4,000 dead Americans

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Do we as a nation, have to rebuild a country after we've completely decimated it? Is that in some law/statue/convention somewhere?

 

I've never understood why we do that.

 

Bush's Christian conscience.

[EricMM 0]

We're spending waaaaaaaaay more on Iraq than Vietnam.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

This from the guy who got out of Vietnam because of an ass cyst:

 

During the September 26 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh called service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq "phony soldiers." He made the comment while discussing with a caller a conversation he had with a previous caller, "Mike from Chicago," who said he "used to be military," and "believe that we should pull out of Iraq." Limbaugh told the second caller, whom he identified as "Mike, this one from Olympia, Washington," that "[t]here's a lot" that people who favor U.S. withdrawal "don't understand" and that when asked why the United States should pull out, their only answer is, " 'Well, we just gotta bring the troops home.' ... 'Save the -- keeps the troops safe' or whatever," adding, "t's not possible, intellectually, to follow these people." "Mike" from Olympia replied, "No, it's not, and what's really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media." Limbaugh interjected, "The phony soldiers." The caller, who had earlier said, "I am a serving American military, in the Army," agreed, replying, "The phony soldiers."

 

http://mediamatters.org/items/200709270010?f=h_top

[SamoaRowe 0]

Rush can kiss the fattest part of my ass.

[snuffbox 0]

Draft dodgers are the real soldiers.

 

 

[NoCalMike 0]

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/?q=node/34

 

"The US Senate, by an outrageous vote of 76-22, just passed the Kyl-Lieberman amendment discussed in this article. This means that the Senate, including half the Democrats in that body, have endorsed war with Iran. The Democrats in the Senate managed to remove the most incindiary language in the Kyl-Lieberman amendment, which called for military action against Iran, but left in a call to declare Iran's Revolutionary Guard a global terrorist organization. Since Bush claims to be fighting a global "war" on terror, that's all he needs to claim he already has the authority to attack them.

With this kind of thing going on, the only thing to do is go to the second article on this page, and, if you are a Democrat, quit the party. We have two war parties in America, one called the Republicans and one called the Democrats."

 

Great, now how long before we hear the same drum-beat towards Iran that we did Iraq. Jesus Christ, I hope this is not happening all over again.

[snuffbox 0]

I'm willing to predict we attack Iran before November '08.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Just in time for elections!

 

"We have a war people, and we all know that only Republicans know how to protect our country during war, vote red!"

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Like I've said before, the only thing that seems like it could create change in the direction this country is headed is a wave of assassinations, sad to say.

[NoCalMike 0]

Like I've said before, the only thing that seems like it could create change in the direction this country is headed is a wave of assassinations, sad to say.

 

but how easy would it be to blame it on some arab and say

"we have no choice.....NUKES!!"

[snuffbox 0]

Where was Rush's "say it to my face!" badassness back in the late 60s/early 70s?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Maybe the UN could do something about Myanmar's situation, like with Darfur.

 

Oh, wait...

[snuffbox 0]

Good one?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

This from the guy who got out of Vietnam because of an ass cyst:

 

During the September 26 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh called service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq "phony soldiers." He made the comment while discussing with a caller a conversation he had with a previous caller, "Mike from Chicago," who said he "used to be military," and "believe that we should pull out of Iraq." Limbaugh told the second caller, whom he identified as "Mike, this one from Olympia, Washington," that "[t]here's a lot" that people who favor U.S. withdrawal "don't understand" and that when asked why the United States should pull out, their only answer is, " 'Well, we just gotta bring the troops home.' ... 'Save the -- keeps the troops safe' or whatever," adding, "t's not possible, intellectually, to follow these people." "Mike" from Olympia replied, "No, it's not, and what's really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media." Limbaugh interjected, "The phony soldiers." The caller, who had earlier said, "I am a serving American military, in the Army," agreed, replying, "The phony soldiers."

 

http://mediamatters.org/items/200709270010?f=h_top

 

I like this response to Rush.

 

[snuffbox 0]

Congress has already condemned Rush like they did moveon.org, right?

[NoCalMike 0]

Congress has already condemned Rush like they did moveon.org, right?

 

No. The same ones who voted along with Republicans to condem moveon.org, decided not to condemn Rush. Wow, AMAZING!! Not that I think EITHER Rush or Moveon.org should be occupying the precious time of the House or Senate, but it just goes to show that the Dems still fear the "Weak on Terror" label. I think even one Republican tried to get a vote in FAVOR of Rush for "supporting the troops in Iraq" LO F'N L. Also, it has been reported that Rush doctored the entire exchange about the "phoney soldier" for when it aired on Armed Forces Radio, which isn't suprising in the least.

[NoCalMike 0]

The latest on the Blackwater investigation....(well latest as of a few days ago)....CSPAN 3 is covering the Senate Investigation of Blackwater.

 

Blackwater guard 'turned gun on colleagues and told them to stop shooting'

( Ali Yussef/AFP/Getty Images)

The aftermath of the shootout in Baghdad on September 16 in which 11 Iraqis died

 

Deborah Haynes, of The Times, Baghdad

A Blackwater guard reportedly yelled at colleagues to “stop shooting” during an afternoon of chaos in Baghdad that left 11 Iraqis dead and called into question the accountability of all Western private security firms operating in Iraq.

 

The US-based company, which protects the American Embassy in the capital and its staff, is at the centre of a storm concerning the September 16 drama, which has enraged the Iraqi Government and sparked a series of investigations.

 

The controversy involved a car bomb, a shootout at a busy roundabout and a standoff between Blackwater guards and Iraqi security forces, according to an initial embassy report that was seen by The Washington Post.

 

An American official familiar with the investigation said those involved in the incident claimed that at least one Blackwater guard had drawn a weapon on his colleagues and shouted at them to “stop shooting”, the newspaper reported.

 

 

Blackwater by Jeremy Scahill

In this exclusive extract Scahill traces the rise of Blackwater from a small private security firm to a major component of America's military might

 

The New York Times also quoted an unnamed US official as saying that one or more of the Blackwater guards had called for a ceasefire.

 

The word ceasefire “was supposedly called out several times ... They had an on-site difference of opinion,” the official said. Ultimately, a Blackwater guard “got on another one about the situation and supposedly pointed a weapon”, the newspaper reported.

 

At the same time, the official cautioned against jumping to a conclusion on who was to blame because events could become confused in the heat of a fight.

 

An Iraqi investigation has concluded that the Blackwater guards fired their guns without provocation. But the US official quoted by The New York Times said the guards told American investigators they believed they had shot in response to hostile fire.

 

The report by the State Department’s Bureau of Diplomatic Security, which was cited in The Washington Post, was described as a “first blush” of the events that began when the car bomb exploded near a financial compound in western Baghdad while a US official was visiting.

 

Three Blackwater teams moved to transport the official back to the fortified green zone. Two units returned safely with the official, who was unharmed, but the third team came under fire from “eight to ten” persons” who “fired from multiple nearby locations, with some aggressors dressed in civilian apparel and others in Iraqi police uniforms”, the newspaper quoted the report as saying.

 

One of the other two teams was re-dispatched to help but during that time the third unit managed to get itself back to the green zone.

 

As a result, the redeployed Blackwater group found itself in bad traffic at the roundabout at Nisoor Square, confronted by Iraqi police and army.

 

US soldiers were subsequently sent out to defuse the situation.

 

A State Department official told The Washington Post that the report was only an initial account that reflected what embassy officers were told by the Blackwater guards immediately after the incident. Details could change, he added.

 

Blackwater, which employs about 1,000 guards in Iraq, was not immediately available for comment but a spokeswoman was quoted in The New York Times as saying that she could not confirm any of the details provided by the Americans.

 

A US Embassy spokeswoman in Baghdad said: “We are not commenting on the substance of the investigation.”

 

US officials were also quoted in both newspapers as questioning the logic of trying to evacuate personnel from the protected compound in the first place rather than remaining inside after the car bomb until the situation was calmer.

 

Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, has ordered a review board to visit Iraq next week to assess US diplomatic security practices there after the Blackwater incident.

 

Emphasising the gravity of the situation, the Pentagon has already dispatched a separate, high-level team to review whether American commanders are policing contractors working for them properly.

 

The five-man team was sent to Baghdad on Sunday by Robert Gates, the US Defence Secretary, who is under pressure to rein-in private security companies, that have earned a reputation in Iraq for being aggressive and trigger-happy.

 

 

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Yep. Just goes to show what a mess this is...companies make a boatload of money, do a bad job, and make even more money, without any repercussions for their failures. This stuff is why the Bush administration needs to be punished for how they've conducted the war. It's just flagrant how this is basically just a big money grab.

[NoCalMike 0]

One question: I wonder how easy or hard it is for Iraqis themselves to distinguish between a solider and a security contractor. I mean, when blackwater security team members go out and do something foolish like this incident, and then the actual military has to come in and defuse the situation, is the backlash wrongly coming down on the military, because in the Iraqi citizen's eyes all they see are guys in camo with machine guns!?!? I am sure it doesn't help our men and women in uniform whatsoever, that a security firm which operates under it's own laws, is walking around with automatic weapons and itchy trigger fingers.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

One question: I wonder how easy or hard it is for Iraqis themselves to distinguish between a solider and a security contractor. I mean, when blackwater security team members go out and do something foolish like this incident, and then the actual military has to come in and defuse the situation, is the backlash wrongly coming down on the military, because in the Iraqi citizen's eyes all they see are guys in camo with machine guns!?!? I am sure it doesn't help our men and women in uniform whatsoever, that a security firm which operates under it's own laws, is walking around with automatic weapons and itchy trigger fingers.

Well since we supposedly have a hard time telling the difference between a citizen and a terrorist I'd imagine so.

[Jingus 0]

What do you mean "supposedly"? The terrorists generally wear the same clothes and look exactly the same as the civilians. (That's part of the problem, terrorists are civilians; they're criminals, not soldiers.)

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

What do you mean "supposedly"? The terrorists generally wear the same clothes and look exactly the same as the civilians. (That's part of the problem, terrorists are civilians; they're criminals, not soldiers.)

It's just what I have read about. There is no disagreement here.

[snuffbox 0]

Why is the 1-3 trillion for Iraq cool for 'conservatives' but the tiny fraction of that for health care for actual Americans bad?

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Why is the 1-3 trillion for Iraq cool for 'conservatives' but the tiny fraction of that for health care for actual Americans bad?

Um...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Because they're compassionate conservatives. We need to spend the money on Iraq because they were ruled by an evil dictator. Americans are too patriotic to need that money from the government.

[snuffbox 0]

As a libertarian I'd prefer that neither need be done. But being sensible, the difference between a big expense (for Americans) and a HUGE expense (for foreign people not showing any particular glee for our 'help') is just insane. Even as a libertarian I agree that America should play some role in world affairs but not at the trillion-dollar-for-practicaly-nothing level.

 

The rhetorical battleground here is 'socialized medicine' vs. 'hates children'. Neither is accurate. The fact remains, though, a Republican President is going to end up spending at leat 1 trillion dollars on a folly in another country but has vetoed a bill to spend a fraction of that for people in his own country, only then using his misinformed idea of 'conservatism'.

 

Nutshell = pathetic.

[Jingus 0]

Also because Republicans just can't stand the idea of government-sponsored health insurance, they think it should all be handled by private companies.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

*edit*

[Guest Gym Class Fallout]

Fuck health care. I never get sick. If I do die because I needed medical treatment for something, it was my own fault for getting into that mess. Stomach cancer? Should've laid off the Frank's Red Hot on everything.

[snuffbox 0]

I laughed at Vyce's post over at the Trog Board. He forgot to say the money's cool if it's a lot more of it for Iraq, though.