NFL week twelve: Turkey Day Cliches

[Kinetic 0]

While I understand the point that the Titans D has been garbage with Haynesworth out, he's missed too much time and he allegedly got punked out by Pacman Jones. That does not an MVP make. Plus, he's a defensive player. They don't win MVPs or Heismans.

[snuffbox 0]

Favre is the most valuable player; Brady will win the award for his stats.

 

Maybe Brett Favre will find himself on the fortunate end of "co-winners" of the MVP trophy again.

[Slayer 0]

It comes down to a competitive balance issue and the fact that no one wants to see 3-0 games because the team is too cheap to maintain their facility and ends up with a crappy field like that.

 

Not true! I glanced at the screen at work last night and thought, "Fuck, wish I recorded this."

 

At least once every season or every other season, I enjoy watching a low scoring game in a total fuckin' mudhole where players are kicking and biting and pounding each other up the middle 90% of the time.

 

It's a weird example, but in threads before I've proclaimed my love of the Seattle/Kansas City game from a season I can never remember, where the game was delayed at points because of the friggin' LIGHTNING. Just a torrential nonstop downpour from whistle to whistle.

 

I remember that. That shit was awesome. Wasn't it in 98?

Yes it was. I'll always remember as the same group of rainstorms flooded part of our neighborhood (though luckily excluding our house)

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

So Tom Brady deserves the MVP because of who his wide recievers were in the past? What? This year, Brett Favre is the most valuable player to his or any team. Take him off the Packers, and they're sure as hell not doing what they're doing. If he's not the key to the Packers' success, who is? A.J. Hawk? Come on. As Brett Favre goes, so go the Packers, and this year, he's going pretty damn well.

 

Years past was just a reference showing valuable Brady has been. It's certainly more relevant to look at things that have happened than the hypothetical "where would they be without him". The main knock on his MVP hopes this year is the team around him, when he was doing pretty damn well without them before. He's the best player in the league right now, so by that definition he's the most valuable.

 

I love how before people always used to talk about how great Brady was, it was due to everything but the stats. Now he's going to win because of them.

 

Co-winners is bullshit. I love Favre, but Barry Sanders deserved the MVP that year, in every sense, whether stats or value to his specific team.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

Hopefully this pans out in the end, but right now, you're nuts if you think anyone but Tom Brady should be the MVP of the league. He's on pace for SIXTY fucking TD passes this year. 60! He's completing almost 3/4 of his passes. That's absolutely insane.

[Guest Vitamin X]

MVP is the player who is playing the best, whatever that means. If you wanna do it with who is the most valuable to their team, then we should take away some of Favre's previous MVP's, as I highly doubt the best defense in the league combined with what was the best offense would have taken too much of a hit had Favre not been there. The Lions would have been 1-15 if Barry didn't break the record that year probably.

 

I don't see how you can say Favre is more valuable even to his own team, when this team won super bowls with Troy Brown and Deion Branch as the primary targets. Sure, they're a powerhouse now, but Brady has done the most with the least for years now, and I don't think we should necessarily take away his value just because he has some toys to work with. He has carried this offense time and time again with nothing, and this team has essentially been a super bowl contender every year since he's been the starter, except maybe in 2002. Brady is what makes this team go, and he's proven it with less. Brett Favre needed the best to win his one super bowl, and hasn't really come close since the Broncos loss. Tom Brady has consistently put up great numbers with nobodies, Favre hasn't. I understand you're talking about this season, but I'm using the past as a reference point to show how valuable Brady really is, and how Favre hasn't really been all that valuable this past decade. The team has done great this year, but I wouldn't point to him as being the focal point.

I was taking your post seriously until the ridiculously asinine comment you made that I bolded there. To discount a 10 year span in a HOF career is pretty stupid, and it's hard to believe that'd be coming from someone whose opinion I normally respect. Favre has had exactly one losing season in his 16 seasons as a starter, with the most wins and touchdowns by any quarterback, ever. You think Brady, and Brady alone was the reason that the Pats won those Super Bowls? Come the fuck on. The strength of those Patriots is entirely different than this year's team; they mostly relied on the strength of their defense, both passing and running. Sure Brady only had Troy Brown and Deion Branch, but let's not pretend these guys are scrubs or anything- Brown was/is the consummate team player, even playing cornerback (and pretty well to boot) when needed, and Branch was the deep threat that has now been replaced (and upgraded) by Moss. Favre's been extremely valuable, turning a bunch of no-name receivers into threats; Sterling Sharpe isn't a great example, but Favre has made a great receiver out of many a player that he's thrown to. Since you're referencing the past decade, here's who: Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman, Billy Schroeder, Corey Bradford, Donald Driver, and Javon Walker all became 1,000 yard receivers and now this year Greg Jennings and James Jones are also poised to reach that mark. This has been through 3 coaching changes, and only 3 real threats at running back (Levens, Green, and now Grant if he keeps up the good work). It's ridiculous to compare that to Brady's 6 year run where has had an excellent defense, a consistent if not spectacular receiving corps, and one of the best head coaches of all time.

 

Every year the whole "Who's the best QB of all-time/this season?" comes up, and someone, I think it was Agent, said that Brady really was the Joe Montana of this decade, and moreso because Joe was always talked about as that his greatness was due to his system, and not necessarily because of his play. Has he quieted those critics? I'd bet somewhat. And while having Driver, Jennings, Jones, and Ruvell Martin is nice to throw to, it's probably not as nice as having that excellent veteran o-line which gives Brady all day to throw, plus having Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Jabar Gaffney, and Donte Stallworth. All proven, veteran receivers with exceptional hands and speed. Driver is the only proven one of Favre's bunch, although all the receivers are doing their best this year to prove themselves and have a ton of potential.

 

Favre has only has the best defense in the league with the best offense once, in `96. Consider that at the time the NFC was also ridiculously hard to break through, with the Cowboys and Niners always threatening not to mention that the NFC Central was a hell of a tough division as well with Dungy's Bucs, and the high powered Vikings. The Packers succeeded for only a brief period of time because Holmgren left and most of the team's veterans on both sides of the ball took off; you didn't see people taking pay cuts to stay with them like you do with the Patriots because New England has an excellent front office and things got completely fucked in Wisconsin after Ron Wolf retired.

 

I love how before people always used to talk about how great Brady was, it was due to everything but the stats. Now he's going to win because of them.

And both things are true. For YEARS now, even when everyone was on the "Peyton is better!" bandwagon for years, I have always maintained, and still do today, that Brady is the best quarterback in the NFL, and he has been since 2003, maybe 2002. But can the Patriots survive without him? Arguably, they wouldn't be as good, but they have all the pieces in place for any solid QB to come in and put up numbers and probably still lead the team to victory.

 

[KingPK 0]

But can the Patriots survive without [brady]? Arguably, they wouldn't be as good, but they have all the pieces in place for any solid QB to come in and put up numbers and probably still lead the team to victory.

 

But would they still be Super Bowl contenders, or would they be just another team in "The Blob" (as Czech calls it)? The voting will be close due to the media fixation with both guys (but I forget, do the writers vote for MVP or it is another body?), but if Brady breaks the TD, QB rating, and pass comp % records in the same year for an undefeated or 15-win team, how the hell can he NOT be worthy of the vote?

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Decade as in the 2000's, rather than actual ten years. His QB rating last year was worse than Grossman. He's burned his team many times in the past with his INT habits (I'm thinking of the playoff loss to the Vikes in Lambeau right now, but there's many other instances). I was harsh with that line, of course he's valuable, but I wouldn't say MVP-worthy. That was the context I was speaking in. That's a different argument though.

 

Obviously Brady had a great team around him, there's no denying that. Great players won't win it by themselves. Before this year the Pats have never had a good receiving corps. Not even great, it wasn't good. Troy Brown is a team player, but he's not very skilled. Deion Branch is a decent deep threat, but look at what happened to those guys when they left. Tom Brady was luckier than Favre in that the coaching staff/front office is remarkable where he's playing. But he's the lynchpin. Everyone is expendable on the Patriots, as we learned with the Milloy situation way back when. Everyone BUT Brady. He is the face of that team, and the one guy who Bill will not get rid of. I think this is obvious. He carries tremendous value with that organization, both on the field and off. He is the best player in the league right now, so he has the most value.

 

Favre would probably finish in my top five, maybe even top three for the voting, and is a feel-good story. Playing in Dallas this Thursday isn't good for them though, for obvious reasons.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

Every year the whole "Who's the best QB of all-time/this season?" comes up, and someone, I think it was Agent, said that Brady really was the Joe Montana of this decade, and moreso because Joe was always talked about as that his greatness was due to his system, and not necessarily because of his play.

 

Actually, I put forth that Brady is better than Montana.

[alfdogg 0]

The Pats could still win their cupcake division without Brady. I don't know that you could say the same for the Packers.

 

That said, especially if the Pats do go undefeated, I'd probably still have to give it to Brady. Nothing against Favre, but the Pats are at least the strongest team of my recent memory.

[Guest Vitamin X]

The only team that I can think of that was anywhere near this good in the last 10 years of watching football are the 98 Vikings (snicker) and the '04 Pats. The '01 Rams, before their imminent demise at the hands of the monster they created, were a pretty damn good team in their own right as well.

 

But yeah, I don't see anyone else but Brady getting the award anyways, so discussion of it is pointless. I'm just trying to point out any other people who could be considered for it. Tony Romo for instance, would've been another great candidate in a Brady-less world, since he's proven to be the difference between Dallas being on the cusp of a playoff squad, to a one-loss team.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

Listening to the game on the radio..Dallas is off to a good start.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

Is NOBODY watching/listening to this game? It's 27-10 Dallas, and Favre has thrown 2 INTs, for anyone who isn't caring enough to check NFL.com every few minutes.

[MFer 0]

This is the Week 12 thread you're posting in you know...

[foleyfanforever88 0]

Right...ya..I knew that...

 

 

 

*feels like an idiot*