OAO 5/12 Raw Thread

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Having Cena around, with barely any HHH, made an otherwise so-so Raw much better.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Cena was good tonight, mainly because they kept him down to one poop-joke and he came off like a regular good guy who it's not shameful to get behind, rather than a good guy stetching to get laughs and forced reactions and bombing. Lesson- just let him be himself.

 

No surprise to see uproar over Orton's theme music. Lesson 2- wrestling fans do not like change. It's been a month or so and thankfully (almost) everybody's over the 'OMG KENNEDY'S MUSIC SUCKS~!', 'OMG JEFF'S MUSIC ARE THEY TRYING TO STOP PEOPLE CHEERING FOR HIM~?!' hysterics. Orton's theme isn't great, but it fits his character better to have a slower song. His slow walk to the ring with evil eyes looked better with the new music than the old. Unless you were having an hysterical fit, I guess.

[Perfection 0]

Haven't watched RAW yet, but it's good to hear Cena did another job (even if it was screw-job type of job). I think Cena taking the fall every so often makes the whole "overcoming the odds" scenario more believable.

 

Yeah it's one of the reasons he is so disliked among older fans. But I tell you, I often wonder if they intentionally try to make Cena look stupid with his awful lines and interview segments. They are so corny and so bad that they have to be aware of the reaction they will get. I suppose they care more about him getting a reaction period than him being cheered as a babyface but the longer it goes on the more I think it hurts him. But the thing is, since the wwe's change of direction toward kids and the style of the writers, there is no one who gives interviews that are so much better either so he can get away with it. If he had given those style of interviews back during the attitude era he would be a jobber to the stars.

 

I hate to say it, but Cena was the only one who entertained me at all tonight. Everyone else = boring.

 

Pretty sad testament of the product when cena is considered the most entertaining part of raw with him confronting regal consisted of reading mark emails from wwe.com, poop jokes, and the lame, corny, and tired "you are in the US" routine.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

Cena's been the best thing in wrestling for two years now(though Orton may have passed him recently). I don't think thats a sad testament. He's also been a completely serious character since the end of last summer with the onset of the great feud he had with Orton.

[The Truthiness 0]

Yeah, I still can't believe people are still with the whole "Cena and Orton sucks" bit. They are arguably the 2 best performers in the business, it's time to stop the hating, kids. I mean people actually like Edge, and don't like Cena and Orton.

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

Didn't the same happen with The Rock when he started getting stale? Then he started getting heelish and everyone started liking him again.

[Perfection 0]

Yeah, I still can't believe people are still with the whole "Cena and Orton sucks" bit. They are arguably the 2 best performers in the business, it's time to stop the hating, kids. I mean people actually like Edge, and don't like Cena and Orton.

 

I love orton...probably one of the bigger orton fans here and have been for a long while. But until they do something beyond the nauseating baby face character with cena, ie turn him heel, he absolutely bores me to death and just makes me roll my eyes. A lot of it isn't his fault though, it's the stupid writers that come up with the material for him to say. Maybe everyone is becoming conditioned to the current product, I don't know, but I just don't see how anyone finds cena entertaining right now or for the last year or two. It's the same act day in and day out with the same tired, goofy, and immature promos. Of course the usual come back and excuse is it's cool to hate cena. Well I didn't like his character long before "it was cool". It's frustrating to see how any criticism of him of late is always dismissed with this lame excuse/defense. Maybe you enjoy corny baby face characters, I do not.

[Silence 0]

Didn't the same happen with The Rock when he started getting stale? Then he started getting heelish and everyone started liking him again.

 

That "monkey's nipples" catchphrase he was using in 2000 really annoyed me. So did "Who in the blue hell are you?" in 2002.

[cabbageboy 0]

Truthiness, Orton and Cena are destined to be the Bret and Shawn of this era, although they are of course vastly inferior to both of those guys. But by that I mean they are the guys WWE is trying to push in the aftermath of a successful time period. In the 90s those guys had to follow the highly successul Hogan/Savage era, much like how Orton and Cena have to follow the Austin/Rock era.

 

 

[ANKLELOCK 0]

Truthiness, Orton and Cena are destined to be the Bret and Shawn of this era, although they are of course vastly inferior to both of those guys. But by that I mean they are the guys WWE is trying to push in the aftermath of a successful time period. In the 90s those guys had to follow the highly successul Hogan/Savage era, much like how Orton and Cena have to follow the Austin/Rock era.

 

Bull. Shit.

 

And, current WWE is a whole helluvalot more successful than mid-nineties WWE. Mid-nineties WWE was barely afloat financially. This company just had its most profitable year ever. And the first quarter of this year was recently revealed to be more profitable than ANY quarter of last year!

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Yeah, I still can't believe people are still with the whole "Cena and Orton sucks" bit. They are arguably the 2 best performers in the business, it's time to stop the hating, kids. I mean people actually like Edge, and don't like Cena and Orton.

First of all, Edge has been on TV far longer and got over both in the ring and on the mic as a midcarder. Cena and Orton have been projects of the "we can make ANYONE a star by sheer force without them having to earn fan acceptance" machine that was originally built for Triple H and has been pumping out 'main eventers' like Batista and Umaga and Lashley and Orton and Cena ever since.

 

These days you can practically spot the 'chosen one', and they go from curtain jerker to feuding with Triple H almost overnight. (or worse Mr. McMahon, since god knows seeing Vince being knocked around by guys half his age has never started to become routine or ridiculous in principle)

 

Secondly, yeah, Cena's suffering from the bland watered-down effect that happened to post-Corporation Rock and post-WM19 Brock. If you look back in the days of World Life, the padlock and brass knux, and the pre-match rhymes; it's not quite as revolutionary as it used to be but it's way way WAAAAAAAY better than the Chain Gang Souljah Marine Hustle Loyalty Respect HOO-RAH version of Cena that we have today.

 

Like heel Rock and like monster Brock and like Eddie, Cena had this lovable bad boy charm that made him popular because he was so good at being a heel. But rather than heeling it up for pops like Eddie cheating to win, they decided to make him a role model. That was the mistake.

[The Niggardly King 0]

It's not really a mistake... he has about the most perfect look for what Vince has in mind. Good looking young white guy in great shape who has a natural personality and happens to be pretty damn good in the ring? Fuck he's like the perfect mold of what a main star should be for the WWE.

[The Truthiness 0]

Yeah, I still can't believe people are still with the whole "Cena and Orton sucks" bit. They are arguably the 2 best performers in the business, it's time to stop the hating, kids. I mean people actually like Edge, and don't like Cena and Orton.

First of all, Edge has been on TV far longer and got over both in the ring and on the mic as a midcarder. Cena and Orton have been projects of the "we can make ANYONE a star by sheer force without them having to earn fan acceptance" machine that was originally built for Triple H and has been pumping out 'main eventers' like Batista and Umaga and Lashley and Orton and Cena ever since.

These days you can practically spot the 'chosen one', and they go from curtain jerker to feuding with Triple H almost overnight. (or worse Mr. McMahon, since god knows seeing Vince being knocked around by guys half his age has never started to become routine or ridiculous in principle)

 

Secondly, yeah, Cena's suffering from the bland watered-down effect that happened to post-Corporation Rock and post-WM19 Brock. If you look back in the days of World Life, the padlock and brass knux, and the pre-match rhymes; it's not quite as revolutionary as it used to be but it's way way WAAAAAAAY better than the Chain Gang Souljah Marine Hustle Loyalty Respect HOO-RAH version of Cena that we have today.

 

Like heel Rock and like monster Brock and like Eddie, Cena had this lovable bad boy charm that made him popular because he was so good at being a heel. But rather than heeling it up for pops like Eddie cheating to win, they decided to make him a role model. That was the mistake.

 

WOW...I know you can't believe that.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Well, people have said it about H forever.

 

Cena, well, he had a more successful midcarder run, I'll give him that.

 

Orton, pushed to the moon while still a black hole of heat.

 

Umaga, pushed to the moon while a black hole of heat and a midcarder gimmick.

 

Lashley, pushed to the moon with some terrible angles.

 

Batista, pushed to the moon alongside Orton.

 

Compare that to someone like Edge who STILL has fans who prefer his comedy shtick in the midcard to the Rated R thing. TLC was breakout stuff, but it wasn't main eventing Mania, or placed in the mainstream-focused "dream match" slot like Umaga and Lashely got when put together against each other of all things.

[bob_barron 0]

Umaga's gotten over despite the dumb savage gimmick. He's a much better worker than anyone gave him credit for, and I think he deserves the top push he gets. If anything, he shouldn't be jobbed so much

[The Truthiness 0]

Well, people have said it about H forever.

 

Cena, well, he had a more successful midcarder run, I'll give him that.

 

Orton, pushed to the moon while still a black hole of heat.

 

Umaga, pushed to the moon while a black hole of heat and a midcarder gimmick.

 

Lashley, pushed to the moon with some terrible angles.

 

Batista, pushed to the moon alongside Orton.

 

Compare that to someone like Edge who STILL has fans who prefer his comedy shtick in the midcard to the Rated R thing. TLC was breakout stuff, but it wasn't main event

 

ing Mania, or placed in the mainstream-focused "dream match" slot like Umaga and Lashely got when put together against each other of all things.

 

Orton gets a ton of heat.

 

Umaga gets a ton of heat, hell the fans have been begging for him to be made face since mania. He even out popped Batista. His gimmick is awesome, and I don't see how anybody could say other wise.

 

Batista push to the moon was succesful.

 

Orton's push has been succesful.

 

Cena's push has been almost legendary, and even changed the whole direction of the company.

 

Edge is a goof, who has been playing the same character for 3 years. His best work has been with Cena and Taker, but both of them have had better feuds in the last year, than their feud with Edge. Edge on the other hand has had bad matches with the likes of Batista, Mysterio, and a few passable matches with Punk since he's been on Smackdown. Orton and Cena have been better than Edge for a few months now. Don't get me wrong Edge is a awesome heel, but to say he's better than Cena, Orton, Batista, and even Umaga is a bit of a stretch.

 

[ANKLELOCK 0]

A lot of Edges problems would be solved if he had a more credible offense. He goes up against Batista and taker and we're supposed to believe he can finish them off with that fuckin spear of his? Of course, I'm starting to sound like the mindless Cena haters who say his offense is weak. In reality, offense is the least important aspect of being a good worker. By far. Of course, Edge is nowhere near the seller that Cena is, but...

 

I guess Edge's cheater, opportunist gimmick somewhat helps because fans aren't supposed to buy that he can beat the faces in clean matches but he definitely needs to switch finishers.

[cd213 0]

It's not really a mistake... he has about the most perfect look for what Vince has in mind. Good looking young white guy in great shape who has a natural personality and happens to be pretty damn good in the ring? Fuck he's like the perfect mold of what a main star should be for the WWE.

 

And that's why he originally had the gimmick of Prototype. He was the prototype of what every wrestlers should be. I'm not saying he is the prototype, but I'm saying he had the right idea back in the day.