NBA Roundtable Discussion

[Brett Favre 0]

And with that, the Kings have pulled out

 

Down to 2 teams I guess.

[Ripper 0]

If Philly were to take say Zaza Pachulia, Speedy Claxton and Marvin Williams I would be all for the trade for Iverson.

 

That would put Iverson, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Sheldon Williams, Lorenzen Wright

 

with Tyrone Lue, Salim Stoudimire, Josh Childress, Matt Fregie and Solomon Jones as backups.

 

I could live with that.

[Brett Favre 0]

They'd probably ask for Williams + either the other Williams or Childress and a pick.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Is it crazy to suggest that Steve Nash could win another MVP award this season? He's having career highs in FG%, 3PT%, PPG, rebounds and assists. The Suns are clicking and starting to look like one of the best teams in the NBA, and it's basically because of him.

[chaosrage 0]

Is it crazy to suggest that Steve Nash could win another MVP award this season? He's having career highs in FG%, 3PT%, PPG, rebounds and assists. The Suns are clicking and starting to look like one of the best teams in the NBA, and it's basically because of him.

 

Right now, I can't see how you could argue anything but Nash. It's only a matter if he keeps it up.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

naiwf would certainly try.

[Guest NYankees]

Is Kobe24kgold still a member on this site? I remember his avatar was a picture of Kobe dunking on Nash in the shape of the mvp award. When in the world is AI going to be traded? Are there any new updates?

[Guest]

Kobe for MVP.

[naiwf 0]

I already said Nash was going to win another undeserved MVP this year as long as the Suns win at least one more game than last year because of course adding Amare back to the mix has nothing to do with Phoenix' success. He's the only guy in pro sports who will have won the MVP 3 times for 3 different reasons over 3 fields that had more deserving people in the mix. It's a fucking joke.

[alfdogg 0]

I'd like to see Dwight Howard at least get a mention, but if you play in the Eastern conference and your name's not LeBron or Wade, you won't get one.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

last year Dirk should have won it.

[Narcoleptic Jumper 0]

I already said Nash was going to win another undeserved MVP this year as long as the Suns win at least one more game than last year because of course adding Amare back to the mix has nothing to do with Phoenix' success. He's the only guy in pro sports who will have won the MVP 3 times for 3 different reasons over 3 fields that had more deserving people in the mix. It's a fucking joke.

 

have you ever even watched the guy play? I ask this with all seriousness.

[Brett Favre 0]

Honestly, with the team record, and his numbers at career highs, he should win it again.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Honestly, with the team record, and his numbers at career highs, he should win it again.

 

I agree with you, CW. There were other candidates who you could make an argument for the past couple of seasons, but none of them were robbed. Nash was the best choice each of the past two years, and he is emerging as the top choice again. In my lifetime, I've never seen a team's offensive success so dependent on the play of one person. That offense goes because of Nash. Sure, he plays with other good players, but I think part of the reason they look that good is because of what he does from the point guard position.

 

Does anyone have espn insider? Hollinger had an article up yesterday stating that Nash will probably go down as the best post-30 point guard of all time, and that what he is doing now is completely unprecedented. Magic, Oscar, Maravich, KJ and a host of others were all out of the league by their age 32 season, whereas Nash is having a career year. Interesting stuff.

[Precious Roy 0]

Does anyone have espn insider? Hollinger had an article up yesterday stating that Nash will probably go down as the best post-30 point guard of all time, and that what he is doing now is completely unprecedented.

 

John Stockton and Gary Payton would disagree

[Guest]

Just to relay something I've been hearing a lot, if there's a 3 team deal for Iverson, the Lakers would like to be the 3rd team. If something would have went down with Golden State, the Lakers would have been trying to land Baron Davis.

 

Some guy on the radio said that AI wants to go to Miami or Los Angeles.

[therealworldschampion 0]

Apparently according to CSN, Billy King has been consulting with LARRY BROWN on all potential Iverson deals.

 

Sweet, maybe we can trade AI for Tyrone Hill and Derrick Coleman. Friggin unbelieveable...

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Apparently according to CSN, Billy King has been consulting with LARRY BROWN on all potential Iverson deals.

 

Sweet, maybe we can trade AI for Tyrone Hill and Derrick Coleman. Friggin unbelieveable...

 

Doesn't matter who he's consulting with, Billy King will find a way to royally screw up the Iverson trade.

[Precious Roy 0]

James Posey (1 yr, 6.5 mil) and Jason Williams (2 yr, 8.5 mil) would give Philly some cap relief, and the contracts match up enough to make a deal possible, but Miami doesn't have the young players or high picks that the 6ers want. I don't think Dorrell Wright, Wayne Simeon and a high teens-mid 20's pick cut it. They're going to have to involve a non-playoff team to facilitate a deal, though the problem then becomes what would that 3rd team get in return for giving up a lottery pick in what projects to be a stacked draft?

 

How about this, done using ESPN's trade machine?

 

Miami gets: Allen Iverson

Portland gets: James Posey, Kevin Ollie, Dorell Wright, cash

Philadelphia gets: Jason Williams, Darius Miles, Jamaal Magloire, Portland #1 pick, Miami #1 pick

 

Philly gets one big expiring contract (Magloire, 8.5 mil), one that expires after 07-08 (Williams, 8.25 per), a lottery pick from Portland and a mid first rounder from Miami. They'd have to take on Miles' albatross, but after clearing over 30 million in cap space between Magloire, Williams and Webber it won't look so bad. Portland swaps for a couple expiring contracts (Posey and Ollie), gets a promising young player (Wright) and finally finds a taker for the untradeable Miles.

[naiwf 0]

I already said Nash was going to win another undeserved MVP this year as long as the Suns win at least one more game than last year because of course adding Amare back to the mix has nothing to do with Phoenix' success. He's the only guy in pro sports who will have won the MVP 3 times for 3 different reasons over 3 fields that had more deserving people in the mix. It's a fucking joke.

 

have you ever even watched the guy play? I ask this with all seriousness.

 

How can the same guy win the same award for the following reasons in 3 straight seasons in the same league?

 

2 years ago - According to the dolts who voted he got the nod over Shaq because Phx had a bigger improvement in wins than Miami. Therefore Nash was most valuable because he caused the biggest growth in victories. Keep in mind that Nash (1st team All-NBA), Amare (2nd team) and Marion (3rd team) constituted 3 of the league's top 15 players that year. You SHOULD win 60 games with 20% of the best players in the league on the same team. And they still couldn't make the finals even with STEVE NASH~ bitches. And Dallas got better too, but that didn't count.

 

Last year - According to the dolts who voted he got the nod over Dirk, Kobe, LeBron and Wade, because more guys on Phx had career years than the secondary guys on the other teams. Therefore Nash was most valuable because he caused the biggest statistical improvement in his teammates. Keep in mind that Amare's absence freed up those minutes, but that's not important because it's STEVE NASH~ bitches.

 

This year - According to the dolts who will vote this year he'll again get the nod over Dirk, Kobe, LeBron and Wade, as well as guys like Dwight Howard because he's 30+, and getting better statistically. Therefore Nash will be most valuable because after 2 MVP seasons he somehow outdid himself. Keep in mind that guys who will champion Nash again didn't vote for Dirk, Kobe, LeBron or Wade based on those criteria last year, and that Dwight Howard will probably lead the league in rebounding and that either Orlando or Utah (Boozer) will have the biggest improvement in win differential (but neither guy will finish Top 5 in the MVP race) but that's not important because it's STEVE NASH~ bitches aka the greatest player in the history of the world. Even MJ never won 3 straight, hence this is bullshit.

[Narcoleptic Jumper 0]

yeah well, I don't have enough knowledge of the game's ins and outs to write any kind of formal response to what you said, so I'll just say that Nash is God and leave it at that.

[Gert T 0]

Do you think it is always beneficial for these non-playoff teams to hop into these deals. They usually get cap relief, but its not like they are very attractive markets for the top level free agent guys?

 

Naiwf, while I don't agree with your stance, I certainly do appreciate that you back your position up. I think in the last two years no candidate separated themselves enough. I thought it could have been reasonable if any of the following 5 (Nash, Kobe, Dirk, LeBron, Wade) would have won.

 

I agree with you too that after a month and a half Boozer has to be at least in the discussion.

[alfdogg 0]

I'd say Yao Ming has a hell of an argument, too, should the Rockets continue their current pace.

[Chuck Woolery 0]

it's gotta be dwight howard, honestly.

 

i know he's eastern conference and all but that kid is a beast and the whole orlando team feeds off that.

[naiwf 0]

Do you think it is always beneficial for these non-playoff teams to hop into these deals. They usually get cap relief, but its not like they are very attractive markets for the top level free agent guys?

 

Naiwf, while I don't agree with your stance, I certainly do appreciate that you back your position up. I think in the last two years no candidate separated themselves enough. I thought it could have been reasonable if any of the following 5 (Nash, Kobe, Dirk, LeBron, Wade) would have won.

 

I agree with you too that after a month and a half Boozer has to be at least in the discussion.

 

That's the whole thing that irks me about Nash winning last year. In the past Jordan was the default guy, but in the years where someone else could have easily matched his importance the other guy always won ('89 Magic w/MJ 2nd, '90 Magic w/MJ 3rd, '93 Barkley w/MJ 3rd, '97 Mailman w/MJ 2nd). Nash wasn't the runaway choice last year (I had him at # 4 or 5) and yet they still gave him the benefit of the doubt although he won his second for a completely different reason than his first as I explained earlier. This year there are going to be at least 5 to 8 legit candidates and if he wins again it's just retarded.

[Precious Roy 0]

Howard has a horrible assist-TO ratio and shoots .66% from the line. He's a beast, but he's not winning an MVP award yet. And Orlando has lost 5 of their last 7, they're coming back to earth.

 

If you want to bring a newcomer into the MVP argument, how about Carmelo Anthony? Denver has the same winning % as Orlando in a much tougher conference, he's scoring 31 pts a night on 50% shooting, putting up 8 or 9 FTs a night and actually making 80% of them, and in the top 15 in steals. He'd get my vote before Howard, as would both Wade and LeBron.

[nogoodnick 0]

How about this, done using ESPN's trade machine?

 

Miami gets: Allen Iverson

Portland gets: James Posey, Kevin Ollie, Dorell Wright, cash

Philadelphia gets: Jason Williams, Darius Miles, Jamaal Magloire, Portland #1 pick, Miami #1 pick

 

Philly gets one big expiring contract (Magloire, 8.5 mil), one that expires after 07-08 (Williams, 8.25 per), a lottery pick from Portland and a mid first rounder from Miami. They'd have to take on Miles' albatross, but after clearing over 30 million in cap space between Magloire, Williams and Webber it won't look so bad. Portland swaps for a couple expiring contracts (Posey and Ollie), gets a promising young player (Wright) and finally finds a taker for the untradeable Miles.

Portland basically loses nothing in this scenario except for that draft pick which could be a very good player in this next class. Miles is worthless and Magloire is close to it. Would it be worth losing that draft pick if it meant unloading Darius Miles? Yeah probably. If Miami actually wants AI then this isn't too bad for any of these teams because Philly is going no where fast and could end up with two top 10 or even top 5 draft picks.

[Ripper 0]

Do you think it is always beneficial for these non-playoff teams to hop into these deals. They usually get cap relief, but its not like they are very attractive markets for the top level free agent guys?

 

Naiwf, while I don't agree with your stance, I certainly do appreciate that you back your position up. I think in the last two years no candidate separated themselves enough. I thought it could have been reasonable if any of the following 5 (Nash, Kobe, Dirk, LeBron, Wade) would have won.

 

I agree with you too that after a month and a half Boozer has to be at least in the discussion.

 

That's the whole thing that irks me about Nash winning last year. In the past Jordan was the default guy, but in the years where someone else could have easily matched his importance the other guy always won ('89 Magic w/MJ 2nd, '90 Magic w/MJ 3rd, '93 Barkley w/MJ 3rd, '97 Mailman w/MJ 2nd). Nash wasn't the runaway choice last year (I had him at # 4 or 5) and yet they still gave him the benefit of the doubt although he won his second for a completely different reason than his first as I explained earlier. This year there are going to be at least 5 to 8 legit candidates and if he wins again it's just retarded.

 

 

I don't see how you can argue the first one. The closest person behind him was Shaq, and everyone likes to forget that the Heat went to the Eastern Semis and game 7 of it at that the year before. Plus wade missed ALOT of games in the regular season which was the only reason their record was what it was. It was a very good team.

 

The suns were a lottery team. You are honestly going to sit here and say a team that basically adds one player and goes from lottery to the best record in the league and he doesn't deserve the MVP. They went from one of the worse to one of the best in one year after adding Nash to the exact same rotation they had the year before.

 

The second one, I will agree with arguements, although I honestly think that the race ended with Nash, Dirk, and Billups. The flaw in your argument: If Nash didn't deserve the first award because of having amare and marion, why does he not get credit when the team wins without Amare? I still say Dirk was the MVP with Billips second and Nash third last year, but seroiusly, Lebron and Kobe? Get outta here with that. ESPECIALLY Kobe.

 

This year, so far, noone should be mentioned that isn't Carlos Boozer or Steve Nash. Howard is still inconsistant but is about one year from becaome the most dominant player in the game. Joe Johnson was right there until his injury(although all the Hawks blowout losses without him really does show how much of the team he really was/is) and Kobe is definately playing like a MVP this year (unlike last year)

 

My top 3 so far are Nash, Boozer, Kobe in that order. I don't expect Boozer to keep playing at this level and Nash might fall off some so I am expecting Kobe, if he keeps playing good basketball like he is now and not the I can score on anyone at anytime basketball like last year, should win the MVP.

[naiwf 0]

I have less of a gripe about Nash winning his first than his second. I just don't like the idea that people seem to forget that 3/5 of their starters made the All-NBA squads and that it wasn't Nash and 11 jobbers posting 60+ wins. You can't start awarding MVPs based on how much better a winner played the following year especially when there were 4 or 5 other candidates who were equally or more valuable in year # 2. The race was Dirk's to win last year and he got shafted which leads me to believe that even if he were to average 30 & 10 and Dallas wins 65 games he won't get the MVP if Nash plays better than he did the last two years. It's just flawed logic at this point to keep giving Nash the MVP for different reasons and exclude guys who have done enough to win it but aren't the cute pick like he was last year.

[alfdogg 0]

Some more Iverson stuff.

 

Speculation is that the Jazz are trying to get involved, not to acquire AI, but possibly as part of a three-team deal which would keep him from going to division rivals Denver or Minnesota. - Salt Lake Tribune

 

Bulls: P.J. Brown joined a growing list of the disenchanted that includes Corey Maggette and Troy Murphy. But don't expect Brown to be traded anytime soon. He has an expiring contract worth about $8.6 million, which is what the 76ers are looking for to cut payroll. The Bulls took a flier on getting Marcus Camby for Brown, but the Nuggets can't trade Camby with their excess of injured big men. And the Bulls have to retain Brown in case a big-time player like Kevin Garnett or Pau Gasol comes on the market. If the Timberwolves don't get Iverson and collapse, well, you never know. Brown should plan to be here until well into February.

 

Warriors: When the season started, Golden State was promoting Murphy for All-Star center. Now he's the odd man out, which is odd because coach Don Nelson usually prefers perimeter big men. But poor defense, a lack of speed and more than $50 million left on his contract has Murphy in limbo. Baron Davis' name came up, and you knew it wouldn't be long before Nelson tired of his act, though Davis got scared straight with the thought of going to Philadelphia. You probably could get Jason Richardson because of his knee problems and certainly Mike Dunleavy and Adonal Foyle.

 

Celtics: Everyone is available except Paul Pierce, who had the line of the week in explaining why he'd love to play with Iverson: "I think it would work out with the two of us. I played with the biggest jacker in league history in Antoine Walker, didn't I? He was just jacking up shots. At least Iverson might go hit them at a higher clip and get to the free-throw line." How many playoff series have you won without Walker, again?

 

Raptors: Morris Peterson, for starters.

 

Hawks: They were an active pursuer last summer but haven't been heard from without enough expiring big contracts.

 

Pacers: Stephen Jackson, of course, and probably anyone else in the right deal. Doubt that JO, Al or Granger go anywhere.

 

Grizzlies: Gasol is back and admitted to a reporter it will be hard to be successful in Memphis. The Grizzlies may have the best package for Iverson with Gasol (a good second option), Eddie Jones' expiring contract and young players such as Kyle Lowery, Rudy Gay and Hakim Warrick. But Jerry West's hands are tied by an ongoing ownership fiasco. With financial losses piling up, there's a good chance Gasol could be moved. West apparently went off on the team and coach Mike Fratello last week. If Fratello's still there by the break, I'll be stunned.

 

Kings: It's practically open warfare between Ron Artest and Mike Bibby, with Artest taking shots at Bibby about defense and suggesting he might have to defend the point guard too. Artest also said he's one of the league's dominant players and needs to shoot more. It's Shaq/Kobe II. You could get Bibby, but he makes $12.5 million. For what? Kenny Thomas has been mentioned, as has Shareef Abdur-Rahim, one of my longtime favorites for the Bulls.

 

Clippers: Maggette said he and coach Mike Dunleavy "don't see eye to eye," which is no surprise; everyone knew Maggette wasn't going to tolerate coming off the bench. The 76ers would like Shaun Livingston, who has moved ahead of Sam Cassell at point guard. The Clippers are getting desperate, having fallen to last in their division, though it doesn't seem Iverson would help their faltering defense.

 

Suns: Hard to believe the way they've been playing, but 76ers sources said Phoenix has inquired about Iverson. The Suns want to deal Marcus Banks, and Kurt Thomas is no longer vital with Amare Stoudemire playing again at a high level.

 

Lakers: Phil Jackson is here Tuesday and said he wanted to take a shot, which sounded like a plea to the front office to get him a point guard. Iverson and Kobe Bryant the next Michael and Scottie? I don't think so.

 

Heat: Pat Riley also said he wanted in, and he likely wants Antoine Walker, Gary Payton, James Posey, Dorell Wright and Jason Williams out. Good luck.

 

Trail Blazers: Portland would love to move Zach Randolph, who has put up good numbers, is a legitimate post player and could do for a team that's close what Rasheed Wallace did for the Pistons--put them over the top. The Blazers would like out from under Randolph's big contract and bad behavior. He ripped the team again last week after he was fined for making an obscene gesture to fans in Indiana.

 

Wizards: You never hear about the Wizards, but they're stalled with the team they have and own a few expiring small contracts. Antawn Jamison goes off the books after next season, as does Philly's Chris Webber.

 

Timberwolves: They've been trying to peddle Ricky Davis, Trenton Hassell and Marko Jaric for expiring contracts like those of Brown, Danny Fortson and Austin Croshere. It wouldn't figure the Bulls would help; they need a Minnesota collapse to get Garnett back in play.

 

Nets: No one has brought it up yet, but they're suddenly among the worst in the East, looking old and indifferent. They've also finished the easy part of their schedule, and Vince Carter has an option to leave after this season. Would they deal him and try to restock with a potentially great draft ahead?

 

SuperSonics: It's team meltdown with coach Bob Hill attacking his players and the players doubtlessly wondering why they don't have a real NBA coach. Rashard Lewis can leave after this season and there's a good chance he'll be dealt. Earl Watson also is a possible departure along with Fortson's expiring deal. - Chicago Tribune

 

There apparently have been discussions about Boykins and Najera going to Dallas, Mavericks forward Austin Croshere to Philadelphia, and the Nuggets also sending Joe Smith and two first-round picks to the 76ers for Iverson. However, it's debatable how serious they have been. - Rocky Mountain News