Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted February 5, 2009 QB: Peyton Manning (Though Brady, Marino, and Elway are all acceptable choices) RB: Barry Sanders TE: Tony Gonzalez WR: Jerry Rice (Best player at his individual position ever) WR: Marvin Harrison WR: Isaac Bruce OT: Anthony Munoz OG: John Hannah C: Dermotti Dawson OG: Bruce Matthews OT: Art Shell K: Morten Anderson P: Ray Guy KR/PR: Brian Mitchell (For those surprised at Hester not being here, despite being a homer, Hester has averaged over 1000 ret. yds/season, but so did Mitchell. For 14 seasons. I think Hester's best days as a return man are already behind him, sadly) DE: Deacon Jones DE: Bruce Smith DT: Bob Lilly DT: Mean Joe Greene LBs: Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary, Chuck Bednarik CBs: Darrell Green, Rod Woodson Safeties: Paul Krause, Ronnie Lott That's starters. I'll edit in backups if I get around to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 A really solid list. The only thing I would change is Jeter for A-Rod at SS and I would get rid of Pedro and put in Nolan Ryan. Edit: Oh, and take that shitbag Manny out and put in Reggie Jackson. Nolan Ryan is almost certainly the most overrated player in baseball history. He's a Hall of Famer yes, but people put him in their all time rotations. In this case, Ryan never won a Cy Young award in his career. Pedro has three. If you're going to be one of the best ever, shouldn't you have been the best for at least one season? Derek Jeter. He's third among living shortstops with 1,000+ games, but let's take out everyone's decline phase. Jeter falls to fifth in OPS+ up to age 34 behind Rodriguez, Ernie Banks, Garciaparra and Barry Larkin. Cal Ripken and Robin Yount are close enough that defense gives them the edge. So among living shortstops the highest I can comfortably rate Jeter is 8th. As for Manny Ramirez, his teams have made the postseason ten times so I can hardly say his antics are a detriment to his teams' success. If you want a different outfielder though, I suggest Duke Snider who is still alive into his 80s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 I think everyone has jumped on the Nolan Ryan is overrated bandwagon to the point that he might be underrated again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MFer 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 RB: Walter Payton(28) Dead. QB: Joe Montana (1) Get bent. Bah... Edited with LT2 in place of Payton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 I think everyone has jumped on the Nolan Ryan is overrated bandwagon to the point that he might be underrated again Excellent point, Bob. All my life I've heard how overrated Ryan was because of the Ks and no-hitters but lackluster numbers otherwise. Those people do have a point, but he was still an above-average pitcher for more than 20 years with the occasional lights-out performance. Al hit it on the head: good pitcher with HOF credentials, but not one of the all-time greats. Jeter over A-Rod would be a laughable choice. The only thing that Jeter is better at is banging models. Important, yes, but not enough to outweigh the on-the-field stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 I think everyone has jumped on the Nolan Ryan is overrated bandwagon to the point that he might be underrated again Jeter over A-Rod would be a laughable choice. The only thing that A-Rod is better at is banging models. Important,yes, but not enough to outweigh the on-the-field stuff. I think you mean Jeter is better, since Jeter banged Mariah and A-Rod is with Madonna. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Oops, my bad. I'll go back and fix. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MFer 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Starters: PG: Magic Johnson SG: Michael Jordan SF: Larry Bird PF: Bill Russell C: Shaquille O’Neal Reserves: PG: Oscar Robertson SG: Kobe Bryant SG: Jerry West SF: Julius Erving PF: Tim Duncan C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar C: Hakeem Olajuwon Coach: Phil Jackson Hate to leave Isiah off, but 3 point guards seemed like overkill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Julius Erving over Lebron? Really? I know he's young, but there hasn't been anyone like him to do what he's done at this age, except for maybe Kobe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smartly Pretty 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 I think everyone has jumped on the Nolan Ryan is overrated bandwagon to the point that he might be underrated again Excellent point, Bob. All my life I've heard how overrated Ryan was because of the Ks and no-hitters but lackluster numbers otherwise. Those people do have a point, but he was still an above-average pitcher for more than 20 years with the occasional lights-out performance. Al hit it on the head: good pitcher with HOF credentials, but not one of the all-time greats. So who are we, as TSMers, collectively calling the best pitcher ever? Walter Johnson? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 I honestly think Roger Clemens is the greatest pitcher of all time, dead or alive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 I'd go with Pedro Martinez. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smues Report post Posted February 5, 2009 3B: Mike Schmidt So how much of a homer would I be if I tried to argue for Chipper over Mike? Mike has OPS+ by 2 points, and Chipper has him in average, OBP, and slugging. I'm sure Mike was a better fielder (actually have no idea how he was in the field, but I'll just assume) but Chipper also has the advantage of being a switch hitter. So how insane am I? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 I think everyone has jumped on the Nolan Ryan is overrated bandwagon to the point that he might be underrated again Excellent point, Bob. All my life I've heard how overrated Ryan was because of the Ks and no-hitters but lackluster numbers otherwise. Those people do have a point, but he was still an above-average pitcher for more than 20 years with the occasional lights-out performance. Al hit it on the head: good pitcher with HOF credentials, but not one of the all-time greats. So who are we, as TSMers, collectively calling the best pitcher ever? Walter Johnson? My vote's for Mathewson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MFer 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Julius Erving over Lebron? Really? I know he's young, but there hasn't been anyone like him to do what he's done at this age, except for maybe Kobe. I actually had LeBron pegged in Erving's spot, but I changed my mind (part of it due to my biases, but whatever). LeBron would easily be on the roster if it was 15. As for greatest pitcher ever, I think I'd have to go with Clemens as well (not taking into account the whole steroids thing and all). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 So how much of a homer would I be if I tried to argue for Chipper over Mike? Mike has OPS+ by 2 points, and Chipper has him in average, OBP, and slugging. I'm sure Mike was a better fielder (actually have no idea how he was in the field, but I'll just assume) but Chipper also has the advantage of being a switch hitter. So how insane am I? Pretty insane. Schmidt was a more valuable hitter in context. Chipper led the NL once in batting average, once in OBP and once in OPS. Schmidt led three times in OBP, five times in slugging and five times in OPS. Schmidt at one point led the league in OPS four years in a stretch of five. On top of being the best hitter in the NL, Schmidt won ten gold gloves. I think you can make a case for Chipper #2, but Schmidt is pretty clear cut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lt. Al Giardello 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Here is my football starting roster Starting roster: OFFENSE - QB: Dan Marino HB: Jim Brown FB: Lorenzo Neal WR: Jerry Rice WR: Cris Carter TE: Tony Gonzalez OT: Willie Roaf OT: Anthony Muñoz OG: Bruce Matthews OG: John Hannah C: Jim Langer DEFENSE - DE: Bruce Smith DE: Deacon Jones DT: Merlin Olsen DT: Joe Greene LB: Lawrence Taylor LB: Ray Lewis LB: Jack Ham CB: Mel Blount CB: Deion Sanders FS: Larry Wilson SS: Ronnie Lott K: Morten Anderson P: Ray Guy KR/PR: Brian Mitchell Coach: Don Shula Offensive Coordinator: Dan Reeves Defensive Coordinator: Dick LeBeau Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detox 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Frank Thomas over Albert Pujols is pretty funny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Frank Thomas over Albert Pujols is pretty funny. Look at the first half of their careers. Frank Thomas from 1990-1997 was one of the greatest pure hitters of all time. I think Pujols will have a better career, but this is a merit list, not speculative. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 5, 2009 How about greatest living fighters at every weight? Can only be named once... Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali Cruiserweight: Evander Holyfield Light Heavyweight: Bob Foster Super Middleweight: Nigel Benn Middleweight: Marvin Hagler Light Middleweight: Wilfred Benitez Welterweight: Sugar Ray Leonard Junior Welterweight: Julio Cesar Chavez Lightweight: Roberto Duran Super Featherweight: Manny Pacquiao Featherweight: Alexis Arguello Super Bantamweight: Wilfredo Gomez Bantamweight: Eder Jofre Super Flyweight: Johnny Tapia (that guy was fun to watch) Flyweight: There really aren't any. Can't rate what you can't watch. Light Flyweight: Humberto Gonzalez Minimumweight: Ricardo Lopez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wally Balls 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 How about greatest living fighters at every weight? Can only be named once... Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali Cruiserweight: Evander Holyfield Light Heavyweight: Bob Foster Super Middleweight: Nigel Benn Middleweight: Marvin Hagler Light Middleweight: Wilfred Benitez Welterweight: Sugar Ray Leonard Junior Welterweight: Julio Cesar Chavez Lightweight: Roberto Duran Super Featherweight: Manny Pacquiao Featherweight: Alexis Arguello Super Bantamweight: Wilfredo Gomez Bantamweight: Eder Jofre Super Flyweight: Johnny Tapia (that guy was fun to watch) Flyweight: There really aren't any. Can't rate what you can't watch. Light Flyweight: Humberto Gonzalez Minimumweight: Ricardo Lopez No Sugar Ray Robinson? No Pretty Boy Floyd? No Roy Jones Jr? Robinson fought 202 fights, winning 175 of them. Boxing back then probably wasn't as technically sound as it is today, but I still think he's the greatest boxer of all time. Even Ali said it too. Mayweather is an unlikeable fuckface, but the man brings it on fight night. Undefeated in his entire career. Beating De La Hoya, and ending Hatton's own undefeated streak. Roy Jones Jr. was really something special in his prime. I know he's kind of fell off the wagon as of late, but he also won the Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, and Heavyweight championships. He had a pretty impressive unbeaten record as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Robinson's dead. I couldn't do a list in which I named all fighters, dead or alive. Floyd can't be rated in any one weight class, but compared to the fighters I listed in some weight classes, he compares really well when looking at it on those terms. But except for Super Featherweight, it was four or five fights and then move up. At least one of those fights each time was against somebody not too great. Roy, eh, he fought Toney, an overweight Vinny Paz, and a bunch of bums at super middleweight. If they had fought, I'm positive Foster would've won. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wally Balls 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Robinson's dead. I couldn't do a list in which I named all fighters, dead or alive. Floyd can't be rated in any one weight class, but compared to the fighters I listed in some weight classes, he compares really well when looking at it on those terms. But except for Super Featherweight, it was four or five fights and then move up. At least one of those fights each time was against somebody not too great. Roy, eh, he fought Toney, an overweight Vinny Paz, and a bunch of bums at super middleweight. If they had fought, I'm positive Foster would've won. Forgot all about the fact that they had to be alive. My B. It's sad too because I visit this thread quite often now, and apparently I don't see the word "living". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lt. Al Giardello 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali Crusierweight: Evander Holyfield Light Heavyweight: Michael Spinks Super Middleweight: Roy Jones Jr. Middleweight: Bernard Hopkins Light Middleweight: Terry Norris Welterweight: Sugar Ray Leonard Light Welterweight: Aaron Pryor Lightweight: Pernell Whitaker Super Featherweight: Julio César Chávez Featherweight: Azumah Nelson Super Bantamweight: Wilfredo Gomez Bantamweight: Carlos Zarate Super Flyweight: Khaosai Galaxy Flyweight: Mark Johnson Light Flyweight: Michael Carbajal Minimumweight: Ricardo Lopez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Good list 909. I'd put Michael Spinks at light heavyweight, Jones at Super Middleweight and Mayweather at super featherweight. Mark Johnson at flyweight, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted February 5, 2009 I forgot about Too Sharp. He would be in my list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detox 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2009 Frank Thomas over Albert Pujols is pretty funny. Look at the first half of their careers. Frank Thomas from 1990-1997 was one of the greatest pure hitters of all time. I think Pujols will have a better career, but this is a merit list, not speculative. I can agree with that argument, but there are so many more statistics these days that Pujols seems to prosper in, OPS being the main one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wally Balls 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2009 NBA: Starters PG. Chris Paul SG. Michael Jordan SF. Lebron James PF. Kevin Garnett C. Dwight Howard Reserves PG. Steve Nash SG. Reggie Miller SF. Scottie Pippen PF. Tim Duncan C. Shaq Larry Bird and Magic Johnson filling out the roster. Phil Jackson as coach. I'm guessing that you are a younger guy, as your list reflects that. My NBA team would be: Starters PG. Magic Johnson SG. Michael Jordan SF. Larry Bird PF. Tim Duncan C. Bill Russell Reserves PG. Isiah Thomas SG. Kobe SF. LeBron James SF. Scottie Pippen PF. Karl Malone PF. Kevin Garnett C. Shaq Leaving Olajuwon off hurts, but I think overall I'd like to have Shaq as the back up center. Everyone leaving Isiah off their lists is criminal. Chris Paul may get there someday, but he's not in Zeke's league yet. Yeah, I'm 21 so I didn't get to actually see a lot of these great players play. I do think theres a popular misconception that past players are automatically better than present players. I don't think it would be a stretch to call Lebron one of the top 3 greatest players of all time just based on what he's done in 4 years. There are probably better choices than Dwight Howard for my starting center, but just seeing how he's played this season kind of impaired my judgement a little bit. Shaq is most certainly a more dominating presence, but Howard is certainly more athletic and really something special too. Good list though. I chose Reggie Miller over Kobe just for the sheer fact that Reggie Miller made threes all day long. Kobe is the all around better ball player, but just watching Miller in the 90's when I was a kid made that enough for me to pick him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Baron 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2009 I'll do a hockey one, and I tried to do the best with positions and have been throwing different ideas and combinations. Top line. Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemiuex and Gordie Howe. Second line. Sidney Crosby, Phil Esposito and Glenn Anderson Checking Line Pavel Datsyuk, Bob Gainey and Claude Lemieux (I'm gonna get flack for Lemieux) Fourth Line (just throwing names out here) Alexander Ovechkin, Bobby Hull, Yvan Cournyver Defence: Serge Savard, Bobby Orr Paul Coffey, Nicklas Lidstrom Larry Robinson, Dennis Potvin Goalies Dominik Hasek Ken Dryden Martin Brodeur Coach Scotty Bowman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianGuitarist 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2009 No fucking Ray Bourque on defence? Nothin else to see here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
