WWE 24/7

[JimmyHendricks 0]

One of the programs slated for this month is SNME featuring Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy. Looking up Graham Cawthon's excellent site, that show also featured Randy Savage vs. Bret Hart.

 

It's up now. Fucking A! Bret vs. Savage!

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

New content for the week of February 7th (excuse my forgetting the exact dates):

 

Big Ones: "Colossal Jostle" MSG house show (1985)

 

Specials: "Biggest, Smallest, Strangest, Strongest" (1985 Coliseum Video), November 28 / 1987 SNME

 

Territories: NWA (first week of July 85)

 

Prime Time: TNT, Monday Night War (first Monday of December 96).

 

--

 

I watched the BSSS Coliseum Video after work last night. Nothing special but seeing some of the old footage was interesting.

 

I spent the morning watching Nitro and Raw. Nitro has a great Benoit / Regal match, the only downfall being Regal gets busted open causing the family safe long shot for the rest of the match. It's kinda like watching it live, though! I loved the way Nitro opened, with Tony promising footage and then standing there, followed by "oh you're still looking for it?". Classic. Raw wasn't much but Lawler's tasteless jokes about Tiny Tim's death had me laughing and Flash Funk vs Goon was actually ok.

 

One thing I found odd was during the main event (HHH / Billy Gunn vs Mero / Jake Roberts), Lawler makes a comment about Billy revealing he and Bart aren't even brothers. Was that the end of that brother gimmick? I seem to recall them having match where Bart was "injured" by Billy and their wives, I guess, asking Billy how he could do that to his own brother.

[Black Lushus 0]

When did Road Dogg and Gunn start hooking up? I know they helped the HBK/HHH/Chyna version of DX out a few times in late 97, right?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Well, in the Spring of 97 they introduced Rockabilly to feud with The Real Double J. Since that feud sucked, I believe they were both missing from TV until the fall of 97, where they teamed up for no reason but won the hearts of the audience by wearing South Park shirts (hey, it won me over in 97).

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Ijp3tJnWc

 

This is cool Coliseum Video opening that was discussed earlier. 24/7 has a different song (someone on youtube made a comment about this song being the real version and 24/7 dubbing over it, which could be true I just assumed there were two different songs). To be honest, I like the song on 24/7 better.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Watching MSG from October '85, goddamn I've never seen a better babyface performance from Ricky Steamboat. That match is really good.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Ijp3tJnWc

 

This is cool Coliseum Video opening that was discussed earlier. 24/7 has a different song (someone on youtube made a comment about this song being the real version and 24/7 dubbing over it, which could be true I just assumed there were two different songs). To be honest, I like the song on 24/7 better.

 

Never seen the 24/7 version, but that was indeed the Coliseum Video version.

[JimmyHendricks 0]

When did Road Dogg and Gunn start hooking up? I know they helped the HBK/HHH/Chyna version of DX out a few times in late 97, right?

 

I was there live, so I saw it.

 

Well, at the 10/6/97 RAW (the night after Brian Pillman's death), they taped Shotgun Saturday Night beforehand. There was a match, with "Rockabilly" (with Honky Tonk) vs. some jobber. Before the match could start, Road Dogg walks out with a mic and berates Billy for dressing like an idiot and having Honky as his manager. Eventually Billy KO's Honky with the guitar and leaves with Road Dogg. From then on they were a team.

[Black Lushus 0]

cool, thanks for the info.

 

I caught Savage/Hart from SNME last night...damn what a great match. Now imagine if in-his-prime Savage (which he was in 87) faced in-his-prime Bret Hart (94-95). Between the match itself, the story behind it, the crowd heat etc. I'd easily give that match at least 3.5 stars.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

It's a bit odd (to me anyway) that SNME has about 2 seconds of "Obsession" not edited out - 1 at the beginning of the intro and one at the end.

 

The other day I went to watch Kevin Sullivan's "Army of Darkness" segment in Shorties, but a match between Sherri and Rockin Robin played instead. I assume that's actually going to be in the HoF section next week.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

In regards to Sullivan, I got the correct match.

 

The Missing Link is the 1980s version of the Boogeyman.

[Betty Houle 0]

When did Road Dogg and Gunn start hooking up? I know they helped the HBK/HHH/Chyna version of DX out a few times in late 97, right?

 

I was there live, so I saw it.

 

Well, at the 10/6/97 RAW (the night after Brian Pillman's death), they taped Shotgun Saturday Night beforehand. There was a match, with "Rockabilly" (with Honky Tonk) vs. some jobber. Before the match could start, Road Dogg walks out with a mic and berates Billy for dressing like an idiot and having Honky as his manager. Eventually Billy KO's Honky with the guitar and leaves with Road Dogg. From then on they were a team.

 

"I smell money!"

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I found it odd that on SNME, Bam Bam had his 1995 face music dubbed in. I wasn't even aware 80's Bigelow had something that needed to be overdubbed. I don't recall him having any music at WrestleMania IV, which segues into...

 

This whole "WrestleMania III" dilemma. It's February, so my annual Road to WrestleMania marathon is kicking off. I usually watch them in order (naturally), but I don't really feel like watching WM III twice in such a short period of time, nor do I want to create a tape viewing backlog by waiting until 24/7 airs the "better" version of the show. So, my options are:

 

1. Skip WM III, watch WM IV and so on and then go back to III when it's on 24/7.

 

2. Watch both (this would probably involve me doing what I did with WM1 this year and plan to do with 2 - "watch" it on the TV I now have a VCR hooked up to in the computer area while actually doing stuff on the net).

 

I'm leaning towards 2, myself.

[Black Lushus 0]

DrV, what's your take on WM4? A lot of people knock it because it's long...I, personally, liked it a lot. a hot battle royal with a great ending to start off the night, some decent matches in each round, Savage going the distance, Savage/DiBiase for a final, Demolition/Strike Force had a decent match. It's really not THAT bad.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I'm not a fan myself, but I'd certainly put it above 1 and 2. Savage winning the belt is cool but it's like Mania V - 4 hours (a lot of people don't realize the actual WM5 was LONGER than IV based on Coliseum Video's handling of the editing), a lot of matches, and only a few of them worth watching.

 

My "WrestleMania that everyone hates but I enjoy" is IX, but I certainly wouldn't vote for that against WM XIX in the "Pick Your Big One" poll this month (not that it really matters to someone with all the WMs anyway).

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Not that you asked me, but I always enjoyed WMIV. Back then, the thought of Hogan NOT winning it all was beyond my comprehension. The battle royal was nice and had an unusual twist. Eucker's interviews were great. I found the Muraco/DiBiase match to be solid old school goodness. Beefcake/HTM was a good circus of a spectacle. Demolition's title win was a markout moment for most at the time and the moment of Savage going to the top and EVERYONE standing to see the flying elbow that put away DiBiase was great.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I found it odd that on SNME, Bam Bam had his 1995 face music dubbed in. I wasn't even aware 80's Bigelow had something that needed to be overdubbed. I don't recall him having any music at WrestleMania IV, which segues into...

 

He had a pretty cool saxophone tune. Also used it at SurSeries 1987 and if you ever get a copy of Best of WWF Volume 15, it plays nice and clearly on that too. Jesse Ventura's reaction to the fast count which made Bigelow victorious against King Kong Bundy was gold. But I digress.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Was it ever explained why Heenan purposely had Hogan counted out or why Bundy should be so happy about this? If it was a non-title match, I can see the logic as Bundy/Heenan would be satisfied knowing they gave Hogan his first acknowledged loss in the Fed, but as it was, it seemed they were celebrating the fact they went out of their way to NOT win the title (see: Lex Luger, SummerSlam 93). Was it ever brought up again (ie softening up Hogan for Andre's title win 2 months later) or just one of those weird heel logic issues from the 80s?

[Black Lushus 0]

that Luger/Yoko S.Slam 93 finish is still one of the most bizarre I've ever seen...

[humanoid92 0]

My "WrestleMania that everyone hates but I enjoy" is IX, but I certainly wouldn't vote for that against WM XIX in the "Pick Your Big One" poll this month (not that it really matters to someone with all the WMs anyway).

 

I'm a fan of IX as well. Thought I was the only one. IX only has a bad reputation because of:

 

A) the Hogan stuff at the end and

B) there's not a real blowaway **** match.

 

But what people don't realize about that is this:

 

A) At that point, heels NEVER won at the end of the show. The only exception was Flair, and that was a Rumble. Now, you can argue that they should have booked Bret/Savage, or Bret/Flair, or even Bret/Perfect for the Title match. And that's fine. But once the Yoko match was booked, Yoko almost had to go over Bret. Like it or not, he was getting the monster push and they weren't going to have Bret pin him or have him submit to the Sharpshooter. The only alternative was to have a DQ/CO finish. In the last match of WM. And THAT would have definitely been shitted on. Besides, if Bret wins, where do you go with that? The only possible main event program for him left at that particular point in time would have been Bret vs. heel Narcissist Luger.

 

If the plan really was to use the Hogan thing to build up to Bret vs. Hogan a Summerslam with Bret going over and regaining the Title, that would have been huge. This is still one of those matches I'm disappointed never happened. It would have felt very unique- Hogan had only wrestled big monsters or classic heels like Savage, Orndorff, and DiBiase to that point. The only big face vs. face match he did was against Warrior, who's another superman-type figure. If Hulk were to wrestle Bret it would have been such an odd type of match... I always wanted to see how they'd approach that, and thought if they did it right it would be so big for Bret and such a symbolic moment in the company's change of direction. It's one thing to see Bret beat bigger guys (Bigelow, Razor) or technical wrestlers (Perfect, Flair, Shawn) but to see him use his wrestling to beat a superman like Hogan would have been interesting. Bret had never beaten a superman, and in the rare times Hogan lost, it had always been to another superman or a monster (Andre, Warrior, Taker). Would have been cool.

 

As for the ending of WM 9, yeah, you can say it made Bret look weak, but it also opened the door for him to participate in KOTR, where his performance really put that event on the map and made it mean something in subsequent years when guys like Owen, Austin, etc. won it. And we ended up with the Hart Family rivalry being executed perfectly, with Bret's new Title shot culminating at WM X, so it's not like things didn't work out for the better and this screwed up the whole future of the company.

 

I think Vince was trying to top himself with the Hogan ending. WM VIII featured one of the biggest surprise endings ever- Warrior returning out of nowhere to help out Hogan. It was a huge moment. Vince knew Bret/Yoko wouldn't replicate the heat of Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Savage, Hogan/Warrior, or even Hogan/Slaughter. He had to do something huge, and a second Title switch like that had never been done before. Vince had a history of trying to top himself at WM's. The three locations at WM 2 are an example of this. And what about WM 4? Why do you think we got that unprecedented tournament? Because he knew he had nothing to rival Hogan/Andre from the year before. Same thing with WM 6. The Mega Powers exploding would have been near impossible to top- the only thing that could have done it was Hogan/Warrior, so he went with it. With WM 8, he knew Hogan/Sid would be unsatisfying so he had the Warrior return. This trend continued beyond WM 9 too. After he had the two title switches at WM 9, what did he do for WM 10? Booked two title matches ahead of time. WM 11? Went out and recruited a celebrity. I could go on and on. The point is, Vince felt it necessary to orchestrate a surprise ending, and with circumstances the way they were, the pieces were in place to do that. If Hogan was going to get one last run with the Title, it SHOULD have been a surprise like this instead of with months of build up (which is something that would have hurt Bret's momentum much more). And if Yoko was gonna get beat, it SHOULD have been cheap like this (Yoko did get his win back the only time the actually wrestled a full match).

 

B) It's really hard to have long matches outdoors in the desert in the middle of the day. It's like when everyone criticized the Benoit/Eddie match in Iraq and said they were disappointed... well, they weren't gonna go all out and go 25 minutes because it was 120 degrees and they must have burned up just from lying down on the mat. I'm not saying the conditions at WM IX were as bad as they were in Iraq, but it still must have been hot. Everyone in the togas looked comfortable and Doink's make up started to go after about two minutes. And so, the only two matches that got any time were the IC Title and Tag Title matches. And when Beefcake is prominently involved, you have no right to expect ****

 

The classic matches at WM to that point were ones that exceeded expectations by far. WM 7 didn't have any on-paper classics either, but Warrior stepped up big. WM 6 and WM 5 are only worth anything because of the big Hogan main events. WM 4 only has the tournament gimmick. Even the big WM 8 matches, which I love, were never guaranteed classics. So while it's easy to look back at WM 9 and see that there's no Bret/Owen or Bret/Austin or Shawn/Angle, Shawn/Jericho type match, you've got to remember that at the time Savage/Steamboat, Savage/Warrior and the two big matches from the year before were the only WM matches ever that had jumped out and become classics. And one thing that helped them was that they got plenty of time. It's not like unexpected classics happened every year.

 

The thing about WM 9, though, is that while there are no classics, most of it is really solid. Tatanka/Shawn, Steiners/Shrinkers, Perfect/Luger, Bret/Yoko, and even the Money Inc. match are all pretty good. I've got them all in the **1/2-***1/4 range. Crush/Doink was short and had the really cool Double Doinks angle, which I ate up at the time. Razor/Backlund was only a few minutes, and Taker/Gonzalez, well... we knew that was just gonna be a spectacle anyway, and it did made Taker look invincible.

 

There were no squashes here, except for the Razor match. Going in, several matches were very hard to predict. Shawn's IC Title vs. Tatanka's undefeated streak, Money Inc vs. MegaManiacs with the whole Jimmy Hart issue, Perfect's return to WM vs. the undefeated Luger, Taker as an underdog for once, etc.

 

I'll take a solid card like that any day over something like WMs 5 or 6 which had a big Hogan main event, and a DOZEN predicatable, meaningless 2-8 minute undercard matches. I'll take it over WM 13 which had one awesome match, but the rest was garbage and completely directionless. I'll take it over WM 15, which had a paint by numbers main event and nothing else. So when people say 9 is the worst WM ever it bothers me, because I'll take it over lots of others. I think it's somewhere near the middle of the pack myself.

 

No one ever focuses on the cool parts of WM 9. Like the mini-Luger storyline (with Bret at the brunch, and with Perfect in the match), the way ahead of its time Perfect/Shawn angle (tell me you didn't think it was awesome when the camera followed him through the curtain like that), the mystique of Hogan's eye injury, the five solid matches, the awesome outdoor environment/Caesar gimmick, the top-notch commentary, etc.

 

I know that was long, but much more has been said about the negative side of WM 9... so anyway, Dr. V, whenever you feel it necessary to defend WM 9, I've got your back.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Was it ever explained why Heenan purposely had Hogan counted out or why Bundy should be so happy about this? If it was a non-title match, I can see the logic as Bundy/Heenan would be satisfied knowing they gave Hogan his first acknowledged loss in the Fed, but as it was, it seemed they were celebrating the fact they went out of their way to NOT win the title (see: Lex Luger, SummerSlam 93). Was it ever brought up again (ie softening up Hogan for Andre's title win 2 months later) or just one of those weird heel logic issues from the 80s?

 

Not that it was implied at the time but Bundy did receive a rematch at the next SNME in Jan of 88. Heenan bowed out so Andre could be Bundy's official cornerman.

[tapout 0]

Savage/Hart on SNME was all kinds of awesome. Kidman/Malenko and Benoit/Regal on nitro was great. I havent watched all of Raw yet, but Flash Funk's debut was really good. David Crockett almost ruined the NWA show for me this month. His calling of the matches was fucking horrible. I mean Fuck, I didnt think anybody was worst than Vince.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Wow, that was one detailed analysis of why WrestleMania IX gets a bad rap. I think you undersold the fact that a lot of negativity comes solely due to the Undertaker vs Gonzalez issue, but if you're not watching it live, who cares - just fast forward. I love the setting, the sky, the whole deal. Jim Ross was in a toga - BFD. It was the show's theme. I love Tatanka vs Michaels. Rick Steiner catching one of the Headshrinkers (I forget which) in a belly to belly suplex as he's leaping off the top rope (and Rick is on the other one's shoulders) is an incredible spot. And in 1993, I marked big for Hogan's title win.

 

I threw some votes to WM IX over at WWE.com and noticed it says the March "PYBO" won't be on until March 31st. That's odd.

 

Spring Stampede 94 is next week and I'll be recording that baby for sure.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Re: September 85 MSG show.

 

Wow, Steamboat was over.

 

Also, The "Hart Attack" being done by Bret jumping off the top rope was pretty cool (although it wasn't executed all that smoothly - perhaps why it ended up being a ropes running jump instead).

[tapout 0]

Spring Stampede 94 is next week and I'll be recording that baby for sure.

Oh hell yeah Flair/Steamboat is mos def getting my dvd recording space.

[Guest miketheknife]

I would like to make a suggestion. Since WWE 24/7 is continuing to dub over much of the music in the material presented, I would like to use this forum to post the original themes / promo themes here. Is anyone interested in this?

 

This month, in addition to dubbing over the original Colisseum Video intro, Bam Bam Bigelow's theme music has also been dubbed over, namely on the Saturday Night's Main Event where he faced Hercules. Ironically, Bam Bam's first WWF theme would go on to be Colisseum Video's second theme when they changed the intro to the VHS tapes over and stopped using the intro package that started with the scrolling "For the past 5000 year, pro wrestling.....".

 

Any thoughts?

 

MTK

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Knock yourself out.

 

Like I said, I didn't even know Bam Bam even had a theme that needed to be dubbed over (I'll look for it when I watch WM IV, I guess I usually am FF'ing at that point).

[MillenniumMan831 0]

This month, in addition to dubbing over the original Colisseum Video intro, Bam Bam Bigelow's theme music has also been dubbed over, namely on the Saturday Night's Main Event where he faced Hercules. Ironically, Bam Bam's first WWF theme would go on to be Colisseum Video's second theme when they changed the intro to the VHS tapes over and stopped using the intro package that started with the scrolling "For the past 5000 year, pro wrestling.....".

 

Any thoughts?

 

MTK

 

Not to be an asshole, but that's not correct. They do sound similiar due to saxophones in both tunes, but if you go back and compare them, you'll see that they're two entirely different themes. Sorry I couldn't get a sample of Bam Bam's theme.

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't recall especially detesting WM IX at the time, but let's face it....the booking sucked ass. That stupid shit with Doink and Crush with the various fake Doinks running in and all that. I hated that even at the time. I hated Yokozuna even main eventing the show in the first place, which no one seems to badmouth. I hated a DQ in the tag title match, though we would find out later why that happened. But really, Money Inc. were totally played out by 1993 and needed to job and do something else. HBK/Tatanka was a decent match but again ANOTHER FUCKING DQ/COUNTOUT at WM?

 

I actually have never minded the Hogan stuff at the end of the PPV. I'd take a played out Hogan over Yokozuna any day.

 

WM IV on the other hand. Oh hell yeah! I love that show, have since I was about 8 years old. I think I knew instinctively that Hogan wasn't winning since there was no real point to it. Why go to the trouble of the goofy Main Event screwjob if you're just putting the title back on him? I've always loved tourney shows as well (Survivor Series 98 being another favorite). The show just seems like a big happening, and the only goofy DQ type finish was of course the HTM IC title match with Beefcake.

[Guest miketheknife]

No offense taken MilleniumMan831. Perhaps we should set the record straight. I have the Colisseum version, you want to post Bam Bam Bigelow 1st and we can clear the air on this one?

 

MTK

 

This month, in addition to dubbing over the original Colisseum Video intro, Bam Bam Bigelow's theme music has also been dubbed over, namely on the Saturday Night's Main Event where he faced Hercules. Ironically, Bam Bam's first WWF theme would go on to be Colisseum Video's second theme when they changed the intro to the VHS tapes over and stopped using the intro package that started with the scrolling "For the past 5000 year, pro wrestling.....".

 

Any thoughts?

 

MTK

 

Not to be an asshole, but that's not correct. They do sound similiar due to saxophones in both tunes, but if you go back and compare them, you'll see that they're two entirely different themes.