Bret vs HBK vs Flair vs Austin

[Shanghai Kid 0]

List each wrestlers best match, and than rank them as workers, talkers, and than as an overall wrestler.

[brighty 0]

List each wrestlers best match, and than rank them as workers, talkers, and than as an overall wrestler.

 

 

Best Match:

Bret - WrestleMania 13 v. Steve Austin

HBK - In Your House Badd Blood v. The Undertaker

Flair - Clash Of The Champions 6 v. Ricky Steamboat

Austin - WrestleMania X-Seven v. The Rock.

 

rated as workers:

1. Austin

2. Flair

3. Bret

4. Shawn

 

rated as talkers:

1. Flair

2. Austin

3. Shawn

4. Bret

 

rated overall:

1. Austin

2. Flair

3. Bret

4. Shawn

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I'm sorry, even if Steve Austin was the love child of Ricky Steamboat and Bret Hart before he blew out his knees and hurt his neck(which to the best of my knowledge he wasn't), his main event brawls circa '99 are all but unwatchable messes that I would rate only slightly better than the average John Cena match. He is not the best worker of the 4.

[Guest bigm350]

Best match:

 

Bret: vs Austin, Survivor Series 96.

Flair: vs Windham, WCW Worldwide 1-20-87.

Austin: vs Bret, Survivor Series 96.

Michaels: vs Foley, Mindgames 96.

 

Workers:

 

 

 

Hart

Flair

Austin

Michaels

 

Talkers:

 

Flair

Austin

Michaels

Bret

 

Overall:

 

1. Bret

2. Flair

3. Austin

4. Michaels.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Best Match:

 

Bret - vs. Austin (WMXIII)

Flair - vs. Steamboat (Chi-Town Rumble)

Michaels - vs. Taker (Badd Blood)

Austin - vs. Rock (WMXVII)

 

Workers-

 

1. Flair

2. Bret

3. Austin

4. Shawn

 

Talkers-

 

1. Flair

2. Austin

3. Bret

4. Shawn

 

Overall-

 

1. Flair

2. Austin

3. Bret

4. Shawn

[humanoid92 0]

List each wrestlers best match, and than rank them as workers, talkers, and than as an overall wrestler.

 

Best Match:

 

Bret- vs. Bulldog, Wembley

Shawn- vs. Jarrett, IYH 2

Flair- vs. Steamboat, Clash

Austin- vs. Bret, Survivor Series

 

As Workers:

1) Bret

2) Flair

3) Shawn

4) Austin

 

Talkers:

 

1) Flair

2) Austin

3) Shawn

4) Bret

 

Overall:

1) Bret

2) Flair

3) Shawn

4) Austin

[chaosrage 0]

Best Match:

Bret - vs HBK, Wrestlemania 12

HBK - vs Bret, Wrestlemania 12

Flair - vs Ricky Steamboat, Clash of the Champions 6

Austin - vs Bret, Wrestlemania 13

 

rated as workers:

1. Shawn

2. Bret

3. Flair

4. Austin

 

rated as talkers:

1. Flair

2. Austin

3. Shawn

4. Bret

 

rated overall:

1. Shawn

2. Bret

3. Austin

4. Flair (mostly for his last 12 years. If he had quit in 94, he would be higher)

[Copper Feel 0]

As workers:

 

1. Flair

2. Austin

3. Bret

4. HBK

 

As talkers:

 

1. Austin

2. Flair

3. Bret

4. HBK

 

Overall:

 

1. Austin

2. Flair

3. Bret

4. HBK

[Guest Zarock]

Best Match:

Flair- vs. Ricky Steamboat, 2/3 falls (although you could put another of their matches on their)

Austin-vs. Bret Hart @ Wrestlemania I guess (I disliked it though for all the brawling)

Hart-vs. Owen Hart @ Wrestlemania 10

Micheals-vs. Razor Ramon @ Summerslam

 

Workers:

1. Flair

2. Austin & Bret

3. Micheals (When he's going against a guy at equal or better level, he's really great, but he can't REALLY carry guys like the above)

 

Talkers:

1. Flair

2. Austin

3. Micheals

4. Bret Hart

 

Overall:

1. Flair

2. Austin

3. HBK & Hart

[chaosrage 0]

3. Micheals (When he's going against a guy at equal or better level, he's really great, but he can't REALLY carry guys like the above)

 

Now that's total bullshit right there. Shawn's made a career out of carrying guys. I'd like to see Austin have as good of a match with UT that Shawn did. Or Sid, or nash, or Hogan. Hall, best match in his career. Jarrett, best match in his career. Shelton, best match in his career. Foley, best match in his career.

 

Anyone rating Austin higher than Shawn is just insane.

[Guest Zarock]

I never said that he couldn't carry guys (which IS bullshit, you're right about that) but I mean that he didn't do so to the extent of Hart or Flair.

[CanadianChris 0]

Best match:

 

Bret - vs. British Bulldog (Summerslam 92)

HBK - vs. Razor Ramon (WrestleMania X, ladder match)

Flair - vs. Ricky Steamboat (WrestleWar 89)

Austin - vs. Bret Hart (Survivor Series 96)

 

Workers:

1. Flair

2. Bret

3. Austin

4. HBK

 

Talkers:

1. Flair

2. Austin

3. HBK

4. Bret

 

Overall (I just added the rankings above together):

 

1. Flair

2. Austin

3. Bret

4. HBK

 

One note - Austin would have had a great chance to be above Flair if it hadn't been for the broken neck vs. Owen. People forget this, but his mat skills rivalled anyone's in the mid-90s. He had to change his style just when he became most visible, and the brawling style is all anyone remembers him for now.

[World's Worst Man 0]

I'd say HBK dragged down great workers if anything, and was better against lesser opponents. Bret on the other hand, was great against anyone. In-ring wrestling probably boils down to Bret or Flair. I like Bret over Flair, because Bret's great matches seemed to be more varied than Flair's great matches, which were more often than not, fairly repetitive. Although one could say Bret had the same problem, I'd say that criticism would only apply to his lower-end work.

[chaosrage 0]

I never said that he couldn't carry guys (which IS bullshit, you're right about that) but I mean that he didn't do so to the extent of Hart or Flair.

 

You said above. Austin was above.

 

The only carry jobs that Hart had on the level of Shawn that I can think of are Diesel and Bulldog. (And Bulldog had a far better match with Owen)

[Dangerous A 0]

List each wrestlers best match, and than rank them as workers, talkers, and than as an overall wrestler.

 

 

Bret- Bret vs Owen Cage match Summerslam 94

 

HBK- HBK vs Taker (HIAC) Bad Blood

 

Flair- Flair vs Steamboat 2/3 falls Clash of Champions

 

Austin- Austin vs Bret WM13 Submission match

 

 

Workers

 

1) Bret

2) Austin

3) Shawn

4) Flair

 

Talkers

 

1) Flair

2) Austin

3) Shawn

4) Bret

 

Overall

 

1) Austin

2) Shawn

3) Bret

4) Flair

 

*note* had Flair not stuck around so long and stunk up his reputation the last 4 years, he probrably would be higher in my rankings.

[Hawk 34 0]

I'm so tired of seeing this endless and pointless debate between these same four workers all the time.

 

There more comparable workers then Flair. There are more diverse workers then Austin. There more talented workers then Shawn. There are more debatable workers then Bret.

 

I'm stealing this thread so we can have a fresh debate

 

Rank and compare

Bryan Danielson

Dean Melenko

Kurt Angle

Owen Hart

[Perfxion 0]

Best match:

 

Bret: vs Tiger Mask I

 

HBK: vs Jarrett (IYH2)

 

Flair: Vs Steamboat 2/3 falls (Clash of the Champions VI)

 

Austin: vs Bret Hart (Survivor Series 10/ 1996)

 

Worker:

 

Bret (only 5 moves repeated)

Austin (FUCKING great from 1990 to 1997, pretty good with a broken neck)

Flair (almost the same match with everyone sans the really good workers)

HBK(THE same match with everyone sans the really good workers)

 

Talker:

Flair (duh)

HBK (heel work is some the best)

Austin (Mic skills fell off faster than his ring skills)

Hart (Like Arn Anderson's career, solid, yet utterly forgettable)

 

Overall:

Hart: to quote JR: From bell to bell you knew you were getting quality

Flair: would be higher if he retired in 1994.

Austin: His career as a worker peaked in the summer of 97, his drawing power peaked in the summer of 99.

HBK: sums up the WWF in on swoop: Flashy without much substance.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

One note - Austin would have had a great chance to be above Flair if it hadn't been for the broken neck vs. Owen. People forget this, but his mat skills rivalled anyone's in the mid-90s. He had to change his style just when he became most visible, and the brawling style is all anyone remembers him for now.

Can you point out any DVDs I should put in my Netflix list to see Austin's pre injury genius?

[Perfxion 0]

Um....not on DVD, but SurServ 96, C. Stampede, all of the Dangerous Alliance and Holywood blondes matches you can find. On DVD: Wm13

[CanadianChris 0]

And try finding Austin's match with Benoit from the Raw after Survivor Series 2000. A great wrestling match that Austin requested just to prove he could still do more than brawl.

[theintensifier 0]

It's impossible to compare Hart, Flair, Austin, and Michaels.

 

But, I'll play along to be nice.

 

Best Match -

 

Steve Austin: vs. Bret Hart, 3/23/97, Submission.

 

Ric Flair: first one that comes to mind is vs. Steamboat, 5/7/89, top ten matches of all-time, in America and Japan.

 

Bret Hart: vs. Austin, 3/23/97, Submission.

 

Shawn Michaels: vs. Razor Ramon, 3/20/94, Ladder - the match that made Shawn Michaels. Yes, he was a star pre ladder match, but post match, he was made into a superstar.

 

Workers:

 

1. Ric Flair - His 1989 campaign was the greatest, if not second greatest (possibly second to Kobashi's '93) heavyweight year ever. Had off the top of my head, five or six *****, a couple MOTDC. He could no wrong in the ring. I would have loved to see him and the broomstick go at it. His 1989 year alone would win for him here. Flair has had so many great matches over the years, and with more different wrestlers than anyone else. Gave Luger, Sting, Steamboat, Funk (in America), Rhodes, Windham, Road Warrior Hawk, S. Steiner, Vader, Hogan, Kerry Von Erich, Brody, Terry Taylor, Butch Reed, and so many more their greatest single matches, ever. In the 80's, Flair could have a **** with anyone. Has had the most **** matches out of any other American wrestler, might even challenge some of the great puroresu god's like Misawa, Kobashi, Tsuruta, Kawada, etc.

 

2. Shawn Michaels - Still puts out MOTYC. Gave the WWF it's last great matches (against Benjamin, and Angle), carried Hogan to a near **** match, his part in the two three ways in '04, his single matches with Benoit in '04, his SummerSlam and 12/29/03 matches with HHH, his WrestleMania 19 match with Jericho (should have jobbed to Jericho here), gave Kane his last great singles match, etc. He's carried some of the worst wrestlers to their greatest matches, like Diesel, Sid, Razor, Jarrett, soon to be Vince McMahon. He takes so many ridiculous bumps, and sells like a champ (sometimes, lately he hasn't). Gave Undertaker his greatest match, one of Foley's best, Vader's best in the WWF, great matches with Davey Boy and Owen Hart

 

3. Steve Austin - 2001 was Austin's year. MOTYC with HHH, Rock, Benoit, Angle, tag with HHH against Jericho / Benoit. He was amazing. He gave the Rock his greatest match. Had some of the best WWF matches with HHH, Rock, Bret Hart, Benoit, his tag with HHH vs. Benoit/Jericho, Angle, Foley. Seemed capable of pulling a entertaining and classic match out at any given time.

 

 

4. Bret Hart - Gave Davey Boy Smith, O. Hart, Hennig, Piper, Hakushi. Had several ****1/2 + matches in the WWF in the 1990's. Carried Diesel to his second greatest match, one of Undertaker's finest, some of Michaels best ('92 SurSer).

 

Talkers:

 

1. Steve Austin - When he talked, you listened. He could do it all on the mic, be serious, have comedy, make you think, etc.

 

2. Ric Flair - So smooth, intense, and just incredible.

 

3. Shawn Michaels - His sometimes shoot style mic skills were good. One of the best in his original era of talkers.

 

4. Bret Hart - Showed instances where he was good, but not too often.

 

Wrestlers:

 

1. Steve Austin - He's more well known, a better draw, revolutionized pro wrestling, unique gimmick, entertaining, one of a kind wrestler.

 

2. Ric Flair - Wrestling wouldn't be what it is today if it wasn't for Flair, there would be a lot of great matches missing. He kept the NWA alive in the 1980's, and WCW alive in the '90's.

 

3. Shawn Michaels - Controversial, unique, showstopping wrestler. Raised the bar on big bumps and spots in gimmick matches, was, and still is capable of carrying anyone to a great match when he wants to.

 

4. Bret Hart - Kept the WWF alive in the '90's, part of the most controversial shoot angle ever, had some of the best matches in the WWF during his stint, however, his WCW stay killed his legacy in my opinion.

 

Results: (1st place vote = 20 points - 2nd place vote = 15 points - 3rd place vote = 10 points - 4th place vote = 5 points)

 

Tied for 1st Place with 50 points, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair.

 

3rd Place with 35 points "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels.

 

4th Place with 15 points Bret "the Hitman" Hart.

 

Hawk, I'll do your list tomorrow.

[JST 0]

I, um, simmed these four in a Fatal 4 Way in Day Of Reckoning 2.

 

Bret won with the Sharpshooter on Austin.

[pochorenella 0]

I, um, simmed these four in a Fatal 4 Way in Day Of Reckoning 2.

 

Bret won with the Sharpshooter on Austin.

 

Well, that settles it, then.

[theintensifier 0]

Bryan Danielson, vs. Paul London, 2/3 falls

 

Dean Malenko, vs. Eddy Guerrero, ECW, 4/15/95 I think was the date

 

Kurt Angle, vs. Chris Benoit, Royal Rumble 2003

 

Owen Hart, vs. Bret Hart, WM X

 

Worker:

 

1. Kurt Angle. Has a wider body of great matches with small, medium, and larger wrestlers. Is one of the best in the world right now.

 

2. Bryan Danielson. Pumps out **** matches like he owns them.

 

3. Owen Hart. Watch him in Japan. He's so low because his great matches were so far inbetween each other.

 

4. Dean Malenko. He's a great worker, but was way to inconsistant for me. Had some great matches with Eddy in ECW, some good ones with Benoit, Rey Jr., some Japan work as well.

 

Talkers:

 

1. Kurt Angle. Easily.

 

2. Bryan Danielson. From what I've seen, it's better than the others.

 

3. Owen Hart. Eh, annoying voice, just sucked on the mic.

 

4. Dean Malenko. I don't recall hearing a promo from him.

 

Wrestlers:

 

1. Kurt Angle. Simply one of the best, ever.

 

2. Bryan Danielson. One of the best, right now.

 

3. Owen Hart. Died for wrestling.

 

4. Dean Malenko. Very forgetable.

 

Sorry, had to rush this.

[Guest Rrrsh]

Shawn - Taker Badd Blood

Flair - Savage WrestleMania VIII

Bret - Owen WM X

Austin - with HHH vs Jericho and Benoit, RAW 01

 

Workers

1. Shawn

2. Bret

3. Flair

4. Austin

 

Talkers

1. Flair

2. Austin

3. Shawn

4. Bret

 

Overall

1. Shawn

2. Flair

3. Bret

4. Austin

[The Kid 0]

As workers:

 

1. Bret

2. HBK

3. Austin

4. Flair

 

As talkers:

 

1. Flair

2. HBK

3. Austin

4. Bret

 

Overall:

 

1. Bret

2. HBK

3. Austin

4. Flair

 

 

...I'll think of the matches later, I'm tired and kinda drunk, so give me time.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Best matches

 

Bret Hart -- Totally up in the air. I could name about 10

 

Ric Flair -- Up in the air

 

Austin -- Vs Benoit from Edmonton

 

Michaels -- Up in the air

 

 

As workers

 

 

Bret Hart without a shadow of a doubt -- I'm still loving that handheld Yokozuna cage match I saw. What a match

 

Ric Flair

 

Austin

 

Michaels

 

The last 3 are pretty close. I like Michaels' tag work the best of the 3.

 

 

 

 

As Talkers

 

Bret Hart who's one of the most underrated talkers ever

 

Ric Flair

 

Austin

 

Michaels though I got a mixed feelings on placing him here

 

Overall

 

 

Bret Hart

 

Ric Flair

 

Austin

 

Michaels

[The Buzz 0]

Worker- Bret Hart

Shawn Michaels

Ric Flair

Steve Austin

 

Talker-Steve Austin

Ric Flair

Bret Hart(who is indeed a very underrated talker, but still not better than the above two)

Shawn Michaels(I feel is overrated on the microphone.)

 

Overall-Bret Hart

Ric Flair

Steve Austin

Shawn Michaels