World Title

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

We've of course, repeatedly, heard JR refer to Ric Flair as a 16 time champion, or HHH as a 10 time champion. Is there an accepted definition to the IWC of what counts as a heavyweight title? To the WWE?

 

I would think the accepted criteria would be : WWE/F, WCW/World Heavyweight, NWA, AWA, and ECW.

 

Is there such a status, or is this just kind of thinking out loud on my part?

[Carnival 0]

I've always wondered where WWE got that number from, cuz Flair is actually a 24xchamp. (14xNWA)(8xWCW)(2xWWF)

 

I'm sure they don't count those 1 day switches Flair was having with the NWA title, but even if they don't, that only takes away 5. so he'd be 19x champ.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I'd really only consider the WCW/NWA title (-'01) and the WWF ('84-) as true world titles. I think the definition changes based on what people feel like recognizing. The WWE recognizes whatever will appease their rewritten history.

[Black Lushus 0]

no, WWE/F title reigns go further back than 84, come on now....I don't think ECW ever hit that kind of elite status...I think it's been pretty well accepted that the true WORLD titles are NWA/WCW, AWA, and WWE/F.

[The Buzz 0]

I accept NWA, AWA, WWF, WCW, ECW

 

 

 

I also think in ten years ROH will add itself to my list.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

If you have a national TV deal, a regular PPV special, and your heavyweight championship is defended not only nationally regularly, but globally at least a few times throughout the year:

 

Your promotion has a World Heavyweight Title.

[nl5xsk1 0]

The problem with that logic, UTSU, is that it'd mean that small-ass "world" titles like WCCW would count ... as much as I like Rick Rude, I never considered his holding that belt as being a legit "world title reign".

 

no, WWE/F title reigns go further back than 84, come on now....I don't think ECW ever hit that kind of elite status...I think it's been pretty well accepted that the true WORLD titles are NWA/WCW, AWA, and WWE/F.

 

Lushus is a smart, smart man ... I agree with him.

[razazteca 0]

If you have a national TV deal, a regular PPV special, and your heavyweight championship is defended not only nationally regularly, but globally at least a few times throughout the year:

 

Your promotion has a World Heavyweight Title.

 

 

So the NWA/TNA title is a world title....damn.

[GODSON 0]

No love for IWGP and Triple Crown?

[razazteca 0]

Only American companies can be world champions in sports...well that the case in pro-wrestling, baseball, and football.

[daileyxplanet 0]

To be fair, when was the last time IWGP or Triple Crown championships were defended Stateside?

[thecitythesky 0]

If you have a national TV deal, a regular PPV special, and your heavyweight championship is defended not only nationally regularly, but globally at least a few times throughout the year:

 

Your promotion has a World Heavyweight Title.

 

 

So the NWA/TNA title is a world title....damn.

*

 

Yes actually, it's the NWA World Title.

[razazteca 0]

I will always refer to the title as NWA/promotion since that is its home at the moment. Where did the NWA World Title go when WCW left NWA and where did it go when Shane Douglas of Eastern Championship Wrestling threw it in the trash.

[Perfxion 0]

LONGEST running WORLD title is the NWA World title: 1948- present day.

 

LONGEST straight lineage for the world title goes to the WWE championship: 1961 present day.

 

In my eyes, these are the world titles that should count:

 

NWA(TNA, JCP, Georgia, ect ect ect)

WWE Championship (WWWF, WWF, WWE: Cena's current title)

WCW(Flair to Booker T)

AWA(Gagne to Larry Z.)

NJPW: IWGP(Hogan to Lesnar)

AJPW: Triple Crown(Baba to present day)

USWA (Memephis, AWA, WCCW)

WWE: World Champion (Big Gold Belt: Angle's current title)

NOAH: GHC (Misawa to present day)

[Dobbs 3K 0]

You probably can't count USWA and WCCW because the champions basically only wrestled in their own territories. I know WCCW was syndicated to an extent, but they never had PPVs, and I don't think USWA was widely syndicated, either.

 

Like Jerry Lawler once said to Kerry Von Erich "The World's a whole lot bigger than Texas."

[pochorenella 0]

Has the NWA Title (the TNA version) ever been defended other than in Orlando or Nashville? I know that it'll be defended at TNA's first house show, but really, come on. No fucking way that Title should be considered a world championship other than because of its previous prestige, which I think it lost quite a while ago. And isn't the AWA Title coming back too? Should we also consider THAT a world championship again 'cause it has the history?

[Perfxion 0]

USWA was the AWA, WCCW, and Memphis merging into one fed. Granted the AWA died, and WCCW soon after, but the title lineage is related to all three merging as one so that none of the groups died due to NWA and WWF owning wrestling in North America.

[The Decemberists 0]

Has the NWA Title (the TNA version) ever been defended other than in Orlando or Nashville? I know that it'll be defended at TNA's first house show, but really, come on. No fucking way that Title should be considered a world championship other than because of its previous prestige, which I think it lost quite a while ago. And isn't the AWA Title coming back too? Should we also consider THAT a world championship again 'cause it has the history?

 

Since TNA took the NWA title Jarrett has defended it in...England, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, Japan and Mexico on several occasions, and the belt changed hands in Canada when Jeff beat Raven last year.

 

When they did the weekly PPVs, part of Jarretts entrance video listed all the places he'd defended. There could be some other countries it's been defended in since then, but off the top of my head I can't remember what they'd be.

 

The AWA title is currently the main belt in, I think, Zero-One. But I personlly would not count that as a current "world title", but the NWA one i definatly would.

[Hawk 34 0]

A title has to be defended around the world to be considered a legitimate world title? Would that include Ring of Honor? They aren't a territory, the title has been defended around the around and against other talents from other promotions as well.

 

If a promotion is reported in another country and has tv deals in canada and has it's matches aired in Japan, it should count as a legitimate WORLD TITLE.

[Bruce Blank 0]

USWA was the AWA, WCCW, and Memphis merging into one fed. Granted the AWA died, and WCCW soon after, but the title lineage is related to all three merging as one so that none of the groups died due to NWA and WWF owning wrestling in North America.

Almost correct there

 

the AWA was part of a cooperation between the AWA, WCCW and CWA (Memphis) and they recognized one "Unified" champion for a while - but that champion was both AWA and WCCW champion (Seperate belts)

 

and it was only one man Jerry Lawler. He won the AWA title, later beat Kerry for the WCCW title and they were "unified" - but neither promotion ceased to be a seperate entity, it was like the NWA territories originally.

 

Then the AWA pulled out, the AWA title was taken from Lawler (I think he was actually stripped of it) and the AWA ran by themselves for a year, year and a half before it died. The AWA lineage died in 91 or whenever the federation finally folded (When Larry "the Champ" Zybysko started to appear in WCW basically)

 

WCCW and CWA/CWF (I forget which name they used) were merged by then to one federation though - and shortly afterwards changed their name to USWA, but that was after the AWA pulled out of the whole thing.

 

USWA = Texas & Tennessee

[Bruce Blank 0]

I've always wondered where WWE got that number from, cuz Flair is actually a 24xchamp. (14xNWA)(8xWCW)(2xWWF)

 

I'm sure they don't count those 1 day switches Flair was having with the NWA title, but even if they don't, that only takes away 5. so he'd be 19x champ.

Aren't 2 of those reigns actually with the "Big Gold Belt" or the "NWA International title" that WCW promoted for a while (Traded it with Ric Flair and later unified it with Sting's WCW title)

 

I doubt those 2 are counted, nor the 1 day switches overseas that were never promoted in any way.

[Guest burth179]

I went through this recently and have determined the following.

 

Flair was a 10 time NWA champ. Not counting the Carlos Colon switches and possible others. However, I don't think they are counting the Harley Race 2 day reign a short time after Starcade. So that makes 9 times. He is a 7 time WCW champ (because they don't count the title being held up between him and Steamboat in 1994) and a 2 time WWF champ. So that should be 18 title reigns.

 

BUT they are not counting his first WCW title reign and the 2 NWA title reigns he held at the same time as any type of sepeate title reign (even though it should). WCW never recognized Flair lost the NWA belt in March 1991 to Fujinami (and apparently neither does Flair) so that is where we get the 16 title reigns. Basically they are combining the 3 titles he held during this time period (2 NWA reigns, 1 WCW reign) as ONE title reign.

 

7 NWA (not counting the Race swith over overseas and counting 2 NWA reigns in early 91 ONLY as 1 WCW title reign)

7 WCW (not counting when it was "held" up in 1994)

2 WWE

 

There is your 16.

 

This is my best guess as to where the number comes from.

[Guest burth179]

The International Title doesn't come into play in the count because Flair was the last NWA champ, and "became" the International champion in a horrible angle.

 

So that is already counted as his very last NWA title reign. The 2nd time he gained the bogus "international" title was in a unification match because he was the WCW champ at that point and beat Sting in the unification match. So that is not counted as an additional title reign either.

 

My point being is that those title reigns are NOT counted into his total.

[BruiserKC 0]

WCCW and CWA/CWF (I forget which name they used) were merged by then to one federation though - and shortly afterwards changed their name to USWA, but that was after the AWA pulled out of the whole thing.

 

It was CWA that Memphis was known as (also Mid-Southern not to be confused with Bill Watts' Mid-South/UWF). CWF was both Championship Wrestling of Florida or Continental Wrestling in Alabama.

[Hoff 0]

I'd say the NWA (TNA) and WWF/E and the only ones I would consider true World Championships in the United States. ROH could get there at some point, but right now they're the highest-up of the many pretenders to the throne. The WCW Title, remember, was merged into the WWF title, and I believe the ECW was too. If not, I'll give ECW the benefit of the doubt, because nearly every casual fan knew what ECW was, as opposed to ROH or any other indie out there. I still have a hard time accepting the "World" Title, but the holders have done some good work legitamizing it, particularly Benoit, Orton, and Angle. If Rey comes out on top at WMXXII, that'll help its stock rise even further from "the belt HHH was handed while wearing a suit."

[Perfxion 0]

taking my mistake of the list that leaves:

 

NWA(TNA, JCP, Georgia, ect ect ect)

WWE Championship (WWWF, WWF, WWE: Cena's current title)

WCW(Flair to Booker T)

AWA(Gagne to Larry Z.)

NJPW: IWGP(Hogan to Lesnar)

AJPW: Triple Crown(Baba to present day)

WWE: World Champion (Big Gold Belt: Angle's current title)

NOAH: GHC (Misawa to present day)

 

You know whats sad? After almost 60 years of clear world titles, only three are left stateside and two are in one comapny.

 

The ECW world title did not merge into the WWE title. The WWE championship at its peak is the WWE Championship, WCW world, IC, US, Euro, Hardcore, WCW International World, WWF National, and maybe the WCW TV title.

 

BTW: How many title reigns is under Hogan's belt? 12?

6 WWF/E reigns

5 WCW reigns(I think)

1 IWGP reign

[World's Worst Man 0]

Hogan wasn't the first IWGP Champ, Inoki was. Hogan never held the IWGP Title either. Baba wasn't the first Triple Crown Champ, Jumbo Tsuruta was. Baba was the first PWF Champ, which is one part of the Triple Crown.

[Hawk 34 0]

I'd say the NWA (TNA) and WWF/E and the only ones I would consider true World Championships in the United States. ROH could get there at some point, but right now they're the highest-up of the many pretenders to the throne. The WCW Title, remember, was merged into the WWF title, and I believe the ECW was too. If not, I'll give ECW the benefit of the doubt, because nearly every casual fan knew what ECW was, as opposed to ROH or any other indie out there. I still have a hard time accepting the "World" Title, but the holders have done some good work legitamizing it, particularly Benoit, Orton, and Angle. If Rey comes out on top at WMXXII, that'll help its stock rise even further from "the belt HHH was handed while wearing a suit."

 

The ECW title, was never unified with the WWE title. The ECW title died the night ECW shut down in 2001, Rhyno is still the last champion and probably will be. (Although, claims to not posses the ecw title)

[pochorenella 0]

Hogan wasn't the first IWGP Champ, Inoki was. Hogan never held the IWGP Title either.

 

Are you sure? I've read many times that Hogan beat Inoki to become the very first IWGP Champ. He beat him via knockout (he knocked him out of the ring or something.)

 

BTW, as of last year, Hogan is also a two-time AWA Champion.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Hogan beat Inoki in the first IWGP League in 1983. The IWGP Heavyweight Title didn't come into existence until 1987, when the winner of that year's IWGP League (Inoki) was awarded the title.