The End Of Bruno Sammartino's First Reign

[Guest JohnFTW]

Any reason as to why Bruno's first title reign ended when it did? And why did he lose it to Ivan Koloff? Was he that big of a name to get away with it back then? Did he draw a lot of heat? What was the deal?

 

Sorry if I am posting this in the wrong section. Still kinda of new here

[Chui 0]

Bruno had been champion for almost 8 years and they wanted to try a new top babyface, Pedro Morales. They didn't want to have a face vs. fact match, so they used Koloff as a transitional champion.

[Betty Houle 0]

Bruno had been champion for almost 8 years and they wanted to try a new top babyface, Pedro Morales. They didn't want to have a face vs. fact match, so they used Koloff as a transitional champion.

 

I think it had more to do with Bruno wanting a cut-back schedule than with the WWWF wanting a new top babyface.

[Guest JohnFTW]

It makes sense to want another face champion, I guess. But then they gave Bruno another lengthy reign.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Bruno wanted out. The funny part about Bruno's loss to Ivan is when the three count went down, clean, the entire building went silent and Bruno thought he had gone deaf. Bruno's second reign came about because Morales wasn't cutting it and Vince Sr. asked Bruno to come back and take the title while they could find another babyface champion.

[Guest JohnFTW]

Interesting stuff...So I guess Bruno was just gone after he lost his first title. I am assuming no rematches with Koloff. Just disappeared and came back to beat Stasiak.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Bruno continued to wrestle, but at a reduced pace. He did headline a stadium show against Morales in '72, about the only time WWE ran a face/face title match before Wrestlemania VI.

[Red Baron 0]

While on topic on champions.

 

Iron Sheik was a transitional champion for the 3 1/2 weeks he was champ. Did Bob Backlund not want to face Hulk Hogan and ultimately job the belt to Hogan? That's the vibe I was getting at.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

While on topic on champions.

 

Iron Sheik was a transitional champion for the 3 1/2 weeks he was champ. Did Bob Backlund not want to face Hulk Hogan and ultimately job the belt to Hogan? That's the vibe I was getting at.

Didn't Hogan get brought in AFTER Backlund lost the title?

 

Seem to remember that from the first Hogan DVD set WWE released.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Hogan made his WWE return the day after Backlund lost the title. Obviously they knew Hogan was coming. The key is that the company would never pull a face/face title change. However, I think there is a story that they wanted Backlund to turn heel and challenge Hogan, which he declined.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Hogan made his WWE return the day after Backlund lost the title. Obviously they knew Hogan was coming. The key is that the company would never pull a face/face title change. However, I think there is a story that they wanted Backlund to turn heel and challenge Hogan, which he declined.

 

You are sort of correct. It's always been said that Vince wanted to turn Backlund heel for a program with Hogan, but I think this was going to occur after Hogan had already gotten the belt from Sheik.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Yeah...when Sheik beat Backlund, it was basically dead set that Hogan was going to beat Sheik for the title soon afterwards. From what I recall, Backlund left WWF because he didn't want to turn heel.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Now I'm trying to picture a WWF Hogan vs. Heel Backlund from 1994 feud.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

As an aside, it should be noted that Backlund was 100% dead as a performer and draw by the time he lost the belt, at least according to Meltzer and those in the know (I wasn't quite old enough to remember this time period). He didn't even get a look from the NWA or AWA after being WWF champion for more than five years. That's gotta be tough to do.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I could just imagine Backlund cutting one of his 1994 promos in a 1984 MSG. The heat would only be rivaled by Volkoff singing the Russian National Anthem.

[Betty Houle 0]

As an aside, it should be noted that Backlund was 100% dead as a performer and draw by the time he lost the belt, at least according to Meltzer and those in the know (I wasn't quite old enough to remember this time period). He didn't even get a look from the NWA or AWA after being WWF champion for more than five years. That's gotta be tough to do.

 

While this is mostly true, I believe Backlund did work for the AWA. He may have worked for the NWA as well. He was pretty much a flop and was out of wrestling before you knew it.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I thought I remember reading that he went to work for some relatively obscure company in Chicago, but I could be wrong.

[Bruce Blank 0]

Backlund showed up at least once in Herb Abrams UWF somewhere between 90 and 92

[Toxxic 0]

Taking this thread even further off the original topic... Backlund as a heel - can anyone help me with this? My viewing of wrestling started in the late 80s and (being in Britain) was kind of bitty, and pretty much stopped at the first King of the Ring (if that's where Yokozuna beat Hogan to get the title back) until Summerslam 2000. My only memory of Bob Backlund was as the returning technician smiling hand-shaking babyface in the track jacket.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Taking this thread even further off the original topic... Backlund as a heel - can anyone help me with this? My viewing of wrestling started in the late 80s and (being in Britain) was kind of bitty, and pretty much stopped at the first King of the Ring (if that's where Yokozuna beat Hogan to get the title back) until Summerslam 2000. My only memory of Bob Backlund was as the returning technician smiling hand-shaking babyface in the track jacket.

 

Bob Backlund got a face/face title match with Bret Hart during the summer of 1994 when Bret was doing his "fighting champion" gimmick. After the match (which Bret won clean) Backlund attacked him and placed him in a cross-face chicken wing. When he finally relinquished the hold, he kept staring at his hands. The original plan called for it to be revealed that Backlund was under a voodoo spell cast by a returning Papa Shango. However, plans changed when Backlund got himself super over as a heel playing up the crazy old man routine.

 

This culminated with him beating Bret for the belt at Survivor Series '94. Unfortunately the reign ended days later when McMahon decided to put the belt on Diesel in an 8-second squash to establish his new Hogan-type babyface. Backlund never really recovered before being phased out after losing the rubber match to Bret at WM XI.

[cabbageboy 0]

Okay, in mid 1994 Backlund had a match against Bret Hart on Superstars. Bret beat him clean in a very solid scientific match. Afterwards, Backlund went totally NUTS and attacked Bret and put him in his new submission hold (the crossface chicken wing). This led to the submission match at Survivor Series 1994 where Backlund won the title from Bret after Owen Hart convinced Helen Hart to throw in the towel since Backlund had Bret in the chicken wing for about 10 minutes.

 

Backlund didn't last long as champ though, since Diesel destroyed him in 8 seconds for the title a few days later. From there Backlund jobbed in an I Quit match to Bret at WM 11, and after that was mostly a goofy heel doing skits and trying to run for president.

 

As far as Backlund in the mid 80s, I am a bit surprised he didn't get over in the AWA. He's from Minnesota, he's the sort of bland technician that would do well there.

[Toxxic 0]

Trying to run for president? Ah, that'll explain his appearance and attitude in TNA then...

[ChrisMWaters 0]

For those who re-capped Heel Backlund.

 

You forgot about his brief run teaming with The Iron Sheik so they could both manage The Sultan (Fatu/Rikishi in between those two gimmicks and under a mask)

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

For those who re-capped Heel Backlund.

 

You forgot about his brief run teaming with The Iron Sheik so they could both manage The Sultan (Fatu/Rikishi in between those two gimmicks and under a mask)

 

That took place in 1997, which was a considerable amount of time after his big heel run (which was pretty much contained in fall/winter '94).

[Toxxic 0]

In this day and age, it's amazing to think of people being world champion for five years, or nearly eight years, or anything like that. I mean, we had Triple H at what, about ten or eleven months, and that seemed like an eternity (and yes, he jobbed it to Michaels for a month and then got it back again, but even with those two reigns added together it's nothing like those guys).

 

As a thought - do you think this trend will continue with world title reigns (on average) getting shorter and shorter, or have they now reached the lower limit of how quickly you can push change through without getting stupid? (I'm not arguing that the WWE in general hasn't reached stupidity, because I think it clearly has)

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

In this day and age, it's amazing to think of people being world champion for five years, or nearly eight years, or anything like that. I mean, we had Triple H at what, about ten or eleven months, and that seemed like an eternity (and yes, he jobbed it to Michaels for a month and then got it back again, but even with those two reigns added together it's nothing like those guys).

 

As a thought - do you think this trend will continue with world title reigns (on average) getting shorter and shorter, or have they now reached the lower limit of how quickly you can push change through without getting stupid? (I'm not arguing that the WWE in general hasn't reached stupidity, because I think it clearly has)

 

Long title reigns were a product of that era of wrestling. The WWF was only running shows about once per month in their major markets, and they could probably get three months of shows off of one main event program. It's a lot easier to keep things fresh when fans are only seeing the major players a couple times year instead of a couple times per week. It behooved the bookers at that point to keep the belt on a familiar face that could draw. There has actually been a lot of crticism towards Vince Sr. that they should have run more title changes. The NWA, the standard for World title booking, seemed to move the belt at least once a year.

 

We've already seen a trend towards longer title reigns. Cena, save for a couple of quick changes, has held the belt for roughly two years. Batista's first reign probably would have been one year plus if he didn't get hurt. The number of title changes isn't the issue though. It's the number of credible challengers that are vying for the title. The WWF ran a lot of title changes in 1999 and 2000 to little criticism. However, the WWF of 2002 passed the belt around like a hot potato, greatly devaluing it in the process. There's no hard and fast rule for title changes.

[areacode212 0]

A few things about Backlund: I heard the Papa Shango deal was just some internet lore (possibly started by Scott Keith) that people have come to accept as fact. Someone once asked Meltzer about that story and he pretty much laughed at it. Backlund was always meant to just be a transitional champion between Bret & Diesel (Nash said that those plans were in place by the summer of '94).

 

After he dropped the title, he was reduced to being a crazy harmless old coot who ran for President, which pissed me off as heel Backlund was pretty much my favorite gimmick during those months leading up to Survivor Series, when he was the crazy, but dangerous returning champion. His motivation was basically that he was never pinned or submitted in the match with the Iron Sheik (remember, Skaaland threw in the towel for him), so he still considered himself the rightful WWF champion. Also, in his mind, he represented a bygone era of values and morality, unlike the degenerates of the 1994 WWF. I loved it because his story built on old continuity from before the big '80s wrestling boom. Also, since he still considered himself the rightful champion, that logic implied that the entire Hogan era was built around an illegitimate champion, which was an idea that I found hilarious & awesome.

 

Back in the '80s, I heard that Vince had asked him to become an Adrian Street-style "punk" heel, but he refused. After that, he went over to Pro Wrestling USA, which was some kind of collaborative effort between the AWA and some of the NWA promoters, but it didn't last long.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

A few things about Backlund: I heard the Papa Shango deal was just some internet lore (possibly started by Scott Keith) that people have come to accept as fact. Someone once asked Meltzer about that story and he pretty much laughed at it. Backlund was always meant to just be a transitional champion between Bret & Diesel (Nash said that those plans were in place by the summer of '94).

 

It's interesting that you mention that because I think the Shango story did come from Scott Keith. It's crazy how many stories that are accepted as fact in internet circles that just seemed to come straight out of Scott's head. I don't know what would propel him to make up a bunch of stories when he was trying to break as a serious writer. I know he was once asked about Meltzer's accusation that he made everything up and he said he found it odd because every story he told came directly from Meltz' old newsletters. I tend to lean on Dave's side of the story but who knows really.