NBA Playoffs 2007: Round 1

[Black Lushus 0]

the possibility of the Bulls winning 8 in a row is staggering...they definitely would have gotten it done

[Just John 0]

Oh man, I never realized there was so much resentment for those Rockets championships. Not that it surprises me, since everyone thinks they'd have shot without Jordan in the league. I'm glad Olajuwon got a couple rings and gave Houston sports something to be proud of, even if it left other HOF'ers like Ewing, Barkley, Miller, etc in the cold.

 

I always wondered how a series between the Rockets and the Bulls with MJ would've turned out. The Bulls had no answer for Hakeem in the pre-Rodman days, but I don't know if anyone ever had an answer for Jordan once he turned it on.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Back to the present, who shall win the Jazz/Rockets game tonight? There's a bit of controversy of Yao saying that the Jazz could win in Houston but that they (The Rockets) had no shot in Utah.

[cabbageboy 0]

The Rockets were blatant lame duck champions, only getting two titles because they happened to make the Finals when Jordan was retired in 1994, and not back in the groove in 1995. Hell, I'm not 100% sure that Houston was much better than Chicago in 1994 and 95 without Jordan, much less with him (Houston was 3 games better in 1994 and had the exact same record in 1995). You know, with Jordan retired, the baseball strike, and that crap Chargers team making the Super Bowl 1994 was a pretty awful year in sports. I guess NY Rangers fans were happy.

 

Hell, if the Utah Jazz had made their two finals appearances in 1994 and 95 instead of 1997 and 98 they would have 2 rings.

 

Taking a look at the 1994 playoffs I see that the Atlanta Hawks were the #1 seed in the East....WTF??? I honestly didn't even remember them making the playoffs that year. Certainly no one thought they were any sort of serious contender. I am hazy on this since I figured NY/Chicago was a 1/4 matchup in the 2nd round (since the Knicks were seemingly the top team in the East and the Bulls fell off a bit minus Jordan), and that the Pacers were either a 2 or 3 seed. But in reality the Pacers were 5 and took out the 1 seed Hawks, while NY and Chicago were the 2/3 series.

[Ripper 0]

That was the year that they had the number one record and then said "Hey, you know what we should do? Trade Dominique Wilkins! That would be a great. Trade our top player while we have the TOP RECORD IN THE EAST".

 

They were contenders up until that point.

 

And to the people that don't think the Rockets would have won if Jordans Bulls had been there. What. The. Fuck. Ever.

 

The Rockets were deeper, couldn't stop Jordon (who could) but had a guy that made life tough for him (maxwell) they were one of the greatest shooting teams in recent history, and, oh yeah, there was that guy that played Center that no 3 bulls could have stopped. Plus Otis Thorpe could out Grant Horace Grant. In that matchup, there is no way the bulls would have taken those Rocket teams. People think its a possibility that they would go down because of how they struggled with the Knicks, ignoring the fact that the Knicks had Herb Williams, and Patrick Ewing to throw at Olajowan plus Anthony Mason who was one hell of a defender, and Anthony Bonner and they were not bad shooters either (starks stinking it up not withstanding)

 

Anyone thinking the bulls would have won 8 championships in a row are simply nuts. Adding the greatest rebounder in the history of the game and one of the top defensive players ever for those last 3 had a HUGE part in that. Maybe THOSE bulls teams could have taken the Rockets, but not the two that won a championship. Unless you are really thinking that he monster combination of Will Purdue and Bill Wennington were going to stop The Dream. And you couldn't double him. Just ask Orlando or the Knicks.

 

And yes, John "Hot Rod" Williams for Dan Majerle is one of the worst trades in a LONG time. There was absolutely no rhyme or reason for it, noone on the team liked the trade, and it messed up all the chemistry on the team, and yes, that coupled with the firing of Paul Westphal is what lead to Charles wanting out of Phoenix.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I don't think it's fair to call the Rockets undeserving champions. You set out to win the NBA title every year. It's not like the other teams should stop trying when Jordan called it quits. As for the Rockets being too much for the Bulls, if that's true, why did they only win 2 titles, when the Bulls were at their weakest?

[Black Lushus 0]

uh considering the Bulls picked right back up where they left off once Jordan returned, I think it's ENTIRELY in the realm of reality that they could have won 8 straight.

[Ripper 0]

And by the way, I am sick of the "Jordan wasn't back in the groove" bullshit about the 95 playoffs. he only averaged 31.5 points per game and shot 48 percent from the field that year. Numbers a little better than he was the next year BTW. They LOST because the Magic were a better team and Nick Anderson hadn't had his nervous breakdown yet. The next year they added Rodman who was key to them kicking the shit out of the Magic.

 

Cut the revisionist history crap, he was playing the EXACT same way he played the next year in the playoffs. The media just needed an excuse for them losing.

[Ripper 0]

uh considering the Bulls picked right back up where they left off once Jordan returned, I think it's ENTIRELY in the realm of reality that they could have won 8 straight.

 

No. They didn't. They lost, and made changes to the team so that they could beat the team that beat them. Thus, they didn't pick right back up at anything. Once again, throwing the 95 playoffs out the window is just trying to alter history. They ran into a dominant big with a rebounding defensive PF and lost. And that is what they would have run into with the Rockets in the finals, only the Rockets were a better shooting team than the Magic.

 

Hell, Michael Jordan himself said after that Suns series, his body was so exhausted from playing so much basketball for those three years he doesn't think they could have won the 4th.

[Black Lushus 0]

fuck man, he lit the Knicks up for what? 54 points on his first night back to the Garden...dude didn't lose shit!

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Answer my question, Ripper. If Hakeem was this Bulls killer, why did he not win more titles when Jordan was around?

[iggymcfly 0]

And by the way, I am sick of the "Jordan wasn't back in the groove" bullshit about the 95 playoffs. he only averaged 31.5 points per game and shot 48 percent from the field that year. Numbers a little better than he was the next year BTW. They LOST because the Magic were a better team and Nick Anderson hadn't had his nervous breakdown yet. The next year they added Rodman who was key to them kicking the shit out of the Magic.

 

Cut the revisionist history crap, he was playing the EXACT same way he played the next year in the playoffs. The media just needed an excuse for them losing.

 

For real. People forget how huge that Orlando/Chicago series was at the time. It was to a typical playoff series what Mayweather/De La Hoya is to a typical title fight. As in, among people that weren't interested in the sport, everyone was still on the edge of their seat as to how it would turn out. Jordan played pretty well, but he and Pippen got outplayed by Shaq and Penny and that was that. Then, the Magic fell apart in the Finals, the Rockets' nucleus fell apart the next year and the Bulls added Rodman and went back to winning championships. Honestly though, MJ played half the season and had a warmup playoff series, and he'd been playing baseball prior to that so he wasn't exactly out of shape to begin with. By the time he faced the Magic, he was ready. His Bulls just weren't good enough to win the series.

[Ripper 0]

Answer my question, Ripper. If Hakeem was this Bulls killer, why did he not win more titles when Jordan was around?

Well lets see, the year after the championship, they lost Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, Sam Cassell, Robert horry and Mario Elie all got injured right before the playoffs. I don't think i need to explain anymore when the starting 5 were injured thus leading to a quick exit from the playoffs in the second round. I don't think you can chalk up the team being injured as proof of Chicagos dominance.

 

The next year they traded for Barkley and lost in the Confernce finals lost to the Jazz off a John Stockton 3 at the buzzer. Not like they got the crap kicked out of them or anything there. Once again, not sure how this goes towards Chicagos dominance though.

 

The next year was injury o rama, where Drexler finally gave in and retired at the end, and they lost to the jazz in the first round. So basically, injuries, and a John Stockton 3 is why they weren't in the finals after that.

 

Its not like they were in the East so honestly, I don't even see how this is a relevant question.

[bob_barron 0]

You two are Knick fans all of a sudden?

 

I was a Knicks fan until they traded Ewing.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

People forget what a beast the Dream was those years before the injury. The last of the great truly dominating centers, not even the younger more athletic Shaq could keep up with him. Those spin moves on the post.....damn.

[cabbageboy 0]

Answer me this as well...if the Rockets were so awesome why were they only 47-35 in 1995? Let's face it, before the playoffs that year they didn't really seem like any sort of threat to repeat. It wasn't until the Suns blew a 3-1 series lead against them that people started giving any thought to "Oh shit, these guys might repeat."

 

That's mostly what I give the Rockets shit for, the fact that they were a bleh team that actually repeated. The 1994 team was a pretty decent NBA champ that I believe had the top record in the league. It was comical that some writers at the time deemed them "the worst NBA champs ever" when they were a credible winner that year at 58-24 I believe. I mean it's hard to say they're the worst champs ever when there's teams like the 1978 Washington Bullets who were 44-38 and all that. I guess some of it is that the Finals vs. the Knicks was a horrendous eyesore of a series that went the full 7 games, and was interrupted by OJ Simpson's white bronco to boot.

 

As far as 1995 goes, Jordan was back and did all he could but he really came back a bit late to truly make any sort of serious playoff run or gel with the team. Bulls were only like the #5 seed that year, so they won the 1 round they could win and then lost to the Magic.

[iggymcfly 0]

Actually, I've got to retract some of what I said earlier. Just going off of memory, I thought Jordan played 30-35 games, but looking at some actual stats, it looks like he only played in 17 regular season games. The point does he remain that he performed quite well in the playoffs though and that that Chicago team had no answer for Shaq on the defensive end or on the boards. I still don't think the Bulls would have won the title that year even if MJ played 82 games.

[Ripper 0]

You mean that season where they were injured in the start, traded for Clyde Drexler built some chemistry, got in the playoffs and beat the 60-22 Utah Jazz, the 59-23 Phoenix suns, and the 62-20 San Antonio Spurs in the Conference finals, then beat the 57-25 Orlando Magic in the finals. yeah....They were so bleh.

 

The Rockets were one of the hottest teams in the league going into the playoffs that year, they just had a horrible record at the start of the year, and I think Olajawon missed like 8-9 games at the start of the year and Vernon Maxwell was running up in the stands punching people leaving a hole at the 2 guard position. But the fact of the matter is, they beat almost 4 60 win or almost 60 win teams on the way to the finals. Olajawon was averaged 33 points 11 boards and 3 blocks in the playoffs that year. Nothing "bleh" about that.

[Ripper 0]

Actually, I've got to retract some of what I said earlier. Just going off of memory, I thought Jordan played 30-35 games, but looking at some actual stats, it looks like he only played in 17 regular season games. The point does he remain that he performed quite well in the playoffs though and that that Chicago team had no answer for Shaq on the defensive end or on the boards. I still don't think the Bulls would have won the title that year even if MJ played 82 games.

 

 

I knew he had played only 17 games, but he said he never stopped playing basketball or staying in shape during that off season, and he played better in the playoffs that year than he did in the next, only his team lost. The only major thing you can say about that year was that Toni Kukoc's role wasn't as well defined after Jordan came back and it was more solidly defined the next year, but with no Rodman, they weren't winning anyway.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Actually I meant before Jordan retired. Hakeem and Jordan came in the NBA at the same time, but ok. Ignore that part and focus on the post-1995 years instead.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Houston and The Twin Towers actually had more playoff success than the early Jordan/Bulls, even reaching the finals and making a decent run against Bird's Celtics. What does that prove, absolutely nothing about anything. Silly question.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

First of all, it was a real question, not a rhetorical one. For all the talk of Hakeem being this killer center I wondered why the Rockets didn't go to the NBA finals more often. I'm actually ignorant of the Rockets' success back then, as the focus was always on the Bulls, Lakers, Pistons, etc. No need for snippy answers.

[Ripper 0]

First of all, it was a real question, not a rhetorical one. For all the talk of Hakeem being this killer center I wondered why the Rockets didn't go to the NBA finals more often. I'm actually ignorant of the Rockets' success back then, as the focus was always on the Bulls, Lakers, Pistons, etc. No need for snippy answers.

 

 

Okay, if Jordan was such a killer guard, why didn't he win championships when Magic and Bird weren't on their decline? The Rockets won when they got a team around them that could win. Hakeem went to the finals before Jordan ever sniffed them, but lost to that great Celtic team. In the next few years, the team went to shit. Jordans teams were shit in the start and got better thus he won more. Its pretty simple really.

 

 

The all defensive teams were named today and were laughable as alway. SOMEHOW Kobe makes all defensive first team AGAIN over the likes of Ron Artest, Gerald Wallace, Shawn Marion Shane Battier and Josh Smith(all of which didn't make the first or second team). Jermaine O'Neil also didn't make the team. Like I said. Laughable.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

You might as well ask why Jordan didn't win anything before 91? It is rhetorical.

 

 

Proof of the Dream's dominance? Wow. Well, he made MVP season Robinson and young Shaq his bitch. Was a monster defender(even 7th all time in steals!) , fantastic passer and unstoppable scorer. Along with often injured Sampson, he turned the Rockets from losers to Finals runner ups in just a few years; taking them to the titles twice when he got a good supporting cast. Not a bad resume.

[sfaJack 0]

I don't even watch the NBA much and I might be a bit late on this, but anybody that doesn't think the Rockets' two titles were legit needs their head examined.

 

What else, especially the '95 team, would you have them do to prove they were "worthy" of the trophy? As Ripper said, they beat four teams that won at least 57 games--that's damned impressive. Hell, it might be the greatest playoff run in NBA history.

 

Ah, memories. What a fun time in this city...

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

So basically people will remain assholes when I admitted that I was asking out of ignorance? Alrighty. I'll ask other people next time.

[Guest Richard McBeef]

As Ripper said, they beat four teams that won at least 57 games--that's damned impressive. Hell, it might be the greatest playoff run in NBA history.

What about the one-loss 2001 Lakers?

[Ripper 0]

The lakers were THE team that year. In other words, they weren't kicking the crap out of teams with 60 wins. They were the 60 win team.

 

But that one loss team was pretty freakin amazing.

[alfdogg 0]

The all defense teams are determined almost entirely on reputation, and have been for several years. Kobe and Kidd continually making it is proof positive of this. I'm not surprised at all. The only first-timers were Prince and Hinrich, both second-team.

 

Here are the teams:

 

1st

G: Kobe Bryant

G: Raja Bell

F: Bruce Bowen

F: Tim Duncan

C: Marcus Camby

 

2nd

G: Jason Kidd

G: Kirk Hinrich

F: Tayshaun Prince

F: Kevin Garnett

C: Ben Wallace

 

EDIT: Bell is a first-timer, too. I thought he had made it last year on second team.

[Ripper 0]

I still don't get how if its on reputation, how the hell Kobe keeps making the first team. Either way, that is just plain bullshit. Jason Kidd is the only player in the top 10 in steals on either team. And he was number 9.

 

I can understand Josh Smith and Gerald Wallace not getting the nod because they are both on bad teams (although I disagree with it. Both change the game defensively and did it against the best teams in the league night in and night out) but Jermaine, Marion and Artest not making it is ridiculous.