NBA Playoffs 2007: Round 1

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

Baron Davis, Tracy Mcgrady, and Gerald Wallace(Wallace was the starting two guard for most of the year for the Bobcats)

How many Bobcats games did you watch? Wallace started more games at power forward than he did at shooting guard.

 

 

Quite a few. That whole atlanta thing. BobCats, Grizzlies and atlanta alls the time. And he started ALOT of games at two guard before Matt Carol stepped up and did his thing. Right around the time Brevin Knight went down unti matts explosion in the last two months, it was Wallace at the two. Not counting that week of the Derek Anderson experiment.

First, my apologies for the (very) late response. You're wrong, and I knew that you were wrong the moment I saw this post, but it just so happened that you posted this just after I'd gotten to work. And, based on my interpretation of your response to me, I figured that any attempt on my part to tell you that you were wrong was going to devolve into a pissing match of who watched more games, so I decided to wait until I got off work and could devote some free time to compiling the hard evidence (in the form of the "official" box scores from NBA.com) to prove you wrong.

 

 

And here it is...

 

 

 

Here are links to the box scores of all seventy-one of the games that Wallace started this season (he played in seventy-two):

 

Nov 1 - vs Pacers (F)

Nov 3 - @ Grizzlies (F)

Nov 4 - vs Cavaliers (F)

Nov 8 - @ Celtics (F)

Nov 10 - vs Supersonics (F)

Nov 12 - vs Nuggets (F)

Nov 14 - @ Hornets (F)

Nov 15 - @ Spurs (F)

Nov 18 - @ Magic (F)

Nov 20 - vs Mavericks (F)

Nov 22 - vs Celtics (F)

Nov 24 - @ Pistons (F)

Nov 25 - vs Heat (F)

Nov 28 - @ Nets (F)

Nov 29 - @ Hawks (F)

 

Dec 1 - @ Wizards (F)

Dec 3 - vs Pistons (F)

Dec 6 - vs Spurs (F)

Dec 8 - vs Rockets (F)

Dec 10 - vs Suns (F)

Dec 13 - @ Cavaliers (F)

Dec 14 - vs Magic (F)

Dec 16 - vs Celtics (F)

Dec 20 - @ Knicks (F)

Dec 22 - vs Jazz (F)

Dec 23 - @ Bulls (F)

Dec 26 - @ Mavericks (F)

Dec 27 - vs Wizards (F)

Dec 29 - vs Lakers (F)

Dec 30 - @ Pacers (F)

 

Jan 19 - @ Hawks (F)

Jan 20 - vs Hawks (F)

Jan 22 - @ Raptors (F)

Jan 24 - vs Pistons (F)

Jan 26 - @ Lakers (F)

Jan 27 - @ Warriors (F)

Jan 29 - @ Nuggets (F)

Jan 31 - vs Knicks (F)

 

Feb 2 - @ Cavaliers (F)

Feb 3 - vs Warriors (F)

Feb 5 - @ Heat (F)

Feb 7 - @ 76ers (F)

Feb 9 - vs Blazers (F)

Feb 10 - @ Rockets (F)

Feb 14 - vs Bulls (F)

Feb 20 - vs Hornets (F)

Feb 21 - @ Timberwolves (F)

Feb 23 - vs 76ers (F)

Feb 24 - vs Raptors (F)

Feb 26 - @ Clippers (F)

Feb 28 - @ Kings (F)

 

Mar 1 - @ Trailblazers (F)

Mar 4 - @ Supersonics (F)

Mar 5 - @ Jazz (F)

Mar 7 - @ Suns (F)

Mar 10 - vs Grizzlies (F)

Mar 12 - vs Magic (F)

Mar 14 - vs Kings (F)

Mar 16 - vs Clippers (F)

Mar 17 - @ Bucks (F)

Mar 20 - vs Cavaliers (F)

Mar 21 - @ Celtics (F)

Mar 23 - @ 76ers (F)

Mar 28 - vs Hawks (F)

Mar 30 - vs Bucks (F)

 

Apr 1 - @ Raptors (F)

Apr 3 - vs Wizards (F)

Apr 4 - @ Wizards (F)

Apr 6 - vs Pacers (F)

Apr 8 - @ Heat (F)

Apr 10 - vs Heat (F)

 

 

Now, I'll be happy to entertain any rational argument that you may have for why NBA.com's box scores are completely wrong, and Gerald really was starting at G, and Derek Anderson and Matt Carroll and Adam Morrison really were starting at F... I mean, I watched close to seventy Bobcats games on League Pass this season (they're my second-favorite team after the Kings), and actually saw the announced starting lineups with Gerald billeted at F with my own eyes, but if you have any reasonable explanation for why my memory is faulty and those box scores are totally inaccurate, I'm all ears. Nevertheless, by my count, Wallace started roughly zero games at shooting guard. Granted, he spent a lot of time guarding shooting guards, but that's not really the same as starting the position.

 

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Pretty fun game, good to see Dirk take over for once. The officiating was about as bad as usual, nothing screamed consipiracy on this one, and I doubt the NBA is going to give a Cuban owned team any favors. The game was really done over when Jackson got ejected anyway.

[Ripper 0]

I think he's referring to how Baron forced his way out of New Orleans much the same way Carter did in Toronto.

 

 

Now that is complete and utter bullshit. Baron was hurt all the time but when he played he played like a mad man.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3326/g...kvLYF?year=2004

 

He was traded after the Feb 23rd game I believe. Byron Scott didn't like his work ethic, which I don't think people will argue with, but he was busting his ass when Byron let him play. There were alot of "He came in and I didn't think he was in good enough shape so I sent him home" moments that year in New Orleans. He didn't force himself out, Byron Scott forced him out because he didn't want him on his team.

 

King, your memory of the Magic series is insanely wrong. Baron carried them in the 4th quarter of those games, was a monster on the boards and assist and steals and was just great all around just like he did in that 7 game Miami series before he went down to (suprise) injury in game 7. Just like he carried the team beause all the other scorers went down to injury in that Philly Series the year before(he did to by the way). ANd he was pretty amazing in that series where they swept Miami and turned in another great series against the Bucks after that.

 

So basically you are saying that a guy that has been pretty much great in all six playoff series that he has ever played in wasn't good because of his shooting percentage.

 

First, my apologies for the (very) late response. You're wrong, and I knew that you were wrong the moment I saw this post, but it just so happened that you posted this just after I'd gotten to work. And, based on my interpretation of your response to me, I figured that any attempt on my part to tell you that you were wrong was going to devolve into a pissing match of who watched more games, so I decided to wait until I got off work and could devote some free time to compiling the hard evidence (in the form of the "official" box scores from NBA.com) to prove you wrong.

 

 

And here it is...

 

 

 

Here are links to the box scores of all seventy-one of the games that Wallace started this season (he played in seventy-two):

 

Nov 1 - vs Pacers (F)

Nov 3 - @ Grizzlies (F)

Nov 4 - vs Cavaliers (F)

Nov 8 - @ Celtics (F)

Nov 10 - vs Supersonics (F)

Nov 12 - vs Nuggets (F)

Nov 14 - @ Hornets (F)

Nov 15 - @ Spurs (F)

Nov 18 - @ Magic (F)

Nov 20 - vs Mavericks (F)

Nov 22 - vs Celtics (F)

Nov 24 - @ Pistons (F)

Nov 25 - vs Heat (F)

Nov 28 - @ Nets (F)

Nov 29 - @ Hawks (F)

 

Dec 1 - @ Wizards (F)

Dec 3 - vs Pistons (F)

Dec 6 - vs Spurs (F)

Dec 8 - vs Rockets (F)

Dec 10 - vs Suns (F)

Dec 13 - @ Cavaliers (F)

Dec 14 - vs Magic (F)

Dec 16 - vs Celtics (F)

Dec 20 - @ Knicks (F)

Dec 22 - vs Jazz (F)

Dec 23 - @ Bulls (F)

Dec 26 - @ Mavericks (F)

Dec 27 - vs Wizards (F)

Dec 29 - vs Lakers (F)

Dec 30 - @ Pacers (F)

 

Jan 19 - @ Hawks (F)

Jan 20 - vs Hawks (F)

Jan 22 - @ Raptors (F)

Jan 24 - vs Pistons (F)

Jan 26 - @ Lakers (F)

Jan 27 - @ Warriors (F)

Jan 29 - @ Nuggets (F)

Jan 31 - vs Knicks (F)

 

Feb 2 - @ Cavaliers (F)

Feb 3 - vs Warriors (F)

Feb 5 - @ Heat (F)

Feb 7 - @ 76ers (F)

Feb 9 - vs Blazers (F)

Feb 10 - @ Rockets (F)

Feb 14 - vs Bulls (F)

Feb 20 - vs Hornets (F)

Feb 21 - @ Timberwolves (F)

Feb 23 - vs 76ers (F)

Feb 24 - vs Raptors (F)

Feb 26 - @ Clippers (F)

Feb 28 - @ Kings (F)

 

Mar 1 - @ Trailblazers (F)

Mar 4 - @ Supersonics (F)

Mar 5 - @ Jazz (F)

Mar 7 - @ Suns (F)

Mar 10 - vs Grizzlies (F)

Mar 12 - vs Magic (F)

Mar 14 - vs Kings (F)

Mar 16 - vs Clippers (F)

Mar 17 - @ Bucks (F)

Mar 20 - vs Cavaliers (F)

Mar 21 - @ Celtics (F)

Mar 23 - @ 76ers (F)

Mar 28 - vs Hawks (F)

Mar 30 - vs Bucks (F)

 

Apr 1 - @ Raptors (F)

Apr 3 - vs Wizards (F)

Apr 4 - @ Wizards (F)

Apr 6 - vs Pacers (F)

Apr 8 - @ Heat (F)

Apr 10 - vs Heat (F)

 

 

Now, I'll be happy to entertain any rational argument that you may have for why NBA.com's box scores are completely wrong, and Gerald really was starting at G, and Derek Anderson and Matt Carroll and Adam Morrison really were starting at F... I mean, I watched close to seventy Bobcats games on League Pass this season (they're my second-favorite team after the Kings), and actually saw the announced starting lineups with Gerald billeted at F with my own eyes, but if you have any reasonable explanation for why my memory is faulty and those box scores are totally inaccurate, I'm all ears. Nevertheless, by my count, Wallace started roughly zero games at shooting guard. Granted, he spent a lot of time guarding shooting guards, but that's not really the same as starting the position.

 

If you are prepared to say that Raymond Felton was playing the two guard for the Bobcats and not another point in the back court, then you are right because I can't argue with the "Whatever position they say he is" thing. But I am going to say that a perimeter guy that is defending two guards, and being defended by two guards is a two guard and that the guy that is defended by the opposing small forward and is defending the opposing small forward, more times than not, is the small forward.

[Guest]

King, your memory of the Magic series is insanely wrong. Baron carried them in the 4th quarter of those games, was a monster on the boards and assist and steals and was just great all around just like he did in that 7 game Miami series before he went down to (suprise) injury in game 7. Just like he carried the team beause all the other scorers went down to injury in that Philly Series the year before(he did to by the way). ANd he was pretty amazing in that series where they swept Miami and turned in another great series against the Bucks after that.

 

So basically you are saying that a guy that has been pretty much great in all six playoff series that he has ever played in wasn't good because of his shooting percentage.

This is such revisionist history. As far as the Magic series goes, if you take 29 shots and make 12, you nearly shoot your team out of the game to begin with. That's what I was trying to say, that even though his other numbers were good, they DID win the game in spite of him. Campbell and PJ Brown were never great finishers at the rim. How do you think they got their points? Jump hooks? Nah, impossible. [/sarcasm]

 

As for the Philadelphia series, I guess you've never seen the point totals. I'm going to give you a link to this website. You can find everything you wanted to know here. Great website. Whenever I get into a debate, this is where I go.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/2003.html

 

Baron had ONE good game that led to a victory. ONE. And I only say it was good because of his point total, despite the fact that he went 11-26 from the field. It didn't hurt that Jerome Moiso had the game of his life. I won't dispute the Miami series, that's the one that I'll say he played great in. He was ok in the Milwaukee series, but he was in foul trouble all the time. So it's hard to get a gauge on how he was, statistically.

 

I'm just glad you didn't bring up the New Jersey series in 01-02. That is one of the worst playoff performances known to man, point totals be damned.

 

Just to reference, when I'm talking about a player's scoring totals, if his percentage is shitty I'm not going to like it. If Kobe scores 50 on 50 shots, I'm not going to like it. That's just my opinion.

[Ripper 0]

Oh fucking hell, work got in the way of my long post about Davis's playoff performances and I lost.

 

I will just advise you to check out the stats from your own provided links again. I don't see how you can say the guy has played a bad playoff series as of yet. INCLUDING the one against Jersey.

 

And I think you are being really nitpicky here. Basically in the games where baron shot great, was great on the boards, and great with his assist, you are saying that they don't count if the team didn't win. The argument is that Baron Davis is money in the playoffs. To say they won that Magic Series in SPITE of him is just plain ridiculous. They won 3 games and he had triple doubles in two of those wins where he outscored and outrebounded PJ Brown and Eden Cambell(combined in one of the games). And he shot 45% from the field for that series counting that horrible game 2 he had.

 

He had ONE bad game in that series and that was the one they lost. I don't see how you can POSSIBLY say that they won that DESPITE him. They won BECAUSE of him plain and simple.

[Guest]

I'm going to stop after this because I'm clearly debating something with someone that is heavily biased towards Baron Davis, but in the Jersey series Baron broke the 45% barrier once, was in foul trouble in every game, shot a whopping 1 for 10 from three in a Game 4 that they HAD to WIN at home no less, pulled a Shaq from the line in that game 4, and had three 4 turnover games.

 

The only thing that Baron's been consistently good at during the playoffs is playing defense and getting a good number of steals. His ball distribution has been great in some games, while in others it vanishes.

 

And he shot 45% from the field for that series counting that horrible game 2 he had.

False. My math was wrong last night, but yours is wrong today. 40.2% from the field. One thing that must be remembered about Baron's rebounding performance in the 01-02 Magic series is that the Magic were in the bottom 5 of the league in rebounding. Outside of T-Mac, the only guys that cracked 4.5 rebounds per game were Grant Hill and Horace Grant. And Grant Hill only played 14 games. So needless to say, Baron was not putting in a lot of work on the glass.

 

That Magic team sucked dick to begin with. So even if I were to concede that Baron played well against them (which I am not), is that a big accomplishment in the first place? I'd say it's not.

 

And that's that.

[Ripper 0]

Dude, what are you talking about?

 

Orlando Series:

 

Game One: 28 points, 1 block, 3 steals 7 assist and 7 rebounds. 7-9 FT and 9-24 from the field. So 38% from the field that game although he did contribute quite alot. By the way, the Warriors won this game with the second closest scorer having 14 points. The team had 29 field goals and Baron provided 16 of them either by scoring or assist. What a HORRIBLE game.

 

Game Two: His bad game. He had 11 points on 4-15 shooting 3 steals 1 block and 10 assist and 4 rebounds. Thus 26% from the field. Team had 34 field goals and he provided 14 of them. This was actually a bad game.

this series IN SPITE of him? Come on dude. Please explain to me how that is not bias against the guy. Please explain away any of these games. He has ONE bad game they lose it, and the rest he puts up great numbers and carries the team and you are trying to give the credit to PJ Brown and David Wesley? Come on now.

 

Now that Jersey series which you called "THe worse playoff performance in history"

 

Game one: 23 points 5 assist, 6 rebounds and SEVEN steals, 9-23 from the field(39%). 14 of teams 36 field goals from him.

 

Game two: 21 points, 7 assist, 5 rebounds 2 blocks and 1 steal 9-20 from the field(45%) 16 of teams 32 field goals.

 

Game three: 26 points 7 rebounds 8 assist another SEVEN steals 9-24 shooting(37%) and 17 of teams 41 field goals.

 

Game four: 20 points 5 rebounds 6 assist 4 steals. 5-19 shooting(26 percent) 11 of teams 27 field goals.

 

Game five: 13 points, 8 assist, 2 steals 4-15 shooting. This is the game he was in foul trouble. this was a bad game, he only 37 minutes.

 

So what you are basically saying is because he didn't shoot well, him leading the team in steals, assist, points, provided just about half of the teams offense, it was the WORSE playoff performance ever.

 

And I am biased.

 

He shot 48 percent from the field and 40 percent from three the year before in the platyoffs, but yeah...ignore that.

 

He shot 45 perent from the field the next year to go with 20 points and 8 assist.

 

But yeah...shooting 37.5 percent in 02 is his playoff profile in a nutshell.

 

He is a volume scorer, just like Allen Iverson but just live Iverson can, has and will carry a team on his back.

[alfdogg 0]

I love watching Michael Finley shoot. I can't think of too many players that have a stroke like he does.

[Ripper 0]

He and Ben Gordon have probably the best looking strokes to me.

[alfdogg 0]

I posted that after his second three, btw. This guy is feeling it.

[Golgo 13 0]

The Nuggets are a bunch of weak-willed and soft-hearted pussies. If only Melo and AI had enough time during the season to braid each other's hair, they could've maybe possibly won two games; there's another convenient excuse for the Nuggets since they can't really rely on blaming injuries this year. They just have a bunch of problems.

 

Hindsight may be 20/20 but since the Nuggets rely on sinking teams early I really thought that, although two out of the three have been great in their roles after the trades, Smith or Kleiza should've remained in the SL to stretch the floor and go lights out when need be with Blake providing stability off the bench.

[Ripper 0]

Eh. They lost to the better team. That simple. They would have needed to pull an upset to win. I don't see how any nugget fan has anything to complain about. A win would have been surprising.

[Golgo 13 0]

Just give me some improvement over these past few seasons. That's all I ask. The leap from horrible years that preceded it is great and all but it's for naught if all we're gonna do is win one and go home each post-season.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

I can't accept any opinion that calls Iverson weak-willed and soft-hearted. He's one of the toughest competitors in the league and definetely top 5 when it comes to heart and determination.

[Golgo 13 0]

That was a cheap shot but he's still one of only a few Nuggets that refuses to fold. The bottom line is that as a team they didn't get it done and it likely would've been the same result even if Iverson wasn't around. It seems that even after four years they're happy just being in the playoffs and are still content as the plucky underdogs who give a tough fight instead of meeting expectations and becoming the team they could easily be. In any case the bench pulling a disappearing act didn't help anyone.

[Just John 0]

The Nuggets really aren't that good. Sure, they have two top scorers, but the team defense and bench are both pretty weak. There was no way they were going to beat a complete team like the Spurs.

 

And good work by LA not pulling their pants down and bending over in Phoenix and giving the Suns a little run in Game 5. That's way more than I expected from them. That Suns/Spurs series should be really fun.

[Guest Richard McBeef]

Let's talk commercials on TNT. Who's cuter: the redhead on the plane in the Wendy's commercial or the girl in the Radio Shack commercial with the records?

[Guest]

The Lakers lost this game because Kobe sucked.

 

We lost this series and will continue to lose every year in the first round until three things are done.

 

1. Get a third scoring option via trade. If this is not done this offseason, I will not contribute any more money to this organization until it is done.

 

2. Buy a video machine to help teach these guys how to play some goddamn defense.

 

3. Do not acquire any more players that don't leave everything out on the court. No more Kwame Browns, Vladimir Radmanovics, and Smush Parkers. I don't care if the guys we get suck shit, if they play hard like Turiaf then suffering through them playing bad is a whole lot easier.

 

And considering that Kobe just put the pressure on management and said that this team has not improved in three seasons and that it's crap, that guarantees something's going down this offseason.

 

His exact words were, "do something and do it NOW".

[Guest Queen Leelee]

Yay, Kobe's gone.

[alfdogg 0]

ESPN fails at grammar

 

 

"Raise your hand if your ready to face the Spurs. Thanks, Steve."

 

EDIT: Ha, they changed it.

[Guest Vitamin X]

good Bill Simmons blog on the Mavs-Warriors series (I think this is before Game 5, though):

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons

 

also, Don Nelson drinking a cold beer and using Star Wars analogies after Game 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK1jqnEF_U

 

Gotta love this guy.

[Ripper 0]

If you are a Laker fan, or basketball fan in general, and didn't appreciate what Lamar Odem just left out on the court in this series, I think something is wrong with you.

[Guest Queen Leelee]

Indeed. Torn cartilage in your shoulder isn't that painful, but trying to make the usual movements in basketball with it, and getting it bumped constantly? And to score like he did? Fuck. The smart move probably would have been to bench him, though... since the Lakers had no chance with him anyway.

[Guest]

If you are a Laker fan, or basketball fan in general, and didn't appreciate what Lamar Odem just left out on the court in this series, I think something is wrong with you.

Oh, I appreciate it. I don't appreciate that a majority of his teammates knew the condition he and Luke Walton were playing in and left their balls and heart back at the airport.

[Ripper 0]

If you are a Laker fan, or basketball fan in general, and didn't appreciate what Lamar Odem just left out on the court in this series, I think something is wrong with you.

Oh, I appreciate it. I don't appreciate that a majority of his teammates knew the condition he and Luke Walton were playing in and left their balls and heart back at the airport.

 

 

Yeah, I felt for Luke Walton too.

 

Odem, Turiaff, Walton and Kobe. 4 guys that gave their everything despite injuries or lack of PT. WHY is that not 4 of your starting 5?

[Guest]

It should have been our starting 5 for this series, with Farmar also in the lineup. I would rather see the Lakers get blown out every game with guys that play hard every night, than see the lazy guys play hard for one game and get us a win. I wish we would have been swept.

 

Oh well, it's dramatic re-tooling time. Because if it isn't done this offseason, Kobe will be traded in the next.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Kobe doesn't even have to get traded, he has an opt-out option the following year in `09. I believe he'll stick around maybe as long as PJ does, which from all reports isn't very long either. It'll be incredibly strange to imagine Kobe in anything but a Lakers uniform.

 

He'll be 30 by then I believe, but that's still well in his prime and you can bet someone will pay top dollar for him.

[Ripper 0]

Kobe in another uniform would just be....wrong.

[Guest]

I could not imagine him leaving. That's why some big shit will go down before the start of next season.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I've made mention of this before, but the NBA's horrible salary cap punishes teams like the Lakers. It's what has caused the NBA to have three or four good teams, three or four bad teams and 20 others who are completely mediocre. The Lakers are now stuck in this wasteland.

 

They have no chance to land a decent draft pick based on where they are picking, and the salary system will keep them from adding another talent to Kobe+Odom. There is really no way for them to make the leap into the upper eschelon because they aren't allowed to acquire the talent. It's a horrible system that needs to be revised because it has done nothing for the NBA since it was implemented.