NEW ROH Champion!!!!

[The Truthiness 0]

I just got a text from a mate at the IWW show in Tallaght tonight, it was Nigel McGuinness defending the ROH title against Vic Viper. There's already a thread about the match here: http://www.f4wonline.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=51927

 

Anyway, Viper hit his Snakebite finisher and pinned Nigel clean. Although I rang another of my friends who got a free ticket to the show from work and he said that there was interference in the match before Viper got the pin

 

Nigel's on another show tomorrow so I guess he'll win the title back there because Vic Viper is not holding onto the belt

 

It might not be recognized.

 

Credit: F4W online

[Jingus 0]

Vic who? Hell muthafuckin' no it ain't gonna be recognized.

[bob_barron 0]

Don't give me a heart attack, The Truthiness.

[The Truthiness 0]

Gabe deleted the thread at the ROH boards.

[The Truthiness 0]

Don't give me a heart attack, The Truthiness.

 

Not trying to buddy, it caught me off guard also. lol

 

VIC VIPER

 

 

[SamoaRowe 0]

Yeah, if Gabe is deleting threads about this, then there's no way in hell this will be recognized.

 

 

[Zack Malibu 0]

I doubt Gabe would let his belt, probably the most prestigious in the current US wrestling atmosphere (what with the way they're treated in the Big Two), won by an unknown on an indy show, even if it was to pull a quick switch back. It's not like the WCW TV Title being traded on a house show tour before the next tapings or something. I'm not saying this was some type of screwjob or anything, but I'd like to hear if there's more to this story.

[The Truthiness 0]

I doubt Gabe would let his belt, probably the most prestigious in the current US wrestling atmosphere (what with the way they're treated in the Big Two),

 

Really?

 

 

[Youth N Asia 0]

If Gabe tells the ROH sheep that it didn't happen then it didn't happen

[Jingus 0]

I doubt Gabe would let his belt, probably the most prestigious in the current US wrestling atmosphere (what with the way they're treated in the Big Two),

 

Really?

Compared to any other indy belt in the country, sure. What other American, non-WWE/TNA belt is considered more presitigious?

[Youth N Asia 0]

I doubt Gabe would let his belt, probably the most prestigious in the current US wrestling atmosphere (what with the way they're treated in the Big Two),

 

Really?

Compared to any other indy belt in the country, sure. What other American, non-WWE/TNA belt is considered more presitigious?

 

I think what Malibu is saying he's putting the ROH title above the WWE and TNA belt

[Jingus 0]

(what with the way they're treated in the Big Two)

This seems to suggest he's exempting them from the equation. ROH does get special treatment from the big leagues compared to most other indy promotions.

[The Truthiness 0]

I doubt Gabe would let his belt, probably the most prestigious in the current US wrestling atmosphere (what with the way they're treated in the Big Two),

 

Really?

Compared to any other indy belt in the country, sure. What other American, non-WWE/TNA belt is considered more presitigious?

 

I think he's saying the ROH title is more prestigious than the WWE and WWE's World title, I don't agree with that.

 

As far as TNA's championship... Who cares?

 

This seems to suggest he's exempting them from the equation. ROH does get special treatment from the big leagues compared to most other indy promotions

 

I think he believes "The Big Two" don't treat their titles with enough prestige.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

The NWA Titles, or do they mean nothing now too?

[SamoaRowe 0]

A championship, to me, is only as prestigious as the company wants it to be.

 

Right now, the WWE title means something, in part to it's 40+ years of lineage, and that it's treated like a really big deal on Raw.

 

The World Heavyweight title means jack shit. The Smackdown writers book the show so that it's traded between Undertaker, Edge, and Batista, and seemingly no one else on the roster is striving for a shot at it.

 

The ROH title has always been booked as a big deal. Title changes are very meaningful and have big ramifications on the entire promotion. The wrestlers fighting for it tend to act like it's the most important fight of their lives. Not to mention the outstanding lineage the belt was behind it, in less than seven years.

[Youth N Asia 0]

The NWA Titles, or do they mean nothing now too?

 

They haven't meant anything in a very long time

 

[Zack Malibu 0]

The ROH title has always been booked as a big deal. Title changes are very meaningful and have big ramifications on the entire promotion. The wrestlers fighting for it tend to act like it's the most important fight of their lives. Not to mention the outstanding lineage the belt was behind it, in less than seven years.

 

This is exactly what I meant.

 

I'd even argue that both titles in the WWE are treated like shit. Sure, they did really well with booking Orton's run and making him into a legitimate threat and headliner, but let's not forget the debacle at No Mercy with the WCW-esque "two changes in one night". The World Title has the "curse" stigma behind it, but honestly they're not helping themselves by having Undertaker get his big win and then having the belt stripped in another tired heel GM storyline. TNA's World Title has been booked shockingly well for a promotion whose other two titles are vacated, put up for grabs in multi-person matches, or fought for by slapdash teams in odd tournaments on a weekly basis, but they've still got a long way to go.

 

I meant nothing about lineage or history when referring to the ROH belt being the most prestigious right now, but simply that it is the best example of what a championship should be. Not only do you have the legit best in the world vying for it, but it's not treated as an afterthought. That belt is the end all and be all of every worker in the company, from Nigel right on down to Bobby Dempsey.

[bob_barron 0]

I'd even argue that both titles in the WWE are treated like shit. Sure, they did really well with booking Orton's run and making him into a legitimate threat and headliner, but let's not forget the debacle at No Mercy with the WCW-esque "two changes in one night".

 

The WWE title is absolutely treated with prestige. Look at how long Cena and Orton's reigns were, and every match they had showed that both champions would do anything to win. Ever since Cena jumped to RAW, they've done an excellent job booking the WWE title.

 

Calling No Mercy a debacle is incorrect given how awesome the main event was, and how good the buyrate was. I don't blame them for the three title changes in one night, they had to give the fans something noteworthy to make up for the main event being cancelled 5 days before the show.

[Youth N Asia 0]

The spinner gimmick on the WWE belt doesn't do much for me as adding value to the title. I thought it would end with Cena, but I saw a moment of the show the other night and they still have the bling bling belt

[Broward83 0]

Prestige just doesn't mean say only one or two or even three people in the year have held it. It means (to me at least) that the title is the highest glory for any and all workers in the promotion. I don't see Matt Hardy really trying to go after the title.. I don't see anyone save for the same generic upper-echelon of talent trying to gain the title.

 

The spinner belt and I guess the non-spinner but still blinged out belt looks god-awful and hurts the over-all appeal of the belt. Why would I want to win a title that looks like it was created at some strip-mall jewlery store for someone to proclaim the push the most rock on the streets?

 

By default we always give the nod to the WWE as far as its title meaning the most but I don't hold it that high anymore. I'd even give maybe the IWGP title a higher ranking over the Raw belt. (Which, is another thing I have a problem with. With two belts..it takes the luster and prestige from the other. With the presumed thought that Raw is better than Smackdown, why should I care about the Smackdown title over the Raw belt?)

 

As an aside, when guys in RoH hold the title for a year, I don't hear many people complaining over it. In the E, everyone complains about "Superman Cena" or Triple H "HHHolding down" the talent. What's the big difference?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I think the difference is that when someone holds the RoH title it's always been someone who's holding it for the first time.

 

When HHH or Cena hold it for a long time...they're just keeping the same people on top...all...of...the...fucking...time...

 

God I hate them.

[SamoaRowe 0]

I might be the only person on Earth who doesn't mind the spinner belt. Now that the belt doesn't spin and I've had three years to get used to it, it comes across more as a modernized/revamped idea of what a championship belt would look like in 2008. If I had my way, they'd still be using the same WWE title belt they had in the late 90's/early 00's (right before the creation of the Undisputed title belt) so I'm not saying that I'm in love with the spinner or anything, it just doesn't bother me and I don't think it hurts the image of the championship itself in any way.

 

I'll admit, it seemed amusing to me in 2005 when Chris Jericho was clutching the spinner belt and staring at it as if he was looking at all his hopes and dreams. However, now I'm just used to it.

[Hawk 34 0]

I think the difference is that when someone holds the RoH title it's always been someone who's holding it for the first time.

 

They also tend to defend the titles against a wider variety of challengers. Yes, guys like Danielson did face Roderick Strong, Cabana and McGuinness multiple times, he still had a tremendous number of defenses against all types of people. However, it's seemigly the same crop of challengers for Cena and Triple H.

[SamoaRowe 0]

The other good thing about the long ROH title reigns (and many first time champions) is that if Austin Aries were to win the belt for a second time, he'd have all sorts of fresh matches because it's been three years since he last held the title and the roster has changed dramatically since then. Some might argue that Danielson has already reached that point as well.

[Zack Malibu 0]

Going back to what Bob said about No Mercy, I would absolutely agree that the main event was awesome, however if prestige is based on having great matches then the TNA titles would mean a lot more than they do right now.

[bob_barron 0]

My problem with the ROH title is the same guys always seem to get shots at the title, no matter who the champion is. Morishima winning the title in his second match was bullshit.

 

When HHH or Cena hold it for a long time...they're just keeping the same people on top...all...of...the...fucking...time...

 

God I hate them.

 

Never really saw what there was to hate about Cena. The guy had good matches month after month as champ, and I don't see who he held down or buried

[bob_barron 0]

Going back to what Bob said about No Mercy, I would absolutely agree that the main event was awesome, however if prestige is based on having great matches then the TNA titles would mean a lot more than they do right now.

 

Does the TNA World Title really have great matches though? It seems like every match is filled with the usual overbooking ref bump nonsense.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

I might be the only person on Earth who doesn't mind the spinner belt.

No, you're not. I can't get over this image that I have in my head of some faceless, whiny twenty-two year-old every time I read about someone complaining about the "spinner" belt.

 

Maybe it's just that I haven't seen enough ROH, but I'm getting a disconnect between ROH having better wrestling = the ROH title is more prestigious. It seems like a 1 + 1 = pear equation to me... I have difficulty, for example, believing that either Samoa Joe or CM Punk would say that holding the ROH Title was the highlight of their respective careers, but I could easily be wrong about that.

[bob_barron 0]

I'd say it was the highlight of Samoa Joe's career, as his title reign was what got him noticed and really helped elevate himself and ROH as a whole.

 

Punk's was more of a fun angle, though I don't think it was great as everyone said, given how they botched the Daniels feud and had the payoff be in Dayton instead of the Northeast

[Hawk 34 0]

I think Samoa Joe would claim that. He takes tremendous pride in his part of that legacy. Punk? I would imagine winning at WM would be his claim over a fantastic and surprising title run in an independent promotion. Also, I would imagine James Gibson holds that brief title reign in high regard as well.