Bonds indicted

[Brett Favre 0]

I think all of them should go, but I'm not so sure Bonds makes it anymore.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Let's be honest. Suppose Bonds caught the heat from the current voters and he is kept out. There will be voters who doesn't care about that stuff and keep him a candidate by voting him. Once the heat dies down, I don't see any chance that Bonds doesn't finally get in. He is not only the HR king but he also drew absurdly high amount of walks in his career, and I assume he had a good OBP. There's just too many "positive" statistics to keep Bonds out. If he was a fringe player like McGwire then I can see him being kept out for good, but Bonds is usually considered one of the best in history, and you just don't keep him out because he lied under oath or because he was one of the many to take steroids.

 

But to keep a frame of reference, I also think Pete Rose and Joe Jackson should go in the Hall, so my opinion could be considered as questionable at best.

 

They've already shown that they aren't voting for Mark McGwire, who should have been a lock first ballot guy. I'm not taking a position as to whether or not Bonds should get in, but the chances that the writers let him in now is minimal at best. I guess we'll have to see where the trial goes and how the court of public opinion handles the matter.

 

Oh, by the way, it was announced the other day that MLB topped $6 billion in revenues last year, which puts it ahead of the NFL as the nation's largest grossing sport. That whole steroids thing really damaged the game, didn't it?

[Ripper 0]

How was Mcgwire ever a lock first ballot guy? I think what happens with Rafael Palmeiro would be a better gauge of how it will affect Bonds overall. But I still say there is no chance he won't make it in. It would make the Hall even more laughable(and yes, it is laughable that Pete Rose isn't in it)

 

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Mark McGwire's career numbers include being 1st in at bats per home run, 8th in total HR, 9th in slugging percentage, 11th in career OPS, 12th in adjusted OPS, 21st in batting runs created, 28th in batting wins and 35th in walks. He won a gold glove, Rookie of the Year, made 12 All-Star games and appeared on 10 MVP ballots. McGwire and Bonds were the best hitters of their generation. He's absolutely a first ballot guy.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, if he gets convicted there's probably a good chance he gets banned from baseball, which would lock him out of the Hall of Fame effectively.

 

Personally, yeah, I acknowledge he's a great player, but he's brought all these problems on himself, so I don't care what his legacy is at this point.

[CanadianChris 0]

Well, if he gets convicted there's probably a good chance he gets banned from baseball, which would lock him out of the Hall of Fame effectively.

 

Personally, yeah, I acknowledge he's a great player, but he's brought all these problems on himself, so I don't care what his legacy is at this point.

There's no precedent to ban Bonds from baseball. He'll get his shot at the Hall.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Well, if he gets convicted there's probably a good chance he gets banned from baseball, which would lock him out of the Hall of Fame effectively.

 

Personally, yeah, I acknowledge he's a great player, but he's brought all these problems on himself, so I don't care what his legacy is at this point.

There's no precedent to ban Bonds from baseball. He'll get his shot at the Hall.

 

Exactly. If you banned Bonds for his steroid use, you'd have to ban everyone else who has tested positive. That's a slippery slope.

[Ripper 0]

There is no way they could ban him from baseball because of this. They would effectively be banning him for lying rather or not he took something when it wasn't against the rules.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

There is no way they could ban him from baseball because of this. They would effectively be banning him for lying rather or not he took something when it wasn't against the rules.

 

Taking steroids was always against the rules. They just weren't testing for it.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I will say with all honesty that if Bonds were not to make the Hall, I would never take that Hall of Fame seriously ever again.

[Ripper 0]

There is no way they could ban him from baseball because of this. They would effectively be banning him for lying rather or not he took something when it wasn't against the rules.

 

Taking steroids was always against the rules. They just weren't testing for it.

 

 

They had a list of substances that they couldn't take. The stuff that Bonds allegedly was on was not on said list.

 

It was against the law, but not against the rules.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Law tend to supersede rules.

[Ripper 0]

Yes, but they can't ban him from baseball because he broke the law.

 

If that was the case, there is some people that need kicking out.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The problem is that a large percentage of baseball players, and professional athletes in general, took steroids. It's disingenuous to break down our sport stars of the last fifteen years because we haven't come to grips with the reality of performance enhancing drugs. Bonds really is the fall guy for something that's become a massive part of the sports culture. Attacking individual athletes isn't going to solve anything, and it is only going to make it more difficult to break down the system.

 

If you throw guys in jail for effectively using steroids, how the hell are you going to find out the truth about any of this. Athletes aren't going to tell you the whys and wherefores. They're just going to clam up.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Law tend to supersede rules.

 

So if someone gets busted with the ganja, they should be banned from baseball and the Hall of Fame?

[tominator89 0]

I think we're focusing on the wrong part of the story.

 

The issue is not 100% about Bonds using steroids. If Bonds is convicted, it's for lying to a grand jury.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I think we're focusing on the wrong part of the story.

 

The issue is not 100% about Bonds using steroids. If Bonds is convicted, it's for lying to a grand jury.

 

 

No one has missed that part of the story. We all understand that the indictment is due to the perjury charges. However, what he did lie about was using steroids and there is a mountain of evidence (allegedly) to prove it. So now that there is a proverbial "smoking gun" it's time to assess what this does to his legacy.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Law tend to supersede rules.

 

So if someone gets busted with the ganja, they should be banned from baseball and the Hall of Fame?

 

Considering my position is to let Bonds, Rose and Jackson in, obviously not.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

There's a human element to the Hall of Fame, guys: character is a criterion too (nominally, at least), and if he's found guilty of perjury, it'll be hard to let him in. You don't just type numbers into Microsoft Excel and wait for YES or NO to pop up. How do you invite Barry Bonds to Cooperstown when he can't attend his own induction ceremony due to being in federal prison? That's big.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

There's a human element to the Hall of Fame, guys: character is a criterion too (nominally, at least), and if he's found guilty of perjury, it'll be hard to let him in. You don't just type numbers into Microsoft Excel and wait for YES or NO to pop up. How do you invite Barry Bonds to Cooperstown when he can't attend his own induction ceremony due to being in federal prison? That's big.

How many guys are really sent away to serve long prison sentences for perjury?

[Guest Smues]

There's a human element to the Hall of Fame, guys: character is a criterion too (nominally, at least), and if he's found guilty of perjury, it'll be hard to let him in. You don't just type numbers into Microsoft Excel and wait for YES or NO to pop up. How do you invite Barry Bonds to Cooperstown when he can't attend his own induction ceremony due to being in federal prison? That's big.

 

You mean that isn't how it works? And I was so sure that it worked like this:

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I tried a similar system in Excel, but I just couldn't get the color scheme right.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

For once I agree with Czech. Personally, I don't care if Bonds makes it in or not, but it's been clear that the writers aren't going to vote someone with severe baggage in, generally.

[Ripper 0]

There's a human element to the Hall of Fame, guys: character is a criterion too (nominally, at least), and if he's found guilty of perjury, it'll be hard to let him in. You don't just type numbers into Microsoft Excel and wait for YES or NO to pop up. How do you invite Barry Bonds to Cooperstown when he can't attend his own induction ceremony due to being in federal prison? That's big.

 

 

Racist, drunks, wife beaters, violent people with sociopathic behavior are all in the Hall. Lets not all of a sudden pretend the hall is some place of great men that happened to be good at baseball. It is full of people that were great at baseball. All of a sudden lying is the ultimate sin that should keep him out.

 

Lets be honest. the only reason Bonds is in the spotlight here is that he is Barry "I am an asshole to all writers" Bonds. They would have gone after him hard, no doubt, but they would have went after him like they did McGuire.

 

Instead people act like he raped their dog or something.

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm a little sick of that argument. Racists and nutjobs are in the HOF, but someone's personal life has nothing to do with their baseball ability. As far as guys like Rose and Jackson go, I am torn. Personally I would put Rose in the HOF for his playing days, since I've never heard about him throwing games, taking money, or anything like that. Rose's indiscretions were during his managing days, so if they want to ban him from that I'm fine with it.

 

Joe Jackson is a different story. Regardless of whether he actually threw the 1919 World Series he DID in fact agree to it and took the money. I've often found it quite bizarre that the 1919 White Sox have been looked at as tragic heroes that were being screwed by a cheapskate owner, as if being pissed at upper management excuses what they did. So while Jackson was likely ignorant and being led by the wrong people, he did throw games as a player and as painful as it is, deserves his ban.

 

If Bonds doesn't get in, it will likely be because writers will flat out refuse to ever vote for this man. He can't really be banned since he hasn't broken baseball's rules per se (and even if he failed a test he'd be suspended, not banned).

 

I too got sick of Stephen A. Smith and Rob Parker on First Take today, constantly saying Bonds was being screwed over for being black. Smith kept bringing up McGwire and how baseball turned a blind eye in 1998, but conveniently forgot to include Sammy Sosa, whose name has also been somewhat tied to steroids in recent years. I remember a reporter asked McGwire about the andro that was in his locker and there was in fact a bit of a controversy even then, but it just sorta blew over.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

All of a sudden lying is the ultimate sin that should keep him out.

Lying under oath in a court of law resulting in federal prison time. Should he be found guilty, then yes, it could keep him out. Like I said, computers don't determine who gets in, people do, and if these people decide that a felon convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice isn't worthy of enshrinement despite his on-field achievements, then they have the right to make that decision, and it's the decision I would make, were I entrusted with a vote.

 

I think the whole "people hate him just cuz he's mean to writers!" thing is starting to lose whatever steam it had, which was little. It's more because he wasn't satisfied with being a surefire Hall of Famer, and loaded his body with banned chemicals just to break some records, which is illegal and unethical. Even if he was decent to interviewers, I would object to him for what he did.

 

If he's found not guilty, his case for the Hall is sketchy. If he's found guilty, he'll never get in.

[Ripper 0]

How is the writers hate him thing losing steam. Its completely true. He was a asshole to fans, writers, and teammates for all these years. He is a asshole. No one likes him. If he was a nice guy was accused of the same shit, you wouldn't see this fire and outrage. You would see disappointment.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Bonds is pretty much only admired in San Francisco, and that's about it. I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that. Really, the Hall should be about achievements and not "likeability", otherwise people like Ty Cobb wouldn't be in, either.

[BruiserKC 0]

It's a shame...Bonds was the best player of this generation without the use of roids. It's obvious he couldn't handle all the pub that McGwire and Sosa were getting, so he bulked up.

 

However, the difference between him and Rose is this...baseball looked the other way during this time as the home runs were what brought baseball back from the brink of irrevelance after the 1994 strike. With Rose there was no such ambiguity...gambling on baseball is the number one no-no in the rule book. It's plastered up on every locker room, etc. Selig didn't want to do anything as he knew that without this he would have been remembered primarily as the commissioner that got the World Series cancelled. Eventually, baseball would have been relegated to being as important in the US as hockey or the WNBA. This is going to get a lot uglier now and I see Selig's reputation being permanently tarnished. In no way am I sympathizing with Bonds...payback is a bitch for him and she's clearly on her period right now...but baseball could have done something about this.

 

Ironically...baseball honors another cheater in Cooperstown...one Gaylord Perry. He won 300 games while admitting to throwing spitballs and doctoring up the ball in a bazillion different ways. Last time I checked...the spitball has been illegal since 1920.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

Gaylord Perry didn't lie under oath to a grand jury, and that's now the crux of the biscuit when it comes to saying Bonds won't get in the Hall. Can we please stop invoking Gaylord Perry in Barry Bonds discussions? If you can't discern between an emery board and illegal steroids, you're retarded.