggs can't

 

No, I was implying that Superman can fly into space, which Juggernaut cannot. How is Juggernaut holding his breath going to keep him from being vaporized by the sun????

[ZGangsta 0]

No dood~! Teh JUGGERNAUT iz teh bestest comicz charcatr of ALL TIMEZ!!1! He can ezily beats teh sooperman~!

 

So anyways, I was rereading DC vs Marvel from the 90s today (fyi Superman knocks down Juggernaut with 1 punch. Er, but then you don't see what happen to him after that) and man did it suck. It has like the lamest possible storyline. The dialog sucks. Like none of the characters actually act like themselves, more like lame stereotypes of themselves. And NOTHING HAPPENS. The 'big fights' are all the exact same thing:

"I don't want to fight you"

"Me neither but the fate of my universe depends on it"

"I know, in another situation we could be allies"

2 shitty panels of fighting

victor: "I take no pleasure in this victory. I wish we could have been friends"

Except Jubilee/Robin, but that was even lamer.

And who the fuck voted for Storm to beat frikin' Wonder Woman?

Oh yeah, and the first page of the series of course opens with Ben Fucking Riley, which reminded me that the Clone Saga was going on and put me in a bad mood for the rest of the day. Damn clone saga.

 

Monkey Vs. Robot!

Pssh, easily monkey, do I need to even explain why?

[theintensifier 0]

I don't know if my posts are invisible, or if you just don't believe what I am saying.

 

Mr. Jerk, Juggernaut doesn't need to breathe, and the SUN cannot kill him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol.

[Justice 0]

1. Throw Jugernaut into the sun. Wouldn't kill, though I guess you could count it as a victory.

2. Suffocate him by creating a vacuum around him at superspeed. No air required.

3. Burn through his eyes with heat vision and blow up his brain. If he can stand heat greater than the sun, I don't think heat vision would work on him.

4. Fly at him at superspeed. Certainly would knock the wind out of him.

5. Drop him in the Artic and freeze him in 1000 tons of ice using a combination of the natural environment and ice breath. Immune to physical conditions.

6. Burn through his skin with his heat vision, incapacitating Juggernaut long enough to punch him senseless and dispose of the body. Again, immune to heat greater than the sun.

7. Knock him unconscious with repeated sonic booms from travelling at superspeed. Actually, that might work. I dunno, but an interesting tactic.

8. Strand him on the moon until he suffocates. No air required.

9. Drill a hole to the center of the Earth at superspeed and trick Juggernaut into stepping into it. o.0 He's dumb, but that's stretching it.

10. Zap him into the Phantom Zone. I didn't know he could do that at will, but I suppose it's possible.

 

In the interest of fairness, I bolded the responses that have been given in this thread.

[Zorin Industries 0]

 

vs

 

[theintensifier 0]

Isn't Black Adam Marvel's carbon copy of DC's Captain Marvel ? If yes, he'd wipe the floor with Gaymor.

[Special K 0]

No, he's basically an evil Captain Marvel. He's DC.

 

That said, I'm not too up on these characters, but they're probably about equally strong, with Namor having his water weakness (must be in water every so often or he gets sick) and Black Adam being really freaking fast. So yeah, BA whoops him.

 

 

How about Supes versus Doom? Supes probably has the advantage with super-speed, but Doom DOES have magic. And is really freaking smart.

 

 

 

The way Supes is written is so inconsistent. During Hush he laid a beating on Bats, completely under the control of Poison Ivy, but Bats managed to delay him for quite a while. Same thing happened recently in Sacrifice, he was fighting Bats like he thought he was Mongul.

If an out of control Superman punched Batman once, he should be dead.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

No, I was implying that Superman can fly into space, which Juggernaut cannot. How is Juggernaut holding his breath going to keep him from being vaporized by the sun????

 

Justice beat me to the list, but I just wanted to ask how it is possible that you noticed and read one part of a sentence, (and I know you did, because you quoted and responded to it) yet somehow totally ignored the second part, where I said in plain english that Juggernaut doesn't need oxygen to live, then created a list of ways to "defeat" Juggernaut, where SUFFOCATION is *two* of them. I'll re-state it, just for the record: Juggernaut is kept alive by the magic of Cyttorak (did I spell that right?) and does not need food, water, or oxygen to survive.

 

And I already said that heat vision through the eyes probably wouldn't work, due to his force field, his physical resistance to virtually everything, (including temperatures as hot as the sun)and the fact that he could cover his eyes with his hand (which, if I'm not mistaken, would probably have some of his armour of in; you know, his magic armour that's nigh-indestructible?)

 

And as far as flying at him goes (I know that I *said* that Justice had already covered this, but I'm just filling in some holes) I would think that, assuming Juggernaut was moving towards Supes at the time (and why wouldn't he be? He knows he's unstoppable), that would be more likely to knock the air out of Superman, since Juggernaut cannot be stopped, only slowed. And laws of physics tell us that when two things hit, and one of them cannot be stopped, it's the other one that gets fucked.

 

Anyway, I think it's clear by now that a concensus canot be reached and we're just going around in circles? Agree to disagree?

 

Dr. Doom/Superman: I think this one would depend on the circumstances surrounding the fight. Like, if the two of them just bumped into each other on the street and said "Let's fight!" I'd give it to Superman; but, if Dr. Doom had time to observe Superman and prepare a good game plan, he might be able to get the drop on him with a bit of magic and turn the tide. Hell, he's apparantly capable of switching minds with another person; imagine the shit he'd cause if he traded minds with Superman. Unless he got a fair bit of luck in there though, I'd say Superman.

Edited December 29, 2005 by The Metal Maniac

[ZGangsta 0]

And as far as flying at him goes (I know that I *said* that Justice had already covered this, but I'm just filling in some holes) I would think that, assuming Juggernaut was moving towards Supes at the time (and why wouldn't he be? He knows he's unstoppable), that would be more likely to knock the air out of Superman, since Juggernaut cannot be stopped, only slowed. And laws of physics tell us that when two things hit, and one of them cannot be stopped, it's the other one that gets fucked.

Yeah, but I think you have to take physics out of it when one of the guys powers is that he specifically breaks Newton's 2nd law through magic.

 

Oh and could Superman just rip his gay little gem out of him like Onsluaght did?