Marvel's Civil War

[Vampiro69 0]

When I first heard about the series I was skeptical. After hearing that the story revolves around the Superheroes having to give the government their secret identities, I was not impressed. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't DC do this story with the Justice Society where they were being forced by the Government to give up their ID's?

 

This just doesn't sound interesting to me, although I am probably in the minority on this storyline. Although, there is a mini-series coming out of this called the Illuminati written by Bendis, starring Iron Man, Prof. X, Black Bolt, Reed Richards, Namor, and someone else I am forgetting.

 

Also, has anyone else seen the new Spiderman costume yet?

[Ted the Poster 0]

Dr. Strange is the other Illuminati member.

[SuperJerk 0]

I'm calling for a moratorium on all Marvel cross-overs for at least 2 years. The stories aren't even that bad, but it just seems like asking their readers to follow one gigantic story every few months is tiresome. Didn't we just get finished with House of M? Enough already.

[ZGangsta 0]

Yeah, this whole thing appears to be another big "Universe-Shattering" storyline where the US gov is deciding that heroes need to 'register' their identities and then heroes start picking sides, families torn appart, teams divided, blah blah blah. It promises to be very political and make you think about your government's role in your life and other such "thought provoking" business. Now I'm definately not against writing comics that have a real applicable message, but it just seems that Marvel's already examining the whole "Government effect on super heroes" in The Ultimates and Squadron Supreme and doesn't need another giant crossover event to explore this theme.

Plus in the interviews I've read with the Marvel guys (Quesada, Bendis, etc), they keep going on about this "super hero registration" idea as if it's such a grand original idea. I don't know if you guys have read it, but there was a little story a couple decades back that dealt with that and its ramifications. It was called FUCKING WATCHMEN!

[Zorin Industries 0]

I'm actually far more interested in the Annilihation event happening very soon, seems like it could be an entertaining Cosmic romp

[Guest treecelightning]

So, anyone else read New Avengers: Illuminati? I wasn't really interested in the upcoming Civil War Series, but after reading this one, I'm definately going to pick it up. I thought it was an incredible read.

[ZGangsta 0]

So, anyone else read New Avengers: Illuminati? I wasn't really interested in the upcoming Civil War Series, but after reading this one, I'm definately going to pick it up. I thought it was an incredible read.

Yeah I read Illuminati (didn't buy it) and it was more interesting than I thought. There was absolutely no reason to label it as a 'New Avengers' book as they had nothing to do with the story (except Iron Man). I'm still not interested in this Civil War, but I did like that one book. However, I was disapointed that all it really showed was the forming of the group and their downfall. It would have been nice to see some of the effect they had on the Marvel Universe in the past.

 

I also read Annilihation: Prologue and Annilihation: Silver Surfer #1 (also didn't buy them) and they bored the hell out of me. Which is too bad because that series actually interested me when I heard about it.

[Renegade 0]

Is this in the wake of the mutant thing? Which was in the wake of House of M? Which was in the wake of Avengers disasembled?

[Jonathon 0]

Millar's got a nice big ole interview up on Newsarama. Pt.2 of the interview is interesting, regarding "civil war". Check it.

[JasonX 0]

Is this in the wake of the mutant thing? Which was in the wake of House of M? Which was in the wake of Avengers disasembled?

 

It's more Bendis, Millar, Heinberg, and Quesada shitting on fans who like characters (IE The New Warriors and Alpha Flight) that the four shits hate.

 

The New Warriors are massacred along with a large amount of civilians by Nitro, the living bomb villain who's mostly known for accidentally giving the original Captain Marvel cancer. But rather than recasting Nitro as a Dr Light type bad-ass and play up bringing Nitro to justice and the heroes being divided between those who want to kill Nitro and those who want to catch him and put him on trial for killing the New Warriors and let the legal system deal with him, the plotline is taken into the direction that everyone blames the New Warriors for being fuck-ups and are blamed instead of Nitro for the civilian deaths Nitro causes. This causes the US government to declare that every single super-hero in the Marvel Universe must reveal their secret ID to the US Government and register under a new Super-Hero Registration Act. In favor of the act is Iron Man and the T-Bolts and opposing it is Captain America and the FF.

 

That said, LITG Rich Johnston has spoiled the ending to the whole series as the whole point apparantly is:

 

Iron Man and the pro-registration heroes win and Captain America and a group of heroes who refuse to register fleeing to Canada and becoming the new Alpha Flight, which Millar will be writing.

[Molotov The Bear 0]

Is this in the wake of the mutant thing? Which was in the wake of House of M? Which was in the wake of Avengers disasembled?

 

Yes.

 

This isnt just a "new, life-shattering event every couple months." It's one gigantic story all tied into each other, going all the way back to Disassambled. And after hearing some of the rumors of the after-effects of the "war," I for am interested.

[ZGangsta 0]

Is this in the wake of the mutant thing? Which was in the wake of House of M? Which was in the wake of Avengers disasembled?

 

It's more Bendis, Millar, Heinberg, and Quesada shitting on fans who like characters (IE The New Warriors and Alpha Flight) that the four shits hate.

 

The New Warriors are massacred along with a large amount of civilians by Nitro, the living bomb villain who's mostly known for accidentally giving the original Captain Marvel cancer. But rather than recasting Nitro as a Dr Light type bad-ass and play up bringing Nitro to justice and the heroes being divided between those who want to kill Nitro and those who want to catch him and put him on trial for killing the New Warriors and let the legal system deal with him, the plotline is taken into the direction that everyone blames the New Warriors for being fuck-ups and are blamed instead of Nitro for the civilian deaths Nitro causes. This causes the US government to declare that every single super-hero in the Marvel Universe must reveal their secret ID to the US Government and register under a new Super-Hero Registration Act. In favor of the act is Iron Man and the T-Bolts and opposing it is Captain America and the FF.

 

That said, LITG Rich Johnston has spoiled the ending to the whole series as the whole point apparantly is:

 

Iron Man and the pro-registration heroes win and Captain America and a group of heroes who refuse to register fleeing to Canada and becoming the new Alpha Flight, which Millar will be writing.

In NA: Illuminati Reed Richards sided with Iron Man FOR cooperating with the US gov.

That Cap running to Canada to form a new Alpha Flight rumour was unfounded and Millar shoots it down in part 2 of that Newsarama interview. He says: "To answer the first, no, Cap doesn’t flee for Canada because that's just bloody stupid and completely out of character."

And I can see disliking Quesada and Bendis because they come across like arrogant shits a lot of the time, but Millar's always seemed cool. Plus he's an amazing writer.

 

So Civil War's starting to interest me a bit more after reading those Millar interviews, but I agree that the main Marvel universe is suffering from 'Earth-shattering crossover fatigue.' It's hard to accept Millar when he says that this will set the tone for Marvel for years to come, since that's the same rhetoric that Bendis spouted off like every day before and during Dissasembled and House of M.

The problem for me is that none of the books have any breathing room. It's like:

-Get 10 issues out

-Spend 4-6 issues in crossover

-Spend a few issues dealing with 'gigantic fallout'

-Repeat

Marvel almost needs a DC One-Year-Later type approach where they can just set a status quo and start developing good stories that will last for the forseeable future.

[SuperJerk 0]

This isnt just a "new, life-shattering event every couple months." It's one gigantic story all tied into each other, going all the way back to Disassambled.

I see how House of M and Disassembled fit together, but I'm not seeing how Civil War is part of the same story as House of M.

[Steviekick 0]

Getting back to the issue of why the New Warriors are getting the blame for this and not necessarily a bad thing. It's much more appropriate for this story. Simply put, the New Warriors fucked up big time. But it wasn't that they fucked up trying to do good. They fucked up while trying to film there TV show.

 

They fucked up trying to get TV ratings up, not for the purpose of doing good. This falls into the whole J. Johan Jameson "super heroes are a public menace" rhetoric that they've been doing forever. They are even doing a "newspaper" style issue of The Pulse like they did for House of M, which will propably be filled with slanted anti-independent hero stuff.

 

Marvel couldn't do the Dr. Light/Debate angle, as they kinda did that at the beginning of House of M when the Avengers and X-Men got together.

[Molotov The Bear 0]

This isnt just a "new, life-shattering event every couple months." It's one gigantic story all tied into each other, going all the way back to Disassambled.

I see how House of M and Disassembled fit together, but I'm not seeing how Civil War is part of the same story as House of M.

 

Because House of M happened in the 616 universe. It wasnt some "alternate reality" like AoA or Heroes reborn, it was right then and there. House of M brought the reality crashing down at the US govt's doors that there are some crazy ass people out there. Ok, they should've know that already, but HoM reenforced that idea, which lead to the rebirth of the Sentinels program, which is leading to the new regisitration act, which is the main focus of Civil War.

 

Wanda losing her mind is going to end up ruining life for_everyone_super powered being around.

[ZGangsta 0]

Getting back to the issue of why the New Warriors are getting the blame for this and not necessarily a bad thing. It's much more appropriate for this story. Simply put, the New Warriors fucked up big time. But it wasn't that they fucked up trying to do good. They fucked up while trying to film there TV show.

 

They fucked up trying to get TV ratings up, not for the purpose of doing good. This falls into the whole J. Johan Jameson "super heroes are a public menace" rhetoric that they've been doing forever. They are even doing a "newspaper" style issue of The Pulse like they did for House of M, which will propably be filled with slanted anti-independent hero stuff.

 

Marvel couldn't do the Dr. Light/Debate angle, as they kinda did that at the beginning of House of M when the Avengers and X-Men got together.

Good point about the New Warriors.

I'm getting a kind of Watchmen meets Kingdom Come feel so far. When Tony was talking about seeing future problems with the growing super powered community in Illuminati, the possible future from Kindom Come immediately came to mind. Except with Marvel heroes of course.

In fact, that whole New Warriors fight reminded me alot of the Kansas disaster in KC.

[Steviekick 0]

I read Illuminati and I thought it was propably the best talking head style comic I've read in quite some time.

[SuperJerk 0]

This isnt just a "new, life-shattering event every couple months." It's one gigantic story all tied into each other, going all the way back to Disassambled.

I see how House of M and Disassembled fit together, but I'm not seeing how Civil War is part of the same story as House of M.

 

Because House of M happened in the 616 universe. It wasnt some "alternate reality" like AoA or Heroes reborn, it was right then and there. House of M brought the reality crashing down at the US govt's doors that there are some crazy ass people out there. Ok, they should've know that already, but HoM reenforced that idea, which lead to the rebirth of the Sentinels program, which is leading to the new regisitration act, which is the main focus of Civil War.

So...reasons Civil War is related to House of M:

1) It took place on the same planet.

2) It scared people into being scared of something they were already scared of (people/the government fearful of super-heroes has been a theme at Marvel for almost its entire publishing history).

[Molotov The Bear 0]

What are you not understanding?

 

This is all explained in various interviews by the Marvel guys involved with the whole story on Newsarama and other sites.

 

Avengers: Disassembled- Wanda goes crazy, kills half the Avengers status quo and nearly destroys New York. Leading into...

 

House of M - The new Avengers/X-men decide they have to do something about Wanda. Quicksilver, in an effort to save his sister, who he loves dearly, convinces Wanda to use her powers to literally change reality, turning the world into Magneto's dreamscape where the Mutant's rule and the humans are the minority. At the end, eventually, everything goes back to "normal," but not without wanda's final wish.

 

"No More Mutants"

 

Wanda changed reality. And now, the US Government is pissed. The Sentinels were brought into the X-mansion supposedly to "protect them, during this big global-wide loss of powers.'"

 

Bullshit.

 

Their the X-men, they dont need protection.

 

No, the sentinels were really brought in to protect the US from the X-men, should anyone else decide to pull a 'Wanda.' See the 1st issue of Deadly Genesis for proof.

 

This "superhero registration act" is in response to Wanda's reality warp, which was in response to Disassembled. The US Gov't is scared, and their pissed, and their doing the only thing they feel they can do, by making every "superhero" place their identity in the open, in the sense that the Govt can "control" them.

 

The Gov't is really, really stupid in believing that, but that's more or less the point.

 

And am I the only one who's seeing the ginormous similarities to the "Days of Future Past" future?

[ZGangsta 0]

I think the sentiment that some people have (myself incuded) is that, sure House of M was the thing that prompted the government to take action, but it doesn't really have anything specifically to do with HoM. Any big superhero related disaster could have taken it's place. This Civil War storyline could have happened any time and still work. After Onlaught the registration act storyline could have taken place. I mean, Civil War taking place after HoM is belivable, but Marvel keeps saying the two are intrinsically linked, and I don't see that yet.

So if that makes any sense....

[Steviekick 0]

I think the sentiment that some people have (myself incuded) is that, sure House of M was the thing that prompted the government to take action, but it doesn't really have anything specifically to do with HoM. Any big superhero related disaster could have taken it's place. This Civil War storyline could have happened any time and still work. After Onlaught the registration act storyline could have taken place. I mean, Civil War taking place after HoM is belivable, but Marvel keeps saying the two are intrinsically linked, and I don't see that yet.

So if that makes any sense....

 

I bet the Quicksilver House of M followup will link some of this stuff up better.

[SuperJerk 0]

What are you not understanding?

Well...

 

I think the sentiment that some people have (myself incuded) is that, sure House of M was the thing that prompted the government to take action, but it doesn't really have anything specifically to do with HoM. Any big superhero related disaster could have taken it's place. This Civil War storyline could have happened any time and still work. After Onlaught the registration act storyline could have taken place. I mean, Civil War taking place after HoM is belivable, but Marvel keeps saying the two are intrinsically linked, and I don't see that yet.

So if that makes any sense....

 

That and the fact that super-hero registration/govt control of super-heroes (especially mutants) has been a running theme at Marvel since the 1960s. Sentinels in particular have been around since 1965, mutant registration was used in both "Days of Future Past" and 1987's "Fall of the Mutants". The government has been trying to control the Avengers since the 1970s (see also the 1980s Capt. America storyline when the Commision on Super-human Activities forced him to resign). The idea that the govt would want heroes to register is probably a natural conclusion to something that's been floating around for 40 years.

 

Marvel propaganda aside, because there's nothing in either storyline that substantially links the idea of Civil War to House of M, the behind Civil War seems like it was just tacked on to House of M to make it seem like Marvel was doing something to compete with the scope and scale of Infinite Crisis.

[Dr. Zaius 0]

After looking through the Civil War sketchbook, I'm looking forward to this series.

[ZGangsta 0]

Newsarama has an advance review of Civil War #1. It doen't really say anything about the story but it's a pretty favorable review. The art they show (which was from the new warriors fight that was already previewed in NA: Illuminati) looks really great. I've sort of turned around on this series. I was all ready to hate it, as I really didn't like the concept originally, but the implementation has been pretty good thus far, and I really like Millar as a writer (plus the art looks awesome), so I'm willing to give it a chance. I'm still not super psyched about the concept.

 

Best Shots “Fort Sumter” Edition

With J. Caleb Mozzocco and Troy Brownfield

 

Greetings, everyone. Troy Brownfield here. Best Shots regular J. Caleb Mozzocco and I had the opportunity to get an advance look at the first issue of Marvel’s big summer event, Civil War. Considering the size of the event and the fairly seismic changes that it promises for the Marvel Universe, we’re taking the opportunity to give you, the readers of Newsarama, a pair of advance reviews. So, please read and enjoy, and come back Monday for your regularly scheduled Best Shots, wherein we lose a team member!

 

But enough prelude . . . the war is on . . .

Civil War #1

From: Marvel

Writer: Mark Millar

Art: Steve McNiven and Dexter Vines

Colors: Morry Hollowell

Letters: VC – Chris Eliopoulos

Review by J. Caleb Mozzocco

 

It’s hard, if not downright impossible, to experience big comic book event stories like Civil War in a vacuum; to divest yourself of the company hype, Internet griping, lead-in stories and your own prejudices about such events and crack open the cover of the first issue and experience it with fresh eyes.

 

At least, it usually is. But it wasn’t with Civil War #1.

 

By the time I got to the heroes’ first meeting about the event that sparks the titular conflict—which you’ve probably already read in the short preview that was included in Wizard and books like the New Avengers: Illuminati special—I had forgotten all of those reservations and was pretty well swept in.

 

That in and of itself is a pretty remarkable accomplishment on writer Mark Millar’s part, considering the Big Event Story burnout so many of us readers are suffering from. After over a year of DC Universe-wide stories and Marvel’s House of M and Decimation related stories, a huge crossover event doesn’t sound all that appealing. Reading the last line uttered in the last panel, I was already pumped for Civil War #2-#7 .

 

This may be a big, huge superhero crossover, but it still feels rather intimate, like it’s a family squabble brewing rather than something that will engulf a multiverse or a whole species. That’s no doubt helped along by the fact that all of the players, from the Avengers to the Fantastic Four to Spidey, Daredevil and Dr. Strange, live in the same city. It’s not that hard for all of Marvel’s heroes to get together to have a conversations like this.

 

Millar is really the perfect writer for this too, in part because he’s simply not Brian Michael Bendis. Simply put, I’m getting almost as burnt out on Bendis’ big superhero stories as I am on event stories, having read the disappointing House of M (an emotional wallop, but one lacking in actual walloping), months of The New Avengers (see previous parenthetical comment) and the Illuminati special (ditto).

 

No one can accuse Millar of ever failing to bring the action, which he does in a fantastic wordless scene halfway through. That widescreen feeling of his best Authority and Ultimates story is firing on all cylinders here (And is there a better compliment for McNiven’s work than that it doesn’t make you miss Frank Quitely or Brian Hitch?), and it’s wonderful to see Millar finally get to play with such a big, huge Marvel cast.

 

Bendis’ weaknesses—action scenes, cliffhangers, endings—are Millar’s strengths. Now, I don’t mean to pick on Bendis here, it’s just he’s been responsible for a lot of the build-up to this event, and thus a lot of reader reservations, reservations which Millar is pre-positioned to obliterate.

 

If you have a hard time seeing the U.S. government seeking to regulate superheroes at this point in Marvel history, or Tony Stark and the Fantastic Four toeing the government’s line on the matter, or Captain America rebelling against the U.S. government, you shouldn’t after this issue—several very pointed tirades and events make the positions the heroes start to take here seem incredibly natural, if not inevitable.

 

Millar is also quite fleet when it comes to making this story feel relevant, with it’s obvious parallels to our own culture. The Marvel Universe president and his cabinet arequite clearly the same as ours, but 616 Bush isn’t portrayed as the boob he was during his appearances in, say, Millar’s Ultimates or Garth Ennis’ Marvel Knights Punisher . Millar evokes and half alludes to real world events like 9/11 and Cindy Sheehan’s protests without judging them, making the proceedings feel realistic but not didactic.

 

The issue at hand—whether heroes should be employed and regulated by the government like soldiers and law enforcement officials or operate like masked vigilantes—is a fundamental one to the superhero genre, and it doesn’t really have any clear answer (Hell, how long has the Daily Bugle been recycling that “Spider-Man: Hero or Menace?” headline?).

 

Cap, the FF and the previously outed and well-beloved heroes like them may not be affected, but if Spider-Man or Daredevil started giving up their Ids to the government, how long before everyone they had ever even talked to is killed?

 

I don’t know exactly how well this book will age, as it is so heavily steeped in post-9/11 American zeitgeist and dates itself with certain elements (the New Warriors’ reality show, Spidey’s temporary maroon duds and extra arms). But so far, so good: This isn’t just a great superhero action drama, it’s an important superhero action drama.

 

Whose side are you on? I’m quite happy to be on the outside looking in, thanks.

 

 

Civil War #1: Troy’s take: Caleb’s overall sentiments match mine in every important respect. Simply put, Civil War explodes out of the box, showering the reader with equal parts intellectual debate, intensely emotional characterization, and driving action.

 

This first issue starts in high gear, and doesn’t let up. Caleb evoked the “widescreen” chestnut, and I’ll follow up by talking about the idea of the “prelim slammer”. That used to be the term that some filmmakers (particularly those behind the Bond franchise) used to refer to the pre-credit action sequence, that bit that sets the larger plot in motion. The “prelim slammer” here doesn’t just bring casual readers up to speed with the New Warriors (pathetically pimping their adventures to reality TV), it sets the stage for a tragedy of staggering consequence.

 

Mark Millar has demonstrated time and again that he’s that gifted type of writer that can seize the cultural climate and make it work for the story that he’s trying to tell. He’s mined that terrain successfully with both installments of The Ultimates as well as The Authority. Here, Millar merges the longstanding fears that have percolated among the human populace in Marvel books for decades with the lingering after-effects of September 11th and the War on Terror. The paranoia, the misdirected anger, and the leaps in judgment all seem so real because we’ve actually borne witness to different versions of those concepts in the past five years.

 

Simultaneously, Millar takes what I thought would be the hardest selling point (making the antagonism between the heroes believable enough to escalate to war) and pulls it off flawlessly. Captain America fans will be particularly impressed; in fact, I suspect that the star-spangled Avenger might win over a few new ones. Millar makes the most out of Steve Rogers. The character doesn’t just blindly follow America; he follows what America SHOULD be, and that’s a critical difference. Of course, it helps that Cap moves from principle to power in a stellar action sequence that shows artist Steve McNiven blowing the doors (or cockpit, as it were) off the place.

 

More on McNiven: this is the work of his career thus far. I knew that he was good, but you haven’t seen anything in his prior work that quite prepares you for the level of detail and dynamism that he brings to this book. It’s a quantum advancement, especially since he contends with about three-dozen characters, a variety of crowd scenes, and two major action sequences. And not to spend too much time on one character, but his Captain America alone is tremendous.

 

I admit that I was skeptical about the premise, but Millar absolutely nails the set-up. There are a lot of questions to be answered and allegiances to be decided, and I’m still firmly convinced that it’s not all as simple as it seems. Be that as it may, Civil War #1 is well worth your comic dollar; it’s a large-scale event, but the themes it embraces are so much bigger.

 

Troy and Caleb will be back with the rest of the Best Shots team on Monday. Be there. Or would that be, be here?

[pochorenella 0]

Interesting to say the least. Surprised to see such positives reviews after everyone being on DC-rules-Marvel-sucks mode lately, so I'll try to pick it up.

[SuperJerk 0]

Captain America showed once again why he's my favorite Marvel character.

[Justice 0]

Wow. Civil War had literally NO connection to House of M. At all. Nada. Zip. Minueto. Zero.

 

Grrrrrrrr.

 

Anyways, I thought it was okay, but it seems like I've already read this before. I didn't like some of the scenes, like all the heroes in one spot. I hate the 'group discussion' comic thing. I thought that the entire argument would have come out better in individual conversations rather than just gathering all together.

 

The Watcher's appearance seems forced. UH OH, GONNA BE A BIG EVENT! I wish they had, well, done something with him or had some real purpose for him being there (Ala Pariah in VU/IC) rather than just having him as a cameo.

 

The whole thing seems... Forced, really. I don't know how else to put it. It seems like all these guys are just... there, and things are happening, regardless of what happened before. I don't remember any sort of reference to House of M or its consequences. It's a lot more focused than IC 1, but ultimately it seems a lot more rushed, and I don't like that.

 

I have to say, though, I enjoyed the art. Marvel always had the market on 'realistic' art, and I really loved it.

Edited May 4, 2006 by Justice

[SuperJerk 0]

Yeah, what gives? The big horrific tragedy that neccesitated the government crack-down was

a super-villian blowing up an elementary school

. This isn't "one big story". Its Marvel trying to milk its readers' pockets.

 

Still, Capt. America = beyond cool.

[tekcop 0]

I guess I'm the only one that marked out for Nighthawk's appearance? Man, I loved the Defenders.

[pochorenella 0]

Didn't Nighthawk die quite a few years back? Or am I thinking Squadron Supreme version?