What the Fuck happened to RVD's heat?

[Fro 0]

The western half of the country are mostly kids who are John Cena marks and who were toddlers when ECW was running shows.

 

I'm pretty confident that when they hit Pittsburgh/Dayton next week, the heat will be off the charts.

[Taker666 0]

Who has RVD faced in WWE that he's really clicked with in the ring? His style requires an opponent that he can mesh well with. Someone not Chris Masters.

 

I thought he had phenomenal matches with Jeff Hardy back in the Alliance days, although that was 5 years ago.

[razazteca 0]

RVD could work with Shelton, Haas, Striker, Carlito.

[daileyxplanet 0]

So no one agrees with my statement? I was dead serious. He had some good pops until then. Also when he Van Daminated Shelton...

[The Niggardly King 0]

It hasn't been the same since the crowd cheered "ECW" loudly and RVD was all "I WANT YOU GUYS TO CHANT THREE LETTERS AND IT AIN'T RVD". After that, the crickets were the only ones chanting.

 

Note: RVD's quote was all caps because he doesn't know how to shoot a promo without yelling incessantly.

 

Yeah, that was pretty bad.

 

I don't think RVD can do anything but yell or mumble when cutting a promo.

[Guest El Satanico]

You can't blame the WWE for doing "ECW" storylines on the West Coast because they need the West Coast to watch "ECW"...the East Coast fans will watch anyway, regardless of quality, because it's got the letters "ECW" involved.

The west coasters with little or no ECW knowledge, would probably care more initially if it played out on TV from an area where ECW is instantly over, instead of in front of them.

[Jericholic82 0]

why is RVD (the character) suddenly all pro-ecw, wasnt the whole "mrmonday night" angle about him wanting to be in the wwf and helping lawler in his war with them?

 

better question is ECW supposed to be the heels in this matter or not? and why is angle all happy about being the pick when he hated ECW just last year. and why would Vince (on sc`reen that is) allow this to go on his air when the ecw guys are openly bashing him?

 

then again this is the same company that lets us hear the voices in kanes head and tried to lead us to believe kane was looking into his own soul last night when all of us saw another guy dressed as the old kane.

[NYU 0]

See, people keep saying "Oh, ECW doesn't get heat on the West Coast"...

 

...so, why the fuck are they creating a new brand and commiting to a new T.V show for half a country? If "ECW" is going to be even remotely successful they'll need to be popular everywhere, not just Philly and surrounding areas. You can't blame the WWE for doing "ECW" storylines on the West Coast because they need the West Coast to watch "ECW"...the East Coast fans will watch anyway, regardless of quality, because it's got the letters "ECW" involved.

 

ECW was a regional federation, so it needs to be treated like one. It needs to be introduced to the West Coast first, before it is going to get the response WWE wants. You wouldn't take Ring of Honor away from its Eastern Coast roots in New York and Philadelphia, bring it to the West Coast without explaining exactly what it is, and then stare in shock as the fans don't exactly know how to respond.

 

ECW was not popular on the West Coast. The fans in California and Washington, among other states, need to be conditioned to care about this federation first before anything else. WWE should NOT be running ECW house shows and TV shows on the west coast for at least the first year of its development. Let the fans in that region grow accustomed to what the federation actually is. Initially, you need to localize it in the portion of the United States it was most popular. Once the West Coast fans become familiar with the product, THEN you carry it out there.

 

You can blame WWE for running these storylines in the entirely wrong places, because they should have been better prepared. They knew when they planned to hold One Night Stand, so they should have taken care to place shows in towns that were actually familiar with ECW.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think the crowd honestly is highly confused by the whole angle. That is most of the problem. The west coast venues certainly don't help any, but here are some other problems RVD is facing at the moment:

 

1. John Cena's heat has recovered in recent weeks. Maybe it's the west coast locales, I dunno but Cena has been 80% cheered since Backlash.

 

2. RVD did what appeared to most fans as a heel turn. Let's face it, when you get in a guy's face, talk shit to him, then attack him that is the mark of a heel.

 

3. Cena is an innocent bystander in all of this. Seriously, why is Cena holding the title going into this show? He has no anti ECW agenda, if anything he's been Van Dam's ally in the past. Cena actually IS in the right here.

 

Anyway, fans simply don't know how to react to this angle. What's the deal here? Cena desperately needs to cut some kind of promo badmouthing ECW or something

 

As far as RVD phoning it in at ONS...not a chance. If he actually tanks it at that show after being so upset at missing last year's PPV, then I give up on the guy.

[NoCalMike 0]

It's not that West Coasters hate ECW, but they just weren't exposed to ECW as much during it's heyday. Unless you were one of the few fortunate ones like me to have had an old-school tv that could pick up odd low-band channels, chances are you never saw or heard of ECW until the TNN years and by then ECW was half the company it was in it's prime.

 

ECW did run a PPV in Los Angeles, and it was very successful, but that is because with one big show, they were able to draw the ECW fans from all of the West Coast via all the bus trip deals ECW used to have.

 

As far as RVD goes, when Styles ripped WWE and it's fans, remember RVD came out and said he agreed with everything Styles said. If you ask my opinion RVD isn't exactly a face right now, and the writers are tying to make "ECW" the heel in this. While RVD isn't out ther spewing cheap heat catchphrases, he isn't exactly acting like a face either. There are plenty of ECW signs in the crowd.

 

Plus the fact that the entire RVD/Cena feud has been so rushed, and it was put together poorly. It should have started sooner, but Vince had to keep the Cena/HHH/Edge thing going too long and it hurt the ability for a proper build to RVD/Cena. Quite frankly I don't even think the match matters anymore really since they have already let the cat out of the bag about ECW coming back full time.

 

Before we rush to judgement lets check out the Pittsburgh crowd on Monday. I really hope Angle shows up too because that should jack up the crowd as well.

[NoCalMike 0]

Oh and not to mention on Raw, they ended the Cena/RVD segment in the lamest way possible, with Cena throwing Nitro into RVD....I mean seriously WTF? If RVD is going to job to Cena which all indications point to, then RVD should be getting over on Cena leading up to the PPV, yeah I know he will probably lay him out in Pittsburgh but that is almost a given, more should have happened between them LAST NIGHT.

[Scroby 0]

See, people keep saying "Oh, ECW doesn't get heat on the West Coast"...

 

...so, why the fuck are they creating a new brand and commiting to a new T.V show for half a country? If "ECW" is going to be even remotely successful they'll need to be popular everywhere, not just Philly and surrounding areas. You can't blame the WWE for doing "ECW" storylines on the West Coast because they need the West Coast to watch "ECW"...the East Coast fans will watch anyway, regardless of quality, because it's got the letters "ECW" involved.

 

ECW was a regional federation, so it needs to be treated like one. It needs to be introduced to the West Coast first, before it is going to get the response WWE wants. You wouldn't take Ring of Honor away from its Eastern Coast roots in New York and Philadelphia, bring it to the West Coast without explaining exactly what it is, and then stare in shock as the fans don't exactly know how to respond.

 

ECW was not popular on the West Coast. The fans in California and Washington, among other states, need to be conditioned to care about this federation first before anything else. WWE should NOT be running ECW house shows and TV shows on the west coast for at least the first year of its development. Let the fans in that region grow accustomed to what the federation actually is. Initially, you need to localize it in the portion of the United States it was most popular. Once the West Coast fans become familiar with the product, THEN you carry it out there.

 

You can blame WWE for running these storylines in the entirely wrong places, because they should have been better prepared. They knew when they planned to hold One Night Stand, so they should have taken care to place shows in towns that were actually familiar with ECW.

 

This is the best statement about ECW on the west coast, I have read, good job Untouchable

 

Let me set another example, living on the West Coast, I didn't care for ECW at first. I didn't care for ECW or even cared to watch ECW before ECW got on TNN. Being on the West Coast, ECW came off to me as people just bashing each other with chairs and its just hardcore wrestling, but I was also coming out of my shell as a mark and getting smarter to the buissness at the time. When ECW got on TNN and I could watch it more regularly and thats when I became a fan and the only reason why I started watching ECW while it was on TNN because I was bored with WWF and WCW.

 

I remember a few days before it first aired on TNN, a friend of mine told me that ECW was going to be TNN on Friday nights and I ended up telling him that I didn't care because I found it to be "garbage wrestling", but I tuned in anyways just for the hell of it and I became a instant fan when I realized that I was wrong and that ECW wasn't garbage wrestling, it was something more and better.

 

Let me try to write this statement out clearly, I'm sorry if it doesn't make any sense.

 

So without that national exposure that ECW got at first with TNN and me being on the west coast and not understanding what ECW truely was without that national exposure, I wouldn't have cared for ECW then and I wouldn't have cared for the revival now. Thank God I started watching ECW on TNN.

[Guest Princess Leena]

The RVD build has been horrible...

 

It seemed like last week they were going with the "OMG RVD gets screwed by WWE! GLASS CEILING LOLZ!" stuff... and now he doesn't even get a match, and only announces a match which shows his glaring weakness.

[NoCalMike 0]

The RVD build has been horrible...

 

It seemed like last week they were going with the "OMG RVD gets screwed by WWE! GLASS CEILING LOLZ!" stuff... and now he doesn't even get a match, and only announces a match which shows his glaring weakness.

 

 

Is that Jenna Haze in your avatar? If So.....veeeery good choice.

Jenna Haze = Work Rate.

[NoCalMike 0]

Also back in the day, tape trading websites were a lot more abundant. No buying from stupid RF Video that costs $20 or more per tape. I could get 4 ECW shows for about $10-$15 bucks from a multitude of wrestling sites, but then all of the tape trading sites stopped doing North American federations because of legal issues. I am not sure how many of you are familiar with highspots, it is a pretty big tape trader site now, but I remember way back in the day I was ordering ECW shows from him when it was ONE GUY making dupes out of his college dorm. Without sites like that, I would have never probably gotten into Wrestling other then WWE/WCW as much because my access would have been limited to going to RF Video and overpaying.

[justcoz 0]

RVD needs Fonzie for the pick me up. RVD won't have to struggle on the mic when talking to the audience because Fonzie would be there blowing the whistle, yelling that RVD is the greatest baby, RVD is going to be the champion baby, etc. and playing to the crowd.

[Karc 0]

I'm glad you said that because I didn't want to be the only guy telling him he's wrong. I have worked wrestling shows in CA and in WA and know that crowds are pretty much markish. What your saying Karc doesn't make any sense. If the crowds don't find it entertaining enough to care about whats going on, why even go to the arena and pay to buy a ticket?

 

I'll give you a prime example. The Smackdown taping in San Diego last month. Most people there were only going to see Rey Mysterio, as he was the only advertised guy for the event when tickets went on sale. When was the last time Smackdown in the US had a sellout crowd, anyway? They could have cared less about the rest of the card. They wanted see a good showing of their hometown boy. Which explains the less than "markish" response when the hometown guy (who is supposed to be the champion and top face) was made to tlook like a total joke. Yeah, they could have booed Umaga out of the building, it certainly would have been a welcome response for WWE to see that he's getting over, but the people were silent, not in disbelief, but because they were watching shit.

 

People on the West Coast are fickle if anything. One week they will go crazy for something, only to be watching it while sitting on their hands the whole time. They definately are not "sheep."

[Scroby 0]

I'm glad you said that because I didn't want to be the only guy telling him he's wrong. I have worked wrestling shows in CA and in WA and know that crowds are pretty much markish. What your saying Karc doesn't make any sense. If the crowds don't find it entertaining enough to care about whats going on, why even go to the arena and pay to buy a ticket?

 

I'll give you a prime example. The Smackdown taping in San Diego last month. Most people there were only going to see Rey Mysterio, as he was the only advertised guy for the event when tickets went on sale. When was the last time Smackdown in the US had a sellout crowd, anyway? They could have cared less about the rest of the card. They wanted see a good showing of their hometown boy. Which explains the less than "markish" response when the hometown guy (who is supposed to be the champion and top face) was made to tlook like a total joke. Yeah, they could have booed Umaga out of the building, it certainly would have been a welcome response for WWE to see that he's getting over, but the people were silent, not in disbelief, but because they were watching shit.

 

People on the West Coast are fickle if anything. One week they will go crazy for something, only to be watching it while sitting on their hands the whole time. They definately are not "sheep."

 

Less than markish response? The hell are you talking about? That crowd didn't sit on their hands when Mysterio got beat and then JBL cut a promo on Mysterio. The crowd boo'ed. The crowd wasn't silent and didn't get up start leaving. That example you just used is really a load of crap.

 

Besides Umaga and Mysterio aren't even on the same show.

 

Also what your talking about is something differant from what we're talking about. Your talking about a wrestler getting no reaction at all because the fans just don't care. We're talking about the crowds not knowing how to react to a certain angle. Your talking about the California crowds not giving a shit about the product while we're discussing why Cena is being cheered so much now.

[Guest lo0p]

even though the buildup for this match is shit . .its still one of the few matches I cant wait to see. only mathces off the top of my head that I couldnt wait to see were hart/michaels wm 12 and survivor series 97, hart vs hart summerslam 94, austin/hart wm 13, rock/austin wm 17, rock hogan wm 18, benoit/michaels/hhh wm 20 and hart foundation vs team usa at canadian stampede.

[BigDawgCarl 0]

RVD needs Fonzie for the pick me up. RVD won't have to struggle on the mic when talking to the audience because Fonzie would be there blowing the whistle, yelling that RVD is the greatest baby, RVD is going to be the champion baby, etc. and playing to the crowd.

 

RVD should've been brought into the WWF with Fonzie by his side. It adds an abundance of "cool" to his character...Alfonso being the cheerleader while RVD stood there and calmly told you how great he was was definitely a great visual...

[imajackoff? 0]

funny, "all american" Angle w/ hair > super intense, hairless Angle w/ mouthpiece

[justcoz 0]

RVD needs Fonzie for the pick me up. RVD won't have to struggle on the mic when talking to the audience because Fonzie would be there blowing the whistle, yelling that RVD is the greatest baby, RVD is going to be the champion baby, etc. and playing to the crowd.

 

RVD should've been brought into the WWF with Fonzie by his side. It adds an abundance of "cool" to his character...Alfonso being the cheerleader while RVD stood there and calmly told you how great he was was definitely a great visual...

 

EXACTLY!!!! The key word there is "calmly". RVD is supposed to be laid back and arrogant. When he plays to the crowd it's supposed to be smug and not 'please cheer for me' but instead 'cheer for me because i'm the shit". The reason RVD screams and looks awkward doing a different type of promo and playing for crowd response is because it's not what he should be doing. It worked better with Fonzie because RVD would calmly tell you how great he was and Fonzie would yell, blow his whistle, jump around the ring and get people to chant RVD. They need Fonzie bad. Especially if RVD is the top guy in ECW.

[iggymcfly 0]

RVD's build has been terrible since he came back from injury. They needed to put him in at least one program with a main-eventer if they wanted him to be taken seriously as "the hot face" contending for the title. If he'd worked a program with Edge going into Backlash that culminated in some hot matches, I think the crowd could have easily gotten behind him.

 

Instead he's just been going through the motions with people like Chris Masters (that a lot of people tune out anyway), and just hitting his five spots. They really needed to do something with him between WM and ONS. Even if he was a fighting IC champion that always defended his title in no-DQ matches, so that the marks could associate him with hardcore and get into it, he might be over. But really anyone that's cheering for RVD right now is cheering for what he's donw five or ten years ago. He's really done nothing at all to get over since coming back from injury.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, he's had the best match nearly every week he's been on Raw since his return. Does that not count for anything?

 

I think this thread has accidentally brought up something that I've thought about for a while. Much of the notion of RVD being bad on the mic is mainly WWE having no clue and having him do promos that don't fit him whatsoever. Van Dam shouldn't be cutting bitter, angry promos on a weekly basis....it is jarring and not what fans like from him.

 

I think it was on youtube.com that I saw an old ECW RVD interview hyping his match with Taz at N2R 99. It was hilarious. He trashed Taz in mocking fashion like "Oh gee Taz, we get to find out who the top guy in the company really is. Did you ever have anyone come up to you after one of your 4 minute world title defenses and say 'That was the greatest match ever!?'"

 

Van Dam is not bad on the mic, not when he does what he is actually GOOD at on the mic. He can cut the occasional bitter shoot type promo, but it has to be when he is legit upset about something. The worked anger at Cena just came off like someone misplaced RVD's stash.

 

I can't see RVD jobbing at ONS. Yet they've already leaked the Vengeance poster. It's a real mess. The reason I can't see him jobbing is that Heyman is booking the show (with Vince nominally overseeing it). Let's face it, if they job RVD in any way, shape, or form at that PPV then his career is over. Finished. He's fucked. ECW would also be fucked as well, because no one would buy him on top there and frankly no one would buy it as a legit alternative if they just put the title on Angle. And if RVD jobs there and then wins an ECW tourney for the belt, he'd still come off like a jobber and the belt would look 2nd rate.

 

I think the most likely thing is some sort of silly Dusty Finish with a WWE ref being bumped, ECW ref counts 3 for RVD, the next night Vince reverses it and Cena is champ, but RVD has already taken that belt and become the new ECW champion.

[NoCalMike 0]

RVD can cut a promo, like cabbageboy said, go to youtube and find some of his old ECW promos, especially the ones when he is tagging with Sabu and he constantly is acting like a prick by putting himself over rather then the team, it is hilarious stuff. Just because he is not good at WWE-brand "I am god grrrrrr" "No, I made you tap, grrrrrrrr" type promos, doesn't mean he can't cut a promo.

[Karc 0]

I'm glad you said that because I didn't want to be the only guy telling him he's wrong. I have worked wrestling shows in CA and in WA and know that crowds are pretty much markish. What your saying Karc doesn't make any sense. If the crowds don't find it entertaining enough to care about whats going on, why even go to the arena and pay to buy a ticket?

 

I'll give you a prime example. The Smackdown taping in San Diego last month. Most people there were only going to see Rey Mysterio, as he was the only advertised guy for the event when tickets went on sale. When was the last time Smackdown in the US had a sellout crowd, anyway? They could have cared less about the rest of the card. They wanted see a good showing of their hometown boy. Which explains the less than "markish" response when the hometown guy (who is supposed to be the champion and top face) was made to tlook like a total joke. Yeah, they could have booed Umaga out of the building, it certainly would have been a welcome response for WWE to see that he's getting over, but the people were silent, not in disbelief, but because they were watching shit.

 

People on the West Coast are fickle if anything. One week they will go crazy for something, only to be watching it while sitting on their hands the whole time. They definately are not "sheep."

 

Less than markish response? The hell are you talking about? That crowd didn't sit on their hands when Mysterio got beat and then JBL cut a promo on Mysterio. The crowd boo'ed. The crowd wasn't silent and didn't get up start leaving. That example you just used is really a load of crap.

 

Besides Umaga and Mysterio aren't even on the same show.

 

Also what your talking about is something differant from what we're talking about. Your talking about a wrestler getting no reaction at all because the fans just don't care. We're talking about the crowds not knowing how to react to a certain angle. Your talking about the California crowds not giving a shit about the product while we're discussing why Cena is being cheered so much now.

 

I meant Khali. Doesn't really matter in the end because they are both getting the same monster push. At least Umaga hasn't buried Cena, yet.

 

And I responded to the why the West Coast doesn't mark out for ECW, and why RVD has no heat as a result. As far as I can remember, Cena had nothing to do with this.

 

But I can already see that I'm going to lose this argument, because I'm not a wrestling fan and I just "don't understand it."

[King Cucaracha 0]

Well, he's had the best match nearly every week he's been on Raw since his return. Does that not count for anything?

 

Name one. Seriously. I can't name one noteably good match since his injury.

[Guest Human Highlight Reel]

Even if his matches aren't notably good, they're still the best on Raw every week.

[Guest Coffey]

I'm calling BS. Just a match without botched spots or missed kicks is better than RVD's recent shit. Hell, Umaga's squash matches are usually better.