AWA Wrestling back on the air

[DangerousDamon 0]

If you missed last night, you need to see the Rocky Mountain Thunder squash, he almost killed a jobber and then had to alter the finish.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kTGOiJCi0w

 

 

Hahah, he ended up giving the guy what looked to be a Widow's Peak.

[Matt Young 0]

Baron Von Raschke singing "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" = awesomeness.

[Mike wanna be 0]

Baron Von Raschke singing "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" = awesomeness.

He did it again tonight!

 

They showed about 2 minutes of Lawler v. Hennig for the AWA title. Lawler wins with a slingshot into the turnbuckle...my, have times changed.

 

Highlight of the night: Greg Gagne "catches fire" with a dropkick and a hiptoss...just enough to trigger Lee Marshall to start a "LOOK AT THE RAPID FIRE ACTION YOU CAN ONLY SEE IN THE AWA" schtick. At the precise moment he starts the schtick, the camera swaps to ringside to show a calm-faced, almost bored Gagne weakly holding an armbar on Paul Diamond. Reminded me of all those stories about Owen Hart no-selling submission holds by pretending to smoke a cigarette, yawning, or feigning a nap on house shows just to crack up whoever his tag partner was (usually Bulldog is cited).

[cabbageboy 0]

Did any show ever have Lawler/Hennig shown in its entirety? Even as a kid all I remember seeing on the Memphis TV show was the finish, which is pretty famous.

 

In all honesty they had to put the belt on Lawler since Memphis was probably a better promotion than the AWA itself by 1988. Lawler as champ was probably the last gasp of decent stuff from the AWA....once he was stripped of the belt following the SuperClash III fiasco, the AWA went 100% to hell.

[Hasbeen2 0]

It was done way before then, the ESPN show just put it on a national stage for everyone to see it go downhill.

[cabbageboy 0]

Oh I know the AWA was already in decline post Road Warriors roughly. Thing is, the last chance they had to at least be semi decent was the various alliances with Memphis and World Class. Once that blew up in Gagne's face, it was over for the AWA.

[GreenBudsGreenTea 0]

If the AWA held thier roster even post Road Warriors they could have made it....I would have loved to see micheals get the AWA title run

 

Bruiser Brody -vs HBK for the AWA title or a long Henning -vs- HBK fued

 

[cabbageboy 0]

Bear this in mind though. Shawn Michaels was a mere tag wrestler circa 1986-88 in the AWA, he didn't strike anyone at that point as being ready to main event as a singles wrestler. Hell he didn't really have any semblance of main event cred until 1995 or so in the WWF, much less in the 80s. The notion of him vs. Brody in the 80s is laughable, Brody would have destroyed him.

[King Kamala 0]

Absolutely no semblence till '95? I'm sorry cabbageboy but I flat out disagree with you here. I thought when he came back in late '93- that he was destined for places higher than the IC title scene. But you're right- there was no way you could tell he was going to be what he would turn out to be back in the AWA days.

 

Anyways back to the subject at hand- these past few shows have had a whole lot of washed up Barron Von Raschke and a whole lot of Ricky Rice. No wonder why they went out of business a couple of years later.

 

And is anybody else morbidly curious to see the Team Challenge Series? The stuff they're airing now is just boring bad, I'm hoping with The Team Challenge Series, we'll get some amusingly bad stuff.

[Hasbeen2 0]

I do think Hennig was ready earlier than when he got the belt but that might have sped up his arrival in the WWF too. In the last years of the AWA Vince was taking everybody from Gagne, the Nasty Boys, Baron Von Rasche, Sgt Slaughter, Enos and Bloom and I think even the late DJ Peterson. Probably anybody who was really over with the fans would be gone, even if it had been Michaels with a singles belt.

 

I would have liked to seen the Minneapolis and Memphis deal work out too but Gagne from all accounts couldn't afford it. Chicago was not a good area for SuperClash with Lawler and Kerry, it would have been huge in Memphis.

 

A lot of it was Gagne or whoever else was making the decisions at the time. Look at this card from February 1988:

Greg Gagne beat AWA Champion Curt Hennig, AWA belt held up

AWA Tag Team Champions Midnight Rockers beat Kevin Kelly & Mr. Go

Dick The Bruiser beat Sheik Adnan dq (Hard Boiled Haggerty Referee)

Wahoo McDaniel & Baron Von Raschke beat Nasty Boys

Billy Robinson drew Tom Zenk

Ray Stevens beat Soldat Ustinov

Ricky Rice beat JT Thomas

 

I'm not the type who cries about losing a match equalling get buried (CM Punk fans) but some of those decisions were horrible. Greg, nice guy then and now, but never should have beat challenging for the world belt. The Nasty Boys never should have been losing to Wahoo and Baron, Zenk should be pinning Billy Robinson and Ray Stevens should have not been wrestling at the time. It's easy to say it now, but give Zenk a run for the title and maybe even win it depending on the crowd reactions, turn Kelly face as your version of Hogan, that's just two on this card. Most of all keep anyone off TV that gets continuous boring chants. Brad Rheingans, legitimate talent but you could almost imagine the people going to sleep during his matches except when they were chanting boring.

 

Of course had they done the right thing and gave Hogan the belt even the product we watch today might be totally different.

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

That was a special card. Robinson and Brusier were in cause they were closing the arena down in Minn.

[Hasbeen2 0]

Stevens and Baron were beating young talent as a team and as singles around the same time on house shows. You can make the young talent look good, take a pinfall, and still show the old guys have some gas in the tank. There was no excuses for those two to be winning when they should have been focusing on new stars.

[cabbageboy 0]

To back up to HBK for a second, what main event cred did he have before 1995? Maybe he would have had it in 1994 but they pushed Nash before him. If anything for most of that year he was Diesel's manager and maybe tag partner. He certainly wasn't a world title threat, and if anything had been jobbed out in the IC division.

 

Hasbeen, I agree 100% about SuperClash III. They had a Lawler/Von Erich main event and wanted to draw big money in CHICAGO??? That's an area where neither man often wrestled and had no substantial following. Of course Dallas had largely been killed as a territory by that point as well, but there was a chance it would draw at least. Memphis was really the only promotion of the 3 that hadn't been killed off, sadly enough. If they had done the PPV at the Mid South Coliseum at least they probably could have sold out the venue.

[GreenBudsGreenTea 0]

You can push almost anyone with the right program

 

HBK would have gotten over as a HUGE heel if he turned on Jannetty in 1988.

 

I would have booked Henning to hold the World Title

 

Fight off Lawler...Stan Hansen...Bruiser Brody..Kerry Von Erich...Scott Hall....

 

Then Gave the HBK -vs- Henning program a go

[Hasbeen2 0]

That was a special card. Robinson and Brusier were in cause they were closing the arena down in Minn.

 

Yeah I noticed that but they didn't even let Bruiser get the pin on Sheik.

[Hasbeen2 0]

To back up to HBK for a second, what main event cred did he have before 1995? Maybe he would have had it in 1994 but they pushed Nash before him. If anything for most of that year he was Diesel's manager and maybe tag partner. He certainly wasn't a world title threat, and if anything had been jobbed out in the IC division.

 

Hasbeen, I agree 100% about SuperClash III. They had a Lawler/Von Erich main event and wanted to draw big money in CHICAGO??? That's an area where neither man often wrestled and had no substantial following. Of course Dallas had largely been killed as a territory by that point as well, but there was a chance it would draw at least. Memphis was really the only promotion of the 3 that hadn't been killed off, sadly enough. If they had done the PPV at the Mid South Coliseum at least they probably could have sold out the venue.

 

 

A previous Super Clash was held in Chicago and was a success but that one was an NWA/AWA effort that included Flair. Looking back, the talent was better than the crowd would make it seem but the site selection was awful.

[Hasbeen2 0]

You can push almost anyone with the right program

 

HBK would have gotten over as a HUGE heel if he turned on Jannetty in 1988.

 

I would have booked Henning to hold the World Title

 

Fight off Lawler...Stan Hansen...Bruiser Brody..Kerry Von Erich...Scott Hall....

 

Then Gave the HBK -vs- Henning program a go

 

 

He wasn't HBK at the time, he was typical 80s pretty boy tag specialist. They rarely made new stars, just about everybody was already estiablished or wasn't over. I thought about it and looking at the AWA's point of view, it might have been hard to put anybody over other than their old guard since they could be on a plane to New York at any time. I'm surprised ESPN didn't put a little money into it, even if they looked down on the show it was one of their own and brought in dollars.

 

Hansen was basically a Japanese wrestler working the States every now and then. Brody was undepedable but even when they had him he was misused-a stadium show in Minneapolis had Brody and the Barbarian against Snuka and....Greg Gage, in a cage. Three wildmen and Greg, which name didn't belong. I've read Scott Hall couldn't wait to get out of the AWA due to the cold, dollars should help that but they might have been in short supply. Kerry was available after Hennig left for the WWF if I remember things right.

 

Summing it up, after some bad decisions and most importantly Hogan (who might have left eventually anyway, even with a run with the belt) they just didn't have many options. They had the Road Warriors but couldn't keep them even with some big crowds.

 

1985 Superclash in Chicago, 21,000 at Comiskey Park. At the end they couldn't draw 21,000 in a month.

 

AWA Americas Champ Sgt. Slaughter beat Boris Zuhkov (9:34) via DQ.

 

IWA Champ Mil Mascaras pinned Buddy Roberts (6:57).

 

Jumbo Tsuruta, Giant Baba, & Genichiro Tenryu beat Harley Race, Bill & Scott Irwin (10:57) when Baba pinned Bill.

 

Sherri Martel pinned Candi Divine (11:24) to win the AWA Women's Title.

 

World Class Texas Champ Kerry Von Erich pinned Jimmy Garvin (6:47).

 

AWA Tag Champs Road Warriors beat Freebirds (Gordy & Hayes) (14:12) via DQ.

 

NWA Midget Champ Little Tokyo pinned Little Mr. T (6:54).

 

Jerry Blackwell beat Kamala (9:50) in a "bodyslam" match.

 

AWA Junior Heavyweight Champ Steve Regal pinned Brad Rheingans (8:19).

 

Greg Gagne, Scott Hall, & Curt Hennig beat Ray Stevens, Nick Bockwinkel, & Larry Zbyszko (12:20) when Hall pinned Stevens.

 

NWA World Six Man Tag Champs Krusher Khruschev, Ivan & Nikita Koloff wrestled Crusher, Dick the Bruiser, Baron Von Raschke (9:40) when Ivan pinned Raschke.

 

NWA World Champ Ric Flair pinned Magnum TA (19:10).

 

AWA World Champ Rick Martel DCO Stan Hansen (2:30).

 

Going back to another gripe, Stevens and Baron took the pins on this show but three or four years later couldn't? For those that might not know, that was a different Steve Regal.

 

SuperClash III in Chicago, 1988, crowd of 1600

Hector, Chavo, & Mando Guerrero beat Cactus Jack & Rock-n-Roll RPMs (6:35) when Chavo pinned Lane.

 

Eric Embry pinned Jeff Jarrett (4:13).

 

Jimmy Valiant pinned Wayne Bloom (0:24).

 

WCCW Texas Champ Iceman King Parsons pinned Brickhouse Brown (5:41).

 

Ricky Rice, Derrick Dukes, & Wendi Richter beat Paul Diamond, Pat Tanaka, & Madusa Micelli beat (5:43) when Richter pinned Micelli.

 

Greg Gagne beat Ronnie Garvin (5:52) via countout to win the AWA TV Title (yes, by countout, over an NWA champ from a year before)

 

The Syrian Terrorist won a "street fight lingerie battle royal" (8:36). Also in the match were: Bambi, Peggy Lee Leather, Laurie Lynn, Brandi Mae, Malibu, Nina, Pocohantas, and Luna Vachon.

 

Sgt Slaughter beat Col DeBeers in a "boot camp" match.

 

WCCW Tag Champs The Samoan Swat Team beat Michael Hayes & Steve Cox (7:53) when Samu pinned Hayes.

 

Wahoo McDaniel beat Manny Fernandez (7:48) in an "Indian strap" match.

 

AWA World Champ Jerry Lawler beat Kerry Von Erich (18:53) to win the WCCW Title when the referee stopped the match due to Von Erich's excessive bleeding.

 

The Rock-n-Roll Express DCO Jimmy Golden & Robert Fuller (5:52).

[cabbageboy 0]

See, the thing is though with that original SuperClash show it was a combined NWA/AWA show and guys like Flair and Magnum had national exposure on TBS. Shows like World Class and Memphis weren't all over the country on national TV and to be honest WCCW in 1988 was hardly the juggernaut of 1982-85.

[GreenBudsGreenTea 0]

 

 

 

He wasn't HBK at the time, he was typical 80s pretty boy tag specialist. They rarely made new stars, just about everybody was already estiablished or wasn't over

 

 

True but even now looking at the reruns you can see HBK and Jannetty did things in the ring that other guys didnt or couldnt do. I know hindsight is 20-20 but they really should have done something with him.

 

And the AWAs problem in a nutshell was that they didnt give guys a title run unless you were a Gagne...married to a Gagne or Nick Bockwinkel. (curt Henning was 2nd generation AWA)

 

Hansen and Lawler were last ditch efforts.

 

On a side note though I have a fun idea if you guys want to play along....

 

How would you book the Heavyweight title picture for 87-88 ?

 

I would have used Henning as champ for a long title run first Heel then face till he beat pretty much everyone and built up HBK on a Heel turn on Marty till Curt and HBK was the hot ticket

 

You Guys ?

[Hasbeen2 0]

For one, I would have continued Henning as a face with him beating a heel Bockwinkel for the belt. The crowd the night he won the belt cheered even with Zybsko's obvious interference. When they knew Hall would be leaving, earlier, have him turn on Henning with Curt coming out the winner, that would have led into a run for the belt. While that feud was going on let Bockwinkel-with Zybsko's help-fight off Wahoo, Snuka, Slaughter, Blackwell.

 

They felt they had to put the belt on Bockwinkel after the Hansen nonsense but even after doing that they could have turned him full heel again. I want to say he'd turned face after Zybsko turned on him just before he was awarded the belt.

 

When Henning went to the WWF then maybe that would have been time for a face Michaels to get it. Janetty could have turned heel to build up Michales as a face. Interesting to think how that may have changed a ton of things.

 

Lawler should have never got the belt until they were sure the cross promotion would work out.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I'm thinking if there were rumblings of a Shawn Michaels AWA Title run, they probably would have ended up giving it to Ricky Morton instead.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think the Rockers were already on the way out by the time they did the Lawler title change but maybe I'm wrong. But again Hasbeen the thing about Michaels is that there was no one back then who thought of him as any sort of serious singles wrestler. This was 1988, not 1992. In 88 Michaels getting a main event push would have seemed really bizarre, like "Why is one of the Midnight Rockers getting title shots?" I guess it beats Greg Gagne getting title shots though, haha.

 

Keep this in mind as well. There was no reason for Gagne to think the Lawler/Memphis cross promoting wouldn't work. It had worked very well in the past with Bockwinkel defending the AWA title in Memphis several times with good results. Memphis was basically the southern outpost of the AWA, though occasionally Memphis did have NWA stars drop by (Race and Flair defended against Lawler on occasion). But I think the AWA was a better fit with Memphis since there was a contrast with the northern AWA stars venturing down south, whereas the NWA and Memphis were already sorta competing for the same southern demographic.

 

Watching these shows I wonder what would have happened if Jerry Jarrett had bought out Gagne instead of buying World Class. It wouldn't have been such a jarring transition, simply shift things more to the Memphis area, build around Lawler as champ, visit the northern states a bit but pull back if they simply couldn't draw there, keep the ESPN deal, and so on. I don't know why Jarrett bought out WCCW when they would have simply gone under later in 1989 most likely anyway, then Jarrett could simply use the Texas guys on his own shows.

 

In the end SuperClash III did the following: It flat out wrecked the AWA as a serious promotion, basically put the nail in the coffin of WCCW, and while Memphis came out of it okay at first the WCCW buyout didn't really work all that well and weakened Jarrett in the long run to where the USWA ended up as a redneck AAA league for the WWF.

[Phineas4 0]

Anyone else see Mike Tenay with a beer in hand cheering from the front row while they introduced Houdini in the Saito/Choshu match? Kinda odd to me at least.

[Hasbeen2 0]

I think the Rockers were already on the way out by the time they did the Lawler title change but maybe I'm wrong. But again Hasbeen the thing about Michaels is that there was no one back then who thought of him as any sort of serious singles wrestler. This was 1988, not 1992. In 88 Michaels getting a main event push would have seemed really bizarre, like "Why is one of the Midnight Rockers getting title shots?" I guess it beats Greg Gagne getting title shots though, haha.

 

Keep this in mind as well. There was no reason for Gagne to think the Lawler/Memphis cross promoting wouldn't work. It had worked very well in the past with Bockwinkel defending the AWA title in Memphis several times with good results. Memphis was basically the southern outpost of the AWA, though occasionally Memphis did have NWA stars drop by (Race and Flair defended against Lawler on occasion). But I think the AWA was a better fit with Memphis since there was a contrast with the northern AWA stars venturing down south, whereas the NWA and Memphis were already sorta competing for the same southern demographic.

 

Watching these shows I wonder what would have happened if Jerry Jarrett had bought out Gagne instead of buying World Class. It wouldn't have been such a jarring transition, simply shift things more to the Memphis area, build around Lawler as champ, visit the northern states a bit but pull back if they simply couldn't draw there, keep the ESPN deal, and so on. I don't know why Jarrett bought out WCCW when they would have simply gone under later in 1989 most likely anyway, then Jarrett could simply use the Texas guys on his own shows.

 

In the end SuperClash III did the following: It flat out wrecked the AWA as a serious promotion, basically put the nail in the coffin of WCCW, and while Memphis came out of it okay at first the WCCW buyout didn't really work all that well and weakened Jarrett in the long run to where the USWA ended up as a redneck AAA league for the WWF.

 

 

I agree Michaels wasn't ready for a world singles belt yet but if he had been given it, like someone suggested, going over a heel Henning before Henning left for the WWF might have been an idea.

 

Here a few more ideas and as was also said, hindsight is certainly 20/20 when it came to this promotion.

 

Be a little cartoony from time to time, considering the timeslot. If I remember right it was 4 Eastern in the afternoon, anywhere from 3 to 5 times a week. Perfect afterschool viewing.

 

Turn Slaughter heel, back to the drill sergeant he was before feuding with the Iron Sheik in the WWF. A face, champ Henning could have gone over him instead of facing Bockwinkel and Gagne as a heel. Snuka as a wildman heel managed by Sheik is another idea. Also dye Patera's hair blonde again and grow the beard, turn him heel like he was until late in his WWF run. He had absolutely no charisma as a face but was still muscular enough and looked brutal enough to be a convicing heel.

 

This might have been too much for the times but turn Greg heel, he's tired of being compared to Verne, etc. Either that or push him down to a midcard face or find him another permanent tag partner to replace Brunzell.

 

Push Zenk harder after he came on board. He probably would have been as well known as any on the roster, opened Wrestlemania III.

 

No specifics, but it seems more could have been done with a young Rick Steiner pre-Bill Watts, Scott Hall, Leon White pre-Vader, Yokazuna, The Trooper pre-Patriot, others.

 

Try to work out something with Eddie Sharkey who operated in Minnesota and trained a ton of talent including the Road Warriors and Rick Rude. I don't know the feelings he and Gagne had for each other but the may have not been on the best of terms working out of the same base.

 

All that being said, as I said before, any wrestler really getting over might have just left quicker, probably to New York.

 

Yeah, I would have loved to have seen Memphis regularly on ESPN.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Honestly, the way AWA was going their booking was the least of their problems. It went far deeper than that.

[cabbageboy 0]

The show I just watched on DVR was pretty good. More Lawler/Hennig stuff, though why they didn't just let Lawler squash that jobber and then do the angle with Hennig I don't know. The Guerreros vs. Bad Company was a really good match as well.

 

That said, I do agree to some extent about the booking but it's more of the actual philosophy than talent. The AWA had the stodgiest, dullest booking known to man. Gagne was afraid to push newer stars, but aside from that the shows have no immediacy to the booking whatsoever. What is the driving force to these shows? What are they building to? Where is the hard sell for a PPV, a major card, or at least a buildup to a major title match? I guess they did some of that with SuperClash III, but when else?

 

Comparing it to Lawler's own Memphis promotion is pretty funny, because the AWA barely mentioned the match with Hennig in Memphis beforehand while if you watched Memphis that was all they talked about. It was this "OMG, Lawler gets his big shot at the title! Jackie Fargo is the ref! Either Lawler wins or he retires forever!" Gagne had the Midnight Rockers and RNR Express both in the AWA for a while, yet never capitalized on this dream match scenario. I took a look at some old Memphis results and saw that the two teams did in fact wrestle a few times at the Mid South Coliseum, with a title hold up one week, then the Rockers won to retain.

 

See what I mean? Gagne for whatever reason on ESPN never did the hard sell for anything, rarely plugged live dates, rarely set up major matches for the future, it was just "Here's so and so squashing Dennis Stamp, here's another okay match, here's a TV main event." You could watch and reasonably enjoy it, but there was nothing you HAD to see. Also, the 4:00pm timeslot was bad for me in grade school since I wouldn't get home until nearly 5:00 (ironically I did watch Global a lot in the same slot when I was in middle school, but school was out at 2:20).

 

If the AWA didn't hard sell much, Memphis did nothing but hard sell. Everything on their TV show was done to get people to go to the Mid South Coliseum that week, or in my area the Louisville Gardens. It was a forerunner for Russo Crash TV in some ways, with crazy stipulations left and right, gimmick matches, heel turns, title changes out the wazoo (but mostly guys feuding with Lawler, then he regained...nothing that killed a title).

[Hasbeen2 0]

I took a look at some old Memphis results and saw that the two teams did in fact wrestle a few times at the Mid South Coliseum, with a title hold up one week, then the Rockers won to retain.

 

I'm wanting to say the Rockers were the heels for those matches and it wasn't faces vs faces. It wouldn't have been a stretch for them to have Michaels as a heel single if that had ever been covered on the ESPN show. I don't remember how long the Rockers were with the AWA after that.

 

True there were other problems but more excitement, better booking could have led to better crowds, more money, maybe even some help from ESPN and some of the problems could have been corrected.

[nl5xsk1 0]

SuperClash III in Chicago, 1988, crowd of 1600

Greg Gagne beat Ronnie Garvin (5:52) via countout to win the AWA TV Title (yes, by countout, over an NWA champ from a year before)

 

I'm using a memory from like 20 years ago, and one that was born from an Apter-mag, but hadn't Garvin already signed with the WWF at that point?

 

I remember reading how unusual it was for Vince to allow a contracted wrestler to appear in another federation; is there any chance that Garvin was allowed a match to relinquish the title but wasn't allowed to be pinned or submitted?

[cabbageboy 0]

I think the AWA TV title was held up or something, so maybe Vince let Garvin do that one last show to blow off the feud before he debuted in Jan. 1989?

 

I am very hazy on whether the Rockers were heels in Memphis in early 1988. I recall the first time I saw them back then and they wrestled a squash match and I was blown away, but they seemed to just wrestle as faces. I think they wrestled Lawler and Dundee some too and cut heel promos to set up those matches. Either way it's really bizarre to watch the AWA and both the Rockers and RNRs are on the show and both teams are faces doing the same gimmick, haha.

[JHawk 0]

SuperClash III in Chicago, 1988, crowd of 1600

Greg Gagne beat Ronnie Garvin (5:52) via countout to win the AWA TV Title (yes, by countout, over an NWA champ from a year before)

 

I'm using a memory from like 20 years ago, and one that was born from an Apter-mag, but hadn't Garvin already signed with the WWF at that point?

 

I remember reading how unusual it was for Vince to allow a contracted wrestler to appear in another federation; is there any chance that Garvin was allowed a match to relinquish the title but wasn't allowed to be pinned or submitted?

Garvin had actually made his WWF TV debut on Prime Time the night before (taped 12/6/1988). His appearance for Verne was simply fulfilling a prior obligation.