Who is the defining artist of this generation?

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

Eminem is top 5 dead or alive emcees, period.

 

He will go down as one of the best, other then most of the final part of his career. He could come back once he gets his shit straightened out though.

 

But, he's not the defining artist of Hip-Hop for this generation, never mind all of music.

 

Without 2Pac, there would be no Eminem.

 

2Pac influenced Biggie's style, Biggie influenced an entire coast along with Nas, 2Pac took his own NY style, blended it with the Death Row West Coast sound (before he even signed with Suge), and 2Pac and Biggie have influenced every emcee since then, even ones that were already around.

 

Those two changed Hip-Hop, for better or worse, into what it was untill Lil' Jon got the Crunk thing goin', now it's all about the South.

 

But those artists are influenced by Big and Pac as well.

 

Big's catalogue isn't big enough to qualify him over 2Pac.

 

So, I still go with 2Pac.

[Guest Felonies!]

Go into a record store. Pop-slash-rock composes the majority of the racks in the store. Another section is for rap-slash-R&B, another for country.

 

Bulletproof argument.

God, am I gonna piss off every touchy white liberal by Friday or what? To say that pop and rock account for the majority of mainstream releases is not an outrageous claim. If I left rap out and said in spite of high record sales and critical acclaim, our defining artist couldn't come out of Nashville and just left it at that, you wouldn't care. If rap was more important than rock, why is rap relegated to just a few shelves in the store while rock and manufactured pop have the lion's share?

 

Yhat's insinuating that pop and rock are one genre though. Fall Out Boy is different from Broken Social Scene, is different from Radiohead, is different from U2, is different from Kelly Clarkson.

Yes. Those are all different. But for the sake of putting shit on shelves, Britney Spears is next to Soundgarden. It's just the way it is.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

This is true in some record store, usually bigger chain stores.

 

Some record stores, chain or mom and pop shop, still seperate the two.

 

Walmart, Target and places like that always have them lumped together.

 

It's because rock and pop are played on the same stations, once hip-hop starts getting played next rock and pop even more, then I think the whole goddamn record store will be one big A-Z, with Country setting off to the side.

[Guest Felonies!]

But what happens when some country guys get some crossover hits? HELL IN A HANDBASKET!

 

I dunno. Independent stores, Sam Goody/Musicland (when they were around), Best Buy, Circuit City, Borders, Barnes & Noble all use the admittedly silly "pop/rock" designation and then start going into niches from there: rap/R&B, country, dance, jazz/new age (THAT one bugs me), world music. Only Wal-Mart seems to dump it all into one big A-Z, because the focus of the store is not selling albums. But anyway, this whole thing is getting really silly, we're going in circles here. Back on topic: I don't think we have a defining artist. Radiohead is the closest we have and they haven't made the cut yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I basically just admitted I've shopped at Sam Goody. Yecch.

[The Man in Blak 0]

See I don't think Eminem belongs on here. He was extremely popular for a short period of time, but I don't think he made his mark on society the way a band like Nirvana or the others listed did. Are people still going to be talking about Eminem 15 years from now? Is "Hi, My Name is" going to be considered a classic song 15 years from now? I doubt it.

 

There was a good Spin Magazine article about Eminem a while ago - basically, he didn't make any culturally significant impact because all he did was relive Axl Rose's career. He followed it almost step-by-step. Both had enormous resent for their families and discussed it in songs, both made many homophobic comments, only to later perform with Elton John in "groundbreaking" performances. Both wanted to bury women in their backyard ("Used To Love Her" and "Cleaning Out My Closet"). Both attacked much weaker enemies than themselves to garner publicity (Axl vs. Vince Neil, Bob Guccione and Eminem vs. NSYNC and Moby).

 

But here's why I don't put Eminem up with those other bands, because Axl and GnR, whether you like them or not (and I know some here don't), made their mark because of their music first and foremost. Songs like "November Rain" and others will be remembered forever, and that is not the case with Eminem. Eminem has everything to compare with this "generation defining" bands except the music. He made music that was hot at the time, but it won't hold up long term - honestly, it barely even holds up NOW. His big songs like "Hi My Name is" and "The Real Slim Shady" are probably going to be laughed at decades from now.

 

Well, I agree with the second paragraph.

 

Guns 'n Roses is listed in the very first post in this thread as one of those "defining artists." If so much of Eminem's career parallels Axl Rose's trip to stardom, why would Eminem be dismissed as having any impact?

 

Never mind that Eminem was the first white rapper to obtain and sustain massive crossover success, which he had to accomplish despite the fact that Vanilla Ice had essentially put a moratorium on the very idea of a white guy doing rap. Never mind that he was the focal point behind a commercially and critically successful movie in 8 Mile.

 

You can say that rap is a niche genre that doesn't really have the cultural impact due to percentages of sales and you might have a valid point, but Eminem was miles away from being a typical representative of the genre, and that is precisely why he was so successful. There was a time in the late 90's and early 00's where you couldn't pick up Rolling Stone or some other pop culture magazine without seeing some mention of Eminem. For better or worse, he is probably music's most defining artist of that time period.

 

Kanye West falls into a similar realm as Eminem as well. Not only did he make the front pages with the controversial comments about George Bush during Katrina, but he's a wildly successful artist, both critically and commercially. He's got almost twenty grammy nominations after two albums, an absurd amount of singles that have charted, and a renowned reputation as a hip-hop producer to boot. Given that he's only been around a couple of years, I don't know if you can lump him in as a defining artist just yet, but as far as I'm concerned, he's on his way.

 

And yeah, Radiohead. The Pink Floyd comparison/implication that Inc made early on in the thread was spot on.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

I've addressed Eminem earlier, Kanye West is a whole other story.

 

Dude's like what Dr. Dre could be if he could write his own rhymes, and not put out an album every 10 years.

 

I still say Dre is a better producer then Kanye, though.

 

I'm still going with 2Pac. Without dude, hip-hop would not be what it has been for the past 10 years, which is the most popular genre of music.

[tominator89 0]

I'll throw a few names out for discussion:

 

- One artist, whose legacy seems to be growing each day, is Dimebag Darrell. It's unfortunate that he had to die, but it certainly is helping his status as it did for others before him.

 

- Korn and Green Day. I lump them both together because they have certainly influenced a lot of other bands to basically copy them.

 

- Dr. Dre. His resume is quite impressive having worked with NWA, Snoop, etc. What would Eminem's career have been if Dre was not a part of it?

 

- Boy bands. I know, they suck. But the post-grunge era resulted in all of these groups. Granted, they'll be laughed at in the future. I'd also include pop singers of the American Idol genre to be included in this.

[EricMM 0]

..

 

hip hop is the most popular genre of music?

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

If not Hip-hop, then what is?

 

Korn and Greenday can't possably be our defining artists, man.

 

And Dimebag Darrell was decent, beut c'mon...

 

And BoyBands?

 

 

What do you think, Snoop?

[Guest Felonies!]

You can say that rap is a niche genre that doesn't really have the cultural impact due to percentages of sales and you might have a valid point, but Eminem was miles away from being a typical representative of the genre, and that is precisely why he was so successful. There was a time in the late 90's and early 00's where you couldn't pick up Rolling Stone or some other pop culture magazine without seeing some mention of Eminem. For better or worse, he is probably music's most defining artist of that time period.

 

This is true, of course. Eminem was everywhere. But,

Eminem has everything to compare with this "generation defining" bands except the music. He made music that was hot at the time, but it won't hold up long term - honestly, it barely even holds up NOW. His big songs like "Hi My Name is" and "The Real Slim Shady" are probably going to be laughed at decades from now.

you didn't address that part. I think maybe "Stan" and "Lose Yourself" will be remembered as good songs, but he's got "what, my name, who, my name is, huh, my name is chicka-chicka Slim Shady" or however it went and "I'll sit next to Carson Daly and Fred Durst and hear them argue about who she gave head to first" in there dragging him down. That's shitty music for middle schoolers. Being a middle schooler at the time "The Real Slim Shady" came out, I would know. I found it hysterical. From a musical standpoint, I don't remember ever being too impressed with his beats, except the two songs I mentioned up there + "The Next Episode," which was also a hit when I was in 8th grade. Evidently, strings are badass.

 

But those are singles, what about albums? Did he have any one album that was a great cohesive work from start to finish? I wouldn't know, so I'm asking you guys. Lots of recent artists, including rappers, seem to take advantage of an 80-minute capacity in all the wrong ways and release like 78-minute albums when they don't need to. A quick scan of Em's discography shows running times of 60, 72, 77, and 78. I'm not really anal about albums never ever exceeding like 45 minutes, but that's way too much content. It all can't be that good.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

Yes, The Marshall Mathers LP is considered one of the best Hip-Hop albums of all time.

[Brett Favre 0]

The Eminem Show is really good too. I also think "The Way I Am" will be remembered as one of his better songs as well. He's had many good songs (Till I collapse, white america, square dance, marshall mathers, sing for the moment, soldier), and the real slim shady was a great pop song.

 

And hip hop all over the world is most popular.

[EricMM 0]

You all need to get off of Eminem's dick.

 

Really.

[The Man in Blak 0]

You can say that rap is a niche genre that doesn't really have the cultural impact due to percentages of sales and you might have a valid point, but Eminem was miles away from being a typical representative of the genre, and that is precisely why he was so successful. There was a time in the late 90's and early 00's where you couldn't pick up Rolling Stone or some other pop culture magazine without seeing some mention of Eminem. For better or worse, he is probably music's most defining artist of that time period.

 

This is true, of course. Eminem was everywhere. But,

Eminem has everything to compare with this "generation defining" bands except the music. He made music that was hot at the time, but it won't hold up long term - honestly, it barely even holds up NOW. His big songs like "Hi My Name is" and "The Real Slim Shady" are probably going to be laughed at decades from now.

you didn't address that part. I think maybe "Stan" and "Lose Yourself" will be remembered as good songs, but he's got "what, my name, who, my name is, huh, my name is chicka-chicka Slim Shady" or however it went and "I'll sit next to Carson Daly and Fred Durst and hear them argue about who she gave head to first" in there dragging him down. That's shitty music for middle schoolers. Being a middle schooler at the time "The Real Slim Shady" came out, I would know. I found it hysterical. From a musical standpoint, I don't remember ever being too impressed with his beats, except the two songs I mentioned up there + "The Next Episode," which was also a hit when I was in 8th grade. Evidently, strings are badass.

 

Even though it's got an almost one-hit-wonder quirk about it, "My Name Is" should probably qualify alongside "Stan" and "Lose Yourself" as being very strong singles, songs that you hear on Top 40 stations today. "The Real Slim Shady", "The Way I Am", "Without Me", "Forgot About Dre" (a collab with Dr. Dre, sure, but it still features Eminem prominently throughout) and maybe even "Guilty Conscience" could be considered to be stronger singles on the next tier down. To be frank, I can't attest to the impact of anything he did after The Eminem Show because I haven't bought the albums that followed it or listened to Top 40 radio or watched TRL in the last couple of years. But, just from those examples above, I think you can say that he's put together a strong run of singles, especially when you consider that his best three singles were massive crossover hits.

 

But those are singles, what about albums? Did he have any one album that was a great cohesive work from start to finish? I wouldn't know, so I'm asking you guys. Lots of recent artists, including rappers, seem to take advantage of an 80-minute capacity in all the wrong ways and release like 78-minute albums when they don't need to. A quick scan of Em's discography shows running times of 60, 72, 77, and 78. I'm not really anal about albums never ever exceeding like 45 minutes, but that's way too much content. It all can't be that good.

 

I think that some would argue that The Marshall Mathers LP is one of the best rap albums of that time period; VH1 dedicated their "classic album" show to it, whatever the fuck it's called - take that for what it's worth. If we're talking about adding album sales into the equation, The Slim Shady LP and The Eminem Show both sold very well, going 4x platinum and 8x platinum respectively. Given the rest of the competition during this time period (especially if you consider the length and output of a typical rapper's career), Eminem doesn't have a bad portfolio with albums either.

 

If you were going to put the argument on a rapper whose musical output doesn't quite match up with his cultural impact, Snoop Dogg would probably be a better target, in my opinion.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

From a musical standpoint, I don't remember ever being too impressed with his beats, except the two songs I mentioned up there + "The Next Episode," which was also a hit when I was in 8th grade. Evidently, strings are badass.

 

Next Episode was Dr. Dre. It had Snoop and Nate Dogg on it.

[Guest Felonies!]

Oh I was thinking of "Forgot About Dre." I get my early 2000 Dr. Dre duets confused.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Eminem is not Top 5 DOA. I can name atleast 10 MC's that are better then Em.

 

And Biggie was more influneced by Snoop Dogg, that he was 2Pac.

[EricMM 0]

I think I know 10 MC's better than Eminem.

 

At least 1.

 

Know.

[naiwf 0]

And there have been many better singers/songwriters than guys listed as the "defining" artists of previous generations, so who really gives a shit if Eminem is the best rapper of all time if he's still the guy that best represents the music industry over the last 5-10 years which is the point of this conversation.

 

Given that 90% of people wouldn't be able to name a Radiohead single, album or member of the band I find it laughable that you guys are suggesting that they're that important.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

It's time to stop posting in this thread, EricMM.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

Eminem inarguably made a significant cultural impact, but what kind of longevity do you think that impact has? His shoddy output over the last few years is doing damage to what could've been his long-term relevance.

 

A truly "defining" artist/musician will be something that affects the musical landscape decades from now. Radiohead has a better shot at that than Eminem. They just need something as massive as OK Computer and Kid A again.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

Of course, the way the music industry works now, there may never be another defining artist. The increasingly short attention span of record execs, radio programmers and the music-listening public are making it increasingly difficult to have another band reach legendary status.

[Brett Favre 0]

Even though he hasn't had a good CD after The Eminem Show, his work with 50 Cent, and G-Unit should help his case. But he needs another CD to solidify or help his argument.

[naiwf 0]

A truly "defining" artist/musician will be something that affects the musical landscape decades from now. Radiohead has a better shot at that than Eminem. They just need something as massive as OK Computer and Kid A again.

 

Not that I really care to argue, but in what way was OK Computer or Kid A "massive"? Each album only went platinum, and I don't think either album had a single that made any chart of note. Don't you have to have at least SOME commercial success to be a defining artist? I don't think Radiohead have sold more than 5 or 6 million albums in their entire career which includes 7 albums and an EP.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

No one's going to care about G-Unit five years from now.

[Brett Favre 0]

People will care about 50 though.

[naiwf 0]

No one cares about Radiohead now.

 

I see you were addressing someone else, but the point still stands.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

 

A truly "defining" artist/musician will be something that affects the musical landscape decades from now. Radiohead has a better shot at that than Eminem. They just need something as massive as OK Computer and Kid A again.

 

Not that I really care to argue, but in what way was OK Computer or Kid A "massive"? Each album only went platinum, and I don't think either album had a single that made any chart of note. Don't you have to have at least SOME commercial success to be a defining artist? I don't think Radiohead have sold more than 5 or 6 million albums in their entire career which includes 7 albums and an EP.

Cultural resonance outweighs commercial status. Though sales are important, they simply aren't the only thing going into this.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

No one cares about Radiohead now.

You're being to Radiohead what EricMM is to Eminem. Keep it up.

[naiwf 0]

 

A truly "defining" artist/musician will be something that affects the musical landscape decades from now. Radiohead has a better shot at that than Eminem. They just need something as massive as OK Computer and Kid A again.

 

Not that I really care to argue, but in what way was OK Computer or Kid A "massive"? Each album only went platinum, and I don't think either album had a single that made any chart of note. Don't you have to have at least SOME commercial success to be a defining artist? I don't think Radiohead have sold more than 5 or 6 million albums in their entire career which includes 7 albums and an EP.

Cultural resonance outweighs commercial status. Though sales are important, they simply aren't the only thing going into this.

 

What cultural resonance does Radiohead have if they have no commercial success? People need to know who you are before they can hear your message. I'd go so far as to say that a wider range of people have heard a complete piece of shit like Ashlee Simpson's music than Radiohead. Go to any random sampling of 100 people outside of a Radiohead concert and ask them whose music they're more familiar with and I'd guess that it's at least 85/15 for Eminem. Eric is just being hardheaded, I'm posing a legitimate question.