justcoz

It's a work meant to be fool the net fans into thinking it's a shoot. It's the way the people behind wwe.com like to do things now and I happen to enjoy it. I like to think that something is going on internally and that maybe Shane and the people at wwe.com are intionally countering the booking of the television product by doing things like this, Bret Hart's Byte This appearance, the Matt/Lita angle, the interviews when talent leaves/even fired, etc. My prediction: Since WWE had to tone down the push for getting people on the internet during Raw commericals with Raw Unlimited, due to USA not being happy, they will somehow put Smackdown on the internet live on Tuesday nights, giving a middle finger to UPN for the Friday night time slot and setting themselves up in the event UPN gives Smackdown the axe.

I think the media would be intrigued by an Olympic gold medalist and a spoiled arrogant NFL player having a face off. It would probably serve Cena better in the long run however.

Well, when every other PPV is headlined by guys who aren't wrestlers, then yes, WCW deservingly became a punchline but for every Kevin Green and Jay Leno there is a Mike Tyson and Mr. T who actually did generate interest in the product. LT worked on some level as well. Besides, WWE is pretty much a mirror of bad WCW these days anyway. So what could it hurt to have Terrell Owens show up for a one shot deal where he has a face off with someone like Angle or Cena that gets mainstream press coverage? Even if he doesn't actually wrestle a match.

LOL, this is what happens when you post with a good buzz from a Friday night. You think about wrestling even when it's unintentional and you come up with warped ideas.

fair enough

Terrell Owens is out of work. There is a hype machine. If you were Vince McMahon, would you consider offering money to wrestle... at at least... a one shot appearance on RAW to bring people over from MNF? Wrestling may be a long shot because I'm sure he wouldn't want to risk injury but if you put him in there with someone like Kurt Angle, someone that could train him and walk him through the match, would it be something you'd order on PPV or something that could spark a mainstream interest in the product? Is Angle the right guy to match him up with or would you go the Cena route? Would this be something NBC would want for a Saturday Night Main Event? Discuss...

Exactly, when I first mentioned Christian, Jericho and Benoit leaving WWE, my uncle, a casual fan who just wants an interesting product again, immediately said, "TNA's Outsiders". There is enough of a cool factor between Jericho and Christian and a respect factor with Benoit for this to get over huge and possibly respark a promotional rivalry.

I hope Droz can fill Todd Grisham in as to who Bret the Hitman Hart is.

Vince and company used the IWC very much when they were on the losing end of the Monday night wars. McMahon and even Vince Russo were available for AOL chats on several occassions and answered questions from the IWC. Imagine Vince sitting down and fielding questions from the IWC today?

Yeah, seriously, the Joey Styles thing is completely it's own topic beyond Taboo Tuesday. And Joey looks like the fuckin' man in that photo! I don't know if a Jeremy Piven on Entourage look-a-like tops that Dean Cain look-a-like appearance that Kevin Dunn apparently hired Todd Grisham for (????) but we'll see. Would be funny if Joey turned them down though. I've long said that Joey Styles is the future voice of this company but it will be increasingly difficult to convincingly call the garbage that is put on our television sets ever week. I can't see him not shitting on someone like Chris Masters on commentary. I can see him making people like Shelton Benjamin look like superstars though and calling a classic HBK/Angle match. The plus side is that they finally realized that Coach just ain't gonna cut it!

Matt Hardy Gregory Helms Chris Sabin (i think Vince would grab him if they raided TNA, don't know why)

Also, since this is a WWE forum, there is no way that you can positively spin a rating going from 4.4 or 4.7 to a 3.7 in two weeks. It's obviously just not us lame critical smart fans who have a problem with WWE's product. They need to just plan for Smackdown to be gone within the next year and open up the talent base able to work on Raw to keep storylines and faces fresh.

The time slot did work "in the long run" because it was trouncing WWE for quite some time (83 weeks) and it was still competitive against it. What didn't work was the shitty direction and quality of the show that killed the show and promotion Not the time slot. TNA doesn't have the fanbase to compete head to head anyways. Realistically, it needs another year at the least to develop a sizeable fanbase for that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Keep CSI as the 8pm lead-in, I guess. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Umm, people who watch CSI aren't the same crowd who watch wrestling. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ummm.... I realize this but why forsake the one program in your prime time lineup that generates anywhere from a 1.5 to 2.2 on a given night for a wrestling program that may only pop a 0.5 or 0.8? No, they aren't the same audience but that doesn't mean a few people wouldn't stick around for a bit, I'm sure that happened when Raw ran after CSI. And yes, no casual fans are watching TNA and more than likely that combined 1.3 is a lot of smart fans. This would be a way to perhaps bring a few casual fans on board. If Spike wants TNA to succeed like it's been reported then they have to take chances here and there to build a fan base. These will only be repeats of the Saturday night shows with the purpose of building interest in the PPV and hopefully catching a few Raw or MNF people flicking stations and possibly seeking out TNA elsewhere on Spike's schedule if they like what they see.

The time slot did work "in the long run" because it was trouncing WWE for quite some time (83 weeks) and it was still competitive against it. What didn't work was the shitty direction and quality of the show that killed the show and promotion Not the time slot. TNA doesn't have the fanbase to compete head to head anyways. Realistically, it needs another year at the least to develop a sizeable fanbase for that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I see nothing wrong with Spike experimenting however. For instance, leading into a TNA PPV, hype something like Bound For Glory Monday where they broadcast three episodes of TNA Impact from 9pm until 12am. Keep CSI as the 8pm lead-in, I guess. WWE will go on earlier if competition decides to start at 8pm. How late would they be willing to go and how many Rock movies can USA run at 11:05? No, they aren't going to be pulling in 2's or 3's but there has been at least a 1.3 combined audience there for Saturday and Monday's rerun. Not a whole lot different than what UFC is doing on Mondays.

He has the "it" factor. There was hardly anything spectacular about a raised eyebrow and an elbow drop either and I remember people saying those were lame but it got over. There is an old school ring announcer tip of the hat with the repeating of 'Kennedy' and the old MSG style lowering the mic from the ceiling that long time fans get a kick out of. To other fans it just comes across as an arrogant heel. He displays personality and a freshness not seen since Steve Austin first started getting over. Even when he was sitting with Cole and Tazz on commentary. They need to add other elements of his character so the 'Kennedy, Kennedy' thing doesn't get completely over done. Maybe let him rip off the Rock and Jerry Lawler a little bit and do commentary during his matches or at least grab the headset and talk when he has an opponent outside. That was something I loved about the Rock that he dropped doing on his babyface runs. My vote would be for The McMahons to love his character so much that they make him the new play by play guy on Raw at least for a few weeks. The Raw exposure would get his character over more and he could have dual roles as a wrestler on Smackdown and commentator on Raw until Teddy Long maybe finds a loophole that forbids him from doing the Raw gig.

How old is that image? Is that her since she lost weight?

That and the fact that he's consistently entertaining in every skit that the writers come up with, no matter how horrible the skits may be. And the fact that he's still over to a degree despite being jobbed out and his style stands out from the rest of the roster but is safe in terms of "WWE style". This guy could easily be placed into Hollywood and be successful. The Rock needs to make him his Jackie Chan to The Rock's Chris Tucker.

Joey Styles is a character. He's entertaining. He knows wrestling. He can sell a PPV. He was the star of One Night Stand. But they can't offer him enough to walk away from his day job?

Exactly. This is why I'm not as optimistic about TNA's chances although I'm holding out hope that I'm wrong. There was a considerable amount of time between the announcement that TNA was coming to Spike and the final Raw on Spike to really present TNA to WWE's audience. I'm sure Vince and company wouldn't have appreciated this but so what. The commercials they aired were alright but Spike failed to introduce the TNA talent to WWE's audience. It would have been pretty simple to insert Dave Sahidi produced highlight reels of say Samoa Joe, Monty Brown, AJ Styles or the X Division with the announcement that these superstars were coming to Spike on October 3rd. I'm also sure that Sahidi would have been more than willing to produce some videos poking fun at his former company and hyping the "alternative". I'm just amazed that Spike didn't go this route but it really doesn't shock me as the channel has a poor history when you look at how ECW was fumbled (during a strong point in the business) and how little they did for WWE (although creative is mostly responsible for the ratings dive).

It was just dumb. Spike was really banking on the fact that pro wrestling fans are dumb enough that when they'll turn the television set to Spike next Monday at 9pm and they don't see WWE that they will stay for UFC. Well, they won't. Like MikeSC said, there isn't much crossover there. They will look for WWE. There best bet to retain any of WWE's audience would have been to air the repeat of Impact! at 9pm and follow that up with a UFC special. Perhaps, just perhaps, an alternative wrestling product would have kep them from switching or noticing very quickly that it wasn't Raw. And they obviously don't know how Vince McMahon and WWE operate. Did they really think that McMahon would just stand by silent as they prepared this counter Monday night programming and Vince is shelling out about $20,000, probably more, for one shot names to appear to spike a rating? My opinon, WWE had every right to mention the switch to USA and it was ridiculous to censor them. Did WWE production cut back to live wrestling the moment a TNA or UFC commercial aired on Spike? Let's not forget that even prior to the announcement that Raw was going back to USA, the UFC commercial knocking wrestling as not being real was airing regularly during WWE programming. I'd love to get excited about TNA on Spike but I'm not overly impressed with how they've been promoted so far. They had a month worth of ad time to insert nicely produced video packages to air during Raw, showing X Division action and random TNA superstar highlights and profiles. They didn't. That was the way that you introduce your 'pro wrestling audience' to your alternative wrestling product. Even something like airing a Best of TNA show following the last Raw. UFC is their prized weapon but it doesn't work in a year out/weekly format like wrestling does. I understand that there is more money to be made through UFC advertising but that's also very fickle. All it takes is one person complaining about the violence and advertisers will pull.

Maybe they can bring in Maven to squash Shawn Michaels like that other VH1 reality tv star. Or Maven vs. Danny Bonaduce vs. Hulk Hogan in a VH1 reality TV Triple Threat match at Mania, referreed by Chyna Doll, special enforcers Willie Aames and the Snapple Lady. With a run in from Gary Busey.

Why should Angle give a shit about someone like Puder? Why would he care if he gets the chance to 'redeem himself' against a no-name for an incident that a vast majority of the fanbase doesn't remember?? I'm not saying he should give a shit about Puder but be a man and admit that someone got the best of you, congratulate them and maybe tease them that it was nothing but a fluke and once they are ready for the big time, he'll prove it. Don't avoid him backstage and never mention a word of it to anyone. It's obvious that the kid had some sort of wrestling ability and that's what Kurt Angle is all about, right? Go to bat for the kid. Yes, a vast majority of the fanbase doesn't remember but I'm sure Kurt Angle does. I'm sure the locker room does, people like Meltzer and those types do as does the shoot fighting community who were all over it before even I realized that it was that big of a deal

He's green as grass and making $250,000 a year. Unless he's a diva, he's not going to make that investment back. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Kind of makes you wonder why they made the stupid contest in the first place. I guess they thought the fans would pick some hoss. WWE just doesn't understand its fanbase anymore. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Fans wouldn't have given two shits if there was no dollar tagged on to the Tough Enough competition. It could have just been an offer for a WWE contract period. WWE just likes blowing smoke up their own asses and sound prestigious in press releases by having MILLION DOLLAR prizes. Vince is absolutely clueless that this guy won because people want to see legitimate fighters and that his audience does indeed mark out for moments like an unknown showing up Kurt Angle. Had this been the Monday Night Wars, Vince would have seen money in that very fact and developing Pruder would have been seen as a priority for a PPV run with Kurt Angle when he was ready. But Vince has no competition and is surrounded by yes men and a corporate structure ridden with politics and putting personal grudges before business. For this reason, I hope UFC or TNA are able to find a spot for Puder. And Kurt Angle is a pussy for not using his political power to help out someone who got the best of someone of Angle's caliber. You'd at least think Kurt would want an opportunity to show him up and redeem himself. Then again, Kurt didn't help out someone like Charlie Haas either. And if I was Puder, regardless of the pay cut, had I known that WWE were intentionally wanting me to fail, I would have taken the cut and trained in Deep South or wherever just to not give them the satisfaction of working their company bullshit on me.

Actually black guys dressed as Gallagher would be pretty funny. They could bust up watermellons and throw the pieces into the crowd. The announcers could argue whether this is a tip of the hat to a comedic icon or a black tag team making a bold statement about racist stereotypes and literally "throwing them in the face" of the professional wrestling audience. Give them the tag name of the Gallagher Brothers, Tyrone and Leroy Gallagher.

Okay, I think everyone agrees he should have not shook Vince's hand. That was stupid. But I'd like to focus on the bolded part. Reference to internet smarks....why? The internet smarks KNOW the situation (well, Matt's POV, and that's all that counts). In this case, there is no reason to single them out. If he said something like his MFers supporting him on the internet, that's cool. But to be overly smarky? Sure, we'd smile because he's talking about us, but it would do nothing for the marks, and he wants them behind him. Indy promotions? A quick reference maybe, to show he wasn't going to let Edge/Lita ruin his career, but again, catering to the indy fans is not need, because they know the situation. They did say Edge, Lita and WWE screwed him. But he even screwed this up. He wanted for Edge (oh, I'm sorry, "Adam") to die in a car crash. That's just awkward., and no one is going to cheer for him with that line. Bottom line is yes, they could have made this angle better. But being overly smarky and making references to things that a percentage of people know isn't a good idea. I actually liked how they left the really internet things on just that: the internet. The Byte This crap was good, because cyber geeks such as ourselves are watching that, and we get a kick out of it. If they aired those promos on TV, the crowd wouldn't be quite responsive because of confusion, in my opinion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The whole premise of the Edge vs. Matt Hardy feud was blown up on the internet. You may say that it's pointless to cut a promo targeting smarks or the "smart audience" but this entire storyline wouldn't have happened if the internet people didn't have an influence on WWE live crowds. That percentage of smart fans in audiences, were the ones that were chanting "We Want Matt", "Your Screwed Matt" and "Whore" directed at Lita. They had to turn Lita heel because they couldn't throw her in front of any audience without a negative reaction. They put her with Edge and tried to inject Kane into Matt Hardy's role as the jilted lover and people were still chanting for Matt. The only reason that Matt Hardy was re-hired was because of the buzz on the Internet. There was money to be made, right? Of course, there could be conflicts once Matt Hardy was re-hired. Now us smarts know that this is all a worked program or feud and that Matt Hardy was once again working for WWE. Would the smarts sour on him for returning to the company that fired him? Perhaps. Would the flaws that WWE saw in Matt Hardy before they fired him be evident? Perhaps. This is why you book to someone's stong points and the one thing that Matt had going for him was a buzz on the Internet, so yes, we were the people to play to in this case. Part of that support was due to many disagreeing with his termination and feeling like he was wronged by WWE. So creative chooses to overlook that and introduce him by shaking Vince McMahon's hand and not even mentioning any bitterness towards the company that fired him? Only weeks after he was jumping the barriers, getting handcuffed out of the arena and telling Johnny Ace to go to hell? Only weeks after he was appearing on Byte This telling people to catch him in Ring of Honor and trying to get himself included on a TNA PPV to further the angle along? This was Pillman 2005. That was exciting stuff and it should have been prolonged. He should have had more indie dates. He should have damned WWE, had "friends" in WWE production that would put up Matt Facts when Edge was wrestling, telling people where to see Matt Hardy on the indie circuit. Causing Bischoff and McMahon to freak out. Jumping Edge in the parking lot, at autograph sessions with fan cams taping everything. And yes he should have thanked the smarks and those on the Internet for supporting him and proving to be more intelligent than WWE wanted them to be. They can blame the bad promo but you know what, his promo wasn't necessary nor was rushing the angle so we could have a 3:00 Summerslam match. Targeting comments towards smart fans would have been more sensible than just going out there and saying the whole Kane thing was pretend wrestling stuff and this is real. That was supposed to get marks behind him? You're telling me that anything else would have been more confusing to a mark than that?