Michael Vick's "Dog Fight" Investigation

[bob_barron 0]

Wow

[Ripper 0]

Dog fighting is fucking cruel. But you don't get arguements from me on hunting but to say dog fighting isn't that big a deal is just wrong.

 

I personally think there is something wrong with anyone that can watch and enjoy watching two dogs tear flesh from each other until the other is dead. Something is fucking wrong with you.

 

I think overall that animal cruelty needs stiffer fines. Like when some asshole teen decides he wants to torture and kill his neighbors 10 year old family cat, that fucker deserves jail time. Dog fighting is the same to me.

 

I am not sure is Vick is guilty or not (I am leaning towards not, although he did get the "Please love me again white people" hair cut the other day and that usually means guilt in my eyes.) but if he is, he needs to be punished and punished HARD.

[Slayer 0]

I bet iggy's made some good money on the dog-fighting circuit

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Georgia Tech will win this year's NCAA dogfighting championships.

[iggymcfly 0]

The point's not whether dog-fighting's necessarily a healthy activity. It's probably not, and yes, it's a little on the cruel side. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be a big deal. Unless you're actually torturing animals to see them suffer (which I don't see being the point of this at all), any animal cruelty charges should be of the fine/probation variety and nothing more.

 

For example, while I'm not into dog-fighting or hunting, I do enjoy the taste of tortured baby calves, and make a point to order them often when I'm at a nice restaurant. That doesn't bother me because it's a simple animal just like a dog. It's not that I'm a dog-fighting proponent, I just think that people need a sense of scale saying someone who fights animals should get a harsher punishment than someone who punched a woman in the face and then tried to have the bouncer killed that pulled him off of her.

[Ripper 0]

The point's not whether dog-fighting's necessarily a healthy activity. It's probably not, and yes, it's a little on the cruel side. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be a big deal. Unless you're actually torturing animals to see them suffer (which I don't see being the point of this at all), any animal cruelty charges should be of the fine/probation variety and nothing more.

 

For example, while I'm not into dog-fighting or hunting, I do enjoy the taste of tortured baby calves, and make a point to order them often when I'm at a nice restaurant. That doesn't bother me because it's a simple animal just like a dog. It's not that I'm a dog-fighting proponent, I just think that people need a sense of scale saying someone who fights animals should get a harsher punishment than someone who punched a woman in the face and then tried to have the bouncer killed that pulled him off of her.

 

LITTLE on the cruel side? They sharpen their teeth and make the bite and tear at each other until one of them is dead.

 

How is that not torturing the animals to see them suffer?

 

I don't know, maybe I am in the extreme here (after all, I still honestly say that if someone was threatening the life of one of my pets, I would have no problem shooting the shit out of them. Some people aren't that extreme I accept that, but yes, I would kill you for my cat.) but a simple fine? Whatever. Real Jail time should be the answer.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Dog fights can last for hours. Lots of hours. And they're incredibly violent, and vile. I don't know nearly enough about the meat industry to say whether or not the way calves and other animals bred for consumption are treated is obscene, but I sure know that dogfighting is.

[Guest George's Box]

Georgia Tech will win this year's NCAA dogfighting championships.

And we'll all be Nowitznesses.

 

it's a little on the cruel side

You're a little on the drooling jackass side.

 

iggymcfly and cabbageboy should have their teeth sharpened for an hours-long, violent, bloody fight to the death for the "Biggest Dumbfuck in the Sports Folder" crown. I don't know who'd win, but I bet iggy would bet on his opponent, thus at worst claiming a Pyrrhic victory of sorts.

[Guest dreamer420]

Damn it, why did iggy have to wait until now to dig up a plethora of quality posts from his colon.

 

Oh, and Czech, you were leading my... I mean, Lincess Preena's competition. If you wouldn't have ostracized it, this would have decided in its glory.

[Guest dreamer420]

Oops.

[Nightwing 0]

The point's not whether dog-fighting's necessarily a healthy activity. It's probably not, and yes, it's a little on the cruel side. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be a big deal. Unless you're actually torturing animals to see them suffer (which I don't see being the point of this at all), any animal cruelty charges should be of the fine/probation variety and nothing more.

 

God, you're just beyond dense.

 

First off, it's beyond cruel. This isn't deer hunting, where the deer doesn't necessarily get shot, and frankly, if it does it's pretty much done in seconds. There's a decent chance that nothing will happen, and if something does, it'll seconds long.

 

Like Edwin says, these can last hours in unsanitary conditions. Sometimes they just put in smaller dogs just to see them ripped limb from limb by others. They are tortured to become meaner (I can't understand how you can't equate this with torture), they are starved to become meaner, and weaker dogs are often thrown into these fights just to get torn apart for entertainment.

 

And somehow, you don't think this is fucking torture? How can you even separate the two from each other? This is a big deal: it borders on psychopathy for people to be able to do this for animals and actually take in enjoyment. Seriously, are you a sociopath or something, because it's pretty easy to see why people consider killing and torturing dozens of innocent dogs for some moron to earn a little extra cash is (just maybe) a little bit horrifying and deserves some outrage.

 

For example, while I'm not into dog-fighting or hunting, I do enjoy the taste of tortured baby calves, and make a point to order them often when I'm at a nice restaurant. That doesn't bother me because it's a simple animal just like a dog. It's not that I'm a dog-fighting proponent, I just think that people need a sense of scale saying someone who fights animals should get a harsher punishment than someone who punched a woman in the face and then tried to have the bouncer killed that pulled him off of her.

 

Your comparisons are weak, and either show 1) You're just being a major jackass, or 2) You're so far beyond idiot, you're hopeless. Let's go through them:

 

Yes, I enjoy steaks. But there are two very crucial differences between killing cows for food and dog-fighting. The first is that killing the cow serves a need: I need food. The cow becomes food, and feeds a person. Is it horrifying? Yes. Is it painful? Oh yes. But it's not meant to be, it's just how it is. Dog-fighting doesn't fulfill a need, and all the torture done in it is completely done on the whims of the people who put it on. They starve the dogs, they torture the dogs, they throw the little ones in to watch them get ripped apart. That's a little different.

 

Oh, and the second difference? I don't go to the slaughterhouse, and watch as the cow becomes a steak, and cheer the workers as they cause more and more pain to the damn creature. This is willful enjoyment of the torture of an animal. I like steaks, but I don't take enjoyment in the death and pain the animal went through to become my food. This is a person cheering on two dogs ripping each other apart.

 

Oh, and once again, you're a fucking moron. How about you go jerk off to Mark Cuban weepy speech for Nowitzki's Season MVP Trophy. Or compose a touching 'Music Video' with Dirk using Creed's "My Sacrifice". Anything that will get you the hell away from this board so we don't have to see you type inane bullshit like "I can see how it is a little cruel" and "What's the difference between this and deer-hunting".

 

Christ, I can't believe people on this board can be this stupid sometimes...

 

Edit: Sorry, this is a bit of a touchy subject with me. I have a few rescues, and this sort of thing just touches a nerve with me.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

This is a touchy subject, so this thread is going to become more heated than others. Maintain some sense of civility, but at the same time flaming is probably inevitable. Expect no mod action on this one.

[iggymcfly 0]

In the first place, I wasn't just talking about steak, I was talking about veal. They do starve the calves, and while I don't know the exact process, I do know that the animal rights people are all up-in-arms about it and seem to think it's torture or something. Also, while ideally a deer gets killed with one shot, if the hunter's aim is off a little bit, the animal can potentially suffer for hours and if he doesn't bother to track the animal down after, it can be days. The point is that jail time's not appropriate for pain being caused to animals.

 

Besides, the main point isn't seeing the animals suffer, right? The point is to breed a fighting machine and have it make quick work of the other dogs and survive. It's not that I'm a proponent of the sport, but I certainly don't want to see one of the most exciting players in the NFL suspended over something this insignificant. Millions of people's entertainment for 8 sundays (or whatever the suspension would be) greatly outweighs a dozen or so dogs reaching an early demise.

 

If you want something to be outraged about, there are plenty of real things to worry about. 10,000 people are killed in Darfur every month. The war-hawk Republicans are trying to bait Iran into a war that could cost thousands of American lives and lead to dangerous instability in the Middle East, possibly even provoking a World War type scenario. The Constitution is being eroded in front of our eyes, and the idea of a capitalist free state is disappearing. These are all things that are worth worrying about. I could care less if some rich football player likes to watch a bunch of mean dogs fighting to the death and wager on the proceedings.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Just because there are worse things, doesn't make it right. I personally hate dogs quite a bit, so I can't say I care as much as others - but animal cruelty just seems so unhealthy to engage in for personal satisfaction. I won't argue that hunting for sport is any better, but unless you're trying to personally accuse someone of hypocrisy, it doesn't seem relevant. Even if someone doesn't really care about the case because it involves animals, I think you have to base your opinion on principle. Is someone who relishes animal cruelty really a healthy individual that should be left to their own devices? I certainly don't think so.

[Hawk 34 0]

Fuck you. You worthless fraction of a man. Don’t you dare attempt to justify this as insignificant and try to hobble around your worthless effort to champion other catastrophic incidents as more worthy causes of concern while practically endorsing cruel suffering of animals. Hide behind your hackneyed comparison with the cattle industry and when that fails, as it has, don’t try to validate this because of the involved party’s occupation. A professional football player or high school drop-out wouldn’t matter in this instance. Anyone associated with dog-fighting is scum regardless of their financial prominence, just as much as anyone who brushes it off as something insignificant.

 

The point is to KILL animals. To get entertainment value out of death and pain. It’s not to create machines and watch beautiful examples of majesty. It’s pure evil and nothing less. You openly admit that animals suffering doesn’t matter as long as Michael Vick runs around on fake grass and throws a ball around. You don’t care as long as you make money off Vick. A dozen or so dogs is the beginning. Countless proven records show that dog-fighting and other forms of animal cruelty is a direct link to psychopathic activity and equally extreme forms of behavior. That’s not important though because you can’t make money off that. Fuck the dogs, put me down for a spot on Vick this Sunday.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

"There are more important things out there" is one of the worst arguments for anything in any context. No one could ever lose a debate if that held any weight.

 

I also think your argument that Vick is "one of the most exciting players in the NFL" and it would suck to suspend him is probably the lamest specious idiot-relativist nonsense I've heard in some time. Too bad it's not AJ Feeley out there shredding dogs to pieces, or we could really learn a lesson from this.

[iggymcfly 0]

One thing I don't like about this argument is that it's just getting the anti-dog fighting crowd more riled up at Michael Vick. Honestly, from the evidence I've heard, it sounds like he wasn't even involved in this, so don't make him the target for all your venom.

 

And I admit the "there are worse things" argument was bad the way I put it, but the point is just to get some sense of scale. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that it deserves prison time or suspension from a football league. And with the standard of rights given to animals in our culture, this is much, much less serious than something like a DUI that actually endangers human beings.

 

The only reason people are mad here is because it's about dogs and dogs are cuddly and cute. If it was a deer or a cow or any of 1,000 other animals with similar intelligence to dogs that people don't keep in their homes, no one would give two shits what happened to them.

 

Oh, and as for the gambling thing, it would be much easier to make money on an underrated Atlanta team with Vick on the sideline than it would if he was playing. I just happen to enjoy watching his play on the field.

[Nightwing 0]

In the first place, I wasn't just talking about steak, I was talking about veal. They do starve the calves, and while I don't know the exact process, I do know that the animal rights people are all up-in-arms about it and seem to think it's torture or something. Also, while ideally a deer gets killed with one shot, if the hunter's aim is off a little bit, the animal can potentially suffer for hours and if he doesn't bother to track the animal down after, it can be days. The point is that jail time's not appropriate for pain being caused to animals.

 

On the Hunting: Potentially, it can suffer for a while. It's honestly more rare than you think, as once the animal is wounded, it's a lot easier to track and put out of its misery. But while that could potentially happen, the intent (And the most often result, if the bullet hits) is a quick, clean, nearly painless kill.

 

You can talk about cattle all you want, and I agree that there is very much a degree of badness there, but it's not done to entertain. It's done to feed people. There is no entertainment value taken in it, there is no betting taken on it, it's there to feed people. It fulfills a necessity, unlike dogfighting.

 

Besides, the main point isn't seeing the animals suffer, right? The point is to breed a fighting machine and have it make quick work of the other dogs and survive. It's not that I'm a proponent of the sport, but I certainly don't want to see one of the most exciting players in the NFL suspended over something this insignificant. Millions of people's entertainment for 8 sundays (or whatever the suspension would be) greatly outweighs a dozen or so dogs reaching an early demise.

 

Fuck you. Seriously, I'm sorry al, you can ban me if you like, but fuck you iggy. You deserve to be pounded on by dozens of people, and it should be televised, because that would entertain me more than anything some spoiled, selfish, utterly moronic superstar could ever do. I don't know if you are purposefully trolling (Any mods reading this should consider banning him, as his argument is bordering on a level of stupidity I find hard to believe he really is doing this for anything more than get a reaction out of us) or just so stupid and stuck up that you don't understand that your little entertaining superstar is, quite possibly, a fucking criminal committing atrocious acts for fun and profit.

 

If you want something to be outraged about, there are plenty of real things to worry about. 10,000 people are killed in Darfur every month. The war-hawk Republicans are trying to bait Iran into a war that could cost thousands of American lives and lead to dangerous instability in the Middle East, possibly even provoking a World War type scenario. The Constitution is being eroded in front of our eyes, and the idea of a capitalist free state is disappearing. These are all things that are worth worrying about. I could care less if some rich football player likes to watch a bunch of mean dogs fighting to the death and wager on the proceedings.

 

Do you use this argument to get out of speeding tickets with your mom's minivan, or when your dad tries punishing you for stealing one of his beers?

 

Yes, there are little things in the world, and there are big things. But just because there are big things, that doesn't mean we must overlook the little things. This little jackass appeal to the more liberal element on this board (Hell, I'm a bit left of center myself) is so fucking outrageous, it's insulting. Is Bush's War in Iraq getting people killed? Yes, it may be. But at least the people over there volunteered for the military. It was their choice, and they aren't being treated in any way nearly comparable.

 

This idea that the Virginia Police somehow have a larger job of apparently taking care of Darfur (In case you haven't noticed, we have things like the UN, Red Cross, and more loosely, the Federal Government to take care of things like that, since I doubt Virginia Cops have the gas mileage to make it to the Sudan, jackass). This includes, believe it or not, enforcing things like state laws. Amazing, isn't it? Local police force taking care of local problems. Wow, novel concept. Your idea that "There are worse things in the world" is like saying "Yeah, Hitler killed 10 million people... but Stalin killed 20 million. So Hitler isn't really as bad as everyone makes him out to be." is so childish, and for the absolutely moronic, deluded idea that it shouldn't count because it might take away from your entertainment value.

 

Fuck off, buddy. I hope someone murders you and gets off because "They are too valuable entertaining the masses", because you obviously don't understand that everything in the world isn't here to 'entertain you'.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

One thing I don't like about this argument is that it's just getting the anti-dog fighting crowd more riled up at Michael Vick. Honestly, from the evidence I've heard, it sounds like he wasn't even involved in this, so don't make him the target for all your venom.

Straw man. The issue is dogfighting. Vick deserves the ire if he's convicted; otherwise, we're talking abstractly here

 

The only reason people are mad here is because it's about dogs and dogs are cuddly and cute. If it was a deer or a cow or any of 1,000 other animals with similar intelligence to dogs that people don't keep in their homes, no one would give two shits what happened to them.

Of course they would! If we raised dogs as livestock they'd be livestock. If there was a way to get cows or dears or platypuses or whatever to fight in a ring for hours, tearing each other to pieces while human trash cheer them on, people would be just as disgusted.

[iggymcfly 0]

While I already admitted that the "worse problems" thing was a bad and poorly phrased argument, that point wasn't in reference to whether the local police should deal with the issue. It was in reference to all the national attention this case is getting which is starting to border on the ridiculous. It's been a headline on ESPN ever since it broke and is also getting way more coverage than it deserves on what are supposed to be the legitimate news networks. If you looked at how many hours of coverage Darfur has gotten the last week and a half on all national news networks compared to how much time Vick's dogfighting escapades have gotten, I'd guess that Vick would win in a landslide. This is not news and the fact that people are outraged over it all around the country is something I find a little silly.

 

Oh, and 'Do you use this argument to get out of speeding tickets with your mom's minivan, or when your dad tries punishing you for stealing one of his beers?" was a cute little ad hominem jab, but I'm driving a 2006 Sonata right now and I'm legal drinking age, so whatever you were implying about me being a stupid high school kid or something is completely off-base. Nice try though.

[Guest George's Box]

The platypus actually maintains a little bit of venom, which would add a fascinating dimension to platypusfighting.

[Nightwing 0]

While I already admitted that the "worse problems" thing was a bad and poorly phrased argument, that point wasn't in reference to whether the local police should deal with the issue. It was in reference to all the national attention this case is getting which is starting to border on the ridiculous. It's been a headline on ESPN ever since it broke and is also getting way more coverage than it deserves on what are supposed to be the legitimate news networks. If you looked at how many hours of coverage Darfur has gotten the last week and a half on all national news networks compared to how much time Vick's dogfighting escapades have gotten, I'd guess that Vick would win in a landslide. This is not news and the fact that people are outraged over it all around the country is something I find a little silly.

 

ESPN is a Sports Network. I don't tune into it for news on Darfur. At any rate, this isn't like you're noble crusade to get people to attention to people in Darfur. We already know why you don't want this to be a big story:

 

Besides, the main point isn't seeing the animals suffer, right? The point is to breed a fighting machine and have it make quick work of the other dogs and survive. It's not that I'm a proponent of the sport, but I certainly don't want to see one of the most exciting players in the NFL suspended over something this insignificant. Millions of people's entertainment for 8 sundays (or whatever the suspension would be) greatly outweighs a dozen or so dogs reaching an early demise.

 

This is about you wanting Vick to get away because you won't see him for those 8 Sundays, you fucking child. I do see the argument of "There are bigger things to worry about here!"

 

Apparently, though, the "bigger things" are the 8 days out of the year that you wouldn't see some millionaire trot out onto the field because he was part of a ring running an utterly inhuman sport. You can cry all you want about how your precious quarterback might not be on the field because of some stupid dogs, but you fail to realize that it's his fault for doing something so gut-wrenchingly moronic and horrific.

 

Oh, and 'Do you use this argument to get out of speeding tickets with your mom's minivan, or when your dad tries punishing you for stealing one of his beers?" was a cute little ad hominem jab, but I'm driving a 2006 Sonata right now and I'm legal drinking age, so whatever you were implying about me being a stupid high school kid or something is completely off-base. Nice try though.

 

"I'm an adult, I can buy my own insurance and everything." - iggymcfly

 

The funny thing is, no matter how much you try, you still come off as that stupid high schooler, since it's not a matter of age as much as it's a matter of maturity. The idea that the torture and deaths of dozens of innocent animals is somehow an acceptable price for some overrated, undeveloped idiot of quarterback to play 8 games in a sport that, in the long run, doesn't matter anything is not something a regular adult thinks. That's something a sociopathic child thinks. So, no matter what car you drive, or if you can drink beer, you are still that stupid little high school kid sitting behind a keyboard.

[Slayer 0]

Shades of FK Teale vs. Frank Zappa Mask, this one

[Nightwing 0]

Is that a wrestling match or something?

[MrRant 0]

You wouldn't know 17 posts.

[Guest George's Box]

Millions of people's entertainment for 8 sundays (or whatever the suspension would be) greatly outweighs a dozen or so dogs reaching an early demise.

EIGHT WHOLE SUNDAYS! AND MAYBE EVEN A MONDAY!

 

Sell your blood, iggy; it's all you have left to offer.

[iggymcfly 0]

There's really no point in trying to use logic here though since all anyone does is distort my words out of context or use emotional appeals and ad hominem attacks.

 

One last time, my main point isn't that it's so important that Vick plays all 16 regular season games. I really don't even care. I don't think I watched a single Falcons game last year anyway. My point is that the whole thing is a non-story. They're fucking animals. The fact that everyone's all up in arms and passionate to defend them just shows how easily manipulated the average American is.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Millions of people's entertainment for 8 sundays (or whatever the suspension would be) greatly outweighs a dozen or so dogs reaching an early demise.

 

I know it's been quoted over and over, but honestly Iggy, how the fuck can you defend this drizzling shit? It's dogfighting goddamit! It's a cruel, inhumane vile "sport" that just highlights just barbaric, evil brutality. There is not ONE positive light I can find out of this stuff (outside of the money, but there are a LOT better things to bet on than this crap). Really, HOW can you defend it Iggy?

 

And welcome to the party Nightwing. Enjoy the stay.

[Guest George's Box]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how entertainment is more important than life.

 

This thread is the scene in Airplane! where everybody lines up to smack that woman.

[Fökai 0]

One last time, my main point isn't that it's so important that Vick plays all 16 regular season games. I really don't even care. I don't think I watched a single Falcons game last year anyway. My point is that the whole thing is a non-story. They're fucking animals. The fact that everyone's all up in arms and passionate to defend them just shows how easily manipulated the average American is.

 

YEEHAW~!