TSM All-Time Baseball Tournament

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I like how game 5 of this series (down 3-1 in the series, Schilling pitches 8(?) shutout innings for a 1-0 victory) almost exactly mirrored what happened to the Phillies in in game 5 of the actual World Series in 1993 (down 3-1 in the series, Schilling pitches a complete game 2-0 victory).

Except then we would've never trusted Mitch with the ninth.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

2004 St. Louis Cardinals (The Man in Blak) vs. 1972 Oakland Athletics (Porter)

 

The '04 Cardinals won 105 games and the National League pennant, but fell to the Boston Red Sox in the World Series. The '72 A's won the franchise's first championship in 41 years, a seemingly improbable feat after the Kansas City days.

 

Hall of Famers

Athletics: Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, Rollie Fingers

Cardinals: [Albert Pujols], [Larry Walker]

 

The Cardinals featured both very good offense and defense. The Cards' rotation was steady and their bullpen was excellent. The Athletics were constructed in a similar manner. Both teams have a few excellent hitters in the middle of their lineup. One sidenote, the Cardinals' pitching coach (Dave Duncan) is also the A's catcher.

 

'04 Cardinals 7, '72 Athletics 5

WP: Steve Kline (1-0)

LP: Darold Knowles (0-1)

Sv: Jason Isringhausen (1)

 

So Taguchi hit a two-run pitch hit triple in the seventh to give the Cardinals a commanding lead. Reggie Jackson struck out with two runners on to end the game.

 

'04 Cardinals 15, '72 Athletics 5

WP: Woody Williams (1-0)

LP: Ken Holtzman (0-1)

 

A slugfest from the start, as both teams scored three in the first inning. The turning point came in the sixth, as Dave Hamilton entered with his team down one in the sixth and allowed five runs, including a grand slam to Jim Edmonds.

 

'72 Athletics 7, '04 Cardinals 6

WP: Vida Blue (1-0)

LP: Matt Morris (0-1)

Sv: Rollie Fingers (1)

 

Mike Epstein's three-run home run gave the A's the edge. Rollie Fingers got into a game for the first time to pitch two innings for the save.

 

'72 Athletics 5, '04 Cardinals 1

WP: Blue Moon Odom (1-0)

LP: Jason Marquis (0-1)

 

Angel Mangual collected two doubles and two RBIs. Odom pitched seven innings, giving up one run and striking out six.

 

'04 Cardinals 2, '72 Athletics 1 (12 Innings)

WP: Jason Isringhausen (1-0)

LP: Joe Horien (0-1)

Sv: Kiko Calero (1)

 

A classic relief pitchers' duel. Rollie Fingers pitched two solid innings before leaving for a pinch hitter. Jason Isringhausen pitched two scoreless innings of his own. Reggie Sanders drove in the go-ahead run in the 12th with an RBI single.

 

'72 Athletics 7, '04 Cardinals 5

WP: Ken Holtzman (1-1)

LP: Chris Carpenter (0-1)

Sv: Darold Knowles (1)

 

The Athletics' depleted bullpen held on. The Cards scored two runs in the second. The A's came back in the fourth thanks to Bert Campaneris's two-run single followed by a three-run home run from Angel Manguel.

 

'72 Athletics 4, '04 Cardinals 3

WP: Darold Knowles (1-1)

LP: Ray King (0-1)

Sv: Rollie Fingers (2)

 

Game seven met expectations. Albert Pujols hit a solo home run in the first to give the Cards a 1-0 lead. In the top of the second, Dave Duncan hit a sacrifice fly to tie the game. Joe Rudi and Mike Epstein collected RBIs in the third to give the A's a 3-1 lead. Reggie Sanders hit a solo home run in the fifth to cut the lead to 3-2. Larry Walker scored the tying run in the sixth on a double play.

 

In the top of the eighth, Joe Rudi led off with a single and Reggie Jackson followed up with a double to put two runners in scoring position. Sal Bando drove in the go-ahead run with a sacrifice fly. Rollie Fingers pitched two innings for the save, striking out six batters in the process.

 

1972 Athletics win series 4-3

 

While it started slow, the series produced two very good games in the last three to produce one of the best so far. Reggie Jackson outproduced Reggie Sanders. The '72 Athletics advance to play the '94 Expos.

 

Up Next: '10 Athletics vs. '92 Blue Jays

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Kahran... you are so going down in our matchup!

[The Man in Blak 0]

It figures that Ray King would cough up my Game 7.

[Richard 0]

In case you want to know what these team's uniforms looked like.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

1910 Philadelphia Athletics (Harley Quinn) vs. 1992 Toronto Blue Jays (Kahran Ramsus)

 

The 1992 Blue Jays won their first of two consecutive World Championships. The A's won their first World Title and would win two more in the next three seasons.

 

Hall of Famers

Blue Jays: Dave Winfield, [Roberto Alomar], [David Cone]

Athletics: Eddie Collins, Home Run Baker, Eddie Plank, Chief Bender

 

This is an interesting series, as half the games will take place in the dead ball era and half will take place in the 1990s. As one poster noted, bullpen usage will prove interesting in this series. The Blue Jays have the advantage of utilizing late game matchups. The A's will ride their starters to complete games.

 

'10 Athletics 2, '92 Blue Jays 1

WP: Eddie Plank (1-0)

LP: David Cone (0-1)

 

David Cone pitched an outstanding game, giving up only one hit. That hit came from Home Run Baker, who hit an RBI triple and scored himself on a groundout. Manuel Lee scored the only Blue Jays run with a solo homer.

 

'92 Blue Jays 3, '10 Athletics 2 (11 Innings)

WP: Tom Henke (1-0)

LP: Jack Coombs (0-1)

 

The Blue Jays scored the go-ahead run in the eleventh on John Olerud's double. Jack Coombs surrendered two earned runs and pitched the entire game for the A's.

 

'10 Athletics 5, '92 Blue Jays 3

WP: Chief Bender (1-0)

LP: David Wells (0-1)

 

Bender struck out 12 Blue Jays in the victory. Harry Davis drove in the go-ahead run in the eighth with an RBI single and Jack Lapp followed with a sacrifice fly.

 

'92 Blue Jays 8, '10 Athletics 7

WP: Tom Henke (2-0)

LP: Harry Krause (0-1)

 

Roberto Alomar hit an RBI single in the eighth to give the Blue Jays the lead. Tom Henke blew the save in the ninth, allowing a two-out RBI single to Harry Davis. The Jays salvaged the game in the ninth as Harry Krause walked Manuel Lee with the bases loaded to end the game.

 

'92 Blue Jays 10, '10 Athletics 5

WP: Mel Stottlemyre (1-0)

LP: Eddie Plank (0-1)

Sv: Duane Ward (1)

 

Kelly Gruber hit a grand slam home run to break a 4-4 tie in the seventh inning. The A's ran out of pitching here, forced to the back end of their pitching staff when Eddie Plank faltered. The A's go back to Shibe Park, conditions far more favorable to their team.

 

'10 Athletics 1, '92 Blue Jays 0

WP: Jack Coombs (1-1)

LP: Juan Guzman (0-1)

 

Both pitchers hurled complete games. Frank Baker drove in the go-ahead run in the 6th with an RBI single.

 

'10 Athletics 1, '92 Blue Jays 0

WP: Chief Bender (2-0)

LP: Jack Morris (1-2)

 

Again a 1-0 game, and again both pitchers pitched complete games. Harry Davis drove in the game's lone run with a sacrifice fly. The Blue Jays enjoyed a glimmer of hope when Devon White reached on an error and stole second in the ninth, but Chief Bender shut the door. The Blue Jays managed just one hit in the game.

 

1910 Athletics win series 4-3

 

This series truly served to illustrate the difference between modern and dead ball baseball. The Blue Jays' potent offense was nullified in Shibe Park.

[CanadianChris 0]

What a strange, strange series.

[Dandy 0]

I don't think Kevin Brown will be able to stop the Big Red Machine. Bring 'em on, Richard.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Holy Cow...

 

5 games decided by 1 run and the Athletics wins the series thanks to back to back 1-0 shutouts!

 

*gives champagne to the members of my squad*

 

Upside: My team averaged 3.28 RPG including three with 5+ runs.

Downside: All those 1 run games are gonna drive me crazy.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Maybe I should have picked the '93 team.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

1976 Cincinnati Reds (Imarkout4eldandy) vs. 1998 San Diego Padres (Richard)

 

The Big Red Machine won 102 games and swept both playoff series, still the only team to sweep the postseason since divisional play. The Padres won 98 games and upset two 100 win teams in the postseason to win the National League pennant. They were swept however by the New York Yankees in the World Series.

 

Hall of Famers

Reds: Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Tony Perez, [Pete Rose]

Padres: Tony Gwynn, [Trevor Hoffman]

 

The San Diego Padres enjoyed above average hitting and pitching. Their staff was led by an ace starter (Kevin Brown) and an ace closer (Trevor Hoffman). The Reds featured average pitching and a historically great offense (Tony Perez was their sixth best hitter). The Reds did feature an outstanding closer of their own in Rawley Eastwick.

 

'76 Reds 2, '98 Padres 1

WP: Rawley Eastwick (1-0)

LP: Trevor Hoffman (0-1)

 

Carlos Hernandez tied the game in the top of the ninth with a two-out RBI single. Dave Concepcion drove in the winning run in the bottom of the frame with an RBI single of his own.

 

'98 Padres 6, '76 Reds 4

WP: Joey Hamilton (1-0)

LP: Jack Billingham (0-1)

Sv: Trevor Hoffman (1)

 

Greg Vaughn's three-run home run on the first inning proved the difference.

 

'76 Reds 4, '98 Padres 1

WP: Pat Zachry (1-0)

LP: Andy Ashby (0-1)

Sv: Rawley Eastwick (1)

 

The Reds scored two runs in the third on back-to-back RBI singles from Ken Griffey and Joe Morgan. Rawley Eastwick pitched two scoreless innings for the save.

 

'98 Padres 4, '76 Reds 0

WP: Sterling Hitchcock (1-0)

LP: Fred Norman (0-1)

 

Hitchcock allowed just two hits over seven innings. The Padres did their damage with a three-run fifth inning on back-to-back singles by Quilvio Veras and Steve Finley, followed by a sacrifice fly from Tony Gwynn.

 

'76 Reds 4, '98 Padres 3

WP: Gary Nolan (1-0)

LP: Kevin Brown (0-1)

Sv: Rawley Eastwick (2)

 

The Reds scored all their runs in the third inning, capped by a two-run single from George Foster. Greg Vaughn hit two home runs for the Padres in the loss. Rawley Eastwick again pitched two scoreless innings.

 

Whenever possible I've tried to follow usage patterns of the time. In 1998, Trevor Hoffman NEVER entered a game with his team trailing. Rawley Eastwick on the other hand simply entered close games in the 8th and sometimes 7th inning. Old timers and even sabermetricians love to comment on that kind of "optimal" closer usage. It wins games, yes. Eastwick was also washed up at 30.

 

'98 Padres 3, '76 Reds 2

WP: Joey Hamilton (2-0)

LP: Don Gullett (0-1)

Sv: Trevor Hoffman (2)

 

Greg Vaughn collected two home runs, including a solo shot in the eighth to break a 2-2 tie. Both runs allowed by Joey Hamilton were unearned. The Reds threatened in the ninth thanks in part to an error by Wally Joyner, but Trevor Hoffman struck out Ken Griffey with the bases loaded to end the game.

 

'76 Reds 4, '98 Padres 0

WP: Pat Zachry (2-0)

LP: Andy Ashby (0-2)

 

The Reds did their damage with a three run first.

 

Pete Rose singled

Ken Griffey doubled, Rose to third

Joe Morgan grounded out, pitcher to first

George Foster doubled, Rose and Griffey scored, Foster to third on error by Steve Finley

Johnny Bench grounded out, short to first, Foster scored

Tony Perez singled

Tony Concepcion flied to left

Reds 3, Padres 0

 

1976 Reds win series 4-3

 

The Padres came a scant win away from pulling off the upset here. Valient effort. The Reds advance to play the 1910 Philadelphia A's in the next round.

 

Up Next: '12 Giants vs. '06 Twins

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Oooh... A "historically great offense" enters the dead ball era. Should be fun.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Time to put the old men in their place.

[Chuck Woolery 0]

pfft. mathewson/marquard owns santana/liriano, sonn.

[Dandy 0]

Wow, that series could have gone either way! Tough, tough win.

 

 

Didn't seem like the Reds offense performed all that great. Greg Vaughn hit 5 homers?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

pfft. mathewson/marquard owns santana/liriano, sonn.

 

You're going to be disappointed. And Vern happy.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

The good news is we're one day closer to 97 Orioles vs 98 Astros (should be friday).

 

I cant even begin to imagine what to expect.

[vivalaultra 0]

The good news is we're one day closer to 97 Orioles vs 98 Astros (should be friday).

 

I cant even begin to imagine what to expect.

 

Expect an asswhoopin', dawg. No, it should be interesting. I think the '98 Astros team was one of the top 3, if not the top, team they ever assembled. Biggio, Bagwell, Alou, Bell, and Carl Everett went absolutely bonkers that year. It was one of only two good years Jose Lima ever had. Randy Johnson had the best 2nd half of maybe any pitcher ever (10-1, 1.28 ERA, 116 K, 26 BB in 85 innings, 4 CG SHO). The whole pitching staff was good that year, too. Shane Reynolds won 19 games...Billy Wagner was great...Yeah. The O's had good pitching with Mussina and Key and Randy Myers, but outside of Alomar and Palmiero, the offense was just pretty good. If I had to guess, I'd stay 'Stros win 4-2, but, the way the other series have been going, it'll probably end up 4-3 O's with at least three games going into extra innings, two games where the teams combine for over 20 runs, and two more that are 1-0 shutouts.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

1912 New York Giants (Chuck Woolery) vs. 2006 Minnesota Twins (Vern Gagne)

 

The Giants won 103 games but lost a heartbreaking World Series to the Boston Red Sox thanks in part to Fred Snodgrass's famous error. The Twins won 96 games but lost the divisional series to the Oakland A's in three games.

 

Hall of Famers

Giants: Christy Mathewson, Rube Marquard

Twins: none

 

The Twins enjoyed average hitting and above average pitching. The Twins two aces, Francisco Liriano and Johan Santana ranked among the best starters in baseball, and their bullpen was outstanding. The Giants had above excellent hitting and pitching. Their hitting does not look outstanding in raw statistics, but they had the highest OBP and OPS of any team between 1900-1919 (the Deadball Era). The 319 stolen bases by the team rate third in the modern era. Their pitching was outstanding, led by Christy Mathewson and Rube Marquard. Unlike most deadball teams, they enjoyed the services of a relief ace, Doc Crandall.

 

'06 Twins 4, '12 Giants 2

WP: Francisco Liriano (1-0)

LP: Christy Mathewson (0-1)

Sv: Joe Nathan (2)

 

Torii Hunter's two-run home run in the sixth proved the difference. Francisco Liriano helped himself with an RBI single in the fifth.

 

'06 Twins 5, '12 Giants 4

WP: Jesse Crain (1-0)

LP: Rube Marquard (0-1)

Sv: Joe Nathan (3)

 

The Giants dominated the first three innings, scoring four runs off starter Boof Bonser. The Twins battled back, scoring runs in the fourth and sixth innings. With two outs and two on in the eighth, Michael Cuddyer hit a three-run home run off Rube Marquard to give the Twins the lead. Juan Rincon and Joe Nathan pitched scoreless innings to preserve the win. The Twins lead two games to none, heading to the Metrodome with Johan Santana on the hill.

 

'06 Twins 10, '12 Giants 2

WP: Johan Santana (2-0)

LP: Doc Tesreau (0-1)

 

A close game until the eighth inning when the floodgates opened and Doc Tesreau allowed six runs. The dead ball bullpen of the Giants could be a problem in the modern era in Minnesota. The Twins now hold a 3-0 series lead, meaning the Giants need to win four straight. The Giants will start Christy Mathewson on short rest in game four.

 

'06 Twins 8, '12 Giants 6

WP: Brad Radke (1-1)

LP: Christy Mathewson (0-2)

Sv: Joe Nathan (4)

 

Torii Hunter hit a three-run home run in the first inning, contributing to eight earned runs allowed by Christy Mathewson in three innings of work. The Twins held on to win a shocking sweep.

 

2006 Twins win series 4-0

 

Wow. The Twins dominated this series. Their ability to play smallball almost certainly contributed to their victories, and their pitching did not hurt either. The Twins advance to the next round.

 

So how does a historically nondescript team like the 2006 Twins sweep a dynasty like the 1912 New York Giants? A few possibilities to address.

 

1. The Timeline Adjustment

 

Athletes through history have improved. Witness winning times in track meets, swimming competitions, etc. The 2006 Twins were perhaps better conditioned and more athletic than the 1912 Giants. The Twins would certainly enjoy an edge in nutrition and training techniques. Whether that translates is another matter.

 

2. Advantages in strategy

 

The Minnesota Twins in addition to their starters carry four capable bench players and twelve pitchers. The modern game dictates that a team takes full advantage of their 25 man roster. Teams of the deadball era however mostly utilized their starters. Their benches and bullpens were essentially their farm system. Only six pitchers on the Giants registered more than sixteen innings. This gives a team like the Twins an advantage late in games, when they can make strategic moves and the Giants are frozen in their tracks.

 

3. Inequities in competition

 

The Giants won 103 games in 1912. They did it however in an age where not all of the best players in baseball played in the Majors. I am not just talking about black players. Players of MLB caliber played in the Pacific Coast League, in other minor leagues. There was no organization of talent like we enjoy today. In addition, the National League in the teens was inferior to the American League. The AL won eight of ten World Series from 1910-19 (and one of those was the Black Sox series). When the Giants' dynasty ended, the pennant was taken by two second division teams, first the Braves and then the Phillies.

 

By comparison, the Twins played in the 2006 American League, recognized as the tougher league of the two. They played in a tough division, in a fully organized baseball environment. It is quite possible when you account for competition, the Twins were actually a better team.

 

4. Johan Santana vs. Christy Mathewson

 

Ask any knowledgeable baseball fan who was the better pitcher, and they tell you Matty. Mathewson's career statistics are far more impressive than Santana's. Let's look closer at the comparison however. Christy Mathewson from 1911-13 went 74-36. Johan Santana went 55-19. Santana's win percentage is actually higher. Mathewson's ERA+'s were 168, 159 and 151. Santana's were 182, 153 and 161. Mathewson pitched about eighty more innings a season, but in 1911 for example five other pitchers had more innings. Santana has always been top two in innings the last three seasons. Matty had two seasons superior to any season of Santana's, but they were in the aughts. Santana in 2006 was better than Mathewson in 1912.

 

Looking beyond the aces, Minnesota's number two (Francisco Liriano) had a lower ERA than the Giants' number two (Rube Marquard), and that's without adjusting for era! Then you consider the Twins' bullpen, essentially placing superior pitchers on the mound from the seventh inning on. It is easy to see how the Giants might have been overmatched.

 

Up Next: '98 Astros vs. '97 Orioles

[Vern Gagne 0]

Awesome.

 

Who do we play next.

 

I knew this team could something with a healthy roster.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

You get the winner of the next series.

[Richard 0]

Don't forget steroids. I'm sure that played a factor too.

[KingPK 0]

1976 Cincinnati Reds (Imarkout4eldandy) vs. 1998 San Diego Padres (Richard)

 

The Big Red Machine won 102 games and swept both playoff series, still the only team to sweep the postseason since divisional play.

 

I thought one of the 90's Yankee teams did the same. I think it was that '98 team, too.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

The 98 Yanks went 11-1, I believe. Same as the 2005 White Sox (yeah cheap plug).

[snuffbox 0]

Fred Snodgrass's famous error

 

Hey now, let's be fair to Snodgrass.

[cabbageboy 0]

Actually I thought that the 1998 Yankees went 11-2, with the 2 losses being to Cleveland in the ALCS. Wasn't that a 6 game series?

 

The 1976 Reds would have swept the 1998 Padres without breaking a sweat.

[CanadianChris 0]

Actually I thought that the 1998 Yankees went 11-2, with the 2 losses being to Cleveland in the ALCS. Wasn't that a 6 game series?

Yes, it was.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

In any event, they didn't sweep, which is my point.

[Richard 0]

Actually I thought that the 1998 Yankees went 11-2, with the 2 losses being to Cleveland in the ALCS. Wasn't that a 6 game series?

 

The 1976 Reds would have swept the 1998 Padres without breaking a sweat.

 

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

[snuffbox 0]

I didn't think the '82 Brewers would get trounced by the '04 Astros either...but that's why we sim the games!