John Cena -- One person's thoughts

[Guest ChampKind]

Proof? When is the opening and closing of Raw not the highest rated points?

 

Look, I fail to believe that Raw viewers have some sort of telekenesis that allows them to tune in for Cena and shut off the TV the moment his segment is done.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Proof? When is the opening and closing of Raw not the highest rated points?

4/17: Michaels vs. Umaga with Vince at ringisde did the second highest viewership gain of the show, 671,000 and was the ratings peak for same show. This took place about halfway through, which, you might note, is not at the opening or the closing of the show.

5/1: Joey Style's promo gained 499,000 viewers, the second biggest viewership gain of the show. Again, this was not the opening segment nor was it the closing segment.

5/8: Edge/Foley/Dreamer + Maria vs. James gained 715,000, which was the second biggest viewership gain of the show. Once more, this was not the opening segment nor the closing segment.

 

Should I go on?

[Guest ChampKind]

Joey Styles' promo was in the last 15 minutes. How's that not the close of the show?

 

EDIT: And all these are No. 2 rated segments anyway, not No. 1.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

You said the highest segments would always be the opening and the closing. In those cases, the highest segments didn't involve the opening.

[goldengreek 0]

The "concrete evidence" you refer to Hawk34, the indisputable smoking gun, looks to me like four main events and an opening title match. Seems to me like the beginning and end of Raw are always the most highly rated. Look at any Raw ever and the highest segments will always be the beginning and the main event. Put anyone from the top teir in Cena's lead face role and those numbers will stay about the same.

 

And ANKLELOCK, I don't feel I'm on a bandwagon disliking Cena. I don't like Cena because his matches are the same thing over and over again: clotheslines, flying shoulder block, that blue thunder-esque move, five knuckle shuffle, FU, maybe STFU if it's a big match. That's about it. And as far as his character, I think it SUCKS. He was edgy in 2003, pushing the envelope with his raps. Now he says things like "fart juice" and salutes. How's that anything like what made people cheer him? Perhaps that's why he's hated, not because people want to jump on a bandwagon.

THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest ChampKind]

You said the highest segments would always be the opening and the closing. In those cases, the highest segments didn't involve the opening.

 

My fault, I didn't word myself properly. I would surmise that the No. 1 would almost always be the opening or main event segments.

[Guest Floridian Cool]

...he's not on the upper echelon of main eventers like Rock, Austin, or Hogan but he is getting there. Right now I see him on the same level as HHH, Bret, or Macho man.

 

Eh...I consider Triple H, Bret and Savage to be on the same level as Rock, Austin and Hogan. They're all household names, they've all drawn big money, and they've all had classic main event pay-per-view matches. They also have the respect of their peers and the fans. If you want to talk about lower echelon main event guys, name somebody like Flexy Lexy, Sting, Kevin Nash or Mick Foley. Cena is somewhere in between right now.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

HHH can't touch any of those guys (Austin, Rock, Hogan) in terms of being a household name.

[Guest Floridian Cool]

I'll give it to you that The Rock is more well-known than Trips...he's crossed over into Hollywood. But if somebody knows who Stone Cold is, that's because of the popularity of the Attitude Era, and I gurantee you that they've also heard of Undertaker, Triple H and Mick Foley. How else would you have heard of Steve Austin unless a) you had a friend/relative who was a fan or b) you were a casual viewer (in both cases, you would have heard of wrestlers besides Austin)? The only probable answers: you're a huge fan of Nash Bridges. Triple H has been on just as many crappy TV shows (Pac Blue, MadTV, etc.) as Austin, as well as SNL, which Austin was never on. And I'd say about an even number of people saw Blade III and The Longest Yard.

[KingPK 0]

Sheesh, people will just ignore every shred of fact thrown their way if it doesn't jive with their belief, won't they?

 

Look, I haven't watched a full WWE program in months and don't really care for Cena either way.....but if you can get 8,000+ ECW fans (or whatever the attendance of ONS II was) to chant "Fuck you, Cena" and make signs saying they will riot if you win while another segment of fans is plunking down money to buy every bit of merchandise that has your name on it.....you gotta be doing SOMETHING right.

 

I mean, I don't really think people were doing that for X-Pac.

[Guest ChampKind]

This is unbelievable. Cena's in the top rated segments, but how does that differentiate him from other champions? Maybe I've misinterpreted the debate. But how were things different when some other popular top tier player was in his position, say Benoit in 2004?

 

I don't think Cena's turning anyone away, there's no question he's not. But the way some have made it out to be he's the second coming of Steve Austin and if you disagree you're nothing more than a smark bandwagon hopper.

 

And just to add...Hammerstein had about 1/4 of that at One Night Stand, but he got that reaction not because he's some great worker. He got the Jeff Hardy in ROH treatment. Now that's with the hardcore (old and true) ECW fanbase, not with WWE fans.

[KingPK 0]

Still, when was the last time ANYBODY in WWE got that kind of reaction in ANY arena in the country? It's not that he's a "great worker", far from it. He's just got a character that's polarized the fanbase and he's using that to his advantage. After watching a bit of that ONS match, I wouldn't have been surprised if the guy mailed it in to stick it to the crowd, but he hung in.

 

I don't think he's the second coming of anyone, but I do agree with Loss in that it is admirable that the guy's been able to roll with the punches.

[benn 0]

I don't consider myself to be a Cena fan at all, but there's no denying the guy has improved in recent months, and the program with ECW has definately helped. HTQ has given you statistical proof that while there may be other contributing factors, Cena draws viewers. If you're denying that then you're ignoring the facts. Just because you don't like his character doesn't mean that he doesn't draw. The biggest problem is simply that Cena held the title for too damn long and started stagnating. To put it back on him without giving a run to either Edge or Triple H after RVD drops it would be harmful to all involved. Cena is a main eventer whether you personally like him or not, and he's going to be carrying the company in future years along with guys like Edge, Lashley and Kennedy.

[bob_barron 0]

Sheesh, people will just ignore every shred of fact thrown their way if it doesn't jive with their belief, won't they?

 

Look, I haven't watched a full WWE program in months and don't really care for Cena either way.....but if you can get 8,000+ ECW fans (or whatever the attendance of ONS II was) to chant "Fuck you, Cena" and make signs saying they will riot if you win while another segment of fans is plunking down money to buy every bit of merchandise that has your name on it.....you gotta be doing SOMETHING right.

 

I mean, I don't really think people were doing that for X-Pac.

 

Any WWE champion who was facing RVD would've gotten the same reception.

 

I like Cena and all but that's a poor example.

[Guest zetableh]

I haven't had the time to read this entire thread yet, but I want to add my own comments on Cena and his impact on the WWE.

 

I have a summer job at a family oriented theme park. I am a ride operator, so I see my fair share of people every day. And I observe what they are wearing, since every ride requires shirt and shoes. I've seen more than a few people wearing WWE merchandise. All but one shirt was for John Cena. The one shirt was a Batista shirt on a 30+ year old. But I've seen Cena's black shirt with his old spinner chain on it, I've seen a few girls in camo "You Can't See Me", I've seen the YCSM sweat wristbands, and a bunch of other shirts.

 

So no matter what your opinion of Cena as a wrestler, the man moves merchandise. And lots of it too, from what I've seen. I can keep you updated on how much WWE stuff I see, but this far it's about 6:1 Cena:others. And yes, I know most of the stuff was on a younger crowd (both male and female, more male than female, however), but even still, WWE is doing the intelligent thing for business and appealing for their target audience, who is just eating Cena up.

 

Now, if they could only find a happy balance between the younger crowd and us older smarks, we'd all be happy and fine. But what the future brings, who knows. We all mark out for DX and all that jazz, but dumping slime on the SS? That's all for the younger kids.

 

Just chiming in on what I've seen in terms of t-shirts. Cena moves merchandise, no matter how good a wrestler you think he is.

[goldengreek 0]

Still, when was the last time ANYBODY in WWE got that kind of reaction in ANY arena in the country? It's not that he's a "great worker", far from it. He's just got a character that's polarized the fanbase and he's using that to his advantage. After watching a bit of that ONS match, I wouldn't have been surprised if the guy mailed it in to stick it to the crowd, but he hung in.

 

I don't think he's the second coming of anyone, but I do agree with Loss in that it is admirable that the guy's been able to roll with the punches.

If he would have as you said mailed it in, his check would not have been in the mail and his ass fired. What is a wrestler gonna do? Quit because the fans are boing him? And you actually admire the fact that he didnt? That should be a given.

[k thx 0]

It's not so much that he's rolled with the punches but that he's come out stronger. Before he started getting booed, he was a vanilla directionless wrestler with a couple of catchphases. Now he's got more of an edge. This feud wth ECW/Edge has given him a direction, given him a reason to be fighting and has put him in some damn good brawls. Plus that bruise on his eye gives him a pretty good look. If he keeps on in the same direction, he'll be golden.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

If he would have as you said mailed it in, his check would not have been in the mail and his ass fired.

 

So why does HBK still have a job?

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I'd probably own my own replica spinner belt by now if he kept the character he had in 03/04. Trading in his team jerseys to wear his latest ShopZone shirt, shitcanning the ramp walk raps that had that DX style sing-along moment for the crowd, and changing his smug attitude for a smiling "just happy to be here" guy, yeah, that's why I can't stand him.

[Wrestlefreak 0]

People have to remember that wrestling ability is the most important thing.. Even if you think that Cena has an interesting character(which I don't) and is good for business, the fact still remains that he's a horrible wrestler. His matches are tedious and boring and he has a limited moveset. This is even less acceptable given Cena's main- event spot(if he was a midcarder it wouldn't be that big of a deal). I'm not saying that getting a reaction from the crowd or being the WWE's top merchandise seller aren't important factors, I'm just saying that all those things are nowhere near as important as bieng a good wrestler. There have been many wrestlers that have been mega-sucessful despite there lack of a solid workrate(Huk Hogan is a prime example), but I still don't find them interesting to watch in the ring. IMO, anyone who doesn't put wrestling talent above any other aspect of a wrestler's skills is not a true wrestling fan.

[Bruce Blank 0]

People have to remember that wrestling ability is the most important thing.

See that's a personal oppinion right there - it's not a universally accepted truth. So it's not something people HAVE to remember - if they like Cena for whatever reasons, good for them, if they don't like him for whatever reasons, that's their choice too. People should remember than instead of discussing things in absolutes.

 

You're saying that if you like Cena then you're not a true wrestling fan? Yeah tone down the "Holier than thou" attitude man

[Black Lushus 0]

edit...nevermind...Bruce sums it up nicely

[Guest JumpinJackFlash]

I just watched Wrestlemania 22 last night, and that is another prime example of Cena's drawing power. Everybody was going crazy for that match in the building. It wasn't the best wrestling match(Nowehere near the Triple Threat), but it had that (pardon the pun) "Big Time" feel. It made me just as interested, if not more. And anyone who could change Triple H from not too much heat(aside with some boos) to being cheered like crazy for busting out a sledgehammer and hitting a man who stands for "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect" must be a doctor(of thuganomics) that can cure fucking cancer!

 

BTW...Anyone else think they were having a competition as to who could have the most over-the-top tacky ring entrance?

[Guest Hemme]

I like Cena.

The guys gets a very good reaction from the crowd, fair enough some of it might not be the desired reaction, but still, it's better than having the fans chant "boring" during his matches.

His superman comeback is lame, but so was Hogans, Cenas solid enough in the ring & is supposed to have a good attitude backstage & with the fans, sure he's no Chris(t) Benoit when it comes to wrestling, but he's alright.

[goldengreek 0]

I just watched Wrestlemania 22 last night, and that is another prime example of Cena's drawing power. Everybody was going crazy for that match in the building. It wasn't the best wrestling match(Nowehere near the Triple Threat), but it had that (pardon the pun) "Big Time" feel. It made me just as interested, if not more. And anyone who could change Triple H from not too much heat(aside with some boos) to being cheered like crazy for busting out a sledgehammer and hitting a man who stands for "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect" must be a doctor(of thuganomics) that can cure fucking cancer!

 

BTW...Anyone else think they were having a competition as to who could have the most over-the-top tacky ring entrance?

That match heat and "big time feel" was due to the awesome chicago fans and thier hatred for what Cena is( a poser and absolutely shity wrestler)

[justcoz 0]

I just watched Wrestlemania 22 last night, and that is another prime example of Cena's drawing power. Everybody was going crazy for that match in the building. It wasn't the best wrestling match(Nowehere near the Triple Threat), but it had that (pardon the pun) "Big Time" feel. It made me just as interested, if not more. And anyone who could change Triple H from not too much heat(aside with some boos) to being cheered like crazy for busting out a sledgehammer and hitting a man who stands for "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect" must be a doctor(of thuganomics) that can cure fucking cancer!

 

BTW...Anyone else think they were having a competition as to who could have the most over-the-top tacky ring entrance?

That match heat and "big time feel" was due to the awesome chicago fans and thier hatred for what Cena is( a poser and absolutely shity wrestler)

 

But they weren't sitting on their hands, were they? He gets a reaction unlike anybody the business has ever seen and even though a lot of it is people who legitimately hate him for being in the position he's in, in this era where kayfabe doesn't exist, when is drawing real legit emotion from the audience a bad thing?

 

I mentioned the Pittsburgh Steelers who were dressed in his gear at the Raw show in Pittsburgh. They also ran back to their seats, taking pictures with their camera phones, when his music hit. My girlfriend was making fun of me because I wanted to leave a get together with friends to watch ECW One Night Stand and another girl at the party, someone who doesn't watch wrestling, asked me why John Cena was more important than them? That doesn't mean a whole lot except he's the star of the show right now. No, he's not a Rock, Hogan or Austin but he's the closest thing to that kind of presence currently in the company.

[Promoter 0]

Hmm...I think Cena's position is better than it was around Mania though. The fans were REALLY wanting to see the man go down to HHH. Hell, he is partly responsible for HHH's face return.

 

I think the wwe is booking him right at the moment as I said before. He didn't win the title last night to the delight of some fans, but he also did not go down in a fashion that dissapoints his fanbase. I also think it's helping Edge in many ways in becoming a real main event heel that was a threat to HHH heel.

 

RVD actually got some scattering boos last night for being champion and also the night after he won the belt on RAW. Compare that to around Mania and it seems like Cena is slowly winning over some fans that detested him. Maybe that win over HHH has helped and perhaps HHH toning down his dominance in the last year is integral to the change of heart of some fans.

 

Everyone's comments here are still valid though. His ringwork and size do not seem to fit him being super champion Hulk Hogan in the 80's. However, the wwe is booking him that way and I think if this were Hogan today the responses and feedback would be the same. I talked about the REAL old school heads and their disdain for Hogan. Everything being said here was said about Hogan and tenfold. However, I disagree that Hogan wasn't a good worker. The man has timing and can work the crowd. Look what he did to friggin Rock at WM 18. Ric Flair even comments that Hogan is under-rated for a big man wrestler by people. In his prime years his matches had that Mike Tyson 1980's type(or Muhammad Ali 1970's) of big time feel to it. I can't say anyone else has reached that level. The Rock and Austin only did a few times imo(against each other and Austin against Foley at OTE come to mind).

 

Bruno attacked Hogan's WM 4 promo as an embarassment in 1988. He was blamed for having muscle men like Luger getting pushes over pure wrestlers like Backlund or Flair. However, Hogan did his job that was acquired of him. I'm not saying Cena is Hogan, Rock, or Austin, but who is? The wwe is building Cena in the blueprint of a traditional wwe babyface champion and I think that is what's getting some of the backlash.

 

Anyone getting this push today might be getting the same problem. Austin was not this dominant as champion in 1988 as Vince was on his ass and he lost the title unlike the previous babyface world champs that reigned for months without any big losses. People were getting sick of Austin by 2000 though which even Austin admitted he wanted a change with the WM 17 turn. We know how that tanked at the box offfice although it was good creatively(for the most part anyways).

 

I think for the most part Cena is too at the moment(a few months ago no way in hell). People were wanting a heel turn on the net and maybe so, but Vince might win this one out eventually in time for the movie release. Cena is also getting a real rivalry that is needed with Edge and ecw. The Rock had it originally with HHH and so on. That is perhaps why he is getting better reactions now.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

IMO, anyone who doesn't put wrestling talent above any other aspect of a wrestler's skills is not a true wrestling fan.

Care to elaborate on this?

 

People have to remember that wrestling ability is the most important thing.

 

It isn't.

[goldengreek 0]

I just watched Wrestlemania 22 last night, and that is another prime example of Cena's drawing power. Everybody was going crazy for that match in the building. It wasn't the best wrestling match(Nowehere near the Triple Threat), but it had that (pardon the pun) "Big Time" feel. It made me just as interested, if not more. And anyone who could change Triple H from not too much heat(aside with some boos) to being cheered like crazy for busting out a sledgehammer and hitting a man who stands for "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect" must be a doctor(of thuganomics) that can cure fucking cancer!

 

BTW...Anyone else think they were having a competition as to who could have the most over-the-top tacky ring entrance?

That match heat and "big time feel" was due to the awesome chicago fans and thier hatred for what Cena is( a poser and absolutely shity wrestler)

 

But they weren't sitting on their hands, were they? He gets a reaction unlike anybody the business has ever seen and even though a lot of it is people who legitimately hate him for being in the position he's in, in this era where kayfabe doesn't exist, when is drawing real legit emotion from the audience a bad thing?

 

I mentioned the Pittsburgh Steelers who were dressed in his gear at the Raw show in Pittsburgh. They also ran back to their seats, taking pictures with their camera phones, when his music hit. My girlfriend was making fun of me because I wanted to leave a get together with friends to watch ECW One Night Stand and another girl at the party, someone who doesn't watch wrestling, asked me why John Cena was more important than them? That doesn't mean a whole lot except he's the star of the show right now. No, he's not a Rock, Hogan or Austin but he's the closest thing to that kind of presence currently in the company.

I will say it again: Do you actually think the 20 Steelers showed up dressed the same?? They were given the Cena gear for free.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

People have to remember that wrestling ability is the most important thing.

Could you say that again? I can't hear you over The Rock's crowd pop. Oh, hold on, Hogan is cupping his ear so it's getting even louder.