Make an outlandish statement

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

We used to have this in other folders (I remember the thread in the music folder the most) and it always led to good debate. The premise is fairly simple; make a statement that you know goes against popular opinion, put it as matter-of-factly as you can, and then be prepared to debate with all the people that disagreed with you. It got really good some of the other times I saw it, and I'm pretty sure this type of thread goes back to the old smarks board days, I don't know for sure though. I'll go first to get the ball rolling.

 

Tito Ortiz is not a boring fighter. To the contrary, he actually makes for quite exciting fights most of the time.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

BJ Penn would choke out Matt Hughes again in the rematch.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Tito's fight against Cote and Matyushenko were pretty boring (granted, it's been a few years since I saw the Vladdy fight). However, his fights against Shamrock, Griffin, Belfort, Shamrock, Couture, Mezger were very entertaining. However, does that make Tito an exciting fighter? Was it him that made those fights exciting? I think that's debatable.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

BJ Penn would choke out Matt Hughes again in the rematch.

 

I appreciate your enthusiasm for the topic but you have to let there be some debate for each statement before making a new one.

 

I think most would agree that Tito has had more exciting fights than not, the question like RRR said is whether or not he is the cause. Personally, I would have to say that he is. His aggressive style made the matches vs. Bohlander, Mezger x2, Sinosic, and Ken Shamrock good. I don't think you can deny that.

 

Against Griffin and Belfort, he delivered some exciting GnP as well as pushing the pace constantly. The drama of the fight itself helped, but his role in those fights cannot be denied. Maybe his cardio failed in the second one, but that has to do with injury, as well as the fact that he still made the fight exciting. It's not just on Forrest for that fight.

 

Against Couture he was dominated so it's hard to say how much of a hand he had in the fight. However I will say that he still tried to win the fight and never gave up throughout its entirety, from bell to embarrassing bell. Against Frank Shamrock, he did try to push the pace until he gassed, at which point he lost. These fights are hard to judge, because from a technical standpoint they might not be that exciting, since there was little damage delivered from the guy on top in both. However, both had great drama and excitement, and were more chess matches than anything else. This is why they were exciting, and Tito's role in both can't really be discounted.

 

Also, further proof to the claim that Tito is an exciting fighter is the fact that he has had other matches where he has won fairly quickly. This shows that he is still looking to finish the fight and push the pace, and is not exactly content to stall. Matches against Tanner, Albritton and Kondo prove this point.

 

Tito has proven to bring it and has been involved in some of the most exciting fights in UFC history. I don't think that this is just coincidence, although a lot of the excitement for some of these matches stems from the heat surrounding it. Still, even with the 'volume turned off' these matches still hold up as being great.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Alistair Overeem will not beat another top 10 HW.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Already proven wrong.

 

Oh wait you said top 10. Never mind. Still funny. I'll get into actually arguing your point later.

[Lei Tong 0]

Takanori Gomi has submission skills cmparable to Kevin Jordan.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Takanori Gomi has submission skills cmparable to Kevin Jordan.

 

I don't think that's too far fetched. Kawajiri is the only top fighter he's submitted and that was because Crusher was on dream street by the time he locked the choke in.

 

Here's another statement: Joachim Hansen is slightly overrated.

[starvenger 0]

Reverend Sick is Lei Tong's bitch.

 

I hate to dump on my fellow IP columist, but well, it's been true of late.

[Lei Tong 0]

Oh, man. I didn't think anyone else knew about that except for YPOV.

 

I think he may have missed the point of many things I mentioned (okay, you've watched UFC from the beginning, but only a fraction of information about most fighters can be obtained from strictly from that), so I'll be leaving the poor guy alone.

 

Two things worth noting on that subject:

- Even as I tried to sound cordial in my response I came off like a prick. Correct, but a prick.

- The TUF recapper chick at IP actually seems to have a decent head for MMA on her shoulders.

[starvenger 0]

Oh, man. I didn't think anyone else knew about that except for YPOV.

I read a lot of the columns there. Support your website and all that.

 

Two things worth noting on that subject:

- Even as I tried to sound cordial in my response I came off like a prick. Correct, but a prick.

I thought you sounded the way you normally do here. No big deal as far as I'm concerned.

 

- The TUF recapper chick at IP actually seems to have a decent head for MMA on her shoulders.

Yes, but will readers hit on her (virtually speaking) with the regularity that TSM posters seem to hit on Leena?

[Lei Tong 0]

- Even as I tried to sound cordial in my response I came off like a prick. Correct, but a prick.

I thought you sounded the way you normally do here. No big deal as far as I'm concerned.

 

I guess I was hoping to sound a bit less asshole-ish if there was a chance a number (more than on a forum, for example) might be reading the e-mail. You know, tact and all that.

 

- The TUF recapper chick at IP actually seems to have a decent head for MMA on her shoulders.

Yes, but will readers hit on her (virtually speaking) with the regularity that TSM posters seem to hit on Leena?

 

I'm not too keen on who Leena is, though I doubt your average person reading a TUF recap on a random website will be able to tell the difference between her writing and... stuff that gets posted at mma-snark.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The Middleweight division is about as lackluster as the Heavyweight division right now"

 

You've GOT to be kidding me. To me, the UFC MW division is probably the best one in MMA right now (which, btw, is my outlandish statement).

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Where'd you read that? That sounds pretty stupid.

 

Anyways I disagree, the UFC WW division is still better I think. They are similar, since both have a multitude of prospects and good fighters. They both have a large amount of guys to change around, but at least the WW division has bigger stars, in the sense that they are truly dominant. There is a set hierarchy in the UFC WW division, which makes it more important. You will never get a Hogan/Andre type match like you would in the UFC WW division. A rematch between two guys where everyone thinks the second match will go differently. Some say that time was running out in the first round, and that submission would not happen again. That he wasn't properly prepared the first time, and that this time he will smash his opponent. Some still say that they are the two P4P best fighters on the planet, and hopefully when they fight all questions will be answered.

 

Thought I was talking about GSP-Hughes II? I was referring to Hughes-Penn II. THAT is why it's the best.

 

The UFC WW division, where only the storylines are deeper than the talent.

[Lei Tong 0]

It also has Koscheck. KOSCHECK.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

KAUUUUUUUUS CHEHHHHHHHHHHHHCK

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Compared with the MW Division, that has TRAVIS LOOOOOOOOOOOOTERRRRRRRRRRRRR

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

MW is way more competitive beyond the top 3, though. P4P the top 3 in the UFC's WW division is better than the MW division top 10, but I don't think that is enough to say that the division is better. To me, MW has more potential matches than WW. Plus, BJ wants to move up to 185.

[Lei Tong 0]

Dude... Koscheck, Parisyan, Thompson, Alves, Noble, Sanchez, Fitch, Burkman, Cummo, Goulet, Neer...

[AboveAverage484 0]

Here's a few more that may not be that outlandish:

 

Cro Cop should have gotten the decision over Hunt.

 

Gary Goodridge vs. Naoya Ogawa was a work.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Dude... Koscheck, Parisyan, Thompson, Alves, Noble, Sanchez, Fitch, Burkman, Cummo, Goulet, Neer...

 

It's gotten deep enough to the point where we don't need to bring up Fickett or Diaz or Lytle or the other guys that routinely come in and put on a good show.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I thoguht the Ogawa fight was a work too, but I still say Hunt deeserved the decision. He was constantly pushing the action and damaged Cro Cop more than he damaged Hunt. The high kick was nice, but in the end it didn't really do as much hurting as what Hunt did to Cro Cop.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

How in the world should Mirko have won that fight?

 

Hunt pressed the action. Hunt controlled the pace, and the action. Mirko freaking RAN AWAY from Hunt when Hunt just walked through everything. Hunt re-exposed Mirko's flaw in fighting that he has to fix, in that he cannot fight well when the opponent pressures him. Fedor used that against him, and Hunt did aswell. If you don't let Mirko come forward, and set himself up for the KO shots, he panics now. Why that is...I don't know, but it happened in both the Fedor, and Hunt fights.

 

Mirko hit probably the most stuff, but Hunt completely no-sold everything like he was the Terminator. Atleast Fedor stumbled, Hunt just kept coming, and more then once rocked Mirko himself. If i remember right, Hunt even started practically begging Mirko to not run away...then got pissed and charged him.

 

I love Mirko, and so does PRIDE, but Hunt completely won that fight in just about every possible regard.

 

Edit: I'll throw out my own comment....If Bob Sapp hadn't went to K-1, and devoted himself 100% to MMA, he'd be PRIDE Heavyweight champion, and a near unstoppable juggernaut. His training has been completely botched by K-1, and they've continually thrown him to the wolves with little time to prepare. Sapp went from someone who had near limitless potential at the start, to a washed up "kickboxer" Who didn't know how to friggin kick!

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

The welterweight division has American Top Team standout Thiago Alves.

 

The middleweight division has American Top Team dropout Thiago (Conc)alves

[Lei Tong 0]

Sapp could train for 5 years and still get his head punted off by a strong wrestler like Fujita.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Sapp could train for 5 years and still get his head punted of by a strong wrestler like Fujita.

 

That...happened?

[Lei Tong 0]

x5

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Sapp gave Nogueria all kinds of problems just months into his training. With enough time (aka not one week before fight due to all kinds of insane press related shit), Sapp could have been insanely dominate.

 

My point is, Sapp has never been allowed time to actually train before a fight without being trotted out like a show-pony for the Japanese media. His career as a fighter is all kinds of fucked because of it too.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I knew I should have wrote "MW has more competitive matches".

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

x5

 

With another year of training Sapp could beat Fedor in two seconds.

 

In all honesty, pull Karelin out of Parliament and he wipes the floor with Bob Sapp.