WWE General Discussion - December 2007

[Jingus 0]

I really hope somebody drives a bus into your house.

Man, it's been so long, it's almost refreshing to see a good WISHING DEATH~! on the boards again.

 

 

There are three types of women in the business, ones who can wrestle, ones who look good and the newest addition, ones Vince feels bad about what he ended up doing to their husbands and so he gives them a job.

I love the first type. I can see the second type fucking naked in porn, so I have no desire to watch them badly pretending to fight while wearing clothes in a ring. And there's no excuse for the third type being put in on-air performer slots which they have no training or experience for, when there's any number of perfectly good desk jobs Vince could've given them.

 

I really don't understand why the generic fanbase can't see "She doesn't look any worse than she did when she was signed, and she was signed for her looks, so she's still on the roster", or "Khali is there because he's tall and menacing and they don't care that he can't work because you can teach workrate faster than you can teach tall

Because I watch a wrestling television show to see good wrestlers have good wrestling matches. All the other stuff is simply the crap I have to wait through in order to watch the wrestling. If I want to watch bikini models, E! is just a few channels down. If I want to watch giant freaks, Ripley's Believe It Or Not is on sometime. If someone can't wrestle, then there is no use for them on a wrestling show.

 

And don't say "it's not wrestling, it's sports entertainment". Yeah. I know. That's the problem.

[Mike wanna be 0]

And don't say "it's not wrestling, it's sports entertainment". Yeah. I know. That's the problem.

Yeah, wouldn't want to make a convincing argument or anything. You agree that it's a sports entertainment program and complain that there are people on the roster for the sole purpose of being sports entertainers? That's your problem, not the problem.

 

I like hockey fights as much as the next guy, but I don't go on hockey forums and whine about how Crosby and Ovechkin are getting big-money contracts while Domi has to go into retirement because nobody wants an enforcer. I don't complain about how Sakic keeps scoring goals instead of slinging fists. Fights and enforcers are a small part of hockey like wrestling and wrestlers are small parts of sports entertainment.

[Epic Reine 0]

Who the hell is THIS guy?

 

http://www.wwe.com/superstars/smackdown/drewmcintyre/

[Enigma 0]

I do believe the banner says "Drew McIntyre".

[Angle-plex 0]

I really hope somebody drives a bus into your house.

Man, it's been so long, it's almost refreshing to see a good WISHING DEATH~! on the boards again.

 

Who can forget GHAST~!?

[Jingus 0]

Yeah, wouldn't want to make a convincing argument or anything. You agree that it's a sports entertainment program and complain that there are people on the roster for the sole purpose of being sports entertainers? That's your problem, not the problem.

 

I like hockey fights as much as the next guy, but I don't go on hockey forums and whine about how Crosby and Ovechkin are getting big-money contracts while Domi has to go into retirement because nobody wants an enforcer. I don't complain about how Sakic keeps scoring goals instead of slinging fists. Fights and enforcers are a small part of hockey like wrestling and wrestlers are small parts of sports entertainment.

Wrestling, in any form, has historically been at its worst whenever it tries to emulate other forms of entertainment. Most wrestlers are pretty bad actors, and despite what Vince Russo thinks, you can't just train actors to be good wrestlers. The entire appeal of wrestling is that it's different from other TV shows. If you see a guy get slammed onto the mat, you really just saw a guy get slammed onto the mat. Everything you see, really happened. (Except of course bullshit like a midget spraypainting a doorway onto a brick wall and then "running through it", which was so lame I was surprised that even on here there way anyone who liked it.) Why give up wrestling's unique what-ya-see-is-what-ya-get advantage in order to just try to be like all the other shows on TV, the vast majority of which don't draw ratings as well as two guys fighting in a ring?

 

Sportz Entertainment storylines popped the business for a few years, but ratings hit a plateau by 2000 and slowly trailed downward to its current levels. Seriously, why go away from what made wrestling a success for decades? In-ring action is their established bread and butter. Imagine if other TV shows decided to just change what brought them to the dance. What if the makers of Lost said "we're doing great, but we really gotta shake things up, let's change the setting away from that damn island". Or if the guys behind The Shield were like "y'know, what we really need to do is cut down on all the brutal violence and make Vic Mackey into a nice guy". Of course they wouldn't castrate their own product like that. Why does the WWE keep trying to do it?

 

Back on the original inspiration for this argument: Torrie Wilson. What's the point of having her on the roster? She's a hot chick. So what? Every show on television has a hot chick. If you want to watch hot chicks, every channel on the dial has something to compete with. So what does Torrie bring to the table other than being a hot chick? Absolutely nothing. She's not a good actress. She's not even a competent wrestler. Who watches a wrestling show just because they've got some chick whose job is to stand there and be hot? I argue that she has never drawn a single dime in her entire career. So why is she still here? It's especially maddening when you consider the untold dozens upon dozens of female wrestlers on the indies who are also hot chicks, and gee whiz, they can wrestle too! Even the idiots at TNA somehow figured out that one, and stocked an entire women's division full of capable workers who all have different looks. Meanwhile, the WWE has nothing but a whole shitload of Tough Enough and Divasearch chicks who can't act, all kinda look alike, and can barely stumble through a horrible match without breaking their fucking necks. What's the appeal?

[Downhome 0]

Watching this ECW "Best Of" show, five of the people involved in the last match don't even work there anymore. I loved seeing the Sabu head first bumb through the table at the hands of Burke once again though.

[Mike wanna be 0]

I'd almost forgotten how good an Extreme Rules match should be. They really need more of them, because I loved that eight-man. (They did a really nice job keeping Burke completely off-camera from the final "Burke's still upside down!" mention to the Express, so it was really a "Holy shit, where'd he come from?" moment.)

 

Re: Torrie, she didn't seem to mind when they released her husband and she's willing to do Playboy. It's company loyalty, same as Bob Holly or the Brooklyn Brawler.

[Downhome 0]

Awesome, they showed that great spot from the 3-way again.

[The Truthiness 0]

I know it was cheesy, but I got good laugh out of TAZ kicking Joey in the Christmas tree, then saying "Should've buckled up your chin strap'.

[Mike wanna be 0]

I was expecting Taz to kick him in the nuts field-goal style, but considering that "...the tree stand got me right in the Mahoneys", I guess the end result is the same.

 

Look on the bright side, Joe, at least the present wasn't ticking like last year's.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Kayfabe or not, I too was getting really tired of JBL's "The lights are on bright!" cliche. Good call, Joey.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Kayfabe or not, I too was getting really tired of JBL's "The lights are on bright!" cliche. Good call, Joey.

 

I love his "You play with fire, you get burned" cliche though.

[pochorenella 0]

Kayfabe or not, I too was getting really tired of JBL's "The lights are on bright!" cliche. Good call, Joey.

 

I love his "You play with fire, you get burned" cliche though.

How about his "I/he smells like smoke bacause I've/He's been through fire" one?

[pochorenella 0]

dp

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I haven't actually watched enough SmackDown this year to be real familiar with all his cliches, but EVERYTIME I watch it or a PPV, he says "the lights are on bright, Michael!".

[J.T. 0]

Back on the original inspiration for this argument: Torrie Wilson. What's the point of having her on the roster? She's a hot chick. So what? Every show on television has a hot chick. If you want to watch hot chicks, every channel on the dial has something to compete with. So what does Torrie bring to the table other than being a hot chick? Absolutely nothing. She's not a good actress. She's not even a competent wrestler. Who watches a wrestling show just because they've got some chick whose job is to stand there and be hot? I argue that she has never drawn a single dime in her entire career. So why is she still here? It's especially maddening when you consider the untold dozens upon dozens of female wrestlers on the indies who are also hot chicks, and gee whiz, they can wrestle too! Even the idiots at TNA somehow figured out that one, and stocked an entire women's division full of capable workers who all have different looks. Meanwhile, the WWE has nothing but a whole shitload of Tough Enough and Divasearch chicks who can't act, all kinda look alike, and can barely stumble through a horrible match without breaking their fucking necks. What's the appeal?

 

 

Are you serious?

 

You think Torrie Wilson, who has been in Playboy twice, has never drawn dime? How about when WWE got all that money from her showing her goods to the world? Or all the Diva crap merch she's apart of?

 

Come on. Think before you post. That's a pretty ridiculous statement to make. Money wise, Torrie has been good to WWE.

[Hawk 34 0]

Everyone who has posed for Playboy under the WWE banner has sold copies. You take any of the divas over the past 10 years since WWE started the semi-annual Playboy shoot and put them on the cover and it'll do good business.

 

 

[J.T. 0]

Yeah, I agree. So every girl who is willing to get naked for Playboy is a money asset to WWE, including Torrie. That still shows that Jingus' statement of Torrie never drawing a dime as ridiculous.

[Mecca 0]

PWInsider is reporting that Steve Madison is now gone from WWE's Florida Championship Wrestling developmental territory. Madison had been working under Steve Keirn.

 

It is also being reported by PWInsider that Lacey Adkisson/Von Erich, the daughter of Kerry Von Erich, was also dropped as a WWE developmental talent. Lacey was described as very beautiful, but many felt she didn't grasp what the business was all about and wasn't around much last month for her scheduled training in FCW. Lacey has a "MySpace" account at this link and is usually pretty vocal about her WWE status, so it's possible she could comment about it soon.

 

DetNews.com has an article up at this link regarding WrestleMania 23 generating an estimated $30 million to Detroit earlier this year. It was noted today by The Wrestling Observer that in reality there is no real way of knowing if that figure is correct or not.

 

No Von Erich I guess...

[Jingus 0]

I don't count Playboy sales. It has nothing to do with wrestling, it's just selling magazines. You act like Vince McMahon gets all that money instead of Hugh Hefner. And, as Hawk pointed out, the fact that it was Torrie in the magazine had no effect on sales, as every WWE-themed issue has done great regardless of who the actual person in the photos was. Shit, even Chyna's issues made bank, so clearly when the headline says "WWE Diva Torrie Wilson", it's the first two words that sells the magazine, not the last two.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Fights and enforcers are a small part of hockey like wrestling and wrestlers are small parts of sports entertainment.

 

Um...what?

 

You can remove fights from hockey and still have hockey games.

 

If you took the wrestling out of Sports Entertainment, what the HELL would they air? Seriously, what would RAW consist of if there were no wrestling matches? The fact that you think like that makes me a little sad.

 

I agree with Jingus on this point: The WWE needs to realize that, as the only large wrestling company in North America, they've got the market cornered on pro wrestling; so why do they keep trying to do other things? Like, seriously, who here watches a wrestling program to *not* see the matches? I'm not saying that the extra stuff is all pointless, but why not try to present the best possible *wrestling* product, instead of trying to present the best action/drama/comedy show on TV? There's a thousand people trying to do that, and NO ONE trying to present wrestling on the same level as WWE.

 

[J.T. 0]

I don't count Playboy sales. It has nothing to do with wrestling, it's just selling magazines. You act like Vince McMahon gets all that money instead of Hugh Hefner. And, as Hawk pointed out, the fact that it was Torrie in the magazine had no effect on sales, as every WWE-themed issue has done great regardless of who the actual person in the photos was. Shit, even Chyna's issues made bank, so clearly when the headline says "WWE Diva Torrie Wilson", it's the first two words that sells the magazine, not the last two.

 

The only reason why you don't count Playboy sells is because it goes against your whole argument.

 

And yes, it does have to do with wrestling because she's in WWE and doing the magazine for, well, WWE.

 

I didn't say Vince gets all the money anywhere in my post. He does get quite a bit of money, or else he wouldn't still do the Diva posing naked thing every year. Afterall, it generates interest for Wrestlemania since it's just glorified promotion for it....

 

And I agree, it doesn't necessarily who is posing naked (although I'm willing to bet money that Torrie got more sales than Candace), but whoever is posing naked is generating money to WWE! The reason why Torrie is still employed is that she's hot, she's willing to get naked, and the fans like her. I don't care if you don't like the fact that that type of Diva is employed by WWE, but the fact is that it gets Vince money and that yes, Torrie has drawn money for WWE. Whether it's because she's Torrie Wilson, or simply just a hot WWE Diva willing to get naked, the fact is, she has generated money for Vince.

[tominator89 0]

Sorry, guys, but Torrie Wilson doesn't warrant this much discussion.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

Interesting that Von Erich is fired after the WCCW DVD is made and released. WWE has done this before with hiring past wrestlers when a DVD is being made only to fire them when the DVD is finished.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

On the "sports entertainment" front, why does the Super Bowl have halftime entertainment? Why does minor league baseball feature between innings entertainment. Yes, the wrestling is most important. But more and more entertainment ventures branch out nowadays. I could see the mindset where fan A watches with non-fan B. The non-fan is not a fan of wrestling but enjoys something else on the show. He/she continues to watch. Eventually, they become fans of the product itself.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

That I could see, but it seems like the WWE caters to fan B at the expense of catering to fan A sometimes, so fan A doesn't watch as much, which in turn, means b isn't going to watch at all.

[Mecca 0]

Source: Wrestling Observer

 

"The Boogeyman hasn't been seen on WWE TV since November when he was involved in the one night only return of DX.

 

To put it bluntly, WWE don't know what to do with him. WWE writers Ed Koskey and Brian Gerwirtz are Boogey's main supporters as they like to write comedy segments for him. Working against this though is ECW head writer Dusty Rhodes, who wants to limit skits and promos on ECW with more solid in ring action.

 

The general feeling is that his act grows stale quickly, so they will use him on a non regular basis, possibly moving him to Smackdown for the younger children."

[Jingus 0]

And I agree, it doesn't necessarily who is posing naked (although I'm willing to bet money that Torrie got more sales than Candace), but whoever is posing naked is generating money to WWE! The reason why Torrie is still employed is that she's hot, she's willing to get naked, and the fans like her. I don't care if you don't like the fact that that type of Diva is employed by WWE, but the fact is that it gets Vince money and that yes, Torrie has drawn money for WWE. Whether it's because she's Torrie Wilson, or simply just a hot WWE Diva willing to get naked, the fact is, she has generated money for Vince.

That's the problem: she's simply a woman who's willing to get naked. Nothing else. They could've stuck any bikini model in the exact same spot and it would've had the same effect. Hell, that's the exact thing they're doing now hiring all the no-talent, know-nothing Divasearch chicks. If someone like Trish or Lita had done Playboy, I bet they would've sold a shit-ton more copies than Torrie did. Torrie has never brought anything to the table except a warm body and the willingness to show it. She never drew a single dime because of any sort of talent, skills, or even rapport with the audience. Thousands of girls could've done the exact same thing.

[Scroby 0]

Source: Wrestling Observer

 

"The Boogeyman hasn't been seen on WWE TV since November when he was involved in the one night only return of DX.

 

To put it bluntly, WWE don't know what to do with him. WWE writers Ed Koskey and Brian Gerwirtz are Boogey's main supporters as they like to write comedy segments for him. Working against this though is ECW head writer Dusty Rhodes, who wants to limit skits and promos on ECW with more solid in ring action.

 

The general feeling is that his act grows stale quickly, so they will use him on a non regular basis, possibly moving him to Smackdown for the younger children."

thank you Dusty, and I think moving Boogeyman to Raw would be great for him since Raw has been more on the entertainment value side as of lates.