Major Shakeup In ROH

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

They turn a small profit according to the observer and other sites...but they're no where near paying off the debt they owe Panda Energy for sustaining them for the first 5 years or so. But yeah, they run under their own income now.

[2GOLD 0]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't TNA actually self-sufficient now? I thought I remember hearing that they turned the corner financially.

 

I'm not sure HOW they have done it but apparently they are making money. But considering Midway is about dead now, that means they are probably going to lose anything from the video game deal and with all the contracts coming to an end this year, they could be right back in the red.

 

 

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't TNA actually self-sufficient now? I thought I remember hearing that they turned the corner financially.

 

I'm not sure HOW they have done it but apparently they are making money.

They've expanded the number of revenue streams, with more DVD's, merch and, of course, the video game. It's a good model as far as the financial side of things go, but it can create a sense of apathy when it comes to shaking up the booking when it needs it, because those in creative will point to the profit being made as proof they should remain in power.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Everything that TNA lacks in the understanding of running a wrestling show...

 

It's like...the opposite when it comes to running a business.

 

They've managed to turn the company profitable while buyrates went down and ratings stayed the same. I think it has something to do with all of their international TV deals (they've got a ton of them) and the number of liscencing deals that they've made.

[Jingus 0]

One factor that often gets overlooked in TNA's current profitable status is their gouging of indy wrestling companies. Every single time any TNA "independent contractor" gets booked by any indy show, TNA takes a cool 25% of their salary as a "booking fee". And since basically everyone in the company (except the biggest main eventers) frequently take outside bookings, it provides a pretty steady revenue stream. Which I personally think is a fucking scumbag maneuver which only hurts both the small companies and the wrestlers. But yeah, that's one way they're making money.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

The "independent contractors" know that before they sign a contract. They're making an informed choice.

[Jingus 0]

True, but it's still dirty pool.

[dorianb 0]

It's really not that bad for the TNA guys because in the end, most of the guys that get booked at other feds end up doing a Q&A gimmick or a seminar, along with polaroids and merchandise and they make that money TNA gets right back. Plus a lot of indy guys use an agent-like person anyways to set up bookings for a fee. there were guys that got booked through Bill Behrens that weren't a part of TNA when Behrens was there. It might seem crappy on the surface, but I've seen a few TNA guys get booked at the fed I wrestle for and leave with a very nice payday when it's all said and done.

 

Also, some trainers/promoters have far worse financial practices and they tell you it's "helping you pay your dues."

[Jingus 0]

It's really not that bad for the TNA guys because in the end, most of the guys that get booked at other feds end up doing a Q&A gimmick or a seminar, along with polaroids and merchandise and they make that money TNA gets right back.

Yeah, but the wrestlers were already getting money from gimmick sales before TNA ever put this policy in place, or at least the ones who had their shit together were. The guys were already handling their own bookings. Heck, a lot of them worked more independent shows back then than they do now, Samoa Joe's one example. And then TNA has rules about what their workers are and aren't allowed to do (no appearing on TV! no doing jobs to locals!) and has certain companies where you aren't allowed to work (hello ROH) unless you get specific permission ahead of time.

 

I think it's especially shady for TNA to demand this when, for the majority of their workers, they don't actually pay a full living wage. The undercarders have to work indy shows in order to just make a living due to TNA underpaying them, and then that company turns around and demands a large chunk of their independent bookings? Fuck that. It's pure greed on TNA's part. Even the WWE doesn't do that; admittedly, their guys have to get permission to work an indy show in the first place, but the company doesn't demand a cut of their outside revenues.

 

Also, some trainers/promoters have far worse financial practices and they tell you it's "helping you pay your dues."

Oh yeah, and that's just plain fraud or extortion. I think Larry Sharpe started that shit back in the old Monster Factory, but there are plenty of greedy trainers around today who insist on taking a percentage, or that after graduation you have to work all their shows for free, and so on. It's unethical bullshit, and if pro wrestling were actually on the legal radar (which it's not, I'd say 99% of indy shows aren't reported to the IRS) it could seriously be contested in court.

[dorianb 0]

At the end of the day, all of these guys in TNA signed a contract to work there. The opportunity always outweighs the BS in wrestling, believe me. I'd wrestle for free to get a shot in WWE ( of course I'd eventually want to get paid if I made it lol) and I know they're crooked as hell, but who isn't? Pro wrestling is a business built from the premise of scamming people. I'm sure you already know that this is a shady business and I definitely knew it before I got into it, but I still get surprised at some of the stuff.

 

But,even if TNA's contracts isn't enough for every wrestler's full living expense, it's still better than what gets scraped up and handed to you in most indy feds. You have to be a super merchandise pusher like Colt Cabana was to make some decent dough in the indys. TNA guys get leverage from being in a national promotion and can easily ask for 10 times more than the average indy wrestler can. When the fed I wrestle for brought Samoa Joe in, he easily made over $1,000 dollars and it wasn't even a huge crowd, plus he let the promotion have the money made from the seminar because he had to cancel the first time he was scheduled to come in on the day of the show.

 

And the parameters that they put on worker's appearances on tv for other companies is just being smart. No point in letting them mug for other promotions' (ROH lol) cameras when they can see them Thurdays on Impact.

 

It seems unfair and it is, but they're guys getting much rawer deals in the indy's. And since we were talking about "pay your dues" trainers, I know of an indy promoter/ wrestler/ trainer that doesn't let his trainees get any of the money they make working shows for a year. Some people think thats fine, but whatever lol.

[Maztinho 0]

Dor... Jingus is/was a ref/ring announcer for some fed. He's "in" as it where.

 

TNA taking a cut might be known to the workers, but like Jingus pointed out, alot of the lower end guys don't really have a choice, so they have to fork over the 25% just so they can stay solvent. That's kinda low, man. Kinda low.

[dorianb 0]

It's cool that jingus is in wrestling as well, I was never questioning whether or not he knew what he was talking about. I was more or less trying to say that it is low, but it's not really that unexpected and it could be a lot worse and it is worse in a lot of places. Everyone has a choice to wrestle or not and in the end, people make that choice and work to hopefully make more money. Now this could maybe all change if everyone came together, but that's about as impossible as impossible is lol. And it's not the promoters' faults, it's the workers for letting it be this way and the promoters are just having their pick and making all the rules and whatever little money there is to be made.

[Jingus 0]

Jingus is/was a ref/ring announcer for some fed.

Hey, that's MISTER referee/ring announcer/play-by-play announcer/incompetent heel manager/music guy/cameraman/food run deliverer/airport shuttle service/"Hey, you, kid, get me some water"/general entourage/on rare occasions really shitty wrestler, buddy.

 

At the end of the day, all of these guys in TNA signed a contract to work there. The opportunity always outweighs the BS in wrestling, believe me. I'd wrestle for free to get a shot in WWE ( of course I'd eventually want to get paid if I made it lol) and I know they're crooked as hell, but who isn't?

Yeah, I know it's crooked, and with the internet and all the wrestler's autobiographies and shoot interviews and stuff even a first-day trainee should know it's crooked if they do their homework before paying for training. But just because it's always been crooked doesn't mean it's okay for it to continue being crooked. And since I have no way to change it, I'll do the next best thing, and whine about it on a message board.

 

But,even if TNA's contracts isn't enough for every wrestler's full living expense, it's still better than what gets scraped up and handed to you in most indy feds. You have to be a super merchandise pusher like Colt Cabana was to make some decent dough in the indys. TNA guys get leverage from being in a national promotion and can easily ask for 10 times more than the average indy wrestler can.

True, you make better money in TNA than you do working the random indies. But my problem with them is that TNA acts like they're a full-time employer, rather than someone who uses their talent just a few days per month. They try to have a disproportionate amount of control over their talent. And the new rules could fuck them out of some bookings, too. Like, let's say the wrestler used to take cheap bookings from some local fed because it's right down the road from their house. Under the new rules, they either had to take a pay cut, or the fed had to shell out more cash, and I could easily see neither one happening and the wrestler just sitting home those nights instead.

 

And the parameters that they put on worker's appearances on tv for other companies is just being smart. No point in letting them mug for other promotions' (ROH lol) cameras when they can see them Thurdays on Impact.

But once again, it places constraints on the other promotions' ability to use these guys, and makes them less likely to book these guys at all. At one point, I think the company even announced a rule that TNA guys were only allowed to be booked if they were wrestling other TNA guys! I don't think that one lasted long, but this company has a lot of little nitpicky things like that which get in the way of outside employment for their contracted talent.

 

As for the TV thing, why does it matter? This isn't like the old days, where a star had to be "protected" from doing jobs on television. And anyway, it's not a competing product since nobody else but the WWE has national television. Every other wrestling show in this country is just on a local station, and I don't see how having Sharkboy show up on a no-budget local wrestling show on a paid-access cable station and be seen by that show's dozens and dozens of viewers could possibly affect TNA's bottom line in any way whatsoever. It just makes any independent company which happens to have their own TV show very unlikely to book any TNA guys at all.

 

It seems unfair and it is, but they're guys getting much rawer deals in the indy's. And since we were talking about "pay your dues" trainers, I know of an indy promoter/ wrestler/ trainer that doesn't let his trainees get any of the money they make working shows for a year. Some people think thats fine, but whatever lol.

Hell no it's not fine. I first trained at a crappy little place like that, they'd train you for relatively cheap but then you had to work for them, for free, until they felt you'd "paid your dues". Of course, this led to guys either working there for years without getting paid, or just up and quitting the promotion and going elsewhere for work. After about six weeks of training there, the friends I had there left the company, and thankfully I followed their example, otherwise I might still be there. There are countless little tiny promotions out there which run the same bullshit, and it's exactly that, bullshit.

 

Now this could maybe all change if everyone came together, but that's about as impossible as impossible is lol. And it's not the promoters' faults, it's the workers for letting it be this way and the promoters are just having their pick and making all the rules and whatever little money there is to be made.

Well, Raven, Kanyon, and Mike Sanders are trying that, with their lawsuit against the WWE's "independent contractor" illegal nonsense. Hopefully that will actually go somewhere.

[dorianb 0]

I hope the Raven lawsuit works, but I have a feeling it won't ultimately, I hope I'm wrong though. The biggest pipe dream is a union, but in the end, a union would be the death of most small indy feds, because there would be no way most indy promoters would be able to pay a universal payment to workers. It would have to be a substantial minimum amount that we would have to be paid, and places would fold really fast. A lot of places have a hard enough time paying the measly amounts they pay now. The only fed that could survive that of course would be WWE and then jobs would be few and far between because they couldn't fire talent for any reason they wanted to.

 

It sucks, but wrestling seems doomed to always be a B.S business to guys who aren't big stars.

[The Truthiness 0]

Pearce era starts tonight...Boom!

[Dobbs 3K 0]

So, how was it?

[DangerousDamon 0]

So, how was it?

Some people love the slight change of pace (shows are shorter, and undercard matches aren't trying to steal the show), however, some people are all up in arms about the 20 count and how there was a countout and a DQ in the Butcher/Nigel match.

[Hawk 34 0]

Gabe booked DQ's and Count-outs before, so this isn't a brand new course of action in ROH. It's not like the main event resulted in a DQ, just a throwaway title match. If the whole show was countouts and dq's, then there is a legit reason for an outcry but not with just one match.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

MORE BACKSTAGE LANDSCAPE CHANGES TO RING OF HONOR

by Mike Johnson

 

New Ring of Honor booker Adam Pearce informed the locker room over the last 24 hours that he would be curtailing his responsibilities when it came to being on the road and in dealing directly with talent due to outside responsibilities with his family and other obligations.

 

Moving forward, Pearce will still be booking but will not be attending ROH's Friday night events. He will fly in from the West Coast and help with the Saturday events. On events Pearce is not backstage for, Austin Aries (who has gained considerable power under the new regime) will be running the ROH locker room.

 

Larry Sweeney has also been tapped as something of a liason between the wrestlers and Pearce in an effort to cut back some of Pearce's time management. In the past, wrestlers would email or call Pearce directly with concerns and suggestions. Now, they will go to Sweeney, who will then report to Pearce. The change is made to take some of the workload off of Pearce's shoulders.

 

I would hope Pearce is eventually able to get back to attending the Friday's shows because it's difficult to book and not be there for things to unfold as you really need to be there to see things develop first hand and react accordingly.

[The Truthiness 0]

I hate too say it, but it seems like ROH is on the verge of shutting down.

[Celtic Guardian 0]

I hate too say it, but it seems like ROH is on the verge of shutting down.

 

I'm not close enough to know if the situation is that dire. That said, a booker insulating himself from outside input is generally not a good idea.

[lee_hero 0]

I have been noticing that they run a whole lot more dvd sales than they used to.

There's almost constantly a huge sale going on in the ROH shop.

 

I really hope that ROH doesn't go under. For 6 years now it's been the saving grace of American wrestling.