Super Bowl XL

[dh86 0]

I don't know if you understand this, but there were calls going the other way too.

 

do give examples

I don't need to answer to you when there already are examples in this thread. If you ignore them, then nothing I tell you is going to be different.

 

so i'll take that as a no

[Guest]

Take it as a no, there already are examples. There's holding on every play in football, don't act like there isn't. All sorts of little tricks to avoid being called, I guess Locklear didn't know that many.

 

If you grab a guy in the chest area of his jersey, it's nearly impossible to get called, no matter how blatant it is.

[Fökai 0]

What's overlooked in the Locklear play is the Steeler LB or DE jumped offsides.

 

No, he didn't. I have the game on my computer, and while Haggans is running, the ball is still hiked before he crosses the football. Even a split-second more, and he would've been offsides.

[justcoz 0]

Ive only read of one person having the opinion that the referees were absolutely perfect. Even the televised talking heads mentioned the bad calls quite often.

 

The only thing as sad as the conspiracy theories is acting like there were zero mistakes by the officials.

 

Yes, there were some horrible calls in that game....but the fact is that, after all these bad calls, Seattle was only down 14-10 at the start of the 4th quarter and had a whole 15 minutes to score just once to take the lead, but they played like shit and got nothing. Seattle lost that game, no one else lost it for them.

 

I don't disagree with you, but the phantom hold that took back a play that would have got the ball at the Pittsburgh 2 happened in the 4th quarter if I remember correctly. Hasselbeck promptly threw a pick a couple of plays later on 3rd and long. If Seattle scores and goes up 17-14, or even kicks a field goal it's a one possession game. In any case, Seattle didn't deserve to win, but then again neither did Pittsburgh.

 

Pittsburgh deserved to win because they successfully made the big plays that win football games. They showed more character. Seattle had some bad breaks (although overexaggerated by some here) but if they made the two field goals, caught passes in bounds, didn't drop passes, managed the clock better and had better play calling, they could've won too. They didn't. Pittsburgh didn't let opportunities escape them despite a sub par performance overall.

 

its hard to let opportunities escape when u are handed a 21 pt swing and ya opponent had 161 yards taking away in penalties and callbacks

 

Wow. Let me ask you this. If Pittsburgh overcame bad officiating in Indy to win, why couldn't Seattle??? My answer. Pittsburgh played their best football against Indy and Seattle didn't play their best against Pittsburgh. This is the reason they lost the game.

 

How many times does someone have to call attention to the missed field goals, dropped passes, no running game, routine punts into the endzone when they could have pinned a struggling Steelers offense deep in their own territory and just overall terrible coaching and clock management?

 

The Steelers didn't play great football but those big plays that the offense executed won the game and their defense didn't blow big plays like the Parker run and the Randel El - Ward reverse.

 

And where are you coming up with Pittsburgh being handed 21 points? 14 of those 21 Pittsburgh points were because Seattle's defense dropped the ball on coverages, had nothing to do with officiating. A 75 yard running play that had they watched the tapes they would have seen Parker break against Cleveland I believe. A reverse pass using Randel El with Hines off to himself that they pretty much ran fairly similar in the Cinci playoff game. And Cowher would have likely went for the seven on the fourth and inches whether the Ben TD was called back or not so that likely would have been another a TD.

 

I would have preferred a Steeler victory where there were no blown calls and no excuses. The NFL has a problem with their officiating and it needs to be addressed and taken care of, no argument from me there. Turning a blind eye to what really cost Seattle this game will get an argument from me.

 

the OPI on Jackson=7 pts

holding on Locklear=possible 7pts

Roethlisberger TD=7 pts

and im not even mentioning the horse collar..the 15 yd penalty on Hasselbeck for 'blocking' that set up the Randle El pass..the horrible spot on the Mack Strong run...the 34 yard punt return called back, etc every single questionable call went against Seattle..if it were just bad refs...there woulda been bad calls both ways..this deserves federal investigation..seriously....I remember listening to Jay and Michelle on 97.1 last week and a brother of a ref said that the NFL wanted the Steelers to win...they hung up on him..he doesnt look so crazy today

 

 

the OPI on Jackson=7 pts: the right call, he pushed him off

 

holding on Locklear=possible 7pts: possible being the key word, could have easily been three

 

Roethlisberger TD=7 pts: and had the call been reversed, it would have either been 3 points or a fairly easy QB sneak or Bettis push over the goal line for 7

 

the 15 yd penalty on Hasselbeck for 'blocking' that set up the Randle El pass: The interception set up the Randle El pass, the block gave them better field position but so would 15 yds accumulated with some run or passing plays. not to mention that Hines was open by about ten yards.

 

I remember listening to Jay and Michelle on 97.1 last week and a brother of a ref said that the NFL wanted the Steelers to win...they hung up on him..he doesnt look so crazy today: Yes, the league officials made sure that Josh Brown couldn't make two field goal attempts, Shaun Alexander's presence amounted to nothing (i was shocked to see he had 95 yds total rushing), four punts went for touchbacks, big pass plays were dropped and the Hawks couldn't get their offensive play calling together to get some additional points at the end of the first half or at the end of the 4th quarter.

 

Jackson did not push off...yes he placed his hands on the guy but they were touching each other the whole route...the corner didnt budge and it was a ticky tack call at best and no way Cowher would have tried that trick play at his own 28...starting at the 43 instead made it much easier...and what makes u think ben or bettis would have gotten in from the 1 when seattle stopped them 3 times earlier?...it would have been 4th and goal....the seahawks had 1st and goal from the 2...big difference..my main point is that...sure Seattle could have overcome the descrepancy...but why would they have to?...the game is at travesty on every level and it fucked up the legitimacy of the NFL in my eyes

 

You just said that Jackson placed his hands on the guy. That's interference.

 

Cowher wouldn't have tried that trick play on his own 28 but what makes you think they wouldn't have got the ball down to 43 and then tried the trick play? Better yet, had that Seattle fumble not been overturned (how dare those officials keep Seattle in the game), Pittsburgh would have had the ball in Seattle territory and they could have run the trick play then or scored an additional seven points which probably still wouldn't shut you and the other 'we were robbed' people up.

 

How do I know that Pittsburgh would have got in on 4th and goal? I've watched them do it in the pass, whether it was Ben, Bettis, Staley or freakin' Kordell Stewart. I'm thinking Cowher would have played it safe and went for three though but if you can play this, "well, if that didn't happen, this would've happened' game, I can too.

 

You are assmuming that Ben wouldn't have got a TD on 4th down, they wouldn't have scored seven points if Pittsburgh didn't get fifteen yards on the chop block and Seattle's offense could have easily got seven on three downs within the 2yd line had it not been for that holding call. But Pittsburgh did make the big plays and Seattle did make the mistakes they made outside of the questionable officiating.

 

How about this, if Seattle would have made the same big plays that Pittsburgh made, had competency on all levels of their play from their receivers, kicker, special teams, etc. they would have STILL won the game even with questionable calls. You say, why did they have to, they had it won but those biased officials! Because it's football. It's the NFL and the officials are morons for the most part. Why did Pittsburgh have to play so hard in Indianapolis when they outplayed them the entire game?

 

The NFL officials are bad. No doubt about it. But the Seahawks lost this game because they imploded and made too many mistakes, penalties are mistakes too. The refs made some mistakes but not as many as the Seahawks who had every opportunity to win this game and couldn't.

 

I could sit here and say that Pittsburgh's offense wouldn't have had such a terrible start had those lousy officials not called false starts on their first possession. I could put it in slo-mo and analyze whether someone on the defensive line motioned or if Heath Miller had a muscle spasm that looked like a movement when it wasn't. I could speculate that had that call not been called Ben would have connected 80 yards for a TD to Hines Ward. I could replay the Seattle fumble and argue that Pittsburgh's defender barely grazed his shirt and that he wasn't down by contact, just as you do with the OPI call. But as a Steeler fan, I don't have to do that because Pittsburgh didn't f*ck up despite not performing at the level they should've. Seattle did.

[2GOLD 0]

The pass interference was the right call, most sane people have let that one go. They saw the replay and saw the defender get stiff armed back a step so he couldn't go for the ball. Which is illegal and is the very definition of interference. You cannot shove someone back or out of the way to make a play unless the ball is tipped.

 

If you don't think the Jackson play was pass interference, then I have no idea what to tell you.

 

The holding call on the Stevens interception, he hooked the defender near the neck. Any official is going to flag that. Hell, they flagged it earlier in the game on the Steelers (I rewatched the game TWICE last night out of boredom, damn fast Super Bowl). The Stevens fumble wasn't a catch and fumble, he never had control so that was a good call.

 

The only play they might have blow was the Big Ben sneak, I think they blew it but after seeing the replay 100 times, I can see why he didn't overturn it. It's just so damn close and the "Ball just has to cross a little" rule is flimsy. They really should make it the ball has to get into the end zone, not on the line.

 

Most of the NFL's troubles now seem to be the rules that SHOULD be detailed and easy just aren't. And some that should be more difficult and harder to define just are too damn simple.

[dh86 0]

Take it as a no, there already are examples. There's holding on every play in football, don't act like there isn't. All sorts of little tricks to avoid being called, I guess Locklear didn't know that many.

 

If you grab a guy in the chest area of his jersey, it's nearly impossible to get called, no matter how blatant it is.

 

yes there is holding on every play...just decided to call when its Seattle does it I see

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

[Guest]

How about the fact that Seattle had more total yardage than Pittsburgh? Try explaining that one, even though by now, you're blatantly trolling.

 

I mean, Seattle had more yards, surely they must have put themselves in position to score more than 10 points? Blame it on the kicker at least, that's more viable than blaming it on refs.

[dh86 0]

Ive only read of one person having the opinion that the referees were absolutely perfect. Even the televised talking heads mentioned the bad calls quite often.

 

The only thing as sad as the conspiracy theories is acting like there were zero mistakes by the officials.

 

Yes, there were some horrible calls in that game....but the fact is that, after all these bad calls, Seattle was only down 14-10 at the start of the 4th quarter and had a whole 15 minutes to score just once to take the lead, but they played like shit and got nothing. Seattle lost that game, no one else lost it for them.

 

I don't disagree with you, but the phantom hold that took back a play that would have got the ball at the Pittsburgh 2 happened in the 4th quarter if I remember correctly. Hasselbeck promptly threw a pick a couple of plays later on 3rd and long. If Seattle scores and goes up 17-14, or even kicks a field goal it's a one possession game. In any case, Seattle didn't deserve to win, but then again neither did Pittsburgh.

 

Pittsburgh deserved to win because they successfully made the big plays that win football games. They showed more character. Seattle had some bad breaks (although overexaggerated by some here) but if they made the two field goals, caught passes in bounds, didn't drop passes, managed the clock better and had better play calling, they could've won too. They didn't. Pittsburgh didn't let opportunities escape them despite a sub par performance overall.

 

its hard to let opportunities escape when u are handed a 21 pt swing and ya opponent had 161 yards taking away in penalties and callbacks

 

Wow. Let me ask you this. If Pittsburgh overcame bad officiating in Indy to win, why couldn't Seattle??? My answer. Pittsburgh played their best football against Indy and Seattle didn't play their best against Pittsburgh. This is the reason they lost the game.

 

How many times does someone have to call attention to the missed field goals, dropped passes, no running game, routine punts into the endzone when they could have pinned a struggling Steelers offense deep in their own territory and just overall terrible coaching and clock management?

 

The Steelers didn't play great football but those big plays that the offense executed won the game and their defense didn't blow big plays like the Parker run and the Randel El - Ward reverse.

 

And where are you coming up with Pittsburgh being handed 21 points? 14 of those 21 Pittsburgh points were because Seattle's defense dropped the ball on coverages, had nothing to do with officiating. A 75 yard running play that had they watched the tapes they would have seen Parker break against Cleveland I believe. A reverse pass using Randel El with Hines off to himself that they pretty much ran fairly similar in the Cinci playoff game. And Cowher would have likely went for the seven on the fourth and inches whether the Ben TD was called back or not so that likely would have been another a TD.

 

I would have preferred a Steeler victory where there were no blown calls and no excuses. The NFL has a problem with their officiating and it needs to be addressed and taken care of, no argument from me there. Turning a blind eye to what really cost Seattle this game will get an argument from me.

 

the OPI on Jackson=7 pts

holding on Locklear=possible 7pts

Roethlisberger TD=7 pts

and im not even mentioning the horse collar..the 15 yd penalty on Hasselbeck for 'blocking' that set up the Randle El pass..the horrible spot on the Mack Strong run...the 34 yard punt return called back, etc every single questionable call went against Seattle..if it were just bad refs...there woulda been bad calls both ways..this deserves federal investigation..seriously....I remember listening to Jay and Michelle on 97.1 last week and a brother of a ref said that the NFL wanted the Steelers to win...they hung up on him..he doesnt look so crazy today

 

 

the OPI on Jackson=7 pts: the right call, he pushed him off

 

holding on Locklear=possible 7pts: possible being the key word, could have easily been three

 

Roethlisberger TD=7 pts: and had the call been reversed, it would have either been 3 points or a fairly easy QB sneak or Bettis push over the goal line for 7

 

the 15 yd penalty on Hasselbeck for 'blocking' that set up the Randle El pass: The interception set up the Randle El pass, the block gave them better field position but so would 15 yds accumulated with some run or passing plays. not to mention that Hines was open by about ten yards.

 

I remember listening to Jay and Michelle on 97.1 last week and a brother of a ref said that the NFL wanted the Steelers to win...they hung up on him..he doesnt look so crazy today: Yes, the league officials made sure that Josh Brown couldn't make two field goal attempts, Shaun Alexander's presence amounted to nothing (i was shocked to see he had 95 yds total rushing), four punts went for touchbacks, big pass plays were dropped and the Hawks couldn't get their offensive play calling together to get some additional points at the end of the first half or at the end of the 4th quarter.

 

Jackson did not push off...yes he placed his hands on the guy but they were touching each other the whole route...the corner didnt budge and it was a ticky tack call at best and no way Cowher would have tried that trick play at his own 28...starting at the 43 instead made it much easier...and what makes u think ben or bettis would have gotten in from the 1 when seattle stopped them 3 times earlier?...it would have been 4th and goal....the seahawks had 1st and goal from the 2...big difference..my main point is that...sure Seattle could have overcome the descrepancy...but why would they have to?...the game is at travesty on every level and it fucked up the legitimacy of the NFL in my eyes

 

You just said that Jackson placed his hands on the guy. That's interference.

 

Cowher wouldn't have tried that trick play on his own 28 but what makes you think they wouldn't have got the ball down to 43 and then tried the trick play? Better yet, had that Seattle fumble not been overturned (how dare those officials keep Seattle in the game), Pittsburgh would have had the ball in Seattle territory and they could have run the trick play then or scored an additional seven points which probably still wouldn't shut you and the other 'we were robbed' people up.

 

How do I know that Pittsburgh would have got in on 4th and goal? I've watched them do it in the pass, whether it was Ben, Bettis, Staley or freakin' Kordell Stewart. I'm thinking Cowher would have played it safe and went for three though but if you can play this, "well, if that didn't happen, this would've happened' game, I can too.

 

You are assmuming that Ben wouldn't have got a TD on 4th down, they wouldn't have scored seven points if Pittsburgh didn't get fifteen yards on the chop block and Seattle's offense could have easily got seven on three downs within the 2yd line had it not been for that holding call. But Pittsburgh did make the big plays and Seattle did make the mistakes they made outside of the questionable officiating.

 

How about this, if Seattle would have made the same big plays that Pittsburgh made, had competency on all levels of their play from their receivers, kicker, special teams, etc. they would have STILL won the game even with questionable calls. You say, why did they have to, they had it won but those biased officials! Because it's football. It's the NFL and the officials are morons for the most part. Why did Pittsburgh have to play so hard in Indianapolis when they outplayed them the entire game?

 

The NFL officials are bad. No doubt about it. But the Seahawks lost this game because they imploded and made too many mistakes, penalties are mistakes too. The refs made some mistakes but not as many as the Seahawks who had every opportunity to win this game and couldn't.

 

I could sit here and say that Pittsburgh's offense wouldn't have had such a terrible start had those lousy officials not called false starts on their first possession. I could put it in slo-mo and analyze whether someone on the defensive line motioned or if Heath Miller had a muscle spasm that looked like a movement when it wasn't. I could speculate that had that call not been called Ben would have connected 80 yards for a TD to Hines Ward. I could replay the Seattle fumble and argue that Pittsburgh's defender barely grazed his shirt and that he wasn't down by contact, just as you do with the OPI call. But as a Steeler fan, I don't have to do that because Pittsburgh didn't f*ck up despite not performing at the level they should've. Seattle did.

 

yep u are a steelers fan...nice that u had to type a 1 page paper to justify the win...but yeah jackson and the DB had their hands on each other...so at worse the penalties offset right?...but the ref let it go til the last min..y?..but 1st and goal..4 chances..4th and goal..1 chance....but enjoy the win..Pittsburgh teams dont win often..I know I do when my teams win

[Fökai 0]

The only calls I find questionable are the Stevens' fumble and the Roethlisberger touchdown, but that's because everyone was confused as to where the plain of the endzone actually starts. I was begging Madden and Michaels to tell me where it was.

[dh86 0]

How about the fact that Seattle had more total yardage than Pittsburgh? Try explaining that one, even though by now, you're blatantly trolling.

 

I mean, Seattle had more yards, surely they must have put themselves in position to score more than 10 points? Blame it on the kicker at least, that's more viable than blaming it on refs.

 

yeah Seattle had more yards,dominated time of possession, and had less turnovers and lost by 11...they put theirselves in position to score more but it was taken away...if a football game...especially in a title game..u only make so many big plays....and im not trolling..I could give a flying fuck about either team..im a Lions fan...but a fair football game is a fair game...if officiating is like how it was yesterday...why watch?

[Guest]

I think the Roethlisberger TD was a bad call, but there's really no way that a ref could overturn it. There's no way to truly know whether the ball went over the pylon, and no one does definitively know. In my Steeler hatred, I kept telling excuses to my dad, but after the game I realized that I couldn't keep bullshitting myself.

 

Since people like to dabble in hypotheticals, let's say they do overturn it, take away the 7 points and Pittsburgh doesn't get in. Seattle still loses and would have a really hard time getting out of the endzone in that position. If you think Cowher would have kicked the FG, that's still a 17-10 win.

 

I hate hypothetical bullshit.

[2GOLD 0]

The only calls I find questionable are the Stevens' fumble and the Roethlisberger touchdown, but that's because everyone was confused as to where the plain of the endzone actually starts. I was begging Madden and Michaels to tell me where it was.

 

If any part of the ball goes even barely goes across the front of line, which is like a invisible wall to the ceiling, then by NFL rules it's a touchdown. So if even the tip of the ball barely grazes the line, even if in the air, then the play is a touchdown.

 

That rule and the tuck rule need to be changed. Badly. Cause they are soo hard to define and it relies way too much on judgement.

[justcoz 0]

yep u are a steelers fan...nice that u had to type a 1 page paper to justify the win...but yeah jackson and the DB had their hands on each other...so at worse the penalties offset right?...but the ref let it go til the last min..y?..but 1st and goal..4 chances..4th and goal..1 chance....but enjoy the win..Pittsburgh teams dont win often..I know I do when my teams win

 

I didn't have to type a one page paper to justify the win but rather you being blind to the fact that some bad calls didn't cost Seattle this game, Seattle cost themselves this game.

 

Nice cheap heat desperation with the Pittsburgh teams don't win very often comment but it sounds pretty ridiculous when they just won their fifth Super Bowl. And may I refer you to the Penguins of the 90's, the Pirates of the 60's and 70's, Bruno Sammartino and freakin' Kurt Angle.

[Special K 0]

Come on, guys. Let's go for legibility. Not every post has to quote 3 pages of an argument.

 

ABC still pissed me off, though.

[Guest]

You know, his referring to other teams comment last night got me told to stop when I responded, so that's really not something you should address.

[Special K 0]

The thing is, the Hawks should have been at least up by 9 after their first 3 possesions, the Steelers weren't stopping them, they were fucking up.

 

If they were up 9, they would have had momentum going into the second half. That's all on the Seahawks and Holgrem, though.

[justcoz 0]

"That's the way [the officials] called them," Hasselbeck continued. "The Steelers played well enough to win tonight, and we didn't. They should get credit. It's disappointing, it's hard, but what are you going to do?"

[jimmy no nose 0]

I love how on every site I go to some Seattle fan posts a picture of Ben after he was pushed backwards on the TD run. I'm still not completely sure that he crossed the plane, but this picture is a much more accurate representation of the play to base an argument on

[Boon 0]

Yo is that Bigfoot laying a block in the back?

[Guest]

All that picture did was make it harder to tell. That's the most difficult play to judge I've seen in a while.

[Slayer 0]

Yo is that Bigfoot laying a block in the back?

That's extra scary to me, because there's a large, out-of-focus lineman roaming the countryside.

[Guest]

Oh god, Kyle Turley's on the loose.

[Red Baron 0]

It seemed weird that Hasselbeck would throw 50 times in a game. He's never done that in his career, so why change it.

[NoCalMike 0]

The Pass Interference Call on Seattle was the correct call but all it really does is further re-iterate the incosistency of the officiating in the NFL, as WRs do the same thing all the time right in front of the official's faces and it goes uncalled.

[jimmy no nose 0]

I found these pics on another message board, it's hard to debate any of the calls based on these.

 

Jackson's pass interference, watch the position of Chris Hope's feet relative to the E before and after the push

 

Roethlisberger TD, note that the ball is in Ben's right arm

 

Locklear's hold on the Jeremy Stevens catch at the 2, his hand is clearly around Haggans's body, you rarely get away with something like that.

[Guest]

Those pictures are much more clear. On the PI, Hope moves all the way across the E; on the Ben TD, it looks like the middle of the ball is across and the corners that is exposed is further back than it seemed; and that's clearly a hold. I've seen holding called on much less.

[2GOLD 0]

Well shit, now I don't think they blew any calls, at least not of the big three mentioned.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

The penalties are a bit iffy. Technically they are the right call, but usually they are let go.

 

As far as I could see, Roethlisberger's TD call was the correct one. After it happened, I rewound it on the PVR and played it back several times at 1/15 speed, and it certainly looked to me like the ball was over the goal line while Roethlisberger was still in the air. He comes down behind the line, but that was never in dispute. It doesn't matter if the ball crossed the plane while he was in the air. It is close, but it is the call I would have made too.

[Red Baron 0]

That PI call just makes it more evident that the DB decided to step back. Any CB could have made an attempt to block the ball. If that was a TD, Cowher would have reemed it in to the DB.