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UFC 95 Sanchez vs. Stevenson, February 21 - FREE on Spike
Lt. Al Giardello
post Feb 22 2009, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE (HollywoodSpikeJenkins @ Feb 22 2009, 08:56 PM) *
I hope to god we get Diego vs. Kyle Bradley next and he goes Joe Riggs on his ass.


10 bucks says Guida Vs. Sanchez is going to be the next fight... Atleast if ZUFFA was smart, it makes the most sense.
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Your Paragon of ...
post Feb 22 2009, 09:08 PM
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He looks so awkward (which he did at 170 too) and he looks so frail compared to before. He lost a lot of muscle. He needs to do a better cut next time.
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HollywoodSpikeJe...
post Feb 22 2009, 09:09 PM
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How about Joe Lauzon? That would be an interesting match-up and a good test of Diego's ability at 155. I think putting him straight into "lets hug it out" Clay Guida's arms will only bring disastrous results.
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Your Paragon of ...
post Feb 22 2009, 09:10 PM
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He has the guard to fuck Guida's shit up though.
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HollywoodSpikeJe...
post Feb 22 2009, 09:10 PM
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We said that about Nate, too.
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Your Paragon of ...
post Feb 22 2009, 09:12 PM
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I didn't, Sanchez and Diaz are on different levels when it comes to BJJ. I'm not saying it wouldn't be competitive, just that it wouldn't be disastrous for Sanchez in terms of getting laid on. If Guida wins he'll have to work to stay out of submissions and sweeps the whole time.
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Lt. Al Giardello
post Feb 22 2009, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (Your Paragon of Virtue @ Feb 22 2009, 11:12 PM) *
I didn't, Sanchez and Diaz are on different levels when it comes to BJJ. I'm not saying it wouldn't be competitive, just that it wouldn't be disastrous for Sanchez in terms of getting laid on. If Guida wins he'll have to work to stay out of submissions and sweeps the whole time.


Yeah no doubt bro. I thought Guida was going to beat Diaz, because he can atleast keep Diaz on his back. Against Sanchez, his sweeps are much better then Diaz's, but it's almost impossible to lay on Sanchez. Even in the Stevenson fight, not once could Joe put Diego on his back for 5 seconds. And Joe's wrestling is very good at 155... Guida's isn't that much better.
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HollywoodSpikeJe...
post Feb 22 2009, 09:32 PM
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I don't think Diego looked that good in his debut to be put against another top 155 pounder, especially Guida. Maybe another 155er who is about to break out, like Lauzon, Neer or Huerta (hey, he has one last fight left).

Putting him in there against bigger 155 guys with good wrestling is a bad idea.
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Lt. Al Giardello
post Feb 22 2009, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (HollywoodSpikeJenkins @ Feb 22 2009, 11:32 PM) *
I don't think Diego looked that good in his debut to be put against another top 155 pounder, especially Guida. Maybe another 155er who is about to break out, like Lauzon, Neer or Huerta (hey, he has one last fight left).

Putting him in there against bigger 155 guys with good wrestling is a bad idea.


I would take Stevenson over Guida...
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Lei Tong
post Feb 22 2009, 09:55 PM
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If nothing else, Guida would at least force Diego to exert himself, and not simply stand around, grinning like a homosexual elf while getting outboxed.
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HollywoodSpikeJe...
post Feb 22 2009, 09:58 PM
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Stevenson is ranked (barely) higher than Guida, but Guida is still a highly-ranked 155er. It just seems like a bad style match-up for Diego.
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Lord of The Curr...
post Feb 22 2009, 11:21 PM
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Where exactly is Guida highly ranked? I mean, I love the dude but his last two victories have essentially been out-wrestling and out-working opponents via better cardio. I doubt Guida would make anybody's top fifteen, maybe lower ends of the top twenty.
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AmericanDragon
post Feb 22 2009, 11:42 PM
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YUS

(IMG:http://webpages.charter.net/gline/diego-wtf-juggo.gif)
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Mik
post Feb 23 2009, 08:18 AM
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I still think that Koscheck got robbed a bit. No doubt he got rocked but it looked to me that he was in the process of pulling guard when it got stopped.

As for Diego - I think you guys should relax. Let's give him a time or two more to get used to cutting 35 pounds before we proclaim this a bad move. He didn't look amazing on Saturday but he also hurt his hand in the first round. I also think he'd lose to Florian, Penn, and probably Sherk now. But Maynard and Edgar? I don't think I agree with that. It's irrelevant anyway because no way they are going to put Diego in with guys like that. His next fight will probably either be Sherk or Huerta and if he wins he'll be in the Florian/Penn range.

Diego is too big a name to throw in with Gray Maynard right now.
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Lei Tong
post Feb 23 2009, 11:17 AM
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Am I missing how Edgar is somehow not on Diego's level? Even at his best, Diego's wrestling is nowhere near Edgar's, and Frankie's also a far superior technical boxer. It's simply a terrible style-match-up for Diego, regardless of disparity in experience.
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Lord of The Curr...
post Feb 23 2009, 11:29 AM
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No, I think Edgar would beat Diego too. Not a dominating victory but he's got the tools to win for sure.
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HollywoodSpikeJe...
post Feb 23 2009, 11:45 AM
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His cardio doesn't really separate him from Sherk or Guida.
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Lt. Al Giardello
post Feb 23 2009, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE (ViciousFish @ Feb 23 2009, 02:01 PM) *
True but cardio is really all Diego has. He's got average everything. He's got cardio and the fact he's the first TUF winner.


He doesn't have average BJJ. He has some of the best grappling for MMA, he doesn't need an elite wrestling pedigree.
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Lt. Al Giardello
post Feb 23 2009, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE (ViciousFish @ Feb 23 2009, 01:21 PM) *
Then why doesn't he use it?


He does... How do you think he beat talented grapplers like Nick Diaz, Karo Parisyan, and Jorge Santiago. He decided to stand and trade with Joe Stevenson, and all of the sudden he doesn't use his BJJ no more? Fuck outta here.
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Lei Tong
post Feb 23 2009, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE (Brother Mouzone @ Feb 23 2009, 10:19 AM) *
QUOTE (ViciousFish @ Feb 23 2009, 02:01 PM) *
True but cardio is really all Diego has. He's got average everything. He's got cardio and the fact he's the first TUF winner.


He doesn't have average BJJ. He has some of the best grappling for MMA, he doesn't need an elite wrestling pedigree.


Right and wrong. His BJJ is definitely very good, especially his scrambling, but it's easy to forget that the dude hasn't submitted anyone in FOREVER, and his G&P isn't on the level where's he's going to be punishing high level fighters within moments on the mat. And then there's his wrestling, which still hasn't involved far beyond shitty bull-charges that have always been and will continue to be stuffed by good wrestlers. Minus the cardio to keep hurling himself at his opponents no matter how often he fails to take them down or lock a submission, he becomes a very average attrition fighter.
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Hawkius Maximus
post Feb 23 2009, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE (ViciousFish @ Feb 23 2009, 10:31 AM) *
He stood and "banged" against Kos, he actually used his BJJ against Fitch because he was forced to and his last 3 fights have been him standing up (except the finish against Bielkedin who he G&P'd) and having a shitty kick boxing match.


You can't use the Koscheck fight against Diego. Koscheck's entire gameplan was to avoid the ground. If a better wrestler decides he wants to avoid the ground, and he's not a moron, you won't go to the ground.

When that fight did hit the ground, Diego near immediately put Koscheck in a bad situation and was teetering on the verge of a possible submission attempt. Koscheck didn't even let Diego get the thought of it after that.

Plus, wasn't Diego VERY sick with a staph infection that he was hospitalized for?

Diego tried to use ground work against Fitch, but Fitch more or less just held him down and punched him every so often to keep it from being stood up. Fitch was just stronger, and a better wrestler. All there really was to that fight.
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HollywoodSpikeJe...
post Feb 23 2009, 03:18 PM
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When in the hell, during that entire 15 minutes of suck, did Diego/Koscheck go to the ground? When Diego hopped on Koscheck's back for 2.7 seconds to finish off the first round?

If Koschecks game plan was to avoid the ground, Diego's game plan was to avoid a fight altogether.
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Lord of The Curr...
post Feb 23 2009, 03:49 PM
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Hawk's point was that even though Koscheck took Diego down it took Diego no time flat to sweep and get Koscheck's back which forced Koscheck to keep the fight standing and jab away at Diego for another 10 minutes because he knew he'd get taken out if they went back to the mat.
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The Niggardly Ki...
post Feb 23 2009, 03:55 PM
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there's only one logical match to make now, and it's Clay/Diego
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Hawkius Maximus
post Feb 24 2009, 01:28 AM
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QUOTE (Lord of The Curry @ Feb 23 2009, 01:49 PM) *
Hawk's point was that even though Koscheck took Diego down it took Diego no time flat to sweep and get Koscheck's back which forced Koscheck to keep the fight standing and jab away at Diego for another 10 minutes because he knew he'd get taken out if they went back to the mat.


And that's exactly it. Much appreciated.

If you want to attack Diego's stand up in that fight, by all means, but when he got the chance on the ground he pretty promptly outworked Koscheck. Koscheck just didn't give him a chance after that. Why Diego didn't shoot in more, I'm not sure other then he may have felt that it would be a waste of energy given Koscheck's superior wrestling. But then again, he was beaten by said jab standing either way.

I personally wasn't impressed by either man. Joe Stevenson doesn't do much for me. I think he's adequately skilled, but he gets by with what he has and grappling power. That's probably why he works so well with a Guillotine. He hopes the opponent lets it in there, and then just uses his raw power to secure it. Plus, he's been clearly shown to not be on the level of the top two in the division. Not being able to finish Joe is kind of a red alert that you aren't at that top level. Sad but true.

Diego showed off some good skills, but it more or less seemed that him occasionally working a kick or knee in there so utterly baffled Stevenson that Diego could pull off the same combo over and over. It also helped that Stevenson was exposed as one dimensional standing and if he couldn't land strong shots with his fists, he had nothing else. Diego looked like he had sacrificed any punching power he had with the cut, which could just be a side effect of the first cut, or an example of why you shouldn't cut thirty plus goddamn pounds.

I'm getting REALLY tired of this weight cutting stuff, and it only seems to be getting worse. It really seemed to be a guy cutting maybe ten/fifteen to get from say...220 to 205. Now we've got guys that can naturally fight at 205 cutting down to 170 (...barely...), and Diego fought in UFC originally at 185. He cut to 155. And he apparently walks around at or above 190. It's infuckingsane. Eventually, someone's going to try to do a massive cut and either through their own stupidity or their body shutting down, is going to be seriously hurt or die from it.

They need to just start weighing in people the day of events. Whatever you naturally walk around at, is what you should fight at. And if you need to cut to fall into a weightclass, then train your body to maintain it. If not, then you have *NO* business being in that weightclass. If you are stupid enough to cut 30 pounds right before a fight, then you deserve to get your ass beaten in a fight. None of this weigh in at 170 fight at 190+ bullshit.
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The Niggardly Ki...
post Feb 24 2009, 03:07 AM
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QUOTE
Eventually, someone's going to try to do a massive cut and either through their own stupidity or their body shutting down, is going to be seriously hurt or die from it. They need to just start weighing in people the day of events. Whatever you naturally walk around at, is what you should fight at.


Does Thiago Alves still walk around at 220?
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Lei Tong
post Feb 24 2009, 05:00 AM
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I don't think placing weigh-ins on the day of the fight would actually curb weight cutting as much as you'd think. You'd just end up with guys cutting not quite as much weight, but showing up to a fight that much more drained from dehydrating themselves. A lot of fighters will generally risk personal safety as a cost of winning; I mean, they're fighters.
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