Ric Flair and the Figure Four

[zappafrank 0]

You always hear announcers talk about how Flair won so many of this 16 World Titles with the Figure Four, but has he even used it to win more than a handful, if that? When I think of Flair winning, it's usually via some kind of rollup, often using the tights or the ropes. I haven't seen footage of all of his title wins, but for the life of me I can't remember a single time he used the Figure Four to win (except maybe one of the times he won it in 2000).

[yankovic fan 0]

When he won it back from Randy Savage in 1992 (not too long after Savage/Warrior Summerslam match) on Prime time, after interference from Razor Ramon, he locked Savage into the Figure Four and Savage passed out without submitting.

 

Not sure if you meant in the WWF/E or if passing out in the F4 counts, but that was the first one to pop in my head.

[Diamonddust 0]

The biggest I can think of off the top of my head is against Terry Funk in the I Quit match. Funk sold it as if Flair was ripping his legs apart.

[4hartthreat 0]

He won the wcw title from Hogan in '99 with the figure four. It was supposed to be a first blood match, but after they both started bleeding like 5 minutes into the match, they changed the rules on-the-fly.

 

I'm fairly sure he also beat Barry Windham with it in '93 to win one of his titles.

[CanadianChris 0]

Yeah, Windham had his shoulders counted down while in the figure four to give Flair his last NWA World title at Beach Blast 93.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Finding footage of the '80s title changes is near impossible. I think because after popular title changes (Kerry Von Erich, Dusty Rhodes), promoters would flip the title back to Flair at obscure shows and venues. I'm reasonably sure Flair won title #5 from Dusty Rhodes in 1986 with the figure four, again with Dusty passing out similar to Randy Savage.

[Guest Smues]

It was supposed to be a first blood match, but after they both started bleeding like 5 minutes into the match, they changed the rules on-the-fly.

 

WCW may be long dead but the legacy lives forever!

[Darth Pipes 0]

Flair won a few of his world titles with the figure four but never by submission. Basically, Dusty Rhodes (4th reign) and Randy Savage (9th reign) passed out due to the pain. Flair rarely won any matches via submission in the 80s. You might get a heel to submit from time to time but a face never submitted. Flair never had a secondary finisher so he would win his matches by a roll-up, small package, outside interference, or with his feet on the ropes.

 

Even heels usually didn't submit. I remember when Sting won the title from Flair in 1990 being surprised he didn't win by submission. He dominated the match and his finally winning the title after two years should have ended with him forcing Flair to submit. But he won with a small package instead, which was silly considering he dominated that match with Flair.

 

Flair actually has gotten more wins by submission since entering the WWE then he did for years at a time in the NWA.

 

Flair title changes...I read that the last minutes of his first title victory against Rhodes aired on at least one of the territory television shows. His third title victory against Von Erich I remember seeing the last seconds of that on the old Pro Wrestling Illustrated video tape and it's definitely around. I don't know if his 4th title victory against Rhodes was ever recorded. Flair regained the title from Sting on a house show in January 1991 and I remember them airing clips of it on WCW TV and seeing pictures of a bloody Flair with the belt.

 

I think I saw footage of the phantom title "loss" against Jack Veneno on youtube.

[Diamonddust 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he win the WrestleWar '89 match against Steamboat with the figure-four? Seems like I remember Steamboat missing a key move, hurting his leg, and Flair going in for the kill at that point.

 

Edit - nevermind, he won with a pinfall in that one.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Flair never had a secondary finisher so he would win his matches by a roll-up, small package, outside interference, or with his feet on the ropes.

 

Very true.

 

Edit: My bad.

[4hartthreat 0]

Flair never had a secondary finisher so he would win his matches by a roll-up, small package, outside interference, or with his feet on the ropes.

 

Very true. IIRC Flair won his world titles from Garvin and Jarrett using the top rope crossbody splash!

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure he beat Jarrett with a small package. I remember it because I thought it was the best executed small package I had ever seen, because it was REALLY fast.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Flair pinned Garvin with a simple cover after hotshotting him into the cage, and pinned Jarrett with a small package. I remember the win over Jarrett for two reasons. First, there's a fan in the front row who is only half watching the match, even facing away from the ring for most of the match, and when Flair wins he gets this look of total shock on his face. Second, the announcers don't put it over that strongly at first. Why? Because nobody told them Flair was winning, and they thought it was a mistake.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Flair beat Race for the title at Starrcade 1983 with the flying body press

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Flair beat Race for the title at Starrcade 1983 with the flying body press

 

Yes. People forget that Flair used to successfully hit moves off the top rope on a semi-regular basis.

[zappafrank 0]

OK, so just from memory or what's in this thread:

 

- He beat Race with a flying body press in '83

 

- He beat Dusty in '86 with the figure four (Dusty passed out)

 

- He beat Garvin in '87 with a cover after Garvin ricocheted from the cage

 

- He beat Steamboat in '89 with a pin cover

 

- He won the '92 Rumble by tossing Sid out

 

- He beat Savage in '92 with the figure four (Savage passed out)

 

- He beat Windham in '93 when Windham was counted down while in the figure four

 

- He beat Vader in '93 with a schoolboy

 

- He beat Hogan in '99 with the figure four in a 1st blood match

 

- He beat Jarrett in 2000 with a small package

 

- Nash handed the belt back to him a few weeks later in 2000

 

 

This leaves : '81 (Dusty), '84 (Kerry), '91 (Sting), '94 (Sting, unification), '95 (Savage), '96 (Savage...was this Superbrawl VI, in the cage?)

 

I'm pretty sure the '94, '95, and '96 matches were some kind of pinfall. Plus there's the title swtich with Race that occurred overseas in '83, plus the Superbrawl I match ('91) where he won the NWA title back while still WCW champ.

 

I dunno. Winning around 1/5th of your titles with the figure four doesn't seem like the massive amount WWE pimps it out to be.

[Perfection 0]

Flair won a few of his world titles with the figure four but never by submission. Basically, Dusty Rhodes (4th reign) and Randy Savage (9th reign) passed out due to the pain. Flair rarely won any matches via submission in the 80s. You might get a heel to submit from time to time but a face never submitted. Flair never had a secondary finisher so he would win his matches by a roll-up, small package, outside interference, or with his feet on the ropes.

 

Even heels usually didn't submit. I remember when Sting won the title from Flair in 1990 being surprised he didn't win by submission. He dominated the match and his finally winning the title after two years should have ended with him forcing Flair to submit. But he won with a small package instead, which was silly considering he dominated that match with Flair.

 

Flair actually has gotten more wins by submission since entering the WWE then he did for years at a time in the NWA.

 

Flair title changes...I read that the last minutes of his first title victory against Rhodes aired on at least one of the territory television shows. His third title victory against Von Erich I remember seeing the last seconds of that on the old Pro Wrestling Illustrated video tape and it's definitely around. I don't know if his 4th title victory against Rhodes was ever recorded. Flair regained the title from Sting on a house show in January 1991 and I remember them airing clips of it on WCW TV and seeing pictures of a bloody Flair with the belt.

 

I think I saw footage of the phantom title "loss" against Jack Veneno on youtube.

 

I have looked a long time for footage of flairs first title win against rhodes but never have found it. Judging by what you said, the footage must be pretty obscure. I would love to see it though and its frustrating that footage of such a historical moment is so hard to find.

[Darth Pipes 0]

Flair wrote about the match and the ending in his book. Dusty Rhodes lifted him up in a suplex but his knee gave out (Flair had worked it over during the match) and Flair landed on top of him for the cover. Flair admitted it was a terrible match and a terrible finish. Dusty didn't want to give up the title but business was business. So the match took place in St. Louis, Missouri with Lou Thesz as the referee. Neither Dusty nor Flair were big in the territory so it was fine for Dusty to drop the title there.

 

As for existing footage, I've read that the last few minutes of the match supposedly aired on one of the territory television shows and I think I remember someone writing a review of it from an old wrestling tape on one of the wrestling websites. I saw a picture of Flair with his parents (they were in attendence but he couldn't tell them about the title switch before hand) being given the belt in the locker room after the match.

 

Now, I have seen the end of the Flair/Von Erich match. It was a 2/3 Falls Match and it ended when Von Erich rolled up Flair and Flair reversed it (without grabbing the tights) for the pin. This end was shown on the Pro Wrestling Illustrated Lords of the Ring video tape in the eighties. I've heard on the Kayfabe Memories board that JCP refused to recognize that Von Erich had won the title. When Dusty won the title at Starrcade 85 only to have the decision reversed, David Crockett pathetically tried to claim that it was the first time Flair had been beaten. Who the hell is going to buy that shit even then?

[Guest korndogg123]

OK, so just from memory or what's in this thread:

 

- He beat Race with a flying body press in '83

 

- He beat Dusty in '86 with the figure four (Dusty passed out)

 

- He beat Garvin in '87 with a cover after Garvin ricocheted from the cage

 

- He beat Steamboat in '89 with a pin cover

 

- He won the '92 Rumble by tossing Sid out

 

- He beat Savage in '92 with the figure four (Savage passed out)

 

- He beat Windham in '93 when Windham was counted down while in the figure four

 

- He beat Vader in '93 with a schoolboy

 

- He beat Hogan in '99 with the figure four in a 1st blood match

 

- He beat Jarrett in 2000 with a small package

 

- Nash handed the belt back to him a few weeks later in 2000

 

 

This leaves : '81 (Dusty), '84 (Kerry), '91 (Sting), '94 (Sting, unification), '95 (Savage), '96 (Savage...was this Superbrawl VI, in the cage?)

 

I'm pretty sure the '94, '95, and '96 matches were some kind of pinfall. Plus there's the title swtich with Race that occurred overseas in '83, plus the Superbrawl I match ('91) where he won the NWA title back while still WCW champ.

 

I dunno. Winning around 1/5th of your titles with the figure four doesn't seem like the massive amount WWE pimps it out to be.

'94 - won with a schoolboy and pulled the tights

'95 - Arn Anderson smashed Savage with a steel chair

'96 - Liz pops Savage with the spiked heel on her shoe (or she hands it to Flair and he does it)

[Boner Kawanger 0]

It was supposed to be a first blood match, but after they both started bleeding like 5 minutes into the match, they changed the rules on-the-fly.

 

WCW may be long dead but the legacy lives forever!

 

Why are people still confused about this? Everyone knew going into the match that they were gonna go for a double-turn, since Hogan, as leader of the new nWo, was a heel and Flair, as the new non-crooked President of WCW, was a face. Its simple booking: Charles Robinson was the referee, and this was the beginning of the angle where he was Flair's personal referee. I think he became Lil' Naitch shortly thereafter. Anyways, I believe Flair got busted open first but Robinson wouldn't call for the bell, leading the announcers to speculate that the ref hadn't deemed the cut deep enough to be worth ringing the bell. Then when Hogan started bleeding...he wouldn't call for the bell...for no reason...leading the announcers to speculate...um...carry the one...well they didn't really speculate anything and then Flair got a three count.

 

See? Simple.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Yes Zappa, Superbrawl 6 was the cage match.

 

'95 - Arn Anderson smashed Savage with a steel chair

 

I thought Savage got hit with brass knuckles?

[Guest korndogg123]

Maybe it was brass knuckles. I saw the match on YouTube a couple months ago, but the user's account was suspended, so I couldn't check for sure. All I remember exactly is Arn Anderson interfered and comments about how he should have tagged Savage for real because of Savage brutally cutting Flair too deep with the blade.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

- He beat Dusty in '81 with a pin cover after Dusty's knee buckled during a suplex attempt

 

- He beat Race with a flying body press in '83

 

- He beat Von Erich in '84 after reversing a roll-up with his own.

 

- He beat Dusty in '86 with the Figure Four (Dusty passed out)

 

- He beat Garvin in '87 with a pin cover after Garvin ricocheted from the cage

 

- He beat Steamboat in '89 with an inside cradle

 

- He beat Sting in '91 with a pin cover, using the rope for leverage

 

- He won the '92 Rumble by tossing Sid out

 

- He beat Savage in '92 with the Figure Four (Savage passed out)

 

- He beat Vader in '93 with a schoolboy

 

- He beat Sting in '94 with a schoolboy, pulling the tights

 

- He beat Savage in '95 with a pin cover after Arn Anderson hit Savage with brass knuckles.

 

- He beat Savage in '96 with a pin cover after hitting Savage with a shoe given to him by Miss Elizabeth, who turned on Savage.

 

- He beat Hogan in '99 with the Figure Four in a First Blood Steel Cage match (Hogan was knocked out due to Flair using brass knuckles prior)

 

- He beat Jarrett in 2000 with a small package

 

- Nash handed the belt back to him a few weeks later in 2000

 

That about sums it up.