Wrestlemania IX

[Lil' Bitch 0]

And where do you get this 90s version of Andre/Hogan thing? On what planet is that the case?

 

Bret as Lovable champion vs. Yokozuna as undefeated unstoppable big guy

 

What wonders would it have done for Bret's career? I would say Bret had a pretty wonderful WWF career regardless, Montreal aside.

 

Hogan became a solidified star because he defeated Andre and ended "his streak". I think Hart could've gotten a similar treatment had he been able to do the same thing since Hart was going into the match as the underdog as well.

 

Seriously. It wasn't as if he just faded away after that. He won the King of the Ring, was part of two fantastic feuds, and won the WWF Title within a year of losing to Yokozuna.

 

True, but I always hated the finish of WM X that Hart won only because Yokozuna fucked up trying to do his finisher. I mean it was smart for Bret to do it, but I don't know, it was just so...anti-climatic. I'm glad he got it back and it was really cool the other wrestlers came out to celebrate his win, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

And where do you get this 90s version of Andre/Hogan thing? On what planet is that the case?

 

Bret as Lovable champion vs. Yokozuna as undefeated unstoppable big guy

 

Different situations entirely. Andre had been the biggest draw in the US for the better part of 10 years and Hogan was an entertainment icon. Their clash was an early fed dream match. This is not even comparable to Bret/Yoko in any sense.

 

Bret/Yoko was a match-up of a babyface who'd just been bumped up from the mid-card against the company's new hot heel. Yoko actually needed to go over in that match. Other than the size disparity, there's not many parallels.

 

What wonders would it have done for Bret's career? I would say Bret had a pretty wonderful WWF career regardless, Montreal aside.

 

Hogan became a solidified star because he defeated Andre and ended "his streak". I think Hart could've gotten a similar treatment had he been able to do the same thing since Hart was going into the match as the underdog as well.

 

That match didn't solidify anything for Hogan. That's silly revisionist history. Hogan had already been the biggest star in the US for more than three years. Putting him against Andre was a last ditch effort to draw a big house on Andre's name before he retired for good.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Bret/Yoko was a match-up of a babyface who'd just been bumped up from the mid-card against the company's new hot heel. Yoko actually needed to go over in that match.

 

Supposing Hogan wasn't there, you still rather have seen Yokozuna leaving Wrestlemania IX the WWF Champion than Hart retaining?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Yes. It would establish a stronger heel having Yoko beat Bret decisively. People weren't really into Bret's first run. Beating Yokozuna wouldn't really change that.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Bret/Yoko was a match-up of a babyface who'd just been bumped up from the mid-card against the company's new hot heel. Yoko actually needed to go over in that match.

 

Supposing Hogan wasn't there, you still rather have seen Yokozuna leaving Wrestlemania IX the WWF Champion than Hart retaining?

 

 

Other than the fact that I think Mania should end with the babyface going over, yes I do agree with that. The way the match was booked, Yoko needed to go over. Bret really wasn't the super babyface champion yet and Yoko needed a big win to solidify himself as the company's top heel.

 

Bret got to over a year later when it was his time.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

It wasn't until the KOTR that Bret won (after losing that title to Yokozuna) that people bought him as a semi-credible main event threat, by virtue of beating everyone in singles matches round by round in the tournament, and it wasn't until the Royal Rumble that people finally fully bought Bret as a main event threat, seeing him outlast most of the people in that match and being supposedly "screwed over" by that split decision (didn't Luger's feet hit first?). You can't do those things if Bret had retained. You'd just have an unover champion screwing around without a strong foe (because Yokozuna wouldn't be bought as credible losing to Bret in the IX main event).

[Hawk 34 0]

MVP, comparing Bret/Yoko to Andre/Hogan was a really poor move. Cheech explained why that was but for modern comparison, imagine if WWE put Shelton Benjamin against Khali last year for the WM main event. That's exactly what Bret-Yoko was in comparison to Andre and Hogan which was monumential as any wrestling match could be. While the crowd should always go home happy, Yoko winning the title and walking away would have done more good for all people involved. I'm against the top title not being in the main event but if Vince was so worried about a heel closing the show at the time, they could have flipped the title change and the Hogan tag match since they already set a precedent for not placing the title match in its rightful place.

[cabbageboy 0]

I mentioned it earlier but there was no point putting Yokozuna against Bret in the first place. The match was a huge style clash, so why not give Macho the Rumble win, he has a dynamite match with Bret that solidifies him as champion, etc. Frankly, the entire booking of Bret's first run was bizarre and didn't serve to get him over. He won it from Flair in a match no one saw, had no sustained feuds but mostly just took on all comers, etc. Frankly I had no real memory of his title run from Survivor Series 92 until losing to Yoko.

 

I would have put the belt back on Savage at the Survivor Series if Flair was unable to go a full schedule due to his ear problems. Or maybe at a taping before it, who knows. Have Macho fend off Razor at the Rumble, then Bret can win the Rumble and thus you get a true build to his title win rather than throwing it on him cold. Let's face it, Bret was coming off losing the IC to Bulldog in England, so circa 1992 it seemed quite odd that this guy was suddenly the world champ. I liked it, but it was still weird.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The weirdest thing about Bret getting the world title is that in the fall of 1992 he was, at best, the fourth most over face on the roster behind Savage, Warrior and Hennig. He was also fresh off a loss to British Bulldog in his biggest match. It was nice that they tried something new, but Bret was something of an off the wall choice when he beat Flair.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Hennig was a heel manager when Bret won the title, but your point still stands. I know I was taken off guard when I heard about it on Superstars.

[Darth Pipes 0]

I remember being surprised when Bret won the title. He was a guy I saw as an IC wrestler. But I was happy when he did. He had a brief feud with Razor Ramon I think but he didn't have a sustained feud, you're right. His thing was taking on all comers and he was a champion you got to see wrestle on television on a fairly regular basis. I was a fan of his first run as champion. By reign two, he was totally legit to everyone.

 

Hart/Savage at WM9 would have been good. Savage could have done a quasi-heel run in the weeks leading up.

[cabbageboy 0]

I suppose the signs were all there in 1992 for a bigger Bret push. He went over Piper clean at WM. Actually mained SS vs. Bulldog, albeit in England. It was just the bizarre, out of nowhere lack of build to it. I think if he first won the belt at WM, then Yoko or someone screwed him at SS it could have worked better.

 

For what it's worth though I did immediately accept Bret as champion. Certainly a pleasant surprise at the time.

[Guest ToughestManAlive]

I suppose the signs were all there in 1992 for a bigger Bret push. He went over Piper clean at WM. Actually mained SS vs. Bulldog, albeit in England. It was just the bizarre, out of nowhere lack of build to it. I think if he first won the belt at WM, then Yoko or someone screwed him at SS it could have worked better.

 

For what it's worth though I did immediately accept Bret as champion. Certainly a pleasant surprise at the time.

 

Yes, I immediatly accepted Bret as champion too. I just remember talking to an old wrestling buddy after this happened and asking him if he was still watching. I mentioned Bret having the title and just saying that he deserved it. It was probably the most pleasant, shocking surprise the WWF ever gave us back in the day. People who watched back than would have a better understanding of how shocking and surprising this was.

I forget the complete reasoning behind it but I remember it did make sense on why they decided to give Bret the title than and there. Part of the reason was because Bret didn't have the massive appearance of some of their other wrestlers. It wasn't a move that was planned out way ahead of time. I did love the spontaniety of it.

[Promoter 0]

Guys, I remember in 1992 the newspapers in Toronto stated Bret threatened Vince about going to wcw after headlining SummerSlam and yes he did main event the show. Warrior and Savage took a backseat. The show was already taped by the time it aired in North America. Warrior was shaky with management which is why he didn't get the title at Slam and it led to him walking out at Survivor Series. I don't know what was up with Savage though. I agree Savage/Bret should have been a no brainer at WM. They did Bret/Yoko too soon. IMO, the booking just sucked in that time frame. If Vince had Bret as his chosen star why not build him properly. The signs were there.

 

He was IC champ beating Mr. Perfect who at the time was promoted as one of the greatest IC Champs and he did have a better 2nd reign. Bret went over him at SummerSlam and just listen to the MSG crowd after his win and during it chanting "Let's Go Bret". You know what they say about MSG being the test market for future trends and so on. The only reason he lost the title in the first place was because of illness and the wwf wanting the ic title on the RR show in 1992. He PINNED Piper who was UNDEFEATED for the I-C title. Bret even said Savage was the guy he had to knock the door down on as terms of smaller guys leading the way with the title in WM 12 promos. Savage went over Flair at WM 8. Savage/Bret should have been the title match. Bret should have gone over Flair in the finals of the RR. That way you have Bret going over those two legendary guys and given credibility. Anyone see the Savage/Hart SNME match? Classic. If they did anything like that it would have been one of the greatest title matches in history, but imo Savage wasn't the same. Now, if Hogan only actually agreed to facing Bret at SummerSlam and passing the torch who knows how things may have turned out for his drawing power.

[Darth Pipes 0]

Well, a big reason Hart got in then-and-there was because Flair was suffering from an inner ear injury and needed some time off. Flair said the match was terrible and it never aired on TV. Hart doesn't seem to be happy with it either. It's funny...I recently saw the match for the first time. Flair was a little slower than usual and maybe the match wasn't a five-star classic but it was still a damn good match. It turned into a Colesium Home Video exclusive.

 

Flair also mentioned that his title victor over Randy Savage never aired but it did air on Prime Time Wrestling a few weeks later. Flair talks about these matches in his book and the one with Savage is an unusal one.