NBA Roundtable Discussion

[Guest]

The deal still doesn't match salaries, and the Lakers have to add players.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Kobe is one of the best players in the NBA and there are going to be very few players that GMs will refuse to part with. Kirk Hinrich is one of them (Paxson likes him too much).

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I can't see why the Bulls would want to gut their team to land Kobe Bryant. I know he's one of the best players in the NBA and you do everything in your power to make something work, but when the trades involve your starting PG, SF and two young big men, what's the point? You aren't really in a better position to win the title and you are presented with the same problem Kobe had in LA - a Kobe-centered team with no supporting cast.

 

It also doesn't solve their main problem, namely a PF or C who can score at the post. A deal for Gasol or Garnett would have made a lot more sense for the team. Even Zach Randolph with all his baggage could have helped this team. Bryant just improves the team where they don't necessarily need it.

[Ripper 0]

Because Kobe, Lebron, and Dwayne wade are the only guys in the NBA you can surround with moderately talented players in the East and have a realistic chance as the championship.

 

The bulls should have no problem giving away Gordon, Nocioni, Wallace(more realistically Noah though), Thomas and Hinrich for Kobe and one of their young points and one of the Laker bigs(someone like Turiaf).

 

That would still give them a young point, Bryant, Deng, Turiaf and Wallace(or Noah) which will get you deep in the East playoffs. A remaining bench of Duhon, Thabo, and other throw ins like Karl would keep the team solid.

 

As of right now, they have no post up game, and they completely depend on the jumpshot to score. Kobe is and can be a post up threat, much like Jordan was the bulls post up threat. He also draws a double team, something that not a single bulls player now does. Defensively, he is a upgrade over their starting backcourt(although Hinrich is a damn good defender).

 

People say throwing away the team, but they are probably going to lose Gordon or Deng this year(most likely Gordon), Wallace is losing his usefulness and this team is not closer to a championship than they were last year.

 

If they had held on to Tyson Chandler, I say stay pat and let your youth mature. But you mortaged the future on a older player in Wallace and gave yourself a smaller window. Trading those players for Kobe makes the Bulls better (and makes the Lakers better) right now.

[Guest Gym Class Fallout]

Why would the Bulls lose Gordon or Deng? I don't see either leaving in free agency. Paxson isn't gonna let them just go.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The problem with your trade ideas Ripper is that you say a Kobe trade can get them deep in the playoffs. They have a team right now that will get deep in the playoffs. I'd go as far to say they might be the favorites in the East. Unless a Kobe trade makes you so much better that you can win the title outright, it's not worth messing up the team chemistry.

[Ripper 0]

This bulls team will not win in the playoffs because they don't have a real half court offense. It depends COMPLETELY on jump shots. They lack the slashing and the inside presence that the Suns have on offense to survive with jumpshot heavy offense. I just don't think this team could possibly get out the East as all the other top East teams don't have these problems. They can score on the block(well...not Cleveland), have players that demand the double, and don't have any real defensive liabilites.

 

AND they still don't have a single player that will draw a double team. Yeah, they will continue to get into the second round of the playoffs, but with no scoring on the front line, and niether of them being able to hit a freethrow, the lazy take a game offness of Tyrus Thomas and a offense that is completely geared around the perimeter jumpshot, and you have a team that is going to continue to sputter.

 

PLUS you have your best offensive weapon being a defensive liability. Kobe fixes A: The no double team threat B: The Lack of post up game C: The Defensive Liability.

 

I said it last year and I said it this year. In adding Ben Wallace, all the bulls did was pay more money for a older player. And Tyson was a better on the ball defender than Ben Wallace, who depended upon other players to play on the ball D and he could roam free and cause havoc all over the court. As it is, he is just going to get worse at on the ball D, slower on his roaming. He is still going to be effective, but with Tyson, you didn't really have a small window. You had him locked up for what...6 years? Now you have a small window to win with your highest paid player.

 

Make the Kobe trade and not only do you have a chance at the championship, that window just got alot bigger. You still have a young core that can compete for years. And like I said, he gives you that Dwayne Wade/Lebron James factor. I do believe trading for him can get you into the finals. I don't think this team can make it in as they are currently built.

 

And they are going to lose Gordon or Deng. If they don't sign Deng to and extension, which it looks like isn't going to happen, someone is going to throw him a max deal. And if they resign him to that, I don't see Gordon settling for whats left. He is going to want to get paid too, and I wouldn't expect anything less than 6 years at 60 for him. Deng is obviously the priority, so I just don't see them holding on to Gordon unless he is willing to leave some money on the table. (case in point, Cleveland would offer him 10 per in a heart beat)

[Ripper 0]

Reason 60000000 that stu jackson and the NBA brass are idiots.

 

Running forearm to he back of a guys head during a altercation....2 games.

 

Slappy almost punch to a guys face during an altercation...15 games.

 

Try to get to guy that threw punch...4 games.

 

Giving a hard foul and getting punched....6 games.

 

 

What the fuck kind of scale are they using.

[Maztinho 0]

Reason 60000000 that stu jackson and the NBA brass are idiots.

 

Running forearm to he back of a guys head during a altercation....2 games.

 

Slappy almost punch to a guys face during an altercation...15 games.

 

Try to get to guy that threw punch...4 games.

 

Giving a hard foul and getting punched....6 games.

 

 

What the fuck kind of scale are they using.

 

Dartboard?

 

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Make the Kobe trade and not only do you have a chance at the championship, that window just got alot bigger. You still have a young core that can compete for years. And like I said, he gives you that Dwayne Wade/Lebron James factor. I do believe trading for him can get you into the finals. I don't think this team can make it in as they are currently built.

 

If Kobe was an instant Finals contender type player why has he not done it with Odom and Co. in Los Angeles?

[Brett Favre 0]

Because the Suns, Spurs, and Mavs say hi. In the East he'll have a better shot.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Yeah that Cleveland team Lebron took to the Finals this past season wouldn't make it to the first round in the West, if at all.

[Ripper 0]

Sounds like Justin Williams may have secretly taped the encounter between he and the woman that is accusing him by the way his lawyer is talking. And it appears the other person at the house was his girlfriend.

 

So he might be a idiot on the court, but he was smart enough to record his sex with random women.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

My point is if you trade away Hinrich, Gordon, Deng and god knows who else for Kobe, you basically have an inferior version of what Kobe had in Los Angeles. And no, the East is not that substandard that they would be Finals bound with the proposed team.

[Ripper 0]

I didn't give them all away. You don't keep gordon under any circumstances. You have to keep deng, and trade anyone else.

 

That team that I layed out:

 

Duhon

Kobe

Deng

Turiaf

Noah

 

You still have the gritty, hustle defenders in Turiaf and Noah(or Wallace) plus you add Kobe to the defensive backcourt. That is obviously a defensive upgrade and you aren't really losing anything in the front court defensively except maybe a few shot blocks.

 

Offensively this team is alot better because...well..you added Kobe, he can pass out the double team to deadly shooters in Duhon and Deng, and Turiaf and Noah both know how to score around the basket.

 

So basically, with the trade, you definately upgrade offensively and you arguably upgrade defensively and worse case scenario you move laterally.

 

The only thing I think you would sacrafice is the depth that a guy like Nocioni gives you but you still have THabo on the bench, and hell, they could ask the Lakers to throw in one of their points or Cody Karl and the team would still have their depth.

 

No, you don't give up Hinrich, deng AND gordon. But Hinrich and Deng along with Tyrus Thomas and Ben Wallace, I think you are looking at a trade that will make the team better.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Except Duhon is terrible and Paxson doesn't like him too much.

[Ripper 0]

Duhon is a respectable defender, and can shoot the ball on kickouts. THats just about what you need from the point guard on this team.

 

And like I said, the Lakers are sitting on at least 3 points now, if they traded for Hinrich, you would probably get Farmar or Javaris back.

[Guest]

I think Adam Morrison blew out his knee tonight. If he didn't, it sure as hell looked like it.

[dh86 0]

This bulls team will not win in the playoffs because they don't have a real half court offense. It depends COMPLETELY on jump shots. They lack the slashing and the inside presence that the Suns have on offense to survive with jumpshot heavy offense. I just don't think this team could possibly get out the East as all the other top East teams don't have these problems. They can score on the block(well...not Cleveland), have players that demand the double, and don't have any real defensive liabilites.

 

AND they still don't have a single player that will draw a double team. Yeah, they will continue to get into the second round of the playoffs, but with no scoring on the front line, and niether of them being able to hit a freethrow, the lazy take a game offness of Tyrus Thomas and a offense that is completely geared around the perimeter jumpshot, and you have a team that is going to continue to sputter.

 

PLUS you have your best offensive weapon being a defensive liability. Kobe fixes A: The no double team threat B: The Lack of post up game C: The Defensive Liability.

 

I said it last year and I said it this year. In adding Ben Wallace, all the bulls did was pay more money for a older player. And Tyson was a better on the ball defender than Ben Wallace, who depended upon other players to play on the ball D and he could roam free and cause havoc all over the court. As it is, he is just going to get worse at on the ball D, slower on his roaming. He is still going to be effective, but with Tyson, you didn't really have a small window. You had him locked up for what...6 years? Now you have a small window to win with your highest paid player.

 

Make the Kobe trade and not only do you have a chance at the championship, that window just got alot bigger. You still have a young core that can compete for years. And like I said, he gives you that Dwayne Wade/Lebron James factor. I do believe trading for him can get you into the finals. I don't think this team can make it in as they are currently built.

 

And they are going to lose Gordon or Deng. If they don't sign Deng to and extension, which it looks like isn't going to happen, someone is going to throw him a max deal. And if they resign him to that, I don't see Gordon settling for whats left. He is going to want to get paid too, and I wouldn't expect anything less than 6 years at 60 for him. Deng is obviously the priority, so I just don't see them holding on to Gordon unless he is willing to leave some money on the table. (case in point, Cleveland would offer him 10 per in a heart beat)

 

The Bulls could resign Deng and Gordon easily for what Kobe's contract was worth. If you gut the entire roster sans Deng for Kobe, you are not making the championship window bigger, you are making it immensely smaller by tying the entire ship to a man that has 12 years of NBA mileage on his legs already. If you think Kobe is the best player in the NBA, how much longer do you think that will last? a couple more seasons? With the team as is, Chicago can easily contend for the next 6-7 years for the East and be the right role player away from a championship team. Doing the Kobe trade that you proposed erases all of the progress. Rony Turiaf is not an NBA starter in any universe. Neither is Chris Duhon. Your Bulls team would struggle to make the playoffs in the East and quite frankly, are worse than todays Lakers. Kobe would put the kibosh on the trade in a heartbeat.

[dh86 0]

I didn't give them all away. You don't keep gordon under any circumstances. You have to keep deng, and trade anyone else.

 

That team that I layed out:

 

Duhon

Kobe

Deng

Turiaf

Noah

 

You still have the gritty, hustle defenders in Turiaf and Noah(or Wallace) plus you add Kobe to the defensive backcourt. That is obviously a defensive upgrade and you aren't really losing anything in the front court defensively except maybe a few shot blocks.

 

Offensively this team is alot better because...well..you added Kobe, he can pass out the double team to deadly shooters in Duhon and Deng, and Turiaf and Noah both know how to score around the basket.

 

So basically, with the trade, you definately upgrade offensively and you arguably upgrade defensively and worse case scenario you move laterally.

 

The only thing I think you would sacrafice is the depth that a guy like Nocioni gives you but you still have THabo on the bench, and hell, they could ask the Lakers to throw in one of their points or Cody Karl and the team would still have their depth.

 

No, you don't give up Hinrich, deng AND gordon. But Hinrich and Deng along with Tyrus Thomas and Ben Wallace, I think you are looking at a trade that will make the team better.

 

Of course Kobe is a better defender than Gordon but he would have to carry that team on offense reminiscent of 1988 MJ. To think replacing Tyrus,Wallace and Hinrich for 3 guys that would not start on the Charlotte Bobcats would = any type of a defensive upgrade.....I dont know what to say to you

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

I Al Thornton

 

He has been the Clippers leading scorer in the pre-season

 

and had 23 points on 8 of 14 shooting against the Suns today.

 

With Brand out, he is likely to start and will be a dark horse for ROTY

[Fökai 0]

And they are going to lose Gordon or Deng. If they don't sign Deng to and extension, which it looks like isn't going to happen, someone is going to throw him a max deal. And if they resign him to that, I don't see Gordon settling for whats left. He is going to want to get paid too, and I wouldn't expect anything less than 6 years at 60 for him. Deng is obviously the priority, so I just don't see them holding on to Gordon unless he is willing to leave some money on the table. (case in point, Cleveland would offer him 10 per in a heart beat)

 

The Bulls could resign Deng and Gordon easily for what Kobe's contract was worth. If you gut the entire roster sans Deng for Kobe, you are not making the championship window bigger, you are making it immensely smaller by tying the entire ship to a man that has 12 years of NBA mileage on his legs already. If you think Kobe is the best player in the NBA, how much longer do you think that will last? a couple more seasons? With the team as is, Chicago can easily contend for the next 6-7 years for the East and be the right role player away from a championship team. Doing the Kobe trade that you proposed erases all of the progress. Rony Turiaf is not an NBA starter in any universe. Neither is Chris Duhon. Your Bulls team would struggle to make the playoffs in the East and quite frankly, are worse than todays Lakers. Kobe would put the kibosh on the trade in a heartbeat.

 

If you have a legitimate superstar on your team, let alone two, the Bulls don't need a top-level point. Have you SEEN the fucking bums that the Cavs have been trotting out at the point for the last three years? But anyway, Duhon isn't much of a step down from Hinrich, and he sure as hell can't be a worse shooter. The offense still runs smoothly with him in there; it's the matter of the Bulls never being able to sustain runs and leads because their game has no mileage on it. If Gordon goes cold, which happens too damn often, they're fucked. If Deng goes cold, they might as well board the team flight then. Their offense is absolute ass in the paint, which was even more apparent in the playoff series with Detroit, because their perimeter offense doesn't get much better beyond Deng creating his own shot. There's nothing to take the focus off of their post offense, without a consistent shooter that can draw doubles. Maybe Deng can fit that mold with another year under his belt, but he's not going anywhere without help in the backcourt. Enter Kobe.

 

The ideal trade is the one Ripper pointed out: Kobe, Farmar and Turiaf for Hinrich, Gordon, Wallace and Tyrus, with the Bulls being given the option to switch first-rounders in 2008 if so be it. If you want to break it down for Chicago...

 

-we've established why Duhon can supplant Hinrich in the point role. If you don't feel confident in him, try Crittendon or Farmar. JamesOn Curry will also play a big role in the Bulls offense if this trade comes together.

 

--even without the trade talks, I wouldn't want to re-sign Gordon for the money's he going to be asking for. It's going to be a choice between Gordon and Deng come 2008, and the decision's easy.

 

--Wallace matches the salaries, but he's a perfect fit for the Lakers. He's what they need at the 5, and with Mihm and Odom out there, they're going to love him.

 

--Tyrus Thomas = Joakim Noah. Trade him.

 

The Lakers can then gut their rotation to [Hinrich, Gordon, Odom, Bynum and Wallace] as starters, with [Fisher, Sasha, Walton, Tyrus and Mihm] off the bench, with Crittendon and Karl contributing. That leaves Buss to get Vlad and Kwame on the first flight out of Los Angeles.

 

The Bulls will come up with [Duhon, Kobe, Deng, Turiaf and Noah], with Farmar, Curry, Thabo, Nocioni, Gray and Joe Smith. Not a sexy team, but one without a weakness that can be exposed on a consistent basis. Kobe (and later Deng) commanding double teams leaves opportunities for a guy like Curry, and well, Curry, to burn teams. As said before, Turiaf, Noah and Gray can all become solid offensive contributors with an open lane.

 

If this trade is even remotely possible, Paxson should do it. This is the best offer on the board outside of Phoenix.

[Ripper 0]

Rony Turiaf is not an NBA starter in any universe.

 

 

Please explain to me the difference between Noah and/or Wallace and Turiaf? All high energy hustle guys that given the right minutes will net you good numbers.

 

Only Turiaf is much better offensively than both of them, and Wallace is able to stay out of foul trouble better than Turiaf.

[dh86 0]

Rony Turiaf is not an NBA starter in any universe.

 

 

Please explain to me the difference between Noah and/or Wallace and Turiaf? All high energy hustle guys that given the right minutes will net you good numbers.

 

Only Turiaf is much better offensively than both of them, and Wallace is able to stay out of foul trouble better than Turiaf.

 

Much better offensively? HOW? Am I missing the deadly Rony Turiaf jumper? You can to a random ABA team and find a Rony Turiaf. Ben Wallace may be on the downside of his career but hes still one of the top rebounders and defenders in the NBA and far more than a "high energy hustle player". Rony Turiaf may not even be in the NBA next year much less ever average 10 reb a game.

[dh86 0]

And they are going to lose Gordon or Deng. If they don't sign Deng to and extension, which it looks like isn't going to happen, someone is going to throw him a max deal. And if they resign him to that, I don't see Gordon settling for whats left. He is going to want to get paid too, and I wouldn't expect anything less than 6 years at 60 for him. Deng is obviously the priority, so I just don't see them holding on to Gordon unless he is willing to leave some money on the table. (case in point, Cleveland would offer him 10 per in a heart beat)

 

The Bulls could resign Deng and Gordon easily for what Kobe's contract was worth. If you gut the entire roster sans Deng for Kobe, you are not making the championship window bigger, you are making it immensely smaller by tying the entire ship to a man that has 12 years of NBA mileage on his legs already. If you think Kobe is the best player in the NBA, how much longer do you think that will last? a couple more seasons? With the team as is, Chicago can easily contend for the next 6-7 years for the East and be the right role player away from a championship team. Doing the Kobe trade that you proposed erases all of the progress. Rony Turiaf is not an NBA starter in any universe. Neither is Chris Duhon. Your Bulls team would struggle to make the playoffs in the East and quite frankly, are worse than todays Lakers. Kobe would put the kibosh on the trade in a heartbeat.

 

If you have a legitimate superstar on your team, let alone two, the Bulls don't need a top-level point. Have you SEEN the fucking bums that the Cavs have been trotting out at the point for the last three years? But anyway, Duhon isn't much of a step down from Hinrich, and he sure as hell can't be a worse shooter. The offense still runs smoothly with him in there; it's the matter of the Bulls never being able to sustain runs and leads because their game has no mileage on it. If Gordon goes cold, which happens too damn often, they're fucked. If Deng goes cold, they might as well board the team flight then. Their offense is absolute ass in the paint, which was even more apparent in the playoff series with Detroit, because their perimeter offense doesn't get much better beyond Deng creating his own shot. There's nothing to take the focus off of their post offense, without a consistent shooter that can draw doubles. Maybe Deng can fit that mold with another year under his belt, but he's not going anywhere without help in the backcourt. Enter Kobe.

 

The ideal trade is the one Ripper pointed out: Kobe, Farmar and Turiaf for Hinrich, Gordon, Wallace and Tyrus, with the Bulls being given the option to switch first-rounders in 2008 if so be it. If you want to break it down for Chicago...

 

-we've established why Duhon can supplant Hinrich in the point role. If you don't feel confident in him, try Crittendon or Farmar. JamesOn Curry will also play a big role in the Bulls offense if this trade comes together.

 

--even without the trade talks, I wouldn't want to re-sign Gordon for the money's he going to be asking for. It's going to be a choice between Gordon and Deng come 2008, and the decision's easy.

 

--Wallace matches the salaries, but he's a perfect fit for the Lakers. He's what they need at the 5, and with Mihm and Odom out there, they're going to love him.

 

--Tyrus Thomas = Joakim Noah. Trade him.

 

The Lakers can then gut their rotation to [Hinrich, Gordon, Odom, Bynum and Wallace] as starters, with [Fisher, Sasha, Walton, Tyrus and Mihm] off the bench, with Crittendon and Karl contributing. That leaves Buss to get Vlad and Kwame on the first flight out of Los Angeles.

 

The Bulls will come up with [Duhon, Kobe, Deng, Turiaf and Noah], with Farmar, Curry, Thabo, Nocioni, Gray and Joe Smith. Not a sexy team, but one without a weakness that can be exposed on a consistent basis. Kobe (and later Deng) commanding double teams leaves opportunities for a guy like Curry, and well, Curry, to burn teams. As said before, Turiaf, Noah and Gray can all become solid offensive contributors with an open lane.

 

If this trade is even remotely possible, Paxson should do it. This is the best offer on the board outside of Phoenix.

 

Rony Turiaf would never start ahead of Joe Smith. Smith and Noah would still be possibly the worst C/PF combination in the NBA. Would the Bulls be making the trade to win the East or to win the Championship. Getting by with iffy role players in the starting lineup may work when you have Kobe along with Shaq in his prime. This isnt 2000 and this isnt LA. You need a complete roster to win the NBA championship. The getting 2 superstars and letting the rest sort itself out by and large does not work. Especially when the second star is Loul Deng who is not a superstar. Houston found that out and Boston will this season. How would the Pistons not sweep this Bulls team? This Bulls team would be competing with Orlando for a playoff spot.

 

[Maztinho 0]

And they are going to lose Gordon or Deng. If they don't sign Deng to and extension, which it looks like isn't going to happen, someone is going to throw him a max deal. And if they resign him to that, I don't see Gordon settling for whats left. He is going to want to get paid too, and I wouldn't expect anything less than 6 years at 60 for him. Deng is obviously the priority, so I just don't see them holding on to Gordon unless he is willing to leave some money on the table. (case in point, Cleveland would offer him 10 per in a heart beat)

 

The Bulls could resign Deng and Gordon easily for what Kobe's contract was worth. If you gut the entire roster sans Deng for Kobe, you are not making the championship window bigger, you are making it immensely smaller by tying the entire ship to a man that has 12 years of NBA mileage on his legs already. If you think Kobe is the best player in the NBA, how much longer do you think that will last? a couple more seasons? With the team as is, Chicago can easily contend for the next 6-7 years for the East and be the right role player away from a championship team. Doing the Kobe trade that you proposed erases all of the progress. Rony Turiaf is not an NBA starter in any universe. Neither is Chris Duhon. Your Bulls team would struggle to make the playoffs in the East and quite frankly, are worse than todays Lakers. Kobe would put the kibosh on the trade in a heartbeat.

 

If you have a legitimate superstar on your team, let alone two, the Bulls don't need a top-level point. Have you SEEN the fucking bums that the Cavs have been trotting out at the point for the last three years? But anyway, Duhon isn't much of a step down from Hinrich, and he sure as hell can't be a worse shooter. The offense still runs smoothly with him in there; it's the matter of the Bulls never being able to sustain runs and leads because their game has no mileage on it. If Gordon goes cold, which happens too damn often, they're fucked. If Deng goes cold, they might as well board the team flight then. Their offense is absolute ass in the paint, which was even more apparent in the playoff series with Detroit, because their perimeter offense doesn't get much better beyond Deng creating his own shot. There's nothing to take the focus off of their post offense, without a consistent shooter that can draw doubles. Maybe Deng can fit that mold with another year under his belt, but he's not going anywhere without help in the backcourt. Enter Kobe.

 

The ideal trade is the one Ripper pointed out: Kobe, Farmar and Turiaf for Hinrich, Gordon, Wallace and Tyrus, with the Bulls being given the option to switch first-rounders in 2008 if so be it. If you want to break it down for Chicago...

 

-we've established why Duhon can supplant Hinrich in the point role. If you don't feel confident in him, try Crittendon or Farmar. JamesOn Curry will also play a big role in the Bulls offense if this trade comes together.

 

--even without the trade talks, I wouldn't want to re-sign Gordon for the money's he going to be asking for. It's going to be a choice between Gordon and Deng come 2008, and the decision's easy.

 

--Wallace matches the salaries, but he's a perfect fit for the Lakers. He's what they need at the 5, and with Mihm and Odom out there, they're going to love him.

 

--Tyrus Thomas = Joakim Noah. Trade him.

 

The Lakers can then gut their rotation to [Hinrich, Gordon, Odom, Bynum and Wallace] as starters, with [Fisher, Sasha, Walton, Tyrus and Mihm] off the bench, with Crittendon and Karl contributing. That leaves Buss to get Vlad and Kwame on the first flight out of Los Angeles.

 

The Bulls will come up with [Duhon, Kobe, Deng, Turiaf and Noah], with Farmar, Curry, Thabo, Nocioni, Gray and Joe Smith. Not a sexy team, but one without a weakness that can be exposed on a consistent basis. Kobe (and later Deng) commanding double teams leaves opportunities for a guy like Curry, and well, Curry, to burn teams. As said before, Turiaf, Noah and Gray can all become solid offensive contributors with an open lane.

 

If this trade is even remotely possible, Paxson should do it. This is the best offer on the board outside of Phoenix.

 

Rony Turiaf would never start ahead of Joe Smith. Smith and Noah would still be possibly the worst C/PF combination in the NBA. Would the Bulls be making the trade to win the East or to win the Championship. Getting by with iffy role players in the starting lineup may work when you have Kobe along with Shaq in his prime. This isnt 2000 and this isnt LA. You need a complete roster to win the NBA championship. The getting 2 superstars and letting the rest sort itself out by and large does not work. Especially when the second star is Loul Deng who is not a superstar. Houston found that out and Boston will this season. How would the Pistons not sweep this Bulls team? This Bulls team would be competing with Orlando for a playoff spot.

 

Doesn't Beantown actually have 3 Superstars?

 

And Houston is in the stronger west, in the East the Bulls could get it done and pull off something in the Finals, so you can't really put them in the same boat either.

 

Why do you hate Turiaf? Did he steal your lunch money?

[dh86 0]

And they are going to lose Gordon or Deng. If they don't sign Deng to and extension, which it looks like isn't going to happen, someone is going to throw him a max deal. And if they resign him to that, I don't see Gordon settling for whats left. He is going to want to get paid too, and I wouldn't expect anything less than 6 years at 60 for him. Deng is obviously the priority, so I just don't see them holding on to Gordon unless he is willing to leave some money on the table. (case in point, Cleveland would offer him 10 per in a heart beat)

 

The Bulls could resign Deng and Gordon easily for what Kobe's contract was worth. If you gut the entire roster sans Deng for Kobe, you are not making the championship window bigger, you are making it immensely smaller by tying the entire ship to a man that has 12 years of NBA mileage on his legs already. If you think Kobe is the best player in the NBA, how much longer do you think that will last? a couple more seasons? With the team as is, Chicago can easily contend for the next 6-7 years for the East and be the right role player away from a championship team. Doing the Kobe trade that you proposed erases all of the progress. Rony Turiaf is not an NBA starter in any universe. Neither is Chris Duhon. Your Bulls team would struggle to make the playoffs in the East and quite frankly, are worse than todays Lakers. Kobe would put the kibosh on the trade in a heartbeat.

 

If you have a legitimate superstar on your team, let alone two, the Bulls don't need a top-level point. Have you SEEN the fucking bums that the Cavs have been trotting out at the point for the last three years? But anyway, Duhon isn't much of a step down from Hinrich, and he sure as hell can't be a worse shooter. The offense still runs smoothly with him in there; it's the matter of the Bulls never being able to sustain runs and leads because their game has no mileage on it. If Gordon goes cold, which happens too damn often, they're fucked. If Deng goes cold, they might as well board the team flight then. Their offense is absolute ass in the paint, which was even more apparent in the playoff series with Detroit, because their perimeter offense doesn't get much better beyond Deng creating his own shot. There's nothing to take the focus off of their post offense, without a consistent shooter that can draw doubles. Maybe Deng can fit that mold with another year under his belt, but he's not going anywhere without help in the backcourt. Enter Kobe.

 

The ideal trade is the one Ripper pointed out: Kobe, Farmar and Turiaf for Hinrich, Gordon, Wallace and Tyrus, with the Bulls being given the option to switch first-rounders in 2008 if so be it. If you want to break it down for Chicago...

 

-we've established why Duhon can supplant Hinrich in the point role. If you don't feel confident in him, try Crittendon or Farmar. JamesOn Curry will also play a big role in the Bulls offense if this trade comes together.

 

--even without the trade talks, I wouldn't want to re-sign Gordon for the money's he going to be asking for. It's going to be a choice between Gordon and Deng come 2008, and the decision's easy.

 

--Wallace matches the salaries, but he's a perfect fit for the Lakers. He's what they need at the 5, and with Mihm and Odom out there, they're going to love him.

 

--Tyrus Thomas = Joakim Noah. Trade him.

 

The Lakers can then gut their rotation to [Hinrich, Gordon, Odom, Bynum and Wallace] as starters, with [Fisher, Sasha, Walton, Tyrus and Mihm] off the bench, with Crittendon and Karl contributing. That leaves Buss to get Vlad and Kwame on the first flight out of Los Angeles.

 

The Bulls will come up with [Duhon, Kobe, Deng, Turiaf and Noah], with Farmar, Curry, Thabo, Nocioni, Gray and Joe Smith. Not a sexy team, but one without a weakness that can be exposed on a consistent basis. Kobe (and later Deng) commanding double teams leaves opportunities for a guy like Curry, and well, Curry, to burn teams. As said before, Turiaf, Noah and Gray can all become solid offensive contributors with an open lane.

 

If this trade is even remotely possible, Paxson should do it. This is the best offer on the board outside of Phoenix.

 

Rony Turiaf would never start ahead of Joe Smith. Smith and Noah would still be possibly the worst C/PF combination in the NBA. Would the Bulls be making the trade to win the East or to win the Championship. Getting by with iffy role players in the starting lineup may work when you have Kobe along with Shaq in his prime. This isnt 2000 and this isnt LA. You need a complete roster to win the NBA championship. The getting 2 superstars and letting the rest sort itself out by and large does not work. Especially when the second star is Loul Deng who is not a superstar. Houston found that out and Boston will this season. How would the Pistons not sweep this Bulls team? This Bulls team would be competing with Orlando for a playoff spot.

 

Doesn't Beantown actually have 3 Superstars?

 

And Houston is in the stronger west, in the East the Bulls could get it done and pull off something in the Finals, so you can't really put them in the same boat either.

 

Why do you hate Turiaf? Did he steal your lunch money?

 

If you are making a drastic trade like that while still having the same chance at the NBA title, that defeats the purpose of the trade. I dont hate Turiaf at all. Its just that he isnt a good player that any other team would desire in a trade.

[Ripper 0]

Rony Turiaf is not an NBA starter in any universe.

 

 

Please explain to me the difference between Noah and/or Wallace and Turiaf? All high energy hustle guys that given the right minutes will net you good numbers.

 

Only Turiaf is much better offensively than both of them, and Wallace is able to stay out of foul trouble better than Turiaf.

 

Much better offensively? HOW? Am I missing the deadly Rony Turiaf jumper? You can to a random ABA team and find a Rony Turiaf. Ben Wallace may be on the downside of his career but hes still one of the top rebounders and defenders in the NBA and far more than a "high energy hustle player". Rony Turiaf may not even be in the NBA next year much less ever average 10 reb a game.

 

 

How? In every concievable way. He has a hook shot with both hands, a better finisher at the basket and has a consistant jumper out ot 10-15 feet.

 

And yes, Ben Wallace is a high energy hustle player. He doesn't play well defensively on...well...anyone. off the ball, he is as dangerous as most people to play the game, but on the ball he is what he is...a undersized Center that gets abused in the post by anyone not name Big Z.

 

Turiaf, isn't as good off the as Wallace(like I said...there are very few guys that are) but on the ball he is a stronger, longer and better defender. He isn't as consistant as a big rebounder as Wallace, but he is a hell of a defensive and offensive rebounder.

 

Just like last year when I said the bulls weren't really gaining anything with the trade of Chandler and adding Wallace, they really wouldn't lose too much if they were to use Noah and Turiaff in his spot now.

[dh86 0]

Rony Turiaf is not an NBA starter in any universe.

 

 

Please explain to me the difference between Noah and/or Wallace and Turiaf? All high energy hustle guys that given the right minutes will net you good numbers.

 

Only Turiaf is much better offensively than both of them, and Wallace is able to stay out of foul trouble better than Turiaf.

 

Much better offensively? HOW? Am I missing the deadly Rony Turiaf jumper? You can to a random ABA team and find a Rony Turiaf. Ben Wallace may be on the downside of his career but hes still one of the top rebounders and defenders in the NBA and far more than a "high energy hustle player". Rony Turiaf may not even be in the NBA next year much less ever average 10 reb a game.

 

 

How? In every concievable way. He has a hook shot with both hands, a better finisher at the basket and has a consistant jumper out ot 10-15 feet.

 

And yes, Ben Wallace is a high energy hustle player. He doesn't play well defensively on...well...anyone. off the ball, he is as dangerous as most people to play the game, but on the ball he is what he is...a undersized Center that gets abused in the post by anyone not name Big Z.

 

Turiaf, isn't as good off the as Wallace(like I said...there are very few guys that are) but on the ball he is a stronger, longer and better defender. He isn't as consistant as a big rebounder as Wallace, but he is a hell of a defensive and offensive rebounder.

 

Just like last year when I said the bulls weren't really gaining anything with the trade of Chandler and adding Wallace, they really wouldn't lose too much if they were to use Noah and Turiaff in his spot now.

 

High-energy hustle players are players like Jerome Williams or Ronald Dupree who has no discernable skills aside from trying hard and are usually out of the NBA as fast as they step in. The NBDL are full of those types.Ben Wallace far surpassed that level as an NBA player. Chicago jumped ten spots in defensive rankings last year with the addition of Ben. Ben has always been a very good on the ball defender. Dont kid yourself, he is a elite off the ball defender so coaches are more apt to use him in that way. But dont listen to me, I only watched every game he played for 6 years. As Ben Wallace's game starts to diminish, I expect Tyrus Thomas to fill into those shoes perfectly making you bringing up Chandler irrelevant. If Chicago replaced Ben Wallace with Rony Turiaf at center, John Paxson would be waving to us from the Draft Lottery in May.

[alfdogg 0]

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