high school shenanigans

[Gary Floyd 0]

It's amazing to see a thread with C-Bacon where he is the one who hasn't been acting like an ass...for the most part.

[muzz 0]

Why do we have schools based on telling kids what to do?

 

You're joking right?

[Dobbs 3K 0]

He's not, scarily enough.

 

In C-Bacon's world, schools are just constructs engineered by the proletariat to suppress free thinking.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Let's make a compromise.

 

Neither C-Bacon or I3K can reproduce. It's too late for Jerk.

[cbacon 0]

He's not, scarily enough.

 

In C-Bacon's world, schools are just constructs engineered by the proletariat to suppress free thinking.

 

Well really, we need to be honest about the purpose of school. The purpose of primary education (including high school) is to train people to be exploited by capitalism, and the purpose of university is more or less to teach people to manage capitalism (essentially as middlemen between the capitalists and the people most directly exploited by them).

 

There are two main ways in which primary education's central purpose is to create people who are willing to be exploited by capitalism (again, I'm including high school in this). The first is through hierarchical/authority structures.

 

The second main way is through the concept of grades (which, now that I think of it, actually supports the hierarchies). It teaches people that they have a specific value which can be calculated. It also teaches people that accomplishments, successes, etc. are measurable quantities. Among other things, this supports the very capitalist notion of "results". It also teaches that people whose results are quantitatively larger than yours are more deserving of reward. These are entirely capitalist concepts, and if children weren't inculcated with them from such a young age it would be virtually impossible for a capitalist market to exist.

 

There are other ways. For example, the idea that people need to be at a specific place at a specific time supports capitalist control over people's time. The same can be said of deadlines. Is there anything you've really ever valued that couldn't have been finished a week later? Or a month later?

 

That's a rough outline. There's certainly much more than that in terms of structure, and I haven't even begun to get into the ways that the material itself is intended to support capitalist exploitation.

[cbacon 0]

If i ever have kids, it'll be up to them if they want to go to school

This says it all.

 

I don't think I'd want any kid of mine subjected to elementary school. Quite frankly I have zero faith in our trained and certified professionals because they are teaching based on a philosophy that knowledge is imparted, when learning is the product of the activity of learners. I think I could create a better learning environment at home. However, if my kid wanted to go to school because his friends were all there and he found it exciting and stimulating, I wouldn't deny it to him. It should be up to him. But most parents just send their kids to school without any thought. Who else is in a better position to decide, the parent? School may be right for some kids and wrong for others (or maybe you believe school is right for just about everyone?). But it surely can't be parents who have the answer as to which is right. They know what will work out best for themselves as parents, and they have some idea how their parents handled the situation with them, and they have some idea what influences they want their kid to be subjected to, but that's all they know, and the key point I've been trying to make is that these are not the best things to base decisions you're making about another person's life on. Obviously the only person who can know for sure whether school is right for a child is the child. That doesn't mean that parents can't help the kid come a decision.

 

I still don't know why kids can't set their own bedtime. I had a bedtime until I was 16 but stayed up late reading for as long as I can remember. What did I learn? I learned I can sleep whenever I want and it's my problem if I'm tired because of it. What lesson about sleep could possibly be more valuable to learn than that?

[Slayer 0]

The purpose of primary education (including high school) is to train people to be exploited by capitalism

I quit reading after this sentence

[vivalaultra 0]

I, unfortunately, read the whole thing and it's asinine. Then I viewed his profile, thinking that maybe he's like...16 or something and just, like a good percentage of teenagers, dislikes school for any number of reasons, but then I saw that he's 23 or so. I froze when I saw that C-Bacon is 23.

[Guest Eagle Man]

One of my favorite things about the whole time hang-up was when teachers would lock the door immediately after the bell rang. If you cannot make it to your destination in exactly three hundred seconds, you are not fit to learn. This happened to me a few times. I'd either just hang out in the band room and read a book, or get passes from teachers that liked me and looked out for me. As for success being quantifiable, I suppose it can be in some circumstances, but not always in school. I had a psychology teacher who was obsessed with "results." Ironically, he's slightly to the left of you, C-Bacon, but his mantra was "all I care about are results." To his credit, he got good results, but I'm not sure how, when he spent more time talking up his history of great results than he did helping us attain ours. I just know that I heard it a lot from him when I didn't understand why I didn't get a better grade in the class due to my extensive discussion participation, and that he was full of shit because his hand-picked pet projects for AP psych would get breaks, and younger siblings of former students he liked would get breaks, but I didn't.

[cbacon 0]

I guess that comes along with the whole structure of the teacher-student relationship in general.

 

The point you made about the door being closed before a certain time is a perfect example of the teacher-student authority complex. I think it is natural to question authority and hierarchy because these things are inhumane and irrational. Man, that's what school is, suppressing deviance. That's what discipline is for, and all kids are subject to discipline in school. Even something as basic as having to ask to go the bathroom is completely humiliating and degrading. Probably the worst thing that discipline can do is break you so that you don't question authority anymore and you internalize your own oppression, you "learn your place." Of course, from an authoritarian perspective, this is viewed as a positive.

[Gary Floyd 0]

That's a rough outline. There's certainly much more than that in terms of structure, and I haven't even begun to get into the ways that the material itself is intended to support capitalist exploitation.

Congradulations C-Bacon, you have somehow managed to out-stupid Jerk. I hope you are proud.

 

Not everything is Capitalism's fault, you fucking stereotype. Just stop posting here. People like you are the kind of people who give liberals a bad name.

[cbacon 0]

I'm no liberal >:C

 

Why so angry, floyd?

[Gary Floyd 0]

I'm no liberal >:C

 

Why so angry, floyd?

Because you are 23 years old and still complaining about Capitalism like an angry 17 year old vegan. Seriouslly, grow up.

[Slayer 0]

Well I think we know what the C in C-Bacon stands for

[cbacon 0]

I'm no liberal >:C

 

Why so angry, floyd?

Because you are 23 years old and still complaining about Capitalism like an angry 17 year old vegan. Seriouslly, grow up.

 

I'm 24, actually. And i'm not at all angry, you're the one throwing a hissy fit.

 

I think the problem is that most of you guys are not looking at my arguments constructively, but rather opt for the typical knee-jerk reactions because the arguments I make are radical. I'm not trying to paint the effects of capitalism as this sort of mass conspiracy by a bunch of suits, this is just systemic results of artificial social constructs that are pretty archaic and people accept it as the status quo. I mean, I pretty much disagree with 90% Czech's politicial views, but at least he's adding something in this thread. And it's not because he's more or less agreeing with some of the points i've made, it's because he's not taking cheap insult route (hence, I rarely read anything Invader posts, as he never adds anything, ever)

 

You can be bitter about society's failings or you can work towards changing things, which of course requires faith that humanity can change, which you can get from studying history and looking at the changes that have happened with the success of progressive values. The first step in working towards dismantling oppression is to understand it.

[Guest Eagle Man]

I'm wary to go the "evil capitalism" route, because I think capitalism is groovy, but there are a lot of aspects of the educational institution that are faulty and damaging to kids. If I find myself with a son or daughter somewhere down the line, I hope he or she will have inherited my autodidacticism (and my wife's, if I'm seeking out people like myself) and can opt out of the whole school thang.

[Gary Floyd 0]

Let's make a compromise.

 

Neither C-Bacon or I3K can reproduce. It's too late for Jerk.

[2GOLD 0]

The purpose of primary education (including high school) is to train people to be exploited by capitalism

I quit reading after this sentence

 

I considered drinking after reading that sentence and I made a promise never to do it. Some things just make you want to reach for a bottle.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Let's make a compromise.

 

Neither C-Bacon or I3K can reproduce. It's too late for Jerk.

 

I'll have to check with my wife and get back to you on this.

 

C-Bacon, what would you propose instead of capitalism? Some form of socialism?

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

Socialists don't have to go to work on time!

[EricMM 0]

Social Studies. He also taught Woodworking which I also did well in. I actually always did extremely well in English, I even took advanced classes. My spelling sucked but otherwise I did very well.

But did you learn anything?

 

I learned waaaaaaay more in my Geometry, Comp. Religions, and say 11th grade English than I did in say Algebra II, C++, and 9th grade English.

 

Why? Better, more liberal teachers. Teachers who let us ask which questions we wanted to ask, and would actually listen to us.

 

Actually ditto my shop class too.

 

There was a HUGE difference in MY performance based upon how much I liked/respected/listened to a teacher. And that was based upon them not annoying the shit out of me.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Socialists don't have to go to work on time!

 

Yes, because time is just a social construct designed to get people to be efficient and get stuff done. How archaic.

[Guest Eagle Man]

Wisconsin is weird about time. Time, and posted speed limits. It must be all the Germanic obedience or something.

[SuperJerk 0]

I'm no liberal >:C

 

Why so angry, floyd?

Because you are 23 years old and still complaining about Capitalism like an angry 17 year old vegan. Seriouslly, grow up.

See, and here I was thinking he sounded like a dumb college kid.

[Special K 0]

Hey! Teacher! Leave those kids alone!

 

It goes without saying that better teachers will get more respect from their students. However, lets look at ways to improve the quality of the teaching (and the accountability of teachers) rather than strip them of the option of exercising their authority.

 

And this 'ageism' thing is sheer bullshit. Children are inexperienced in the world and lack certain skills, which makes parenting, guidance and education a necessity. Children are not any lesser for their naivete, they are much richer. Children are wonderful, and I hope to have a couple myself some day. However, that doesn't mean they're equal. I think adults should avoid talking down to children, they can sense condescention. That doesn't mean I'm going to let a five-year-old drive a car, or drink, or have sex. If all ages were trully equal, no one would bat an eye at pedophilia. Kids need some guidance in their life, sometimes against their wishes. This shouldn't be a radical concept to anyone.

 

And not all people are equal in general. The law should treat them equally, but that does not, in fact make them equal. Some people are smarter, or kinder, or better-looking, or more athletic, or more ambitious than others. Where you attach your values is your own decision, but that's just the truth.

 

And some people, kids, teenagers, and adults, are just assholes. They just are! Brought up right, given opportunities, and they're just miserable mean people. Some of those people grow up to be *gasp* teachers! If you're being an insufferable prick, you might deserve to get fired from your job, and you might deserve to be kicked out of class. Teachers should be accountable for exercising their authority, but they do need the option.

 

School probably should expose children to capitalism. It's called preparing for life, seeing as the entire western world (even Canada!) is, in fact, capitalist!

 

Anyway, let the kids have their cell phones and iPods. That's just dumb.

 

And invader, no one "needs" cell phones or beepers, but boy howdy, they can sure be useful! We don't 'need' electric lighting either.

 

Lastly, Bruce Campbell and Ed McMahon? BEST SCHOOL EVAH!

[Gary Floyd 0]

I'm no liberal >:C

 

Why so angry, floyd?

Because you are 23 years old and still complaining about Capitalism like an angry 17 year old vegan. Seriouslly, grow up.

See, and here I was thinking he sounded like a dumb college kid.

Well, I just got off the phone talking to my Vegan Punk Rock fan brother, and even he thinks what Bacon said is retarded. So maybe saying "he sounds like an angry 17 year old vegan" is incorrect.

[cbacon 0]

Let's make a compromise.

 

Neither C-Bacon or I3K can reproduce. It's too late for Jerk.

 

I'll have to check with my wife and get back to you on this.

 

C-Bacon, what would you propose instead of capitalism? Some form of socialism?

 

Ideally, a form of anarcho-socialism would provide for a far more democratic and egalitarian society.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

This C-Bacon post brought to you by Noam Chomsky.

 

You can purchase Noam's new book, Why America Sucks: Part 12, Electric Boogaloo at Border's and other fine retailers.

[Gary Floyd 0]

Let's make a compromise.

 

Neither C-Bacon or I3K can reproduce. It's too late for Jerk.

 

I'll have to check with my wife and get back to you on this.

 

C-Bacon, what would you propose instead of capitalism? Some form of socialism?

 

Ideally, a form of anarcho-socialism would provide for a far more democratic and egalitarian society.

You are just fucking with us at this point, aren't you?

 

Seriously, someone please ban this guy from the CE folders.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

An anarcho-socialism society might sound ideal, on paper. The fact is that we started out with such societies. Society evolved into monarchies, republics, democracies etcetera for the simple reason that such society is not feasible on a large scale. The natural process of a lawless society is to form order.