MMA Comments that Don't Warrant a Thread

[Guest]

I've seen the Bonjasky fight before. That's the classic example of someone getting in the ring without taking their training seriously, or even doing the right training at all. Or possibly in Mercer's case, being so poor that he could not afford the time that it took to train.

 

It all depends on the guy. Frans Botha won a few K-1 fights. Shannon Briggs won his K-1 fight. Vince Phillips lost his K-1 fight.

 

The only thing about all those results is that all of those boxers were past their prime when taking those fights. I would like to see one with substance get in the ring with Bonjasky. Like one of the Klitschko brothers.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

There's no way in hell Floyd avoids Sherk's shot for fifteen seconds, let alone minutes. I know a lot of boxing fans are enamoured with his physical gifts, as they should be, but a basic sprawl is something he has no concept of. It takes guys years to develop a good wrestling base, he can't avoid that with good footwork alone. Sherk would either do the helmet defense, clinch up with PBF and take him down, or he would shoot in from the outside, bullrush Floyd and take him down. I'm amazed at the amount of people who think otherwise. It doesn't matter how great an athlete you are, when you are in that unfamiliar setting and you have to worry about all aspects of the game, you're gonna perform worse than your potential, which is what would happen with Floyd. Hell, even if he were one hundred percent confident, it still wouldn't change the fact that his wrestling ability is zero. Why am I even arguing this? Everybody go rent UFC I.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, I think a shot from someone like Sean Sherk is getting severely underestimated by some here. They aren't slow. There's very little chance of Sherk taking a punch while going for a takedown.

[Guest]

Combat sports as a whole have changed a lot since UFC I. I won't argue your point though, because either way you put it, the fact of the matter is that we simply don't know. There is no way to accurately predict a top caliber championship boxer in his prime getting in the octagon and fighting anyone, much less a fighter like Sean Sherk. That's why I also mentioned in my hypothetical, any boxer getting in the octagon needs at least a year to train, otherwise they're wasting their time because they would be beaten in a hurry.

 

That's why the whole thing is so interesting, it's because it is unprecedented and a venture into the unknown. In all truth, if Sherk were to win via tapout, what does it really prove? That Sherk is better on the ground? That's a fucking no-brainer. And that's what the media would do, and it would not add more credibility to the sport than what the sport already had. It would most certainly be different if Sherk straight knocked Floyd out, via kicks or punches.

 

Yeah, I think a shot from someone like Sean Sherk is getting severely underestimated by some here. They aren't slow. There's very little chance of Sherk taking a punch while going for a takedown.

From Floyd, the chance is much higher than it would be from someone else.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=o8R5uWDm65Q

 

Just watch the handspeed.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

If he had a year of training, then he wouldn't be a boxer, he'd be a mixed martial artist. That only proves the point further.

 

While Art Jimmerson is nowhere near as good as PBF in a P4P sense, he still was a world class boxer at the time (amassing a 35-10 record or something along those lines). A lot of things could have been different, like his strategy or what have you, but the point is he got dominated by someone sixty lbs lighter than him and was taken down by a horrible, HORRIBLE wrestler. I would even argue that he was faster than Royce, with the size advantage. Anyone that has wrestled will tell you that at the elite level ten pounds is a lot, hence why we have weightclasses. For a guy like Royce with minimal wrestling training to have taken down a guy that much bigger than him so quick, just goes to show you the amount of work needed to develop your wrestling. Let's not get into the fact that Sherk is one of the most consistent fighters you will find, rarely underperforms, and is actually a pretty well-rounded fighter. Arguably a BJJ black belt level of grappling, if not a brown at least, along with world-class wrestling skills (I said it), great conditioning, immense strength and one of the biggest hearts in the sport. He outstruck Nick Diaz on the feet, who is a pro boxer. Until PBF can outwrestle a D-1 level wrestler, I won't have any doubt as to what would happen in this fight.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Combat sports as a whole have changed a lot since UFC I. I won't argue your point though, because either way you put it, the fact of the matter is that we simply don't know. There is no way to accurately predict a top caliber championship boxer in his prime getting in the octagon and fighting anyone, much less a fighter like Sean Sherk. That's why I also mentioned in my hypothetical, any boxer getting in the octagon needs at least a year to train, otherwise they're wasting their time because they would be beaten in a hurry.

 

That's why the whole thing is so interesting, it's because it is unprecedented and a venture into the unknown. In all truth, if Sherk were to win via tapout, what does it really prove? That Sherk is better on the ground? That's a fucking no-brainer. And that's what the media would do, and it would not add more credibility to the sport than what the sport already had. It would most certainly be different if Sherk straight knocked Floyd out, via kicks or punches.

 

Yeah, I think a shot from someone like Sean Sherk is getting severely underestimated by some here. They aren't slow. There's very little chance of Sherk taking a punch while going for a takedown.

From Floyd, the chance is much higher than it would be from someone else.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=o8R5uWDm65Q

 

Just watch the handspeed.

 

Ok. That video pretty much does nothing for PBF but show how he'd get put on his back. Everything that gives PBF his speed would have to be taken away if he were to face Sherk in an MMA bout because they all lend themselves for takedowns.

 

Just watch his stance.

 

And then watch Sherks shot.

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/searc...u_sean-sherk-hl

 

Gatti got under a number of Mayweathers punches even to the point of having his shoulders at Floyds waist-level. There is no doubt in my mind that Sherk would put him on the mat, even after a year of drilling wrestling day after day.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Sean Sherk is thanking the stars because this is the most publicity he's gotten in his life. Not too long ago he was content to be a framer for a living. How times change.

[Guest]

But even still, Floyd getting tapped out doesn't prove a lot of anything. It just proves that Sherk is superior on the ground, which everyone already knows. If Sherk actually knocked Floyd out, that would put MMA over boxing in the eyes of the media and the casual fight fan. That's making waves.

 

While Art Jimmerson is nowhere near as good as PBF in a P4P sense, he still was a world class boxer at the time (amassing a 35-10 record or something along those lines).

Jimmerson went 33-18. He fought for the NABF Light Heavyweight title once and the doctor stopped the fight in the 3rd round, with Jimmerson the loser. The guy that held that belt finished his career with a 26-13 record. The only time Jimmerson fought a good fighter was Vassily Jirov. He got straight knocked the fuck out. Jimmerson got knocked out 12 times in 51 fights. Gracie could have closed his eyes and beaten him.

 

Nick Diaz has fought one 4 round professional boxing fight. He won by unanimous decision, against another guy who was making his debut. The guy is now 7-4, btw.

 

I'm on 56k, so I can't run the Sherk video. I only posted the Mayweather video cause I've seen the fight about 10 times. I want to run it, but I can't. Can't debate that at all. The only thing I can say is that Gatti was getting under Floyd's punches because he was looking to find a way to not get hit. And yet, he was still getting hammered with clean, accurate punches.

 

I am not trying to say that boxers are better than Mixed Martial Artists. That is not what I'm trying to say at all. I'm just saying that in this particular case, Floyd would have a shot. Like for example, I think that Hermes Franca would have an easier time with Floyd than Sherk would. Those are just my personal opinions. Styles and all that.

 

I think that almost all boxers would lose in the octagon against decent opposition. I think that almost all mixed martial artists would lose boxing matches against decent opposition. However, there are some exceptions to the rule.

 

The only way that this fight would be a really big deal if it took place is if Sherk knocked out Floyd, or if Floyd submitted Sherk. Otherwise it's just telling us what we already know.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Floyd has a very wide stance where he puts a lot of weight on his front foot. While he keeps his hands relatively low when not engaging, when he does throw punches - specifically combinations - his hands go much higher. So all Sherk has to do to get PBF's hands higher is to feint a punch or lead in with a jab and change levels, and that's if he even thinks Floyd has a chance at blocking his shot. From there, with Floyds weight distribution and his leg right out there for the picking, it's an easy shot to make for anyone with a few years wrestling training, let alone decades worth like Sherk has. Mayweather would have to retool his entire form and style in order to even begin to avoid a takedown.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And this isn't even opening up a discussion on 4 ounce gloves.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I was admittedly overrating Jimmerson but I think the point still stands. If Jimmerson was 50-0 would his boxing skills have helped him avoid the takedown? I don't think so. Francois Botha has not fared too well in K-1, he was a world class boxer at one point I believe, he did fight for the world title (getting his ass kicked admittedly). He got kicked in the head and embarrassed by Cyril Abidi, the same guy who got knocked out by Rampage twice.

 

I think you're assuming that a boxer's physical gifts would be enough for them to avoid the ground, but skills are more important. There are so many things a boxer does that he would not be able to do in MMA, for obvious reasons, but even in a strict muay thai match where it's all striking. Weaving would cause him to get kneed in the face, the shuffling of his feet would get leg kicked to all hell. This doesn't take into account the grappling aspect of it, which is a whole other world to worry about.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

If a wrestler shoots in how is the boxer going to hit him? Almost every punch would be ineffective as it would go over the wrestlers head, be too late from the wind up, or connect and have little impact because it came from tight and inside and the best punch -and uppercut- would take too long to work. The best way to defend a shot is to sprawl, or throw a knee. Two things that boxers don't do. Then it would be to side step, stiff arm/forearm, and counter punch, which again would mean a change in stance and hand placement. The thing is, with a boxer, it's pretty much a rock paper scissors aspect, and you know he is going to throw rock and you have paper. In MMA, the most successful guys have ways of changing it up and throwing their opponent off. Sherks loss to GSP, for example.

[Guest]

Floyd has a very wide stance where he puts a lot of weight on his front foot. While he keeps his hands relatively low when not engaging, when he does throw punches - specifically combinations - his hands go much higher. So all Sherk has to do to get PBF's hands higher is to feint a punch or lead in with a jab and change levels, and that's if he even thinks Floyd has a chance at blocking his shot.

That's true, because Floyd's hands always come up in that "Philly shell" style when someone feints or throws a punch at him. That could probably never be fixed. Sherk would have to feint and shoot at almost the same time, but that's not impossible. But also, Sherk would have to not leave any room for Floyd to hit him with the straight right while he's changing levels. It would take a really long time for Mayweather to recognize that to begin with.

 

I don't know how much the gloves matter. For the boxer, the main difference for him is going to be the surface area of the glove. Boxers like lighter gloves, but I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't like less surface area on the glove. So in one way it benefits them, because it exhibits their power better, but it hurts them because it gives them less surface area to land their punches with. That's a big adjustment.

 

What I was looking for was Sherk's reach. But I can't find it. It would be even harder for PBF because Sherk is much more compact at his size. When Floyd fought at 154 on Saturday, he'd never fought at that weight before. In fact, Floyd came to the weigh-in at 150, but fought at 148. In all truth, Floyd is a blown up 135 pounder. Of course, Floyd would get submitted (my point all along was that I don't want to see that. It serves no purpose other than to see Floyd get tapped out, which everyone already knows would happen. If I wanted to watch an MMA v. Boxer fight, I'd want to watch one with lots of strikes, because that way if the MMA guy lost, he could always say, I fought with him and gave him what I had. I wanted to show him that we could punch.). But at the same time, Sherk would never want to trade punches with Floyd.

 

I hate that Floyd had to be the one to say these things. I would have rather seen a guy like Manny Pacquiao come out and make these statements. Probably because he'd get in there and do it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

But if you are going to enter into Kickboxing and Muay Thai, then I'd put money on a PBF against anyone. There is talk about washed up boxers sucking in kickboxing, but what of top kickboxers sucking in boxing? Ray Sefo, a top kickboxer, got done in by a guy who was by no means a world beater.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

You're taking away his weapons, that's why. With kicks, knees and elbows it becomes very different. Boxers would do very well because of their speed and agression though. However, a smart thai fighter only need to create distance, circle then kick at the legs to really do damage. Top muay thai fighters are not what you see in K-1 though, you'd have to go to Thailand and see a bunch of 135 lb'ers for that.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

RANDY COUTURE vs. PRESIDENT PALMER (The good one) on THE UNIT. Tremendous. Randy did a good job too (so far)!

[Lord of The Curry 0]

And just to keep the Couture Express rollin' Dana announced that The Natural will be the first ever mixed martial artist to make the cover of Sports Illustrated. Possible cover headlines.....

 

"Runnin' shit at Forty-Plus"

 

"Better then whatever athlete you idolize"

 

"Hey, Tim? Fuck you"

[starvenger 0]

And just to keep the Couture Express rollin' Dana announced that The Natural will be the first ever mixed martial artist to make the cover of Sports Illustrated. Possible cover headlines.....

 

"Runnin' shit at Forty-Plus"

 

"Better then whatever athlete you idolize"

 

"Hey, Tim? Fuck you"

I like those. Of course, we're probably gonna get something like "Is Boxing Dead?" with "Randy Couture and the UFC Choke Out the Competition" as a subtitle.

[Guest]

Someone of substance wants to take Dana up on his offer.

 

CINTRON OFFERS TO REPLACE MAYWEATHER

IN CHALLENGE OF UFC CHAMPION

 

 

BLOOMFIELD, NJ (May 8, 2007) – Floyd Mayweather, Jr doesn’t want to battle a UFC champion. No problem. IBF World Welterweight Champion and former high school/college wrestling star Kermit Cintron would like to accept the challenge from UFC President Dana White, it was announced today by Main Events CEO Kathy Duva. Cintron, who will be defending his IBF crown against mandatory challenger Walter Matthysse on July 14 in Atlantic City, NJ, would like to battle the UFC champion following his June IBF title defense.

 

“I want the fight,” said Cintron. “I can wrestle. I can box. I can beat those UFC fighters at their own game. Tell Mr. White to make me an offer and I’ll take on his guy after I fight Matthysse on July 14.”

 

Cintron (27-1, 25 KO’s) captured the vacant IBF crown on October 28, 2006, when he destroyed Mark Suarez in six rounds (TKO 6). The 27-year-old Reading, PA resident by way of Carolinas, Puerto Rico once finished 10th at the NJCAA Wrestling Championships. As a senior in high school he was offered full wrestling scholarships to Wisconsin University and Ohio State University.

 

The Cintron-Matthysse bout will serve as the co-feature to the Arturo Gatti-Alfonso Gomez contest. Main Events is promoting the July 14 evening of boxing, in association with The Tournament of Contenders, LLC and Caesars Atlantic City.

Uh, yeah. I would like to see Dana make this happen.

 

Cintron would get his ass beat.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I read that, I don't know how relevant his wrestling background is. How good is he at boxing? He's not an undisputed champ at his weight class is he?

 

Probably recognizing the popularity of the UFC and looking at a quick paycheck, without understanding what he's in for I gather.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I read that, I don't know how relevant his wrestling background is. How good is he at boxing? He's not an undisputed champ at his weight class is he?

 

Probably recognizing the popularity of the UFC and looking at a quick paycheck, without understanding what he's in for I gather.

 

He's pretty much a prospect, but has raw talent. He would blast Sherk with one good shot if he could avoid Sherk's takedowns.

 

25 of his 28 wins have ended in KO.

[Guest]

I read that, I don't know how relevant his wrestling background is. How good is he at boxing? He's not an undisputed champ at his weight class is he?

 

Probably recognizing the popularity of the UFC and looking at a quick paycheck, without understanding what he's in for I gather.

Cintron's ok. He was going to get a good paycheck against Shane Mosley but his promoter fucked him out of the date. He's held two belts. He'll get a good paycheck soon, UFC or not. Great power, questionable chin. 25 KO's in 28 fights.

 

I think he's way overestimating his wrestling ability and background. I'm going to post part of this maxboxing chat he had before his last fight, which took place last year.

 

You're not only a world class boxer, but also an accomplished wrestler. So I'm curious, what are your thoughts on the recent Mixed Martial Arts explosion in popularity? Do you watch UFC or PRIDE, or do you prefer boxing and grappling to be separate?

 

Good luck with Suarez, Killer.

 

Kermit Cintron:: to be honest when I was wrestling after practice we would stay there and practice because there was this small UFC style tourney

Kermit Cintron:if I didnt make it to Nationals I would have done that

Kermit Cintron:but I made it

Kermit Cintron:maybe one day

Kermit Cintron:I would love to do it

Kermit Cintron:I like one on one combat

Kermit Cintron:so I am interested in it

Kermit Cintron:I watch it a lot

I think he's been thinking about this for a long time.

[starvenger 0]

The thing with Cintron is that unlike other boxers/boxing afficionados he seems to take MMA seriously. Whether that translates to being prepared in a MMA fight remains to be seen though.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Lightweight UFC fighter and former Ultimate Fighter contestant Melvin Guillard was today handed an eight month suspension by the Nevada State Athletic Commission at a disciplinary hearing earlier today in Las Vegas.

 

MMAWeekly reports that Guillard, who tested positive for Benzoylegonine following his loss to Joe Stevenson at UFC’s Fight Night 9 back on April 5, was also fined $2,100 out of his $7,000 purse for the fight. At today’s disciplinary hearing, Guillard, who is the first MMA fighter to test positive for cocaine in the state of Nevada, admitted to using the drug, saying that he had used it on March 30 and was of the impression that it would be out of his system within 72 hours.

 

Guillard will have to provide a negative drug test to the NSAC before he will be allowed to fight again in Nevada.

 

Wrestlemag

[Mik 0]

Koscheck vs. GSP is ON for August.

 

Same card as Randy vs. Gonzaga.

 

Two knockout cards in a row.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Kurt Pellegrino vs Joe Stevenson and Tim Sylvia vs Frank Mir are also on the card.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Hey Frank, go for the other arm this time.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

There's really no reason why Sylvia doesn't kill him dead within the first round.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

There's really no reason why Sylvia doesn't kill him dead within the first round.

Why are you killing my hopes?

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I don't like Sylvia but I'm even less of a Mir fan. More or less the MMA definition of Downhill Career. I'd be willing to wager if Sylvia wins this Mir is done with UFC. I still haven't forgiven Mir for his shitfest of a fight with Big Dan at UFC 61.