National Security & Defense

[909 0]

We simply cannot compete at the moment. We do not have the manpower nor the resources.

 

This is, frankly, absurd. The US outspends Russia militarily greater than 10 to 1. Let me say that again, TEN TO ONE. We also have have more active duty troops and close to as many total troops, not to mention that our troops have superior training and are way better equipped. I could go into our staggering naval and airpower advantages, but I believe I've made my point.

Let me explain what I said, although that was admittedly a dumb statement. We are stretched on two fronts at the moment, morale is low, and our populace, by and large, has minimal to no interest in adding another front to the fold. Our allies in Europe aren't necessarily as willing to allow us to compete in a dickwaving contest with the Russians. They need their gas and Russia can cut it off whenever they please.

 

A sizable (not saying large) portion of our military budget is waste, and were we to be drawn into a long, drawn out conflict with a large military, we would need to streamline and cut out the excess. I'm meaning to say that unfortunately some of that budget number is junk. I also have a hard time believing that Russia's budget number is actually that small.

 

Yes, clearly, were we to pull back from those fronts, we have an advantage, and without it we also have a large advantage. Add NATO into the equation and it is even more so.

 

With respect to Russia's meddling in the Western hemisphere and military buildup, I basically consider them a gnat on America's ass. They've been hit as hard as anyone by the global economic crisis and low gas & oil prices. I basically see all of this as posturing designed to distract from their serious domestic problems.

yes

 

 

One last thing, how are we supposed to normalize relations with Cuba when they're interested in strengthening military ties with Russia? Perhaps taking that step with Cuba is a good idea so as to assure that this Cuban-Russian relationship doesn't get taken to a point at which we start making demands of Cuba over a possible Russian problem when we could have had things a lot easier.

[At Home 0]

They need their gas and Russia can cut it off whenever they please.

 

But that'll never happen, it'll crush their economy. Same goes for a lot of the Middle Eastern countries. As far as I know, their economies are too specialized in energy to even consider risking just cutting off supplies.

[909 0]

They have already used that tactic against Ukraine, as I'm sure you know. I do think they would use that tactic against our allies in Eastern Europe to keep us from accomplishing any sort of goal there that would be more beneficial to the United States than it would be to them.

 

Would they do that to Western Europe though? Nope. Maybe reduce deliveries. Not stop them.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Hey, just wanted to say good points all around, King.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

They have already used that tactic against Ukraine, as I'm sure you know. I do think they would use that tactic against our allies in Eastern Europe to keep us from accomplishing any sort of goal there that would be more beneficial to the United States than it would be to them.

 

Would they do that to Western Europe though? Nope. Maybe reduce deliveries. Not stop them.

 

Can't speak for the rest of Europe, but the UK gets less then 25% of its gas from Russia. So if Russia was to cut its supply, we'd still be 'ok' - though probably face a price hike in home heating prices. I think Russia will only use this tactic against Western Europe, where they still fear Russia, in an attempt to make them come crawling back.

 

Is Russia regrowing its Army and Military Fist? More then likely. Over the last 5 years they've slowly become more promiment in the news for various things - Space Exploration, War, Public Shots of their Prime Minister guy, civil war, political unrest and upheaval. About 3 years ago they kept running fake 'bombing' runs towards the UK, prompting Norway and the RAF to send out Tornadoes to 'guide' the Russian Bombers back to Russian airspace. So I wouldn't be surprised if more political mind and war games happened.

 

Last year had the Canada v Russia comedy 'war' over the oil under the ice caps.

 

Russia want to be noticed again and with the way things are going it'll happen more and more.

[zhangmeijie 0]

They have already used that tactic against Ukraine, as I'm sure you know. I do think they would use that tactic against our allies in Eastern Europe to keep us from accomplishing any sort of goal there that would be more beneficial to the United States than it would be to them.

 

Would they do that to Western Europe though? Nope. Maybe reduce deliveries. Not stop them.

 

Can't speak for the rest of Europe, but the UK gets less then 25% of its gas from Russia. So if Russia was to cut its supply, we'd still be 'ok' - though probably face a price hike in home heating prices. I think Russia will only use this tactic against Western Europe, where they still fear Russia, in an attempt to make them come crawling back.

 

Is Russia regrowing its Army and Military Fist? More then likely. Over the last 5 years they've slowly become more promiment in the news for various things - Space Exploration, War, Public Shots of their Prime Minister guy, civil war, political unrest and upheaval. About 3 years ago they kept running fake 'bombing' runs towards the UK, prompting Norway and the RAF to send out Tornadoes to 'guide' the Russian Bombers back to Russian airspace. So I wouldn't be surprised if more political mind and war games happened.

 

Last year had the Canada v Russia comedy 'war' over the oil under the ice caps.

 

Russia want to be noticed again and with the way things are going it'll happen more and more.

 

To address the very last line. Communist countries always want to be noticed, either in a good way or bad. I know that from living in one.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Well, I wasn't talking about it that way, but fair enough.

 

Russia was a Superpower for most of the modern era, then in the 90s the 'disappeared' and the country went backwards. What better way to regain their 'control' and 'status' then to triumph over smaller countries with their new and revamped military.

 

In terms of China wanting to be noticed, I'm not sure. The impression I get from China is a distancing from the rest of the world. They just want to do their own thing, and if people try and intervene then they'll show their teeth. They don't seemingly impose themselves like Russia has towards the other world's powers. Of course, China has imposed itself on those countries around it as well.

[zhangmeijie 0]

Well, I wasn't talking about it that way, but fair enough.

 

Russia was a Superpower for most of the modern era, then in the 90s the 'disappeared' and the country went backwards. What better way to regain their 'control' and 'status' then to triumph over smaller countries with their new and revamped military.

 

In terms of China wanting to be noticed, I'm not sure. The impression I get from China is a distancing from the rest of the world. They just want to do their own thing, and if people try and intervene then they'll show their teeth. They don't seemingly impose themselves like Russia has towards the other world's powers. Of course, China has imposed itself on those countries around it as well.

We do impose ourselves, just in a different way. A good way, sort of. We impose ourselves and want to be noticed with our exports. Look at anything close to you and chances are it was made in China. Actually yes we do tend to be distant and do our own thing for the most part though. I agree with your views on Russia.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

I wouldn't say exporting goods was imposing yourself onto another country, since those goods have been contracted and then imported in knowingly by the companies within the country. China hasn't threatened to cut off oil/gas supplies to countries within the EU, it hasn't flown mock bombing raids on any major Super Power country.

[zhangmeijie 0]

I wouldn't say exporting goods was imposing yourself onto another country, since those goods have been contracted and then imported in knowingly by the companies within the country. China hasn't threatened to cut off oil/gas supplies to countries within the EU, it hasn't flown mock bombing raids on any major Super Power country.

Ok maybe imposing wasn't the best way to put it. Maybe it would be better to say we get noticed by doing so.

 

Oh read this and look at the paper and then think about your view on Chinese goverment...

 

It's a mock paper created by a well known Chinese newspaper and endorsed by the goverment, all be it endorsed as a joke.

 

The main headline at the upper left, above the mushroom cloud, reads: “China Successfully Tests new Type of Nuclear Bomb on San Francisco.”

 

Next to it in the top middle of the page: “United Nations HQ Moves to Beijing.”…

 

At top right, the headline reads: “Premier Wen Jiabao accompanied by Gov. Ma Ying-jeou pays a visit to Taiwan.” (In other words, Taiwan has already been absorbed into China.)

 

At lower right, under the NBA logo, is the headline: “Yao Ming recovers from injury, helps Rockets with championship.”

 

Smaller headlines lower on the page read:

 

“Chinese government Apologizes for Accidental Bombing of Pentagon.”

 

“Dalai Lama is Shot and Killed.”

 

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Doesn't seem any different to other far right racist/radical created newszines to be fair. With it only being released within China too, how does that impose on other countries? If they were to litter those across the globe then maybe then they'd be a slight case for invoking underground unrest and uprising of the Asian Communities or whatever (and even that is far far fetched) but it won't. As its only targetted internally within China, so its not even propaganda that would affect other countries - or at least ones that can't read Chinese.

[At Home 0]

Well, I wasn't talking about it that way, but fair enough.

 

Russia was a Superpower for most of the modern era, then in the 90s the 'disappeared' and the country went backwards. What better way to regain their 'control' and 'status' then to triumph over smaller countries with their new and revamped military.

 

In terms of China wanting to be noticed, I'm not sure. The impression I get from China is a distancing from the rest of the world. They just want to do their own thing, and if people try and intervene then they'll show their teeth. They don't seemingly impose themselves like Russia has towards the other world's powers. Of course, China has imposed itself on those countries around it as well.

 

I don't buy that for a second. China invests in other countries faster than most countries on Earth. Their influence is monetary, not militaristic.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Was just about to comment on the monetary side of it. As China came out this week and said that world currency should no longer be measured by US Dollar, but rather... Chinese Yen. Now that's a bold move.

[zhangmeijie 0]

Was just about to comment on the monetary side of it. As China came out this week and said that world currency should no longer be measured by US Dollar, but rather... Chinese Yen. Now that's a bold move.

To be honest I think it should be measured by both.

[Hitler Cubano 0]

At lower right, under the NBA logo, is the headline: “Yao Ming recovers from injury, helps Rockets with championship.”

hahaha, now that's just silly.

[zhangmeijie 0]

At lower right, under the NBA logo, is the headline: “Yao Ming recovers from injury, helps Rockets with championship.”

hahaha, now that's just silly.

I am not familiar with Mr Ming, is he a good or average player?

[Hitler Cubano 0]

He's good, I was just being ironic considering which headline I picked as preposterous.

 

He does get injured a lot, though.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Was just about to comment on the monetary side of it. As China came out this week and said that world currency should no longer be measured by US Dollar, but rather... Chinese Yen. Now that's a bold move.

To be honest I think it should be measured by both.

 

How would that work?

[zhangmeijie 0]

Was just about to comment on the monetary side of it. As China came out this week and said that world currency should no longer be measured by US Dollar, but rather... Chinese Yen. Now that's a bold move.

To be honest I think it should be measured by both.

 

How would that work?

I don't know how it would work exactly, I was just trying to throw an idea around. Since China's economy pretty much effects the world, shouldn't China's economy be (one of) the yardstick(s) which to measure by?

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Was just about to comment on the monetary side of it. As China came out this week and said that world currency should no longer be measured by US Dollar, but rather... Chinese Yen. Now that's a bold move.

To be honest I think it should be measured by both.

 

How would that work?

I don't know how it would work exactly, I was just trying to throw an idea around. Since China's economy pretty much effects the world, shouldn't China's economy be (one of) the yardstick(s) which to measure by?

Explain, please? Surely the fact that the world's economy was so tied up in the US Dollar is the reason most of the world has been affected by this fucking 'credit crunch' bullshit. Fucking greedy Americans.

[zhangmeijie 0]

Was just about to comment on the monetary side of it. As China came out this week and said that world currency should no longer be measured by US Dollar, but rather... Chinese Yen. Now that's a bold move.

To be honest I think it should be measured by both.

 

How would that work?

I don't know how it would work exactly, I was just trying to throw an idea around. Since China's economy pretty much effects the world, shouldn't China's economy be (one of) the yardstick(s) which to measure by?

Explain, please? Surely the fact that the world's economy was so tied up in the US Dollar is the reason most of the world has been affected by this fucking 'credit crunch' bullshit. Fucking greedy Americans.

Well monetary experts say that China's money is so tied up in the rest of the world, and so influential (or vice versa?) that if China's economy collapsed it would pretty much take the rest of the world's economy with it. So while the worlds economy may be tied up in the US dollar, well not may be it is, it is also tied up in the Chinese RMB. AKA Yuan.

 

Point of fact For the first time in history, China contributed, and therefore effected, more to world economic growth in 2008 than the United States, the International Monetary Fund reported. So last year When the RMB was strong the economy was strong. This year the RMB has weakened. So it was that as well as, if not even more than, the US dollar's value which created the global economy crisis

[EricMM 0]

Well the US economy is still 10x the size of China's if I heard right.

 

China just isn't as big as the US, still. Their economy is certainly one of the most important, but its not the most important.

[zhangmeijie 0]

Well the US economy is still 10x the size of China's if I heard right.

 

China just isn't as big as the US, still. Their economy is certainly one of the most important, but its not the most important.

Overall it's not the most important no. However 8.7% was the chinese growth in 2008. China is now the largest holder of U.S. Treasuries by the way. So much so that the American goverment are scared that China will stop buying into the treasuries.

 

Quote from A couple of people a while back.

China is the first holder of US bonds. China owns so many US bonds, there is fear that if they stop buying them, the US economy would collapse. The bonds issue further links the US and China economies so tightly that both fear the consequences of a potential slow down in China's purchase of those bonds. In her visit to China, US State Secretary Hillary Clinton called on authorities in Beijing to continue buying US Treasuries, saying it would help jumpstart the flagging US economy and stimulate imports of Chinese goods.

 

As the economy meltdown continues, more doubts arise over the real value of US treasury. Though carefully worded, Chinese premier Wen Jia Bao's warning about possible devaluation of Chinese held US bonds was taken very seriously by Washington:

 

"Of course we are concerned about the safety of our assets. To be honest, I'm a little bit worried," Wen said at a news conference Friday after the closing of China's annual legislative session. "I would like to call on the United States to honor its words, stay a credible nation and ensure the safety of Chinese assets

 

We did stop buying them and this is one of the reasons the economy is collapsing.

 

So bacically this brings me back to my point a few post's back if China's economy collapses, it takes the US economy and therefore the world economy with it.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

morale is low

 

i don't have much to add to the thread because i'm so late into the conversation, but that's utter bullshit, by the way.

 

recruiting has never been higher, and if you talk to nearly anyone out there, morale is fine.

[cbacon 0]

Is Russia a potential threat to US security? How should the US respond to these seemingly aggressive actions by the Ruskies, if at all? How gangsta is Vlad Putin?

 

The problem is that the US pledged during the breakup of the Soviet Union that they wouldn't extend NATO into the East Bloc and that they're are still treating Russia as if it were the Soviet Union and an ideologue enemy. There is no real reason to view Russia as a enemy moreso than a country like Georgia, which is also autocratic and corrupt in comparison to the west. After all the shit America has tried to pull on Russia (missle shield, NATO membership to half the Eastern bloc, dismissing their government as autocratic, supporting every anti-russian government/politican in the Eastern Bloc no matter how crazy and corrupt he is, etc.), it's not a surprise that Russia didn't establish itself as a bigger regional player earlier.

[Art Sandusky 0]

morale is low

 

i don't have much to add to the thread because i'm so late into the conversation, but that's utter bullshit, by the way.

 

recruiting has never been higher, and if you talk to nearly anyone out there, morale is fine.

You can attribute some of this to enlisting in the armed services as a recession/depression (please don't let this get to the latter) - proof job. Yes morale is high, but that's the logical consequence of having a volunteer-only Army/Navy/whatever. Again, I want the draft to be re-institututed and I felt that way before I started the enlistment process for myself.

 

As far as geopolitics go, China's the big one, with Russia being the smaller one. Both must be monitored. The next new American military action that I foresee will actually be in East Africa (yes, again), in Sudan this time.

[zhangmeijie 0]

morale is low

 

i don't have much to add to the thread because i'm so late into the conversation, but that's utter bullshit, by the way.

 

recruiting has never been higher, and if you talk to nearly anyone out there, morale is fine.

You can attribute some of this to enlisting in the armed services as a recession/depression (please don't let this get to the latter) - proof job. Yes morale is high, but that's the logical consequence of having a volunteer-only Army/Navy/whatever. Again, I want the draft to be re-institututed and I felt that way before I started the enlistment process for myself.

 

As far as geopolitics go, China's the big one, with Russia being the smaller one. Both must be monitored. The next new American military action that I foresee will actually be in East Africa (yes, again), in Sudan this time.

I agree that the Chinese goverment must be monitored. There is a but though, our goverment is not ideal nor it is exactly corrupt though. They do many good things, it's just they sometimes do some really, really stupid things.

[Nightwing 0]

morale is low

 

i don't have much to add to the thread because i'm so late into the conversation, but that's utter bullshit, by the way.

 

recruiting has never been higher, and if you talk to nearly anyone out there, morale is fine.

You can attribute some of this to enlisting in the armed services as a recession/depression (please don't let this get to the latter) - proof job. Yes morale is high, but that's the logical consequence of having a volunteer-only Army/Navy/whatever. Again, I want the draft to be re-institututed and I felt that way before I started the enlistment process for myself.

 

No one wants a draft. Drafted troops are inevitably of lower morale (as you point out) and poorer quality (You don't fight as well because you don't want to be there). What logical reason would there be to reinstitute the draft when it always yields worse results than all-volunteer forces?

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

i don't want to speak for him, but the fact that we have no national service initiatives is a travesty. certainly not everyone is going to be cut out to be a killing machine, but service of some sort should definitely be mandatory. morale wouldn't suffer so much if we actually bothered instilling a sense of national pride in our younger generations.

 

wow, i sound like a huge republican there.

[Nightwing 0]

Oh, I completely agree. But at least you have a choice of where you'll do your service. A random draft would hurt our military far more than it would help it (if at all).