This week in the NBA

[Brett Favre 0]

Funny, I thought the Bulls could have built around Brand and Artest, but that's just me.

 

Did you say the Knicks don't know how to draft? If Isiah does anything very well, it's draft. And how the hell do you know the players they brought aren't sought after by other teams? Because the Knicks took them? The Lakers wanted Rose and Curry. The Nuggets want Francis right now. The Nuggets also wanted Crawford at the time. Jerome James and Malik Rose are different stories, but don't make it sound like the whole team is made up by players who have contracts so horrible and play so bad that no one wants to touch them.

 

The Mavericks traded for Dirk. The Pacers traded for Jermaine. There's no ONE pattern.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Actually, the Bulls could have been a hell of a lot better than that. They could have had a starting five of Hinrich, Hassell, Artest, Brand and Miller. But they had a piss poor GM who was hell bent on rebuilding his way and they were relegated to bottom feeders until Paxson came around.

 

The pattern is that Nowitzki and O'Neal are good players with bright futures who were pegged as future stars by the teams that acquired them. The Knicks trade for overpriced junk.

[Brett Favre 0]

You say that now because you now know, but Dirk and Pat Garrity were traded for Tractor Traylor, and Jermaine was traded for Dale Davis. Don't give me this crap that everyone knew they were going to be stars all along. That's thing, you don't know how someones going to turn out.

[Guest]

No one is asking for Frye, Lee, and Robinson like they did for Sweetney, Lampe and Vranes, so that should tell you something about the difference in talent level.

And yet, every trade that is offered to the Knicks is hung up because they won't give up Frye, and they shouldn't give up Robinson.

[naiwf 0]

The pattern is that Nowitzki and O'Neal are good players with bright futures who were pegged as future stars by the teams that acquired them. The Knicks trade expiring contracts for overpriced junk.

 

Added two critical words to your sentence. I fail to see how trading for picks from the Spurs or Nuggets will help the Knicks. This idea that "1st Round picks" help the team when they're in the 20's is just silly. Larry Brown has already said David Lee won't be shit in this league, so realistically what guys are the Knicks gonna get in the 20-29 range that will see any more PT than Lee does? Those picks are worthless, but Isiah doesn't care because people like you will see the bright side in every horrible deal he makes, and sadly his bosses fall in that group. As long as they claim that $1.7 million every time they open MSG for a home game, the Dolans don't care if the Knicks win 15 games a year or 50.

[Human Fly 0]

I did not like the Richardson/Thomas trade (especially after the Rose trade). Q needs someone to feed him the ball, and right now I do not think NY has that. With the glut of shooters I think a garbage man would be a big help right now.

 

He did get rid of Tim Thomas though...

[Brett Favre 0]

Yeah, crap like Tony Parker, and Latrell Sprewell, and Tayshaun Prince, and Josh Howard, and Manu Ginobili, and Rashard Lewis, and Gilbert Arenas, and other crap that's been picked in late rounds. Isiah is good at drafting, so the position doesn't bother me much.

[Brett Favre 0]

No one is asking for Frye, Lee, and Robinson like they did for Sweetney, Lampe and Vranes, so that should tell you something about the difference in talent level.

And yet, every trade that is offered to the Knicks is hung up because they won't give up Frye, and they shouldn't give up Robinson.

 

Yeah that's why Francis and K-Mart are still in Knick trade rumors.

[Guest]

There was a problem with all of those players when they entered the draft. Parker and Ginobili are foreign and no one knew if they would come over, Spree was a headcase, Prince couldn't play offense, Lewis was a highschooler, and Arenas wasn't mature enough. They all had potential and in the case of the American guys, only fell because of immaturity or weakness.

 

And yay for more overpriced players. The three that won titles, out of that group, aren't franchise players.

[Brett Favre 0]

There was a problem with all of those players when they entered the draft. Parker and Ginobili are foreign and no one knew if they would come over, Spree was a headcase, Prince couldn't play offense, Lewis was a highschooler, and Arenas wasn't mature enough. They all had potential and in the case of the American guys, only fell because of immaturity or weakness.

 

WTF does this mean? So this means no other players will fall? I don't understand. It's like there won't be late round steals anymore?

[Guest]

You don't get what that means? That means the Knicks aren't drafting guys who fell, they're drafting players and expecting them to play well now, or they're dealing them. That's stupid.

 

Isiah's a good drafter, the situation is not. The contracts ahead of them ensure that the rookies can't get any playing time, and when they do, they get thrust into the rotation.

[Brett Favre 0]

You don't get what that means? That means the Knicks aren't drafting guys who fell, they're drafting players and expecting them to play well now, or they're dealing them. That's stupid.

 

They aren't drafting guys who fell? Who the hell are you to tell us the future?

 

Your argument is basically "Uh well, those guys fell, but um, there won't be guys falling ever again, and if they do, the Knicks don't draft them because I said so."

[Guest]

If you think that David Lee was a great player that fell, or that Frye fell out of the top 5 into where he was drafted, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

Those guys fell, but um, they aren't franchise players, which is something the Knicks lack.

[Brett Favre 0]

If you think that David Lee was a great player that fell, or that Frye fell out of the top 5 into where he was drafted, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

Those guys fell, but um, they aren't franchise players, which is something the Knicks lack.

 

Didn't you just say that the guys with rings aren't franchise players? Whatever.

 

Give me the player that fell in last year's draft that's a franchise player. And Frye could have easily been a top 5 pick had the GMs had a chance to do the draft over.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

He's just pointing out the reasons why they fell and how that won't really help the Knicks. The Spurs drafted Parket and Ginobli. They understand the foreign market better than any other team and they are masters at maximizing their late round picks.

 

Tayshaun Prince went to a team with a good structure where he could learn and develop his game with coaches and strong management. The Knicks don't really have a system that would foster this sort of development. Guys like Spree, Lewis and Arenas would have crumbled under the NY pressure.

 

What exactly do guys like Robinson and Lee offer that is so fantastic? Wouldn't it be better to get a stud at the top of the draft than maximizing the chance to get a contributor at the end?

[Brett Favre 0]

You guys are saying this now, but give it 5 years to see whether or not they'll be productive players. You talk about Parker, and Spree, and Prince, yet you guys most likely didn't even give it a thought that they would be star players TILL they BECAME star players.

[Guest]

That actually fell? If there's anyone, which I doubt, it's probably going to be Gerald Green. Franchise players DO NOT GET TAKEN IN THE TWENTIES. That's what the Knicks are lacking at this point.

 

You're totally missing my point as far as Ginobili, Parker and Prince are concerned. Those guys are complimentary players, not guys you can build a franchise around. If you didn't notice, I never mentioned Josh Howard because I failed to see how nobody could take him in the top 10, but anyway. The Knicks don't have and won't have for the time being, a guy that they can build around.

 

Until the Knicks can find that guy, none of these trades mean shit. The most they'll get out of them is an early 1st round exit.

 

Your definition of a star player is very loose.

[Brett Favre 0]

Maybe he'll fall, maybe he won't. Maybe they have him, maybe they don't. Maybe they'll trade for him, maybe they won't. It's the same shit with like 20+ teams in the NBA.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Ok, so if Isiah is this master at evaluating talent and drafting well, wouldn't it have made sense to horde picks, let some of the bad contracts run out, find a coach that could develop young players and start building to something 2-3 years down the road. There is no way they would be any worse off then they are now.

 

Isiah's moves are completely contradictory to the method you think they should employ. The young guys are blocked by aging veterans with terrible contracts and no upside. You have to go one way or the other.

[Guest]

Nobody else in the NBA has this type of problem. A hard cap is probably the only thing that could get the Knicks out of this situation, as it did with the Rangers in the NHL, and that's not about to happen.

[naiwf 0]

You don't get what that means? That means the Knicks aren't drafting guys who fell, they're drafting players and expecting them to play well now, or they're dealing them. That's stupid.

 

They aren't drafting guys who fell? Who the hell are you to tell us the future?

 

Your argument is basically "Uh well, those guys fell, but um, there won't be guys falling ever again, and if they do, the Knicks don't draft them because I said so."

 

You're not getting his point. The Knicks are drafting players who weren't highly coveted, but because the Knicks are in such a dire situation they need to play NOW. But, they don't get any PT because they have a bunch of overpriced, out of position and old bums clogging up their contractual situation which dictates that total wastes of space like Malik Rose and/or Mo Taylor get minutes. When those draftees don't become 20 & 10 players overnight, they get packaged in a deal and shipped off for another, overpriced, duplicate position bum with more years on his deal for another pick in the low 20's.

 

The best example I can think of is this, is Eddy Curry, really doing that much more to help the Knicks than Sweetney, a potential # 1 overall pick, and the Knicks 2nd round picks in '07 & '09? I don't think so, and the benefit they received in dumping Tim Thomas for Antonio Davis was negated when they promptly gave up Davis for a $17 million player in Jalen Rose and another pick that will never see any court time as a Knick. Weren't you one of the guys that thought getting rid of Davis would allow Frye and Lee to develop? How's that working out?

[Brett Favre 0]

Isiah is being forced to try to get into the playoffs and build at the same time. Obviously it isn't working right now.

 

Look, when he first got here, he needed to get into the playoffs. The owner wanted him the playoffs. Obviously that wasn't working out either, so he traded for Curry, is keeping Frye (he could have traded him for Odom, Artest or Harrington or whatever if he wasn't rebuilding). He is rebuilding, just without the cap. Like I said, it's Francis replacing Crawford.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Maybe he'll fall, maybe he won't. Maybe they have him, maybe they don't. Maybe they'll trade for him, maybe they won't. It's the same shit with like 20+ teams in the NBA.

 

I can't think of one team that has as little to look forward to in the future as the Knicks do.

[Guest]

Look, when he first got here, he needed to get into the playoffs. The owner wanted him the playoffs. Obviously that wasn't working out either, so he traded for Curry, is keeping Frye (he could have traded him for Odom, Artest or Harrington or whatever if he wasn't rebuilding). He is rebuilding, just without the cap. Like I said, it's Francis replacing Crawford.

How much shelf life do you think Francis has left as a player close to worth the money he's being paid?

[Brett Favre 0]

Frye is still getting his minutes. Larry Brown is acting like a douchebag with David Lee; that's the only problem. Nate is still getting his minutes.

 

If Isiah wasn't serious about rebuilding, Nate, Lee, and Frye would be Pacers or Lakers by now.

[Brett Favre 0]

Look, when he first got here, he needed to get into the playoffs. The owner wanted him the playoffs. Obviously that wasn't working out either, so he traded for Curry, is keeping Frye (he could have traded him for Odom, Artest or Harrington or whatever if he wasn't rebuilding). He is rebuilding, just without the cap. Like I said, it's Francis replacing Crawford.

How much shelf life do you think Francis has left as a player close to worth the money he's being paid?

 

His contract has like 3-4 more years, so yeah, it's fine. He's turning 29 later this month, so up to the age of 32-33? That's fine with me.

[Guest]

But if they trade for veterans, the rookies won't get those minutes anymore. See the problem? The Knicks have to go one way or the other.

[Brett Favre 0]

Maybe he'll fall, maybe he won't. Maybe they have him, maybe they don't. Maybe they'll trade for him, maybe they won't. It's the same shit with like 20+ teams in the NBA.

 

I can't think of one team that has as little to look forward to in the future as the Knicks do.

 

That's not the point i'm trying to make that. That future stuff is what you believe, but not every NBA team, and like I said 20+, don't have a "franchise" player, like you say the Knicks don't.

[naiwf 0]

Frye is still getting his minutes. Larry Brown is acting like a douchebag with David Lee; that's the only problem. Nate is still getting his minutes.

 

If Isiah wasn't serious about rebuilding, Nate, Lee, and Frye would be Pacers or Lakers by now.

 

Right, and the Knicks would have gotten back Artest or Odom, which is BETTER than having Marbury 2.0 aka Steve Francis.

[Brett Favre 0]

Frye is still getting his minutes. Larry Brown is acting like a douchebag with David Lee; that's the only problem. Nate is still getting his minutes.

 

If Isiah wasn't serious about rebuilding, Nate, Lee, and Frye would be Pacers or Lakers by now.

 

Right, and the Knicks would have gotten back Artest or Odom, which is BETTER than having Marbury 2.0 aka Steve Francis.

 

The Knicks aren't giving up Robinson, Lee, or Frye in the proposed deal.