Guest My Pal, the Tortoise Report post Posted December 12, 2007 Can you imagine what Ozzie Guillen would do? He'd call Fukudome a slanty-eyed, sneaky fag and then claim that that's just the way people talked when he was growing up. You make him sound more like a racist old white guy from Bridgeport. "Alls I'm sayin is dere usta be a time when you could call a Chinaman a Chinaman and dey didn't make no big deal outta it! It's those flim-flam artists with der plitical correctness, dey stoled our word." Did Boller have any neat tricks that have no real usefulness during the actual sport, like being able to hit the ball while holding the bat backwards? I'm basing this off of his circus act thing where he would kneel at the 50 and throw the ball through the uprights to impress NFL teams when he was entering the draft. What sort of low-rent mickey mouse operation would find that to be impressiv--oh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2007 Did Boller have any neat tricks that have no real usefulness during the actual sport, like being able to hit the ball while holding the bat backwards? I'm basing this off of his circus act thing where he would kneel at the 50 and throw the ball through the uprights to impress NFL teams when he was entering the draft. How exactly does one hold a baseball bat backwards? You hold the thick end and swing with the thin end. Wouldn't that be upside down? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest My Pal, the Tortoise Report post Posted December 12, 2007 Upside down, backwards, whatever; I knew what he meant. I've used the same example as the hypothetical opposite of "really playing the game the right way." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RyechnaiaSobaka Report post Posted December 12, 2007 Did Boller have any neat tricks that have no real usefulness during the actual sport, like being able to hit the ball while holding the bat backwards? I'm basing this off of his circus act thing where he would kneel at the 50 and throw the ball through the uprights to impress NFL teams when he was entering the draft. How exactly does one hold a baseball bat backwards? You hold the thick end and swing with the thin end. Wouldn't that be upside down? I thought if I said upside down, someone would write in and call me a faggot because there's no up or down side on a baseball bat due to it being the same shape on all sides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2007 Rajai Davis to the bench I guess. Kind of a shame, he's a beast defensively. Career 118 Rate2 in center. If you normalize his batting numbers from last season, he hit .291/.371/.397. Miserable SLG, but the others are quite respectable. Oh well. 219 plate appearances. You can't possibly draw an accurate comparison with an established major leaguer based on that. And what the heck is Rate2? I know it's a BPro statistic, but their explanation is inadequate. And again, you're drawing a conclusion based on 58 defensive games. A 26 year old who can't slug .400 is a bench player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2007 Upside down, backwards, whatever; I knew what he meant. I've used the same example as the hypothetical opposite of "really playing the game the right way." You want to know the funniest part about the whole Kyle Boller thing? My cousin went to high school with him and stayed in touch throughout college. As the draft approached, I asked him how good of a pro Boller might be. He remarked that was going to be awesome because he had seen him throw the ball 60 yards from his knees. I wasn't sure what that had to do with anything, but kept my mouth shut to be nice. I've never been able to confirm if my cousin is Brian Billick or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RyechnaiaSobaka Report post Posted December 12, 2007 A 26 year old who can't slug .400 is a bench player. Unless your name is Scott Podsednik, Dave Roberts, or Juan Pierre. His specialty is defense. Rate is not complicated. A way to look at the fielder's rate of production, equal to 100 plus the number of runs above or below average this fielder is per 100 games. A player with a rate of 110 is 10 runs above average per 100 games, a player with an 87 is 13 runs below average per 100 games, etc. Rate2 is normalized for league difficulty and changes over time. The easiest way to look at it is that 100 is average. Below 100 is below average, above 100 is above average. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2007 And what the heck is Rate2? I know it's a BPro statistic, but their explanation is inadequate. And again, you're drawing a conclusion based on 58 defensive games. A 26 year old who can't slug .400 is a bench player. Baseball Propspectus's defensive metrics are pretty miserable, and they've slowly come around to admitting as such in some of their recent work. I don't know what they do exactly, but it takes a player's outs and factors them into some sort of historical model. They're extemely inaccurate and prone to massive fluctuations from one year to the next. A more reliable system, such as Dewans +/- or The Hardball Times RZR + OOZ is more preferable for defensive evaluations. There isn't much to learn from BPro system's (which also hurts the credibility of their WARP stats). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RyechnaiaSobaka Report post Posted December 12, 2007 And what the heck is Rate2? I know it's a BPro statistic, but their explanation is inadequate. And again, you're drawing a conclusion based on 58 defensive games. A 26 year old who can't slug .400 is a bench player. Baseball Propspectus's defensive metrics are pretty miserable, and they've slowly come around to admitting as such in some of their recent work. I don't know what they do exactly, but it takes a player's outs and factors them into some sort of historical model. They're extemely inaccurate and prone to massive fluctuations from one year to the next. A more reliable system, such as Dewans +/- or The Hardball Times RZR + OOZ is more preferable for defensive evaluations. There isn't much to learn from BPro system's (which also hurts the credibility of their WARP stats). You know I like BP. But I won't use their defensive statistics anymore if you all have a problem with them and their reliability. It's not really controversial to say that Rajai Davis is a very good defensive center fielder though, or that Miguel Tejada is brutal at shortstop. I use a flawed metric to point it out whereas others might just state it as fact. I try to provide at least a little evidence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2007 And what the heck is Rate2? I know it's a BPro statistic, but their explanation is inadequate. And again, you're drawing a conclusion based on 58 defensive games. A 26 year old who can't slug .400 is a bench player. Baseball Propspectus's defensive metrics are pretty miserable, and they've slowly come around to admitting as such in some of their recent work. I don't know what they do exactly, but it takes a player's outs and factors them into some sort of historical model. They're extemely inaccurate and prone to massive fluctuations from one year to the next. A more reliable system, such as Dewans +/- or The Hardball Times RZR + OOZ is more preferable for defensive evaluations. There isn't much to learn from BPro system's (which also hurts the credibility of their WARP stats). You know I like BP. But I won't use their defensive statistics anymore if you all have a problem with them and their reliability. It's not really controversial to say that Rajai Davis is a very good defensive center fielder though, or that Miguel Tejada is brutal at shortstop. I use a flawed metric to point it out whereas others might just state it as fact. I try to provide at least a little evidence. I've been a big fan of BP for a long time (read the book annually and was a long-time subscriber to their website), but many of their metrics are flawed due to questionable underlying assumptions built into their methodology. It's not so much that they are wrong, but you have to be aware of the potential pitfalls, defensive metrics being a prime example. I don't care if you use their stuff or not, but cherry picking stats can sometimes give a false sense of a player's abilities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike546 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 The shit is going to hit the fan tomorrow. Mike and the Mad Dogg got a list of names of players from the Mitchell Report today and were seriously in shock at some of the names. They didn't reveal them, but they hinted that current Yankees, Red Sox and Brave players are on the list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 The shit is going to hit the fan tomorrow. Mike and the Mad Dogg got a list of names of players from the Mitchell Report today and were seriously in shock at some of the names. They didn't reveal them, but they hinted that current Yankees, Red Sox and Brave players are on the list. I believe it's already been stated that there are players from all 30 teams in the report. Just to get the juices flowing, here are 24 names that will appear in the report. These names were submitted from the federal government as part of their probe into PEDs. Rick Ankiel Outfielder Cardinals Signature Pharmacy David Bell Third baseman free agent Applied Pharmacy Marvin Benard Outfielder inactive BALCO Barry Bonds Outfielder free agent BALCO Paul Byrd Pitcher Indians wellness clinic Jose Canseco Outfielder retired Applied Pharmacy Bobby Estalella Outfielder retired BALCO Jason Giambi Designated hitter Yankees BALCO Jay Gibbons Outfielder Orioles Signature Pharmacy Troy Glaus Third baseman Blue Jays Signature Pharmacy Jason Grimsley Pitcher retired BALCO-related Jose Guillen Outfielder Royals wellness clinic Jerry Hairston Jr. Infielder Rangers Applied Pharmacy Darren Holmes Pitcher retired wellness clinic Gary Matthews Jr. Outfielder Angels Applied Pharmacy Armando Rios Outfielder free agent BALCO John Rocker Pitcher retired Applied Pharmacy Benito Santiago Catcher retired BALCO Scott Schoeneweis Pitcher Mets Signature Pharmacy David Segui First baseman retired BALCO-related Gary Sheffield Designated hitter Tigers BALCO Ismael Valdez Pitcher retired wellness clinic Randy Velarde Second baseman retired BALCO Matt Williams Third baseman retired wellness clinic Rumor has it there are only 60-80 names in the report. If that's true, it hardly even seems worth getting worked up about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 I think 90% of those names are old news. Benito Santiago was named in the original BALCO article, but no one bothered to actually read the damn thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 I think 90% of those names are old news. Benito Santiago was named in the original BALCO article, but no one bothered to actually read the damn thing. They are all old news. These were names confirmed from the US government. According to the article printed on ESPN yesterday, most of the names in the Mitchell Report came from secondary sources, the most prominent being the US government. If those are 24 of the rumored 60 names, this will be disappointing. Then again, I could be way wrong here and the document could exceed all expectations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cartman 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 Well the Associated Press says there will be MVP's and All Stars named tomorrow. Should be interesting. Even more interesting will be if Mitchell actually busts any prominent players currently residing on the Red Sox roster, seeing as he is a Minority Owner of the team and all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RyechnaiaSobaka Report post Posted December 13, 2007 Barry Bonds is on this list? Say it ain't so! The last great sports hero, someone we could all look up to. Now this. I am stunned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 Well the Associated Press says there will be MVP's and All Stars named tomorrow. Should be interesting. Even more interesting will be if Mitchell actually busts any prominent players currently residing on the Red Sox roster, seeing as he is a Minority Owner of the team and all. I can't think of who might show up from the current team, but there are a lot of suspects from '04 team. Damon, Nixon and Millar all seem like decent bets. As for current and former Yankees, Giambi, Sheffield, Clemens and Pettitte will most likely be there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naiwf 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 Well the Associated Press says there will be MVP's and All Stars named tomorrow. Should be interesting. Even more interesting will be if Mitchell actually busts any prominent players currently residing on the Red Sox roster, seeing as he is a Minority Owner of the team and all. It's entirely possible that guys like Giambi & Bonds would be the only MVPs on the list. I just don't think they're going to expose anyone major who we didn't know about already. If someone like Pujols, Papi or Clemens is on the list I'd give them all the kudos imaginable, but I just don't see it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike546 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 Well the Associated Press says there will be MVP's and All Stars named tomorrow. Should be interesting. Even more interesting will be if Mitchell actually busts any prominent players currently residing on the Red Sox roster, seeing as he is a Minority Owner of the team and all. I can't think of who might show up from the current team, but there are a lot of suspects from '04 team. Damon, Nixon and Millar all seem like decent bets. As for current and former Yankees, Giambi, Sheffield, Clemens and Pettitte will most likely be there. I have never understood the Pettite steroid thing. I seriously doubt he's on the list. Just because he started following Clemens routine, does not means he took steroids. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 How did that Mike and the Mad Dog thing work? Were they looking at the paper and gasping or what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve J. Rogers 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 I have never understood the Pettite steroid thing. I seriously doubt he's on the list. Just because he started following Clemens routine, does not means he took steroids. His name was linked in the Jason Grimsley probe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve J. Rogers 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 How did that Mike and the Mad Dog thing work? Were they looking at the paper and gasping or what? Pretty much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 I bet A-Rod will be the big "shocker" name to come out of this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 How did that Mike and the Mad Dog thing work? Were they looking at the paper and gasping or what? Pretty much. According to a couple of other sites, he mouthed the word "Mo" and got a look of shock. Totally possible he said whoa. That would certainly be a shocker, but so would ARod or Jeter. As for Pettitte, he was named in the Grimsley affidavit. His agent shot down the report, but there's some smoke there. Well the Associated Press says there will be MVP's and All Stars named tomorrow. Should be interesting. Like Jose Canseco, Ken Caminiti, Mo Vaughn, Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi, and Sammy Sosa? Even guys like Bagwell, Clemens and Tejada fit the bill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike546 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 Someone TIVO'd it and said that he saw him say "whoa" not, "Mo." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naiwf 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 Did Mike & The Mad Dog mention if any current Mets were on the list? I'm sure a bunch of former Mets will be on it, I'm just curious if I'm gonna end up finding out that Reyes or Wright was juicing which would just about end any semblance of my rooting for that organization. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 It would be really fun to do a Steroids Pool like we do the Death Pool. I sure as hell don't want to keep track of it all though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike546 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 Did Mike & The Mad Dog mention if any current Mets were on the list? I'm sure a bunch of former Mets will be on it, I'm just curious if I'm gonna end up finding out that Reyes or Wright was juicing which would just about end any semblance of my rooting for that organization. Mike said the NY teams are not going to be happy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruiser Chong 0 Report post Posted December 13, 2007 And the Mark Prior era comes to an anti-climatic end in Chicago as the Cubbies opt to non-tender him. Sounds like he wasn't going to give them any kind of a deal for 2009 and the Cubs weren't willing to risk cash on getting half a season out of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest My Pal, the Tortoise Report post Posted December 13, 2007 He'll A) get one more shot with some cheap team like the Reds, Rays, or Nationals, get injured, fail, and hit the card show circuit B) sign with the Cardinals and become an ace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
