A serious question about TNA

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Using that logic, nobody outside of maybe Randy Orton and a few of the old-timers are "WWE homegrown," since just about everybody first achieved some level of fame via other companies. If you disclude Samoa Joe, then you also have to disclude AJ Styles (NWA Wildside, RoH), Christopher Daniels (various SoCal indies, RoH), Homicide (CZW, JAPW, RoH), Alex Shelley (RoH), Austin Starr (since I'm sure he's Austin Aries, aye?; RoH), Sonjay Dutt (CZW), Ron Killings (WWF, XPW), and thus you're left with...pretty much just Abyss (who wrestled for IWA Puerto Rico as Prince Justice), and maybe Sabin and Williams (who both worked Detroit/southern Canada indies). No company worth a damn has EVER started up with nothing but 100% purely homegrown talent. But the reason that Daniels, Styles, Truth, and Joe will be looked at as TNA talent (I'll agree to an extent with Joe, as his true fame came from the quality of his matches in RoH) is because they first got their true big break in TNA. Same reason why Austin, Foley, Hogan, and HBK will forever be looked at as WWF/WWE talent: they worked elsewhere beforehand, but first got REALLY big with Vince McMahon.

 

I think TNA's niche should be what it was their first year: a combination of smart mark IWC fans (due to the quality of the matches and importing/exporting talent from around the indy scene and the world) and casuals who miss the height of the Attitude era.

[Red Baron 0]

*mark* Push Eric Young *mark*

 

 

In seriousness, push the non WWE workers more. While it maybe good 10-12 years ago, when people were still cheering for Hulkamania and Randy Savage, fans these days don't want to see Kurt Angle, or believe Christian and Jeff Jarrett is a threat, especially if they haven't watched wrestling in four-six years. (Though this is a two bladed sword).

 

If TNA gets a two hour show, they can fill it in nicely, with what they are doing in one hour. (Which is cramming it all in). If they can't get a two hour show, then maybe have two one hour shows for the week. Kinda like the first show is like lower card matches, minor storylines, and the second show, Impact as the main show.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Here's a question I have...

 

How would a 2 Hour weekly Impact! schedule work out with the tapings schedule.

 

Right now, they usually tape 2 or 3 Impact! eps per taping.

[Guest Totally Crazy]

Using that logic, nobody outside of maybe Randy Orton and a few of the old-timers are "WWE homegrown," since just about everybody first achieved some level of fame via other companies. If you disclude Samoa Joe, then you also have to disclude AJ Styles (NWA Wildside, RoH), Christopher Daniels (various SoCal indies, RoH), Homicide (CZW, JAPW, RoH), Alex Shelley (RoH), Austin Starr (since I'm sure he's Austin Aries, aye?; RoH), Sonjay Dutt (CZW), Ron Killings (WWF, XPW), and thus you're left with...pretty much just Abyss (who wrestled for IWA Puerto Rico as Prince Justice), and maybe Sabin and Williams (who both worked Detroit/southern Canada indies). No company worth a damn has EVER started up with nothing but 100% purely homegrown talent. But the reason that Daniels, Styles, Truth, and Joe will be looked at as TNA talent (I'll agree to an extent with Joe, as his true fame came from the quality of his matches in RoH) is because they first got their true big break in TNA. Same reason why Austin, Foley, Hogan, and HBK will forever be looked at as WWF/WWE talent: they worked elsewhere beforehand, but first got REALLY big with Vince McMahon.

 

I think TNA's niche should be what it was their first year: a combination of smart mark IWC fans (due to the quality of the matches and importing/exporting talent from around the indy scene and the world) and casuals who miss the height of the Attitude era.

 

and no comany worth a damn got any where without building talent on its own either. Once TNA gets the resources they could open up their own developmental territory. And even if guys like you mentioned could be repackaged and pushed which is more along the lines I'm talking about building big stars, as well as their first main company national level break. So having said that there's more than I thought, but you cant honestly expect Christian vs. Kurt Angle is the best TNA could have come up with?

[razazteca 0]

Here's a question I have...

 

How would a 2 Hour weekly Impact! schedule work out with the tapings schedule.

 

Right now, they usually tape 2 or 3 Impact! eps per taping.

Hey maybe the stars can have one good match per taping instead of 3 really short non-finish ones a week!

[Guest Totally Crazy]

Here's a question I have...

 

How would a 2 Hour weekly Impact! schedule work out with the tapings schedule.

 

Right now, they usually tape 2 or 3 Impact! eps per taping.

Hey maybe the stars can have one good match per taping instead of 3 really short non-finish ones a week!

 

Russo=headspinning migraine.The guy actually thought that the timeslot was permanent...of all the moronic moves to pull.

 

seriously, just 3 matches about 8 minutes each.Thats about 27 minutes, given intros. Three minutes for promos.1 for interviews. Thats about forty five minutes write there. One for undercard, one one midcard, and the main event. none of this 5 promos and interviews in under two minutes...please.

[razazteca 0]

How dare you suggest taking tv time away from the Kevin Nash comedy skits! They draw damn it!

[randomguy 0]

As someone else pointed out, I've never understood why every match has to have some angle, usually stupid. Can't it be sold as a real sport to some degree? Two guys fight not because one killed the other one's girlfriend or whatever the fuck, but just because the matchmakers put them together. Especially with a one hour show there just isn't time to properly develop every angle anyway.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

As someone else pointed out, I've never understood why every match has to have some angle, usually stupid. Can't it be sold as a real sport to some degree? Two guys fight not because one killed the other one's girlfriend or whatever the fuck, but just because the matchmakers put them together. Especially with a one hour show there just isn't time to properly develop every angle anyway.

And you've also got the fact that every match having some sort of angle behind it means the viewers attention gets pulled in so many different directions that nothing gets over because nothing gets a chance to sink in.

[razazteca 0]

I remember Petey Williams getting over due to the awesomeness of the Canadian Destroyer but now he is the one who is the defender of country music and the American way! Poor Petey went from Canadian sidekick to the barking manager to the sidekick to the drunk cowboy breaking him away from Team Canada did wonders for his career.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

I wish Petey would get more of a fair shake. I enjoy him as a worker, and he's the perfect example of why the X-Division needs to just be about good wrestling and not angles or gimmicks.

 

Kinda off-topic, has anyone ever been on the boards at Death Valley Driver? My god those people are idiots. There are posters there, and not a small number, who consider Petey the worst wrestler in ALL OF WRESTLING. I'm not exaggerating this, either.

[Mecca 0]

I wish Petey would get more of a fair shake. I enjoy him as a worker, and he's the perfect example of why the X-Division needs to just be about good wrestling and not angles or gimmicks.

 

Kinda off-topic, has anyone ever been on the boards at Death Valley Driver? My god those people are idiots. There are posters there, and not a small number, who consider Petey the worst wrestler in ALL OF WRESTLING. I'm not exaggerating this, either.

 

At putting together a 5-7 minute TV match he isn't very good at that....and it's his finisher that riles people up. I hate it because it is just really really contrived looking. When your opponent legit has to back flip as you just kinda hold on for your finisher to work........

 

If you ever see "smarks" going insane on Williams it's his finisher, tons of people legit hate it.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

I wish Petey would get more of a fair shake. I enjoy him as a worker, and he's the perfect example of why the X-Division needs to just be about good wrestling and not angles or gimmicks.

 

Kinda off-topic, has anyone ever been on the boards at Death Valley Driver? My god those people are idiots. There are posters there, and not a small number, who consider Petey the worst wrestler in ALL OF WRESTLING. I'm not exaggerating this, either.

 

At putting together a 5-7 minute TV match he isn't very good at that....and it's his finisher that riles people up. I hate it because it is just really really contrived looking. When your opponent legit has to back flip as you just kinda hold on for your finisher to work........

 

If you ever see "smarks" going insane on Williams it's his finisher, tons of people legit hate it.

 

Oh yeah, I understand the beef with the Destroyer. I'd like it more if it was used as a special finish for big matches, and if he had a secondary finishing move. But to call him the worst wrestler in the world? He wasn't even worst in his stable.

[razazteca 0]

Canadian Destroyer is a great move it gets the shock value from the fans in the "holy shit what did I just witness" kind of way its as credible if not more than any other finisher being used today.

[Mecca 0]

Canadian Destroyer is a great move it gets the shock value from the fans in the "holy shit what did I just witness" kind of way its as credible if not more than any other finisher being used today.

 

The first time you see it sure.....but then when he started doing it every show......you realize how contrived it looks.

[razazteca 0]

This is pro wrestling everything is contrived it just depends on the perspective you take while watching the match. First of all Petey is in the X Division which is mostly smaller wrestlers who tend to do high risk high flying moves so under this context it is acceptable for somebody to win a match with a flip piledriver. Now if Petey were to use this move in matches against "heavyweights" like Abyss, Hoyt, Steiner, Sting, Hernandez then yeah it would be complete bullshit. Its all about the context of the match up and whatever psychology that you are willing to accept.

[qdes 0]

Kinda off-topic, has anyone ever been on the boards at Death Valley Driver? My god those people are idiots. There are posters there, and not a small number, who consider Petey the worst wrestler in ALL OF WRESTLING. I'm not exaggerating this, either.

 

I don’t know why people spend so much time mocking the Canadian Destroyer when his floatover to Russian legsweep, may not be as preposterous but looks far worse. At least with the Canadian Destroyer (like the rana), its move that a good opponent can make look ok. Moves where execution/set up matters more than the opponents’ bumps…uugh! Sometimes watching Williams wrestle is like watching a guy pretending to be a guy pretending to be a guy pretending to be a guy wrestling. Wrestling is two guys pretending to fight. Backyard wrestling is people pretending to be guys pretending to fight. So imagine a mime trying to mime “Backyard wrestling”, now imagine a kid whose first grade class went to see that mime. That kid taught Petey Williams how to execute a Russian leg sweep.

 

I normally don't agree with the blind DVDR-TNA-bashers but this was dead on. Peteys Russian leg sweep is awful. And he looks so contrived and unmotivated in the ring.

[Prime Time Andrew Doyle 0]

How anybody can hate the tomk iMPACT! Workrate reports are beyond me. Say what you will about DVDVR but they are absolute gold.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

Don't think I've ever read any of those workrate reports, so I'm not knocking them. To qdes, I'd actually agree with that guy about Petey's legsweep, it looks slow and useless. I also think Petey does a shitty sharpshooter. I'm not defending Petey as a golden god, 5* wrestler. I just don't think he's even as close to as bad as a majority of that board makes him out to be. There's no way he's worst wrestler material.

[Guest Grifter]

I'd like to see TNA portray each wrestler evenly. Maybe perhaps even reinstitute the ranking system from NWA of yesteryear. Why can someone like Austin Starr or Alex Shelly not beat someone like Kurt Angle or Christian? It's the WWE mentality and this isn't WWE, so why are they following it? They've had AJ Styles beat Abyss in the past. So, just because someone wrestles in the X-Division, that shouldn't doom them to only be able to compete against the likes of other X-Division stars. Instead of "feeding" them "new" bodies, like throwing Hoyt into an "X-Division Battle Royal" why not just let the X-Division wrestlers branch out a little bit more?

 

In one of Lance Storm's rants, he talks about how he was upset that Sonjay Dutt came out and started posing, flexing which was an obvious reference to Kevin Nash saying that he's on steroids. It's not meant to be taken seriously and it adds another dimension to his character. Granted it makes him a comedy character, which I don't particularly agree with, but it does add something. Then a few days later, Storm is talking about how TNA need to "tell more stories in the ring." I think that's what Dutt did. We don't need a promo or vignette or something to cover what's already happened. He's flexing because Nash says he's on steroids. It makes sense to me.

 

I just feel like a lot of the great matches that we could be looking forward too we won't get because TNA have apparently adopted the WWE line of thinking as it pertains to cruiserweights. The only exceptions seem to be people whom have WWE name recognition and AJ Styles.

 

I like TNA. At least I like the idea of it, I'm just not a fan of the execution. By my nature, I can always find flaws, no matter what the current situation is. I realize that I'm not going to enjoy one-hundred percent of the show one-hundred percent of the time but that's not what I'm asking for. I know that each segment isn't geared towards me or fans like me and they're trying to appeal to different types of fans. All I want is consistancy and logic. If that means trying to present wrestling as more of a legitimate sport again instead of trying to make it a soap-opera circus, then I'm all for that. I used to love getting the monthy magazines to see whom went up in the rankings and what title they were getting close to challenging for.

 

I've read the argument that with the rise of MMA, wrestling should become more cartoon-like, such as the WSX on MTV. I disagree wholeheartedly. I think wrestling should be pretty much the opposite of the MTV show. It should be portrayed as a sport where when you get sucked in, you forget that it's worked and just enjoy the show. Just like every other show.

[razazteca 0]

In one of Lance Storm's rants, he talks about how he was upset that Sonjay Dutt came out and started posing, flexing which was an obvious reference to Kevin Nash saying that he's on steroids. It's not meant to be taken seriously and it adds another dimension to his character.

If they are going to start doing things like this then everybody in the company needs to be in on it as I do not remember Mike Tenay or Don West even questioning why Sonjay was doing the posing! If they are going to make Sonjay into a comedy act as least have the announcers make some comments to get it over at least link it to the Nash comedy bits....remember the wrestling fans are dumb. Don't just assume that something from a 2 minute segment from last week is going to sink in with the opening match! It might work with the Orlando fans since everything is done in one day but on tv it looks like crap and there is no correlation made to make the tv fan say "hey Nash made a joke last week and Sonjay is trying to use it to get himself over..." It took the announcers forever to even acknowledge why Eric Young was freaking out during the pyro entrances and now the Mike and Don are doing the same thing with Sonjay never giving a reason as to why Sonjay is acting the fool during the intro. They finally got a clue during the "Don't Fire Eric" angle but that was weeks after the fact. Now I'm not saying this new Sonjay character is a good thing I'm just saying give it 100% to make it look good on tv.

 

The only that should burn slow is a cigar.

[Guest Grifter]

I think one of the biggest problems with wrestling as a whole is that too many people assume all of the viewers are idiots. That's part of the reason why wrestling has the stigma that it has. That's why we get dumbed down skits and poorly acted comedy. It's why people like Vince Russo still have a job.

 

I do agree that the commentators should have a clue. Of course, just telling Tenay/West about what's going on doesn't mean they'll have a clue.

 

Storm hit on a lot of good points. Talking about using the replay time and still allowing time for promos and whatnot. He also talked about TNA using too many people for each show, which I also agree with. It's possible that the announcers get as lost with the product as the viewers do. With so much stuff going on so quickly, a lot of things do get lost in the shuffle. The problem you're acknowledging with the fans needing reminders wouldn't be nearly as bad if half the rushed stuff was simply cut out.

 

I'm not saying that I disagree with you. I see your point and especially over the course of a week, people do need to be reminded of things. Like you pointed out, the commentators could do that. So could a simple replay before a match or small things of that nature. I just wanted to make the point that too many people downplay the intelligence of wrestling fans and that's sad 'cause it makes us all look bad.

[razazteca 0]

I do agree that the commentators should have a clue. Of course, just telling Tenay/West about what's going on doesn't mean they'll have a clue.

The announcers should have everything covered for the telecast in their notes or The Powers That Be in the back can tell them what to say via the ear piece. To say its just one person's fault that the tv product is being produced poorly would be false. The announcers should be aware of the last minute script changes and minor things like this could of been fixed when editing the 3 hour event down to the weekly Impacts. Where is the Quality Control?

[qdes 0]

How anybody can hate the tomk iMPACT! Workrate reports are beyond me. Say what you will about DVDVR but they are absolute gold.

 

If it was unclear, I didn't mean tomk was one of them. His reports sure are a fun read.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think what Storm means by "telling stories in the ring" is that guys just need to fight over titles, over who is best, etc. I can appreciate the notion of giving the X division guys some characterization, since it was a common fault people had with the division for a long time (namely too many bland, boring guys).

 

TNA needs to study tapes of WCW circa 1996-97 and not the 1999-2000 era. The WCW shows of that era were very adult oriented and very smart in terms of showing hard edged major angles (NWO) or simply world class workers in the ring. Do the main angles when you need to do the angles, and let the wrestlers wrestle otherwise.

[razazteca 0]

I think what Storm means by "telling stories in the ring" is that guys just need to fight over titles, over who is best, etc. I can appreciate the notion of giving the X division guys some characterization, since it was a common fault people had with the division for a long time

If Mistico can work a match that involved psychology then the X division guys should too! Its not so hard to work a few counters and sell some pain people!

 

(namely too many bland, boring guys).

Michael Shane is now one of Raven's pawns so problem solved! Too bad Seritonin does not get enough tv time to do anything.

[Guest Totally Crazy]

I remember Petey Williams getting over due to the awesomeness of the Canadian Destroyer but now he is the one who is the defender of country music and the American way! Poor Petey went from Canadian sidekick to the barking manager to the sidekick to the drunk cowboy breaking him away from Team Canada did wonders for his career.

 

Hey I actually respected the guys for showing some back bone in the anglee, and Im a Canadian who isnt that fond of American culture...if America even has a culture.

[razazteca 0]

It just did not make any sense to me at the time TNA had several patriots that could of stopped LAX from burning the flag and they were The Flag Wearing Olympic Hero Kurt Angle, James Gang, Team 3D, AMW - hello their name is AMERICAN MOST WANTED! So what do they do they get Petey Williams who for some reason wants to distance himself from his Team Canada gimmick. The angle did not even give us the potential match of spotfest greatness of Canadian Destroyer vs Gringo Killer what we got is a bunch of no nothing boring tag matches. The angle did not help Petey Williams at all he is still being perceived as a sidekick instead of a wrestler with one of the greatest finishers in the company.

[Broward83 0]

Petey should've joined with LAX.. throw in some malcontent American and form TNA's version of NAFTA

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

TNA just needs logic. That's...it, really. "We want Christian to hold the NWA title until Destination X when Joe beats him for it." Okay, cool. How do you get there? "Uhhh...we have Angle turn on Joe and join up with Christian and Steiner, then we have Styles turn face again after Rhino beats him in the blowoff to side with Jerry Lynn against Sabin and, errr, Jay Lethal..."

 

...that's not happening...but it wouldn't surprise me if it did. Is it that hard to have people on the staff whose job it is to talk with Russo and Mantel and Jarrett and remind them of what's worked in TNA, what hasn't worked in TNA, and the history of certain characters? All it takes is somebody to ask 'why" during the booking process to get a better show, really.

 

Re: in-ring stories

It's not hard to tell a story in the ring, even if you're just doing a spotfest. Let's say it's Senshi/Sabin, and Senshi's working over Sabin's left arm BAD. Now, when it's time to hit the Cradle Shock...Sabin can't get Senshi up for it because his left arm hurts so bad! Makes sense, right? So either Sabin loses or finds another way to beat Senshi. It's little things like that that would make the X-Division that much better. That and maybe, oh, changing the rules ever-so-slightly for X-Division matches to TRULY differentiate it from the Heavyweight division besides "these guys do backflips."