
LucharesuFan619
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Big difference. Cradle Shock = Fireman's Carry Michinoku Driver II w/ little head drop. Ki Krusher '99 = Leg Cradle Fisherman's Michinoku Driver II w/ mega head drop.
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Honestly, I hope it pays off for them, but if they pull anything like they did when they were going to air their last PPV, then I'll be the first one to laugh. And hopefully they'll pay everyone they say they're going to pay who's gonna be featured on the PPV (if they plan to pay them...I don't know what the logistics are and if people are usualy paid for being featured on a taped PPV, but since it's apparently gonna be full matches, I don't know why they shouldn't be.) and not give the cold shoulder to someone like Terry Funk.
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Found this site while surfing yahoo: http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/southbank/pot.../wwfindex1.html. It's got a bunch of photos of the MULLETS~! that have been seen in the WWF/WWE. Great stuff. From HBK to Sid to Jake The Snake to tons others. Funny site that's worth a look if you have a spare moment and are into mullets.
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According to the RajahWWF.com Oratory message board: Match 1 - Raven d. Sabu via pinfall when Raven DDTed Sabu on a table tilted at an angle (man, they didn't take my advice in that article in the General Wrestling section [shill - check it out and find out how TNA SHOULD'VE booked this match and the rest of the feud!!!! ] at all and put those two in the FIRST fucking match...ridiculous...) Match 2 - Abyss d. Sonny Siaki via pinfall Match 3 - Michael Shane and Kazarian d. Chris Sabin and Jerry Lynn via pinfall Russo announces a "Championship Committee" headed by Terry Funk, Harley Race, and Larry Zybkdslaklskldklsdhngljsko or however you spell it. Dusty Rhodes got furious about something and a heel turn was hinted at. Currently happening apparently is Pat Kenney vs. Big Vito & Trinity in a weapons match of sorts (handicap match, I guess).
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Super Dragon vs. Samoa Joe added to PWGs Next Show
LucharesuFan619 replied to a topic in General Wrestling
JOSH PROHIBITION~! Sweet. I haven't seen the kid in awhile, but his match with Puma should be good. -
Anyone have the link to the TNA message board? I did a search for it and nothing came up. Thanks in advance.
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Hey, thanks for taking the interest in reading this. I've written a lot of different wrestling articles ranging on tons of different topics, but this is one of them I'm most proud of. It takes a very indepth look at the Raven vs. Sabu program that TNA has booked and examines virtually every aspect of it, from why a singles match between them never transpired to what TNA has to gain to the ramifications that booking this rivalry wrong could have for the promotion. I started it about two months ago. So, anyway, I hope you enjoy it. I'd love any feedback you have - good or bad, as long as it's polite). Thanks! EDIT: The main topic should say "The Stuff of Legends." Sorry about that. RAVEN vs. SABU in TNA: The Stuff of Legends Originally printed by Jonathan on Tuesday, August 3, 2004 Shane Douglas, Taz, Raven, Tommy Dreamer, Sabu, and The Sandman. Every single one of the 15 possible one-on-one match combinations between these six wrestling icons occurred in ECW at least one time. All but one, that is… ECW gave its fans more than they could have ever wished for – from technical wrestling precision and dramatic tag team showdowns to barbaric death matches and death-defying high-flying maneuvers, ECW showcased one of the most well-rounded products the wrestling industry has ever seen. Yet many indy promotions have – in recent years – have demonstrated their belief that there’s still more to give to the former-cult following of ECW. As a result, the ECW-spawned feuds of Sabu vs. Sandman, Shane Douglas vs. Sabu, Raven vs. Sandman, and Shane Douglas vs. Raven have been revived in various indy federations since ECW folded in early 2001. The possibility for many of these newly-revamped rivalries emerged only when Raven (to many observers the defining character of the brash, over-the-top attitude popularized by ECW) was officially released from WWE on January 20, 2002. A mere two days later, he made a surprise appearance on a live NWA-TNA Pay-Per-View, thereby signifying that the morose legend of ECW fame was entering a new era in his career – one in which he’d be free from the political confinement that his WWE job entailed. Raven has reignited his classic ECW rivalries with The Sandman and Shane Douglas in TNA and even some less well-known indy promotions, since that memorable January night. Since, that is… ECW is history. So is Raven’s TNA debut. Those were then. This is now; and again Raven finds himself coming to blows with a demon from his ECW past. However, what’s the difference between Raven’s battles with Sandman and Douglas and the one being hinted at? Even though the two superstars first met one another a decade ago and co-hold the honor of participating in the first and second most brilliantly constructed feuds in ECW history, Raven and Sabu have never before wrestled each other in a one-on-one situation. Ever. But that’s about to change tomorrow night. Despite switching clothes in the same lockerroom and competing in high-profile matches and angles on the very same ECW shows (sometimes taking the stage within mere minutes of each other), Raven and Sabu never once squared off in a singles match. In recent years, the closest that fans have come to seeing the two go at it in a sanctioned singles match was actually a three-way bout that occurred on 3PW's November 22, 2003 show at Viking Hall in Philadelphia, PA. That night, Raven and Sabu went at it several times, but it was Sandman who Raven pinned to capture the 3PW Heavyweight Title, thereby retaining one of the biggest draws of a potential match between these two – neither Raven nor Sabu has been pinned by the other. Besides that semi-exception in 3PW (seeing as how it also involved a third competitor, Sandman), Raven has consistently turned down promoters’ requests to participate in a singles match against Sabu on the independent circuit. As elucidated upon in his second RF Video shoot interview in March 2003, Raven has been hoping for TNA to draw up a program between the two, since its weekly Pay-Per-View and Fox Sports Net shows garner a significantly larger audience than any other indy organizations today. Despite a singles match never transpiring between the two, one was evidently booked, but ended up not seeing the light of day. The WWA New England promotion in Massachusetts had been hyping a one-on-one bout between the two hardcore legends on its February 8, 2003 show. However, Sabu no-showed the event, according to ScottLevy.com (Raven’s official web site) because “of a snowstorm” and subsequently an “inability to catch a flight in to Massachusetts.” So, Aron Stevens took Sabu’s place and worked Raven for the second straight day of the promotion’s two-day tour. It’s unclear whether or not WWA-NE had in fact confirmed with Sabu himself the appearance, or if the no-show can instead be credited to some kind of miscommunication between WWA-NE officials and possibly the failure on Raven’s part to realize that he had been booked to work the guy who he considered off limits unless it was a high-profile TNA match. What is for certain, however, is that Sabu has wrestled for WWA-NE since that date, so the possibility that the promotion was simply falsely promoting the match for some reason or another isn’t all that likely. Whatever the case may be with their WWA-NE match and the reason that it wasn’t meant to be, TNA is finally going in the direction of a Raven vs. Sabu showdown. Raven's testimony about the subject in his RF Video interview has been verified a number of times – he and Sabu have competed on no less than 25 of the same indy shows since ECW folded, and yet have never wrestled each other mano y mano (and that 20 number doesn’t even include the plenty of other TNA events they both have worked on). Therefore, the TNA Pay-Per-View tomorrow night will in fact be the first time the two have ever gone one-on-one. Now, granted, Raven and Sabu have worked with one another in tag team matches and also the aforementioned 3PW three-way contest. It was in January of this year that Sabu paired up with Steve Corino to take on Raven & Vampiro (who won the match) in MLW. Then, about a month later, Raven & Sabu teamed together to defeat Shane Douglas & Dyson Pryce on a Border City Wrestling/Prime Time Wrestling joint show. However, another scheduled partnership between them – this time at a November 2003 Jersey All Pro Wrestling event, on which they were booked against Dan “Mafia” Maff & Homicide – ended up being changed at the last minute to Raven and Steve Corino teaming. As he’s been known to do in the past more than most other wrestlers, Sabu had no-showed the New Jersey show due to double-booking himself and working a card in Texas. The next scene that saw Raven and Sabu together in the same ring occurred in TNA, only – until now – it followed the course of the BCW/PTW event and featured them as allies, rather than adversaries. The angle was initiated by Sabu involving himself in Raven’s early 2004 feud against The Gathering (C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero). Sabu teamed up with his former-ECW cohort in late February to defeat the heel duo and then on the following week’s show, he saved Raven from a beating at the hands of The Naturals (Andy Douglas & Chase Stevens). However, that was the last night that Raven and Sabu would appear to be on the same page as one another, as their companionship began having to deal with some external influences. In March and April, Vince Russo used his booking power to draw a wedge between them and on April 21, that strategy showed some signs of working. Raven’s mind was on other things when he was supposed to show up in the ring for he and Sabu’s scheduled tag team match versus Abyss & Monty Brown. Instead, he became distracted by Chris Harris backstage and ended up leaving Sabu to get decimated by the two behemoths. To make matters worse, when Raven finally showed up in the ring (after the match had ended and the damage to Sabu had been done), he arrogantly started ordering around his supposed ally, as if he were Sabu’s boss. That was one of the earliest signs of any tension between the tandem in TNA, but it turned out to be far from the last. On the following week’s Pay-Per-View, Raven insisted in a backstage promo that even though some problems between himself and Sabu seemed to be developing as of late, he was a man of his word – “If I tell Sabu that I got his back, then I got his back.” However, later on that same exact show, he didn’t keep his word and made no attempt to save Sabu from a beating at the hands of Abyss. That left Erik Watts to make the save and fight off the big man for the Arabian phenomenon. By this point, Sabu had suffered enough of Raven’s broken promises and started obtaining some revenge on the May 12 show. He attacked Raven and chased him all the way into the TNA Asylum crowd. Then, on the June 9 show, the hostility between the two finally reached a boiling point. After reiterating the fact that he and Sabu had never faced off one-on-one, Raven challenged Sabu to a “Raven’s Clockwork Orange House of Horrors Match,” a challenge that he was sure Sabu would reject. And apparently, Raven’s assessment of Sabu’s mindset towards him was correct, as later on that same show, Sonjay Dutt relayed to Raven that Sabu had turned down the challenge out of respect to his late uncle Ed “The Original Sheik” Farhat. As TNA’s storyline goes, Sabu promised The Sheik that he’d never wrestle Raven, since they trained together under The Shiek. In reality, that’s not the case – Raven began his wrestling training in the mid-‘80s at Larry Sharpe’s Monster Factory in New Jersey, before making his debut in February 1988. While it’s entirely possible that he met The Sheik before and received some pointers from him, The Sheik had no greater a role in training Raven than did Jake Roberts and Roddy Piper, both of whom Raven credits as having provided him some valuable tips about the business. Nonetheless, TNA’s intention is to apply the back-story that both superstars started their careers with the guidance of The Sheik and that Sabu vowed to his now deceased uncle that he’d never break his friendship with Raven by wrestling him. When Raven found out from Sonjay Dutt that Sabu had refused to wrestle him, he turned his fury on Sonjay, who is being used as a mouthpiece of sorts for the vocally reserved Sabu. In hopes of luring Sabu to the ring, Raven decimated Sonjay with not only his fists, but also a screwdriver. Even when the referee made a fast three count to mercifully end the match for the sake of Sonjay’s wellbeing, Raven continued beating on his opponent until Sabu finally made his way out to the ring. However, not Raven’s arrogant slaps and kicks, nor even his assertion that The Sheik never would’ve trained Sabu had they not been relatives, was enough to provoke Sabu into snapping. Even in the midst of Raven’s tasteless attempt to get under his skin, Sabu appeared determined to remain true to what he had told his uncle. A little bit later on that same Pay-Per-View, Raven cut a backstage promo in which he seemed to have some second thoughts about trying to provoke Sabu earlier in the night. He said that he regretted what he had done less than an hour before and that – to make up for it – he’d present a “tribute” to The Sheik on the following week’s show. However, on the June 23 event, the booking of this tribute segment had to be changed at the last minute because – according to Dave Meltzer of WrestlingObserver.com – Raven was legitimately suffering from pneumonia and was therefore unable to make it to the show. So, as a result, TNA’s creative team went with the idea that Raven was continuing to play mind games with Sabu. A shot was aired of a scarecrow dressed as The Sheik hanging from the ceiling backstage, with a “Nevermore” (one of Raven’s catchphrases in ECW) sign attached. Sabu saw this display and – as one would expect – was none too happy about it, promoting referee Mickey Doyle to be interjected into the storyline. TNA played up the true fact that Doyle has known Sabu for many years and even had a few battles against The Sheik back when he was a wrestler. Doyle told Sabu that because Raven’s actions were entirely disrespectful to the legacy of the late Sheik, he supported whatever Sabu believed was necessary to get back at Raven, even if it meant that he’d have to break his promise to The Sheik and battle Raven one-on-one. Over the next four weeks, TNA built up the impending blowoff match by letting Raven stay home from the weekly Pay-Per-Views and Impact! show. Upon making his first TNA appearance in more than a month two weeks ago on Pay-Per-View, Raven not only costed Sabu his match against Abyss and put him through a table by diving off of a balcony; He challenged Sabu to a match on a future Pay-Per-View and a week later, Mike Tenay announced that Sabu had accepted Raven’s challenge and that they’d meet face-to-face for the first time on August 4. According to Tenay’s speech, Sabu had indicated that he’d only wrestle Raven once and when that match ended, he didn’t want any more of Raven. However, waiting a week didn’t suit Raven. He wanted Sabu now, and – in order to lure him into the ring – wore what was supposedly one of The Sheik’s robes and proceeded to pour gasoline on it, as if about to light it on fire. And that wasn’t all. Raven revealed a gagged Sonjay Dutt from under the ring and threw him onto the pile, before preparing to engulf both the robes and Sonjay in flames. That was enough for Sabu, apparently. He appeared in the same manner that Raven made his return the previous week – the lights in the arena dimmed and when they were turned back up, Sabu charged Raven and they brawled before being broken up by security. And with that, the countdown was on to the first singles match ever between these two ECW icons. Although TNA is hyping the bout as if Raven and Sabu were training partners when they really weren’t, the promotion is telling the truth about the fact that they have never wrestled each other one-on-on, not even in ECW. Raven admitted in his recent RF Video shoot interview that because both fighters were so vital to ECW's popularity in the mid and late-'90's, Paul Heyman objected to the notion of jobbing either one to the other. The idea of simply booking a No Contest between them also didn’t appeal to Heyman, since he knew that such a decision would've dissolved a substantial amount of the credibility that made both guys such draws in ECW. To be fair, Heyman did have a point there – Raven and Sabu were either at or very near to their peaks during 1996 and 1997, and each guy was fully occupied at that time with long-term storylines. Sabu and Taz were working a rivalry that would climax at ECW’s inaugural Pay-Per-View, Barely Legal, in April 1997, and even after that match, they continued feuding for most of that year (and then resurface in 1999). When he wasn’t busy combating Taz, Sabu was teaming with Rob Van Dam against The Sandman & Tommy Dreamer. Likewise, Raven’s feud with Dreamer ended in mid-’97, but even if Heyman wished to, involving Raven in the RVD/Sabu vs. Sandman/Dreamer feud wasn’t an option because he had jumped to WCW. Yet that wasn’t the last people saw of Raven in ECW. Heat developed between he and Eric Bischoff, resulting in Raven returning back home to ECW in 1999. Was a program with Sabu possible at that time? Probably not. At that point, Heyman was intent on wrapping up the nearly five-year long saga between Raven and Dreamer. Plus, when Raven reappeared in ECW, Sabu and Heyman were developing major problems with one another and by early 2000, their relationship had dissipated to the point that they couldn’t even work together anymore. After engaging with one another in some legal wrangling over Sabu’s ECW contract, Sabu broke away from ECW and started taking bookings on the U.S. independent circuit and also overseas. Then, mere months after Sabu departed from ECW, Raven signed with WWE. However, with that company’s management considering Sabu “too extreme” for their product, the possibility of a program between the two ECW legends disappeared until Raven left WWE in early 2002. So now, Raven and Sabu find themselves having reunited in TNA, but the question that remains unanswered is whether there’s still any point to booking a storyline between them when each is so far past his prime. Undoubtedly, the match would’ve meant much more to the wrestling world if it happened in ECW, rather than TNA. ECW was more than the place where Raven and Sabu became wrestling superstars; it was where they were both in their primes. Now, their best years are in the past and the time until each grappler retires is gradually diminishing on a daily basis. In 2004, do Raven and Sabu still have the ability to deliver in a match with the other to the point that a program between them would be worthwhile? Raven’s long-running feud with C.M. Punk and his matches with AJ Styles in NWA-TNA and Cleveland All Pro Wrestling have proven that he can adjust his style to work quite well with the younger talent on the independent circuit. Many fans saw in his series of matches with Punk shades of the old Raven – specifically of his emotionally-packed ECW rivalry with Tommy Dreamer. Other young talent such as Chris Hero (IWA Mid-South), Christopher Daniels (IWC and TNA), Nosawa (MLW), James Storm (TNA), Chris Harris (TNA), Joey Matthews (3PW), and Low Ki (USA Pro) have worked with Raven to produce commendable showings. When TNA goes finally through with this grudge match tomorrow night, its bookers mustn’t put forth a lazy and unsuccessful attempt at living in the past (as it’s done before). In the past year, Raven has had some surprisingly solid matches with former-ECW rivals such as Justin Credible, Steve Corino, and Shane Douglas, which indicates that – if the situation is right – Raven can shine, even when in the ring with wrestlers his age or older. Sabu has also proved capable of having excellent matches with talent much younger than himself. Over the past two years, Christopher Daniels, Super Dragon, Ruckus, Teddy Hart, The Messiah, and Homicide, among others, have produced unexpectedly great matches with him. Sabu, however, has tended to offer more of a mixed bag when it comes to matches against old ECW rivals. For instance, his December 2003 match against Jerry Lynn in 3PW was very sloppy (mostly thanks to Sabu), but comparatively, just about everything seemed to go right with their EPIC match in California two years ago. Similarly, his three-way dance in NWA-TNA against New Jack and Sandman was just plain horrible, but the triangle match between the three in 3PW was multiple times more entertaining. While his 3PW match against Terry Funk was well-worked by both competitors, but their XPW match in mid-2000 was a considerable letdown. On the other hand, most of Sabu’s MLW matches against La Parka and Mikey Whipwreck were solid and sometimes even quite good. Perhaps his best match since leaving ECW came against one of the most unlikely opponents of all – WWE superstar Al Snow. The two went all out in a January 2004 3PW match that mixed drama and high-risk spots to near perfection. Sabu is one of the least consistent wrestlers out there, and as a result, it’s become quite a challenge to tell if booking him with a particular wrestler will leave the fans going home happy or wondering why they spent their money on a 39-year old has-been. Sabu’s bait of mailing it in on occasion hasn’t helped out his reputation and has instead lead to the laziness stereotype being applied to him more and more as his career has progressed. He far too frequently botches his signature spots and – even worse – will sometimes just go right back and repeat them with better execution, thereby detrimenting the psychology of his matches and also – to a degree – revealing the pre-determined nature of the business more than is necessary. On the other side of the barrel is Raven. Since leaving WWE and becoming a mainstay on the indy circuit, he has been startlingly consistent in the substantial effort he puts into almost every one of his matches. Many fans have therefore came to consider the post-WWE Scott Levy to be representative of a rebirth – so to say – of Raven. Look at the situation in this way – following his TNA debut in January 2003, Raven quickly became one of – if not the – hottest free agents on the independent wrestling circuit. Within a mere six months of his WWE release, Raven had been booked in 14 U.S. states and one foreign country (Canada), and he went out of his way to make sure everyone (both promoters and fans) got their money’s worth. In one noteworthy instance, he worked the February 26 TNA event in Nashville, TN, then within two days was in California to wrestle “Vicious” Vic Grimes in XPW, and then immediately hightailed it to Illinois to battle Vic Capri for RCW just one night later (March 1). Since that first half-year of life on the indy circuit, Raven has expanded his bookings even more, having wrestled matches in Germany and England. The fact that Raven was and still is traveling all over the world is a testament to his still-existent ability to entertain fans across the world. He has proved to his critics that he is still an icon in professional wrestling and can easily attract his fair share of fans to wrestling shows. Nonetheless, considering that he’ll be turning 38 this coming September, his drawing power – and consequently the profitability of a Raven vs. Sabu feud, also – is starting to become limited. To maximize upon the program’s potential, it’s now or never for TNA, and thankfully it appears that they realize this and are going to hold the big match tomorrow evening. How about after that, though? What’s going to happen following tomorrow’s blowoff (supposedly) match? Will Tenay’s statements prove true? Or will TNA try to milk this program for all it’s worth? And what about the other indy promotions out there that Raven and Sabu compete for? After TNA’s version of the Raven vs. Sabu feud takes a back seat, will the matchup transpire anywhere else (heck, will Raven even change his policy and allow it to?)? And even more importantly – if it does, will it mean anything after it’s already happened once? This is the difficult bind in which TNA finds itself – there are ramifications regardless of which direction it chooses to go in. To conclude the rivalry with tomorrow night’s encounter is equivalent to in wasting (at least, in large part) a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity – a picture-perfect setup that the past has developed for this historic showdown. The back-story of these two superstars leading the ECW revolution, yet never facing off against one another, is enough to effectively underlie this program. TNA’s decision to further develop the storyline by pretending that The Sheik trained both Raven and Sabu lifts the already substantial intrigue of the match up to a whole new level. Yet – at the same time – further drawing out the rivalry over the next few weeks or months may only spark other problems down the road because of the limits that age and health has placed on each superstar. While Sabu has only a few more years of wrestling left in his body, injuries are most certainly catching up to Raven, too. In fact, only about a month and a half ago, he was forced to cancel his scheduled USA Pro appearance because he reaggravated a rib injury on the June 16 TNA Pay-Per-View. Even more interestingly, though, Raven had – according to the 6/28 edition of Dave Meltzer’s Wrestling Observer newsletter – “protected himself the entire match” and didn’t even take “one bump nor [do] anything risky.” So, if “trying to do a safe match” (as Meltzer worded it) has resulted in injury for Raven, just how is he supposed to keep his body safe in a match that’s expected to radiate the old ECW stigma, which was based on high-risk spots and unruly brawling? While both Raven and Sabu need to be sure that they stay healthy as long as this program extends, TNA also has some preparation to do in terms of maximizing the drawing power of each wrestler (and also retaining each one’s overness for the duration of the feud). Unlike several high-profile wrestlers who previously debuted for TNA as big-time players, but dropped to the lower level of the card within mere weeks (such as D’Lo Brown), Raven has maintained his spot in the upper echelon of TNA and is definitely over enough to be engaging in such a high-level feud. Sabu’s push, on the other hand, has been on and off in TNA and the promotion desperately needs to permanently change that perception if it intends on playing out this rivalry as long as possible. This matchup shouldn’t be limited to occupying midcard status, like was the case with Sabu vs. Monty Brown and Raven vs. The Gathering earlier this year. Raven vs. Sabu is a dream match of a rare form – not only is it one of the few bouts that’s in the realm of possibility; it’s also more intriguing than just about any other one imaginable. Over the past decade, Raven and Sabu have given their bodies and their souls to wrestling spectators around the world and – as a result – their names have become synonymous with the unforgettable influence that ECW left with pro wrestling. Each competitor added his own stylistic contribution to the hardcore wrestling methodology and their influence on that particular aspect of the industry led to a surge of popularity in an edgier, more violent form of wrestling, upon which promotions such as IWA-MS, CZW, XPW, and IWS were constructed. Not only are Raven and Sabu associated with making ECW a household name in pro wrestling arguably more so than any of the other names that were cited above – Shane Douglas, Taz, Tommy Dreamer, and The Sandman. What ECW did was return the favor and raise Raven and Sabu to legendary status in the wrestling business (and especially the hardcore side of it). It was through his ECW tenure that what was initially just a small cult following for Sabu in Japan during the early ‘90’s evolved into an entire movement for his insane, high-risk style over in the United States. Likewise, it wasn’t until he found a home in ECW in early 1995 that Raven’s inability to secure a steady gig in wrestling came to a close. No longer did he have to surf through countless promotions and countries in hopes of finding the character that was right for him. ECW was where he was meant to be. In the years following Raven’s joining of ECW, he and Sabu worked with Tommy Dreamer and Taz, respectively, to produce what were probably ECW’s two most well-booked angles ever. Raven and Sabu were such draws to ECW fans that they were designated main and semi-main event spots on ECW’s inaugural Pay-Per-View, Barely Legal, in April 1997. While ECW was at its absolute pinnacle – when the entire “smark” wrestling world considered it to be the best thing that had hit the industry in years – Raven and Sabu were being pushed as two of the most formidable performers on its roster. Heyman displayed his creative expertise by waiting patiently until the time would be right to develop a program between the two wrestlers (and – of course – that time never arrived during the course of ECW’s existence). He knew that to blow a feud between these two because of one or the other’s drawing power being in some type of down swing would be to spoil one of the most potentially lucrative angles that ever could’ve presented itself to the ECW creative team. The personas of these two superstars would’ve been perfect matches for a long-running series of bouts and if TNA plans it out right, this program could be the buried treasure for which it’s been searching ever since the “Bound For Glory” Sunday Pay-Per-View with Hulk Hogan fell through the cracks several months ago. Although Raven has – as of late – opened up to his fans a bit more than previously by writing commentaries for his web site and doing interviews with various wrestling media outlets quite frequently, the fact remains that – while he was in ECW – Raven was a man of mystery. Despite commonly speaking on the air (unlike Sabu), his persona remained extremely unconventional, even in an industry that in and of itself is considered completely “different” than all other forms of entertainment. The lines of reasoning in Raven’s ECW promos were so ambiguously and abstractly expressed that he sometimes sounded almost poetic, in a way. In fact, he borrowed ideas from Edgar Allen Poe’s poem, “The Raven,” and vaguely modeled his character after the work, even retaining its “Quote the Raven, Nevermore” line as his signature catchphrase. If the circumstances were right, Raven’s promos could spark shudders in the viewer because he so looked and acted the part that he was portraying. His character appeared so real that it was – to a degree – a chilling experience to watch him cut a promo. The bottom line is that the morose portrayal that the Raven character required couldn’t have fit Scott Levy more perfectly. Yet – despite all of this – the thing that’s key to realize about Raven in comparison to Sabu is that when Raven is outside of the ring, he’s a relatively normal guy. I’ve met him before and he is quite courteous, accommodating, and – save for having made a living out of bleeding buckets in front of millions of people for a decade and a half – relatively normal. This isn’t the case with Sabu. The total vocal reservation that the Sabu persona is marked by in the ring is not all that different compared to how the real-life Terry Brunk acts. Sabu keeps an extremely tight circle of friends in the business and is very cautious with whom he associates himself. Only a select few wrestlers – Rob Van Dam, The Sandman, Terry Funk, and New Jack among them – have broken through the wall with him, and – as a result – even other performers have ended up as the subject of his sometimes-inhospitable demeanor. For example, one wrestler I spoke to – who credits Sabu with getting him a spot on a wrestling tour in Japan a few years back – explained to me an almost comical tendency of the 20-year veteran when he’s hanging out backstage. This wrestler explains how Sabu will often walk into a locker room and – one-by-one – shake the hand of each wrestler that he knows and has known for awhile. Then, when he gets done doing that, he’ll look around at the other workers who he doesn’t know on as personal a basis and will signal for them (only without saying anything, usually) to leave of the room and let him catch up on old times with his friends. Another wrestler I spoke to – who originally met Sabu around 1994 and at one time was very friendly with him outside of the ring (although he hasn’t talked to him in two years, since this wrestler has retired) – tells me that Sabu is “incredibly kayfabe and old school.” According to this individual, Sabu considers wrestling fans as being obligated to respect the boundaries that were in place many years back between wrestlers and spectators, back when it wasn’t widely known that pro wrestling was staged. In that era, most wrestlers remained in character even outside of the ring. Certainly a substantial amount of Sabu’s introversion towards fans and wrestlers alike can be traced back to the fact that he grew up under the watchful eye of his uncle, The Original Sheik. Besides being famous for gouging his opponents’ foreheads with sharp foreign objects, The Sheik was also well-known for his tendency to reject fans’ autograph requests, and – in the rare instances when he did oblige – it was often while acting excessively grouchy with the fan(s). The Sheik was one of the most hated heels in the industry and that role carried over outside of the ring. This kayfabe-oriented mentality of The Sheik rubbed off onto young Terry Brunk, who vowed early in his career that he was going to center his wrestling character around remaining silent in public. The combined number of promos Sabu has cut and interviews he’s granted during his career can be counted on two hands, and the only other times his voice can be heard on tape is when he’s screaming in agony during one of his many gory death matches. Over the course of his 20-year career, Sabu is one of the few wrestlers who have remained true to their roots and haven’t given into the “smark” fanbase’s pressure to modify his persona and speak more frequently. In that way, fans have come to regard him with a sense of awe. Not surprisingly, seeing the man compete in a live setting is an experience that few other sites can come close to matching. Yes, it’s true that Sabu has suffered burns from fire matches, cuts and stab wounds from scissors, barbed-wire, thumbtacks, etc., and even a bullet that remains lodged in his throat to this very day from when he was shot years ago as a high school student. However, the aura about Sabu transcends even deeper than this. He’s suffered more agony over the span of just a few years than most people experience in their entire life, and yet he’s one of an extremely small number of wrestlers who’ve never openly discussed their career with the wrestling media. While Raven’s persona is – as I worded it above – “unconventional,” it’s just that – a persona. With Sabu, what you see is what you get. In an industry in which detractors are always able to turn to the “it’s all fake” excuse if they run out of points of criticism, the character fans see Terry Brunk portray in the squared circle isn’t all that different than what he’s like outside of the ring. Sabu, therefore, is as real as real can be, and he possesses a mystifying demeanor that makes a feud with one of the very few wrestlers who can come even close to matching his excessively reserved persona (one of whom is Raven) all the more intriguing. One of the ideas that TNA needs to display to its fans if it hopes for this feud to succeed to the greatest degree possible is this mystifying demeanor possessed by each wrestler. Granted, since debuting in TNA, Raven has dropped the gloomy, depressed persona that made him a legend in ECW and has instead became far more “human,” so to say (much like Kane when he first began speaking regularly). However, not even this fact can detriment the uniquely fascinating aspect of the storyline, which it may’ve ended up doing if TNA had booked the feud differently. The promotion has redeveloped at least a part of Raven’s past mystique with the mind games he’s been playing on Sabu. The fans are left in the blue as to what he’s going to pull out of his sleeve next in order to confuse his arch-enemy. Perhaps most importantly, though, TNA was intelligent enough to realize that Raven needed to be a heel for this feud to fully succeed. If he had remained a face (as he had been ever since his first TNA appearance) during this program, it wouldn’t have been possible for him to readopt some of the slyness that so marked his ECW persona. WCW, the WWF, and even ECW made attempts to endear him to fans, but – besides for TNA – he never was a major draw while in a face role. That helps show that in his best form, Raven is a heel, and in order to capture the nostalgic mystique of a Raven vs. Sabu feud, TNA needed to convert him to a bad guy and were right in doing so. Raven and Sabu weren’t just two of ECW’s top superstars. They were two ECW mainstays who the fans watched the every move of in hopes of learning just a little bit more about than what was displayed on-screen. However, the reason for this primarily sub-conscious desire on the part of the fans entirely depended on the wrestler. Sabu straight out refused to speak in public, which caused many fans to wonder what the man under the gimmick was like. Comparatively, Raven had little problem with cutting public promos, but even when he did, he was able to convey a devious – in some ways even psychotic – mindset. Together, that combination of personalities has made for one of the most intriguing feuds that pro wrestling has been able to offer in recent years. Now, the stage is set. TNA needs to take the initiative from this point on. Of course, both Raven and Sabu must be at their bests – both wrestlers health-wise and Sabu execution-wise – but from a creative perspective, the ball is in TNA’s court from this point on. The creative team must make the right booking decisions if it intends to capture the former-ECW spirit and nostalgia. In fact, part of that task has been done for the promotion already. TNA has under contract two wrestlers whose names are indelibly etched in the annals of ECW notoriety, and these two competitors are willing to do whatever TNA management specifies to intensify this program each Wednesday and Thursday night. The rest of the task relies on TNA conveying to its audience the nostalgia-based intrigue of the inaugural singles match between these two mysterious beings. Once the match has happened once, that “first time” appeal is gone forever. So, tomorrow night the promotion must avoid the erroneous booking that has led to it previously botching other main event storylines. Either the aura of each superstar and of the matchup itself is reflected by TNA’s booking decisions in the near future, or Raven vs. Sabu will drop down to the drawing power of just another Raven vs. Douglas or Sabu vs. Sandman match. Natural history has developed the ideal buildup for this rivalry, but buildup alone means nothing unless TNA can deliver, and tomorrow night is when everything is on the line for the organization. At one point in their careers, Raven and Sabu could put on a match with drama that religiously glued fans to their TV sets. Are they still up to the task? In less than 24 hours, we’ll find out. Tune in tomorrow night (Wednesday, August 24) to your local cable or satellite provider as TNA Wrestling broadcasts one of its most highly-anticipated Pay-Per-Views in its two-year history at 8 pm EST/5 pm PST. Check out TNAWrestling.com for more info. Also, someone let me know the link to the TNA message board because I want to post this there. What's the link? Thanks in advance.
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Looks alright. Kash vs. Styles should be fun.
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The Story of XTREME PRO WRESTLING
LucharesuFan619 replied to LucharesuFan619's topic in General Wrestling
The link to the flyer should work now. I re-ul'ed it. The next part focuses on the rise of Extreme Associates and Rob Black meeting Lizzy Borden. Then we get into the wrestling as Verne Langdon talks about the Slammers Wrestling Federation, and details about the Rob Black/ECW discussions are told. Ya, overdetailing stuff has always been a weakness of mine. I'll try to work on that. I'm hoping to have the answer of whether this big name wrestler will be contributing in the next few weeks. I'll keep you posted. -
The Story of XTREME PRO WRESTLING
LucharesuFan619 replied to LucharesuFan619's topic in General Wrestling
PART ONE: The Story of XTREME PRO WRESTLING Written by Jonathan and originally printed on Saturday, July 31, 2004 Feedback can be sent to [email protected]. How many entertainment industries that exist have are more controversial than professional wrestling and pornography? With storylines that have touched on every subject one could think of – from public crucifixion, necrophilia, and racism to female degradation, gay marriage, and mental retardation – pro wrestling has become no longer suitable for the entire family, as it was just a couple of decades ago. Likewise, pornography was a central concern during the Nixon administration and is recently returning to the public eye again, thanks to the revelations that some of its actors and actresses unknowingly possessed AIDS or other sexually transmitted diseases during their active careers. Consequently, each business have sparked more than its fair share of mainstream disapproval in recent years. Each, that is… As it presently stands, most people consider pro wrestling and pornography two completely different industries. Granted, both target similar fan bases (young to middle-aged males), but these two facets of “entertainment” aren’t about to officially “combine” anytime soon. However, what about if they were to be intermixed with one another? In what manner would America’s citizens react to an atmosphere where wrestlers were to make cameos in porn productions and porn stars were to appear on wrestling cards? Furthermore, who in God's name would ever dare to engage in such a risky venture, from the perspectives of both finances and reputation? The man’s name is Robert Zicari. As the mastermind behind the Chatsworth, CA-based Extreme Associates pornography corporation and former-companies Extreme Video and Xtreme Pro Wrestling, Zicari – better known by his porn alias of “Rob Black” – is the most controversial man in perhaps the two most controversial industries on Earth: wrestling and porn. And about a year ago, all of it – the lawsuits, the Internet and dirtsheet critics, the debts, the disgruntled ex-employees, the rival conglomerates – it may have all finally caught up with him. On August 27, 2003, Zicari and his wife, former-porn actress and now director Janet Romano (known professionally as Lizzy Borden), were indicted by the federal government for selling obscene videos across state lines (specifically into Pittsburgh, PA). The incident represented the first major pornography bust in the past decade and thus, Zicari and Romano are left to fight the charges while simultaneously trying to run Extreme Associates on a daily basis. Controversy, however, is nothing new to Rob Zicari. In fact, many observers of both the wrestling and porn side of things believe that controversy is what motivates him, perhaps even what he lives for. And judging by his past, this assessment may not be too far from the truth. Before he became the notorious figurehead in the California porn world who is currently facing up to 50 years in jail, Rob Zicari – who hails from Sicilian ancestry – was a native New Yorker, having grown up on the streets of Rochester. He participated in the Golden Gloves Boxing league as a teenager ("I was in decent shape, but it was either go to the Catskills and get beaten up for the rest of my life, or go to college," Zicari reminisced in a 1998 Adult Video News interview.) and he even aspired to be a DEA agent for a short while. However, none of this was meant to be; Rob Zicari dropped out of college in order to enter the industry in which he'd become an icon like few others – pornography. And quite frankly, this decision didn’t come to a great deal of surprise from those who knew him well. After all, the profession had surrounded Zicari for most of his adolescence. Four years before Rob was even born, his father, Dominic, had become the first person in the Western New York area to own adult entertainment bookstores. Within only a few years, Dominic operated about 40 different “peep shops” – as they were called – in the region. According to Rob in his first interview with Roger T. Pipe of RogReviews.com in September 2000, the Zicari family "never had pornography around the house," but young Rob was fully aware of his father’s vocational endeavors. In fact, Dominic Zicari often bought along his son to his porn shops for the day: "I would go in through the back to the office. There was no porn around, but I would sit and roll quarters from the peep machines. That was my job. When I was done, my dad would give me a couple of rolls and I would go to the batting cages. I was like fourteen with a hundred dollars in f*cking quarters." Having been raised in an atmosphere like this one, Zicari’s exposure to the more sexually explicit forms of amusement at an earlier age than most people isn’t overly surprising: “As I hit puberty, [my dad] would go downstairs and I would grab all the stuff I could. I was jerking off to DP’s and sh*t when kids were just looking at Penthouse.” Dominic wasn’t the only member of the Zicari family who made a living out of promoting adult entertainment. Dominic’s younger brother (by about 10 years), Charles “Chuck” Zicari (better known as pornographer “Chuck Zane”), had worked as a shoe vendor before the brothers’ grandfather (Rob Zicari’s great grandfather) convinced them to begin working together in the early 1980s. Initially, all Dominic was willing to give to his brother was the position of manager in one of his shops, but he eventually transferred to him ownership of that entire store and – soon thereafter – the brothers partnered up in 1983 to establish their own porn company, Zane Entertainment. However, it wasn’t long before Dominic lost his prominence in the adult entertainment industry during the eighties when the government got a hold of Zane Entertainment’s contentious 1986 production, “Backside to the Future.” At that time, the government was already cracking down on the content of pornography (in large part because of the famous Tracy Lords scandal of that era) and Dominic was one of several pornographers to feel the repercussions. According to his son in the September 2000 interview by Pipe, Dominic ended up being arrested about 170 times tax evasion, selling obscene materials, and other crimes during the late ‘80s. After he had been incarcerated a few times (although he’d have plenty more gigs in prison in the future in the future), Dominic Zicari was convinced that the expertise he once possessed in promoting porn was long gone, so he sold the stores that he owned to Chuck for about $150,000. Shortly thereafter, Chuck (whose son, Matt, is also a prominent name in the porn industry) hired a right-hand man, Frank DeLucia, to help him run the stores that he had bought from Dominic. Upon being released from his final prison sentence, Dominic went to Chuck and seeked the money shares of Zane Entertainment that Chuck had reimbursed him for, but Chuck gave him a “that was then, this is now” attitude and refused to pay him back. Ever since learned of how Chuck gave the cold shoulder to his older brother, Rob Zicari has hated his uncle. Zicari told Luke Ford in late 1998 that “if Chuck walked in that door, I’d punch him in the mouth. He’s the biggest piece of garbage in the world because he f*cks family. That's the worst.” However, physically compelling his younger brother into returning the monetary stakes of Zane Entertainment that he was owed wasn’t an option to Dominic Zicari. “It is his little brother. What is he going to do?” Rob asks Luke Ford. “My dad is very Italian [devoted to family]. He’s very loyal. You don’t beat up family.” So, what Dominic did was leave Chuck to be, and initially, it appeared that that strategy was working fine because Chuck was digging his own hole. He led Zane Entertainment filed into bankruptcy only a few years after Dominic’s ownership of the peep stores was transferred to his name. However, with the assistance of porn veterans John T. Bone and Max Hardcore (real name: Paul Little), Chuck was able to struggle his financial slumps and eventually relaunch what was basically “version 2.0” – so to say – of Zane Entertainment. The company is still an active competitor in the adult film market to this day (it’s mainly ran by Chuck’s son, Matt). Rob Zicari’s first direct involvement in the porn business came when he began attending the annual Consumer Electronic Shows in Las Vegas each January. Despite being only a teenager at that point, he gained plenty of acquaintances who worked in the business, one of whom was famous porn actor and director Tom Byron (real name: Thomas Taliaferro). When he and Byron first met slightly less than a decade ago on the set of a porn movie (this was the first time that Zicari had seen one shot live, although obviously far from the last), Zicari was only about 20 years old, while Byron was in his early thirties. Byron initially resented Zicari’s excessively inquisitive demeanor, believing him to be "kind of the opposite of [his own] personality" and especially "boisterous," according to Pipe’s May 2000 interview with him. That didn’t matter to Zicari, though. His curiosity got the best of him and he became infatuated with the industry Byron was a legend in, and he’d soon follow the same path and devote all of his time to adult entertainment. Around the time that they first met one another, Zicari and Byron attended the AVN Awards Show together. Byron drove Zicari to the show, but refused accompany him in and instead handed him his business card. Zicari tried to contact Byron for advice in 1988 when he began to plan the filming of his first porn movie (entitled “Tender Loins 2”). However, Byron didn’t return the young Zicari’s calls and in fact didn’t really want anything to do with him. That left Zicari to make a choice that may’ve led to him changed the course of his life forever (from his mayoral candidacy to the current trial to possibly whether XPW was ever formed) had he acted differently in any sort of way. Desperately wanting to direct his own porn film, Black was determined to go through with the task whether he had Bryon’s help or not. Without any prior full-time job or even college background, Zicari was basically broke at the time, and as a result, he used the money that his father had designated as his college funds and flew in a crew to New York shoot the movie (entitled “Tender Loins 1”): “I…used my college money. Basically, it was money I wasn’t authorized to use. I basically stole the money to shoot the first movie.” For the most part, Black stopped using his college savings account after “Tender Loins 1” was completed. Over the next few years, he started building near Rochester a company that – around 1993/’94 – became officially known as Extreme Video. It was during the rise of Extreme Video that “Rob Black” was born. According to his 2001 interview with PBS, Zicari wanted the name to be more than just an alias. He intended for Rob Black character to be “this demonic-like figure, this boisterous, obnoxious person. And I'm going to direct movies that are just out there." And the movies directed by the newly-dubbed Rob Black were “out there.” Pornography is obviously not considered politically correct by most communities, but pornographers at this time (during the early ‘90’s) were recovering from the Nixon administration’s concentrated effort on the industry. With the knowledge of how the government had taken action against Dominic Zicari and others unlike him, most directors aimed to comply as much as possible with society’s standards of acceptability. Extreme Video wasn’t one of those companies. Extreme Video refused to conform. Extreme Video was constructed as an alternative to an industry that the Rob Black believed wasn’t living up to its purpose: “I sat back and I said, ‘Well, you never see movies that are edgy. You never see movies that are just entertaining. It's either just an all-sex movie or it's a plot about the pizza guy who delivers a pizza, and the girl doesn't have money, so she has sex with him for the pizza.’ I sat there and I said, ‘Let's get a representation of life, the grittier edge.’” (2001 PBS interview) Despite only lasting a few years, Extreme Video’s movies served as previews of the brash attitude and outrageous content that would become a signature of Rob Black’s work in the coming years. However, not everybody was happy with what Rob Zicari had become and what he was doing. Upon learning how his son’s college money had been misallocated, Dominic Zicari was certainly no happy camper. He first learned of his son’s financial dishonesty when the filming of “Cellar Dweller” (Rob’s second movie) was completed and gave him a call: “My dad said ‘When you get home, we have to have a conversation.’ I knew I was in trouble. He confronted me, ‘you stole this, you stole that’ and I was like ‘yeah, but I’m going to make all this money.’ It became a shouting match – ‘F*ck you,’ ‘No – f*ck you,’ and I just left.” (September 2000 interview with Roger T. Pipe) This was 1996. Rob Black – then in his early 20s – no longer had the desire to live around the rules and limits that his father demanded he abide by. He had a vision of what he wanted to accomplish in the porn industry and he wasn’t going to get there while living in New York. So, he’s and his girlfriend, Tricia Devereaux (whom he had first met while directing her in “Cellar Dweller”) moved to California, where he’s lived ever since. It was a year and a half before he and his father returned to speaking terms with another and in that time, Rob Black’s life was about to travel down a pathway that he never nor his family ever could’ve envisioned. -
If you're really looking to get a basic gist of Lucha, there's NO web site better than vivalaluchalibre.net. There's a section specifically devoted to introducing new fans to Lucha's stars. Once you want to get more advanced, go to highspots.com/laarena (I think that's the URL; if that doesn't work, just type in "La Arena highspots" at yahoo.com), but not until you've read through a fair amount of vivalaluchalibre.net.
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Good job so far.
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http://www.geocities.com/xpw5yearslater/xp..._scan_final.jpg This is the ad that was placed in a local newspaper in California a few days before the debut XPW show. The old thread I made seems to have been deleted, so I'm making a new one. From now on, anything you want to say about this retrospective, any feedback, any questions, comments, whatever...and also the retrospective itself...will be posted in this thread. Unfortunately, the web site I planned on making will be delayed for a few more weeks. It will likely go up in about a month, but it's not going to be online for tomorrow, as I hoped. What's so special about tomorrow, you ask? At 11 pm EST on the dot, I will post the first part of this retrospective, in order to correspond as closely as possible with the start time of the debut XPW show that will have started five years ago tomorrow (July 31, 1999) in Reseda, CA at 8 pm California time. The first part of the retrospective will focus on Rob Black's start in porn. The results of that event saw: - Kris Kloss introduced the show and was interrupted by Damien Steele. Jasmin St. Claire appeared from Milwaukee via satellite and claimed to be the real "queen of extreme." - The first match in XPW history saw Principe Ultimate defeat Rico Suave - Phenomenal Phil pins Johnny Webb - Zarco pins Chilango in a Lucha Match. - Kid Kaos and Pancho Killa fought to a chaotic No Contest, but even when the decision was made, they continued brawling and the match therefore continued. Kaos eventually picked up the pinfall win. - Cybil pins Homeless Jimmy after an insane brawl. - Dynamite D defeated Chronic via DQ when Big Rott debuted and formed the Westside NGZ with Chronic. They proceeded to beat the shit out of Chronic, but were stopped by security before they could light him on fire. - In probably Supreme's best wrestling match ever in XPW (save maybe for his November 99 match vs. Kaos), Kristian Blood pins Supreme after a huge chairshot. This match aired on an early edition of XPW TV and is surprisingly really good. Both guys gave it their all. Featured a balcony dive by Kristian Blood. - Tom Byron and Ashlyn Gere host the Miss Xtreme Contest. Kristi Myst is pretty much unanimously picked as the winner, but after the contest ends, Damien Steele and his bodyguard, Basil, come out and court Kristi. Jasmin St. Claire again appears via satellite and introduces Big Dick Dudley, who decimates Damien and Basil to close out the show. The retrospective will be posted on: DeclarationOfIndependents.net, WTFBoards.com, The Oratory Forums, TNAWrestling.net, SoCalUncensored.com Forums, WZForums.com, XtremeForums.com, The Other Arena, WrestlingClassics.com Forums, here, and a couple of other places. Until the official XPW: 5 Years Later web site goes up, DeclarationOfIndependents.net will be the official home of the retrospective. I plan on trying to do something where some exclusive stuff will be posted on DOI that won't be posted anywhere else - i.e. photos and stuff like that, maybe - but the retrospective itself will be posted at all the places mentioned above. If you're interested in having the retrospective printed on your web site or message board, feel free to drop me a PM and chances are I'll be more than happy. Before I go any further, I want to send my best wishes to former-XPW superstar Vic Grimes and his family. Vic has been dealing with some health problems lately. Last Friday ( a week ago), he underwent surgery in Hayward, CA to stitch up his appendix, which had been giving him problems. Since he's such a large guy, the surgery really required that he stay in the hospital for like a week, but the doctors made the serious mistake of releasing him the next Monday, just three days later. Sometime after Monday - from the gist I got from the friend of Vic's I talked to, it happened earlier today, but I'm not 100% sure - the stitches burst and his appendix started bleeding very seriously. He was brought to the hospital again and his family and friends are awaiting word on his condition. I may have an update on him in a couple days, and I may not. Steve of SoCalUncensored.com will probably get some news hopefully. But whatever the case may be - my best wishes go out to Vic Grimes for a speedy recovery. Hang in there, man. The names listed above in the official preview are all 100% confirmed to contribute. There are still MANY other names that are being contacted in order to contribute to this retrospective. I'm working on getting a hold of a very big name in the business and should the answer of whether or not he'll contribute in about two weeks, probably less. A bunch of homegrown XPW workers that aren't listed below will probably end up contributing eventually. It's just a matter of contacting them. So, again, the names listed below ARE absolutely confirmed, but are NOT the ONLY people who will be contributing. There WILL be more. Here's the official preview: FIVE YEARS LATER – THE STORY OF XTREME PRO WRESTLING "Not only did it take my focus away, it sucked the life out of me, but you have to lose it all before you get it back again – instead of taking one of those 10-hour Tony Robbins seminars, it was a three-and-a-half-year course and it stripped us (Extreme Associates) of anger, hate, pride, everything, and it took everything from us to where we started over and that's what it did. I tried something and what echoes in my head all the time is my dad saying, 'Stick to what you know.' He preached it to me forever - I didn't listen to him, I didn't stick to what I knew, and I lost my @$$." - Rob Black, about XPW (2004 Adult Video News interview) From mid-1999 until early 2003, Southern California's Xtreme Professional Wrestling produced some of the most enthusiastic debate the world of United States independent wrestling has witnessed in recent years. It all started with a pornography mogul named Rob Black and his business associate, Tom Byron. Along the way, superstar wrestlers such as Sabu, The Sandman, Shane Douglas, Chris Candido, and Jerry Lynn made their presences felt in XPW rings. At one point, XPW possessed a nationwide TV deal (via satellite) with America One and its home videos were distributed across the country even before those of ECW were. Although XPW eventually shut down, not even it's bankruptcy has curtailed the mutterings about it, and in many ways the promotion changed the So-Cal independent wrestling landscape forever. In the next half a year, learn about the formation, the rise, and the ultimate fall of a promotion that at one point had everything going for it. You've heard the mutterings about Rob Black's association with ECW's Paul Heyman, but there’s so much more to that story than meets the eye. When it comes down to it, all the way back in 1989 was when the true roots of XPW began to take shape. Long before the XPW name was concepted by Sheldon Goldberg, what could be considered precursors of the promotion existed, including: Verne Langdon's Slammers Wrestling Federation (Slammers/SWF); Dynamite D, Kevin Kleinrock, and Patrick Hernandez' Southern California Championship Wrestling (SCCW); and Doc Marlee's United Independent Wrestling Alliance (UIWA). Before they were appearing across the United States on XPW home videos, XPW's homegrown superstars were crafting their ability on the So-Cal independent circuit. Exactly one-third of the competitor's who performed on XPW's debut live event back in July 1999 credit their initial training to a man named Verne Langdon. Trained by The Fabulous Moolah and Tor Johnson many years ago, Langdon established the SLAMMERS WRESTLING GYM's UNIVERSITY OF PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING in Southern California in 1989 and, two years later, the Slammers Wrestling Federation. He’s responsible for overseeing the training of The Messiah, Angel, Johnny Webb, Homeless Jimmy, Dynamite D, Carlito Montana, and other XPW superstars. Langdon is one of several names who've agreed to contribute both historical information and textual quotations to this retrospective. Other contributers will include: - XPW homegrown superstars such as GQ Money, Carlito Montana, "White Trash" Johnny Webb, Leroy The Ring Crew Guy, Steve Rizzono, Pogo the Clown, and several others. - Freelance veteran wrestlers Chris Hamrick and Mike Modest will talk about their time working for XPW. - So-Cal manager JR Benson talks about what it was like to travel with the APW boys to XPW shows from 2001-2002 and his experience managing SNUFF in XPW. - Joe LaChance – the current promoter of Connecticut Championship Wrestling – will discuss how he did promotional work for XPW during 1999. - Plus, former-ECW superstar, current-ECW wrestler, and Philadelphia Athletic Commission executive Rockin’ Rebel speaks about dealing with XPW’s attempts to obtain a promoter’s license to run in Philly during 2002. As of now, there are a number of other former-XPW wrestlers and employees in the process of being contacted and in the coming weeks and months, even though this retrospective is soon getting underway. More names will be announced as playing a role in this retrospective. Very rare photos that will be featured in the retrospective include: - NEVER-before-seen, pre-XPW photos (straight from the Slammers Wrestling Federation's archives) of the stars such as The Messiah, Johnny Webb, Homeless Jimmy, and Angel. Thanks to Verne Langdon for supplying these photos. - GQ Money posing with legends such as Stu Hart, Nick Bockwinkel, Greg Valentine, and others. - Photos from the EWF and UIWA of TOOL, “Iceman” John Black (a.k.a. Chronic), Kaos, Supreme, and other future-XPW superstars. - Very hard-to-find pictures of the XPW appearances by Tony Jones, The Tonga Kid, Mustafa Saed, and others. - VERY rare photographs from the NEVER-before-released, invitation-only Sabu Invitational House Show in 2001! Also included: - the story of Rob Black’s rise in the porno industry as the vilest and most crude director ever - never-before known facts about the details of the ECW/Extreme Associates negotiations - backstage stories straight from the XPW wrestlers about various XPW matches - the full scoop on Sabu’s international XPW title defenses in Japan, Mexico, and even a never-before discussed defense in England - information on past mainstream TV appearances of XPW superstars such as Johnny Webb, Damien Steele, Veronica Caine, Ron Jeremy, and Rob Black, both while they were with XPW and before the promotion was around - never-before-released details about storylines and angles that were planned for XPW, but ended up never seeing the light of day - scans of official XPW flyers - magazine scans of various XPW-related articles - Where are they now? – a section devoted ENTIRELY to the question of what ever single performer who worked for XPW (even now) is currently doing - the REAL story about the ECW HeatWave 2000 fiasco, from those who were there live (included: an ULTRA-rare interview with – of all people – Homeless Jimmy about what he experienced during the incident!) - details about what big-name wrestlers who attended XPW shows and were backstage at them, but never made in-ring appearances - the answer to the two most widely asked questions by XPW fans: “Who was under the monkey mask at Free Fall?” and “What’s the story with Altar Boy Matthew?” - results to very rarely-publicized XPW house shows, including one that featured a legit Shoot Fight that was sponsored by Antonio Inoki’s UFO organization and also the Sabu Invitational House Show - XPW-related quotes from very rare interviews with Rob Black, Doc Marlee, Donovan Morgan, and even the hardcore legend himself…SABU! (along with many other wrestlers not mentioned) - word-for-word copies of official XPW press releases, including the extremely hard-to-find one from June 1999 that announced the formation of XPW Some of the below people are contributing, while others supplied contact info for wrestlers. An extra special thanks go out to them for the reasons mentioned: - GQ Money: GQ provided some uniquely candid and thought-provoking commentary about his experiences in XPW, and was also more patient than ever could’ve been expected. Thanks very much for being so cooperative! - Verne Langdon: Verne supplied access to the Slammers photos archive, commentary about working with XPW superstars years before they made it to the big-time, and was responsible for getting in touch with some of the above contributees. - Roland Alexander: Roland supplied some contact info for some those people who are contributing to this retrospective. - Steve Bryant: Steve runs SoCalUncensored.com and helped contact one of the contributers that are listed above, and also provided some rare info about XPW that will be featured. THE GOOD “XPW was my WWF. I couldn’t have gotten any higher than I did.” – Steve Rizzono "I think XPW gets a lot of bad rap and has a horribly unjust bad reputation. Fact is, XPW ran for four years or so, which was four years longer than most people thought they would run...I think XPW had its own identity, and XPW walked with its head up high. A lot of companies put on shows that are just like something else. XPW took risks, and I'm glad I was a part of it." – GQ Money "I'll be happy to take millions and millions of [WCW’s] dollars and then come right back here to XPW, hoist this company on my back like I did ECW, and make this f*ckin' company a God d*mn player in the sport of professional wrestling!" - Shane Douglas, minutes after making his debut in XPW (XPW My Bloody Valentine: First Annual King of the Death Match Tournament; February 26, 2000) "It was fun, it was fast-paced, it was wild, it was hard work, and it was exciting. You never knew what was going to happen, and anything could happen. It was like a sitcom, or a movie, or a drama show all rolled into one...It was incredibly hard work and it took an incredibly hard working person to survive and keep a job there, but it was awesome." – GQ Money, about the atmosphere at the offices of XPW's parent company, Extreme Associates "XPW is not a stepping stone! Our guys that bust their @$$ [to] do what they do. It's not like UPW or Memphis. Nobody's striving to go to WCW or the WWF…They don't want to go to tryouts. They don't do it. And the couple of them that had the chance to go to (UPW owner) Rick Bassman and have that shot...they don't want to do it. Tracy Smothers is working with us and Tracy's like, 'Kid Kaos'...the one kid who was visible on the [ECW HeatWave 2000] tape...Tracy's like, 'You're real good. I want you to come to Memphis,' and the kid's like, 'I don't want to!' They want to make it in XPW and that's it." – Rob Black (July 18, 2000 ScoopsWrestling.com interview with Al Isaacs) "I've worked for twenty people in about ten different countries and about thirty states in the U.S., and God d*mnit – this crowd is the best crowd I have ever performed in front of!" – The Sandman, at XPW Halloween In Hell 2 (later renamed "Blown To Hell") "Who knows why they did it, who knows what they did it for?...If that promotion succeeds, that's great. There’s one more place for wrestlers to work." – current WWE superstar Rhyno (who competed in ECW as Rhino), about the XPW-ECW HeatWave 2000 altercation (SLAM! Wrestling) "I really don't know what happened with XPW and ECW, but the product itself needs a lot of work. That is why they got me to help. So, they're a long way away from being mainstream. That's for sure." – Sabu (January 2001 WrestleLine.com interview) “No matter what you read or hear, deep down, he is a decent guy. A lot of his bravado has to be taken with a grain of salt. He is a showman, but deep down he is a decent f*cking guy." – Tom Byron, about his best friend, Rob Black (Byron's first RogReviews.com interview, in May 2000) THE BAD "I feel bad for a lot of the guys that gambled their careers with XPW for those few months. I feel bad for some of the guys that were banking on XPW to give them full-time jobs." – CZW commentator Eric Gargiulo (2003 TheDDT.com interview with Doug Graham) "[XPW] came in here and I guess they decided to run us out and be the big shots." – CZW promoter John Zandig, about XPW's East Coast run (March 1, 2004 SLAM! Wrestling article, by Corey David Lacroix; stated by Zandig on the night of CZW's Fifth Anniversary Show in early 2004) "I quit XPW because I knew I could do better. They wanted me to do movies and I didn't want to. Period. If I have such a hard time getting along with people, why don't I have the same problem at ECW? That whole XPW company has no clue what they're doing." – Jasmin St. Claire (December 2000 Wrestling World Magazine interview) "I do feel that XPW were up to no good, as they're main goal was to kill Philly indy wrestling. I thought it was immaturity on XPW's behalf, and a smart idea when CZW, 3PW, and ROH all banned together to show that they weren't as tough as they thought they were. The fact that XPW took three wrestlers from CZW didn't help them, so it was a waste of money for them, and they did ruin three wrestling careers. That right there showed that it was a war XPW was never going to win." – CZW wrestler Nick Berk (2003 DeclarationOfIndependents.net interview) "No, they spell 'unprofessional.'" – future-XPW wrestler Simon Diamond, when asked if he agreed that the letters, "X-P-W" spelled "disaster" (September 1, 2000 WrestleLine.com interview with Matt Kahn) "I am glad that I never got my fingers or penis chopped off." – Mike Modest, about his experience working for XPW "I never felt accepted because I was never offered coke or sex. [frowns]" – Super Dragon, about his time in XPW (May 21, 2002 interview with Nate Hiatt) "CZW gives the fans what they want. XPW does what ever Rob (Black) wants to do. Rob could give a flying f*ck what the fans want. Rob is all about getting himself over. The joke I tell the boys is, ‘If you work at the (Extreme Associates) office, you get to become world champ.’ Hell, if Rob could put the belt on himself, he would. Zandig cares about the fans, and he doesn’t try to put himself over in every match. The differences between the two is that one fed cares about its fans and the other doesn’t." – The Messiah (February 21, 2002 interview with Nate Hiatt) The CANDID "We could never compete with the WWF, we could never compete with WCW, but we can compete with ECW, and we will continue to be a thorn on their side." – Rob Black (July 2000 Chairshots.com interview ) "All I ask, from what I've offered you over the years as 'The Franchise' – give us that opportunity. If we suck at that opportunity, then you have every right on September 1st to tell the world that we blew it, but if we come in on August 31st, give you a show that was entertaining, and if we live up to our expectations that I promised you, then please go online September 1st and tell the world that XPW wasn't so bad. They have a sh*tty reputation, but last night they put on a damn good show. That's all I am asking." – Shane Douglas' "sales pitch to the fans," as he worded it, for Hostile Takeover (August 27, 2002 shoot interview with Wrestling-News.com's Anthony DeBlasi) "Directing movies was no longer a challenge. The challenge for me was creating a company that could be an entertainment conglomerate…The challenge was to own a company, instead of making a hundred and fifty thousand to make a hundred and fifty million. The challenge is to have our own wrestling company, our own TV station, go out there and do that. That’s the challenge for me. That’s excitement.” – Rob Black, speaking about what motivates him to continue operating a pro wrestling company (Black's first RogReviews.com interview, in September 2000) “Back when ECW existed, we were a brash newcomer trying to attack the beloved establishment of ECW. Every major Internet writer was employed by ECW. 1Wrestling.com was owned Joey Styles and Bob Ryder, all the 1Wrestling.com people worked for ECW. We started out with this negative image after that…What it became was ‘our beloved ECW is gone, and you rat bastards are still around. That's f*cked up. So you know what? Instead of supporting you, we're just going to sh*t on you.’” – Kevin Kleinrock, about the Internet’s role in XPW’s downfall (July 2003 interview with SoCalUncensored.com’s Steve Bryant) "Everything I've done is a f*cking plan. I might not know how to structure a match or set up a good four-minute deal with hot tags and stuff. That's why I call Shane (Douglas) and have him work with us. That's why. But you know what? When it comes to promoting and marketing and hype and getting the hysteria, that's what I know how to do. I'm the #1 porno company in the land. Henceforth, it doesn't matter that our ring crew got beaten up (at ECW HeatWave 2000). It doesn't matter what anybody says. The only thing that matters is an hour after the Pay-Per-View, everybody had XPW on their website. Everybody had XPW on their lips." – Rob Black (July 18, 2000 ScoopsWrestling.com interview with Al Isaacs) “If nothing more – love him or hate him – Rob Black is a character. He did a lot of things that no one else really had the balls to do.” – Kevin Kleinrock (July 2003 interview with SoCalUncensored.com’s Steve Bryant) ECW HEATWAVE 2000 "I know you guys are impressed.” – a sarcastic Rob Van Dam, to a ringside Kid Kaos, after executing a high-risk maneuver at ECW HeatWave 2000 (a few hours before the famous altercation) "Come on, you son of a b*tch! You c*cks*cker!" – a paraphrased transcript (according to Rob Black's 2000 ScoopsWrestling.com interview) of Paul Heyman's words to The Messiah, after whacking the XPW wrestler in the back of the head as he was being escorted out of the building at ECW HeatWave 2000 "You c*cks*ckers! You come here and we'll kick your ass! F*ck Rob Black!" – a paraphrased transcript (according to Rob Black’s July 18, 2000 ScoopsWrestling.com interview with Al Isaacs) of Paul Heyman's words towards the XPW ringcrew, while they were being attacked in the parking lot of the Grand Olympic Auditorium by ECW wrestlers at ECW HeatWave 2000 "Your career is done/over. You're never going to work in this business." – a paraphrased transcript (according to accounts of the incident in The Messiah's late 2002 Smart Mark Video shoot interview and an official XPW press release following the HeatWave incident) of what Tommy Dreamer said toward Supreme, as the XPW wrestler was being escorted out of the building at ECW HeatWave 2000 "They were trying to make a name for themselves off of us, but all that came out in the end was that they made fools of themselves, and they embarrassed themselves. There was no way they were going to get any good out of it." – former-ECW and eventual XPW superstar Jerry Lynn, about the XPW-ECW HeatWave 2000 altercation (SLAM! Wrestling) "I am truly saddened by the lack of professional courtesy shown by the [XPW] workers. What I mean is – we all do the same thing and for someone to be in the biz and not once acknowledge the workers in the shows is a huge insult, not only to the worker in front of you, but to the biz as a whole and not once did the XPW group at the very least acknowledge the awesome job done by all the workers in ECW. It shows that the disrespect that I thought was just Rob Black's I now see in all of the XPW group." – Doc Marlee, one day after the XPW-ECW HeatWave 2000 altercation (official statement in response to Rob Black’s July 18, 2000 ScoopsWrestling.com interview with Al Isaacs) "If they (ECW) ever come back (to California), it's going to be a whole other world of f*cking sh*t. They'd better think twice about coming back to our f*cking town to do a show because if they do come back expect not five guys. Expect 25 workers and 25 ring crew guys around ringside. They'd better be sure that Chris Chetti and all their little prelim guys who went out and beat up our ring guys can handle 50 guys storming that f*cking place. That's not a promise, that's not a threat...that's a guarantee. I hope they come out again next month. And I'll be there like General Patton, leading the charge." – Rob Black (July 18, 2000 ScoopsWrestling.com interview with Al Isaacs) AND SO MUCH MORE Learn the entire story about a promotion that’s surrounded by misconceptions. From the beginnings in the porno industry of Rob Black to his friendship with ECW's Paul Heyman…from the XPW’s debut show 4 years and 20 weeks ago to the signings of stars such as Sabu, Shane Douglas, and Chris Candido…from the interpromotional agreements with FMW, Revolution Pro, and IWA Mid-South to the TV deals with America One, KJLA, and WGTW…from the creations of current indy stars like The Messiah, Kaos, and Angel to the controversies of Supreme's fire bump, Vic Grimes' 40-foot “Free Fall,” and the New Year's Revolution 2 ads…from the 2002-03 invasion of Philadelphia to XPW’s eventual folding – all of this, and so much more, will be presented in Five Years Later - The Story of Xtreme Pro Wrestling.
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Give me tips for making a wrestling music video
LucharesuFan619 replied to LucharesuFan619's topic in Technology
OK, sorry to bump. I'm gonna do three videos with the following songs: "My Sacrifice," by Creed, "Numb," by Linkin Park, and "When I'm Gone," by 3 Doors Down. I have LP and Creed, but I need to find a copy of a long verson of When I'm Gone. Kazaa doesn't work for me. It just completely screws up my computer. I've done searches on yahoo for various combinations of "3 doors down when im gone audio download mp3 wav" and the only thing I can find is a midi copy of the song, but it's weird. It's like...not the song. It's at http://www.findmidis.com/download.go/1649 , and it plays fine for me, only it doesn't have the words, and its a weird version of the song...its as if it was played with only selected instruments. It's clearly not the professional version (if that's what you'd call it). Where can I find the real version of the song for download? You'd be helping a lot, because I can't start on that MV before I have the song. -
It's an autographed Shawn Michaels lifesized cardboard standup. I don't know if I'd sell it. For the right price, I guess.
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Wooo...WWE.com mentioned Sabu. That's gotta be like a first...
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CZW Tournament of Death 3 Results!
LucharesuFan619 replied to Nevermortal's topic in General Wrestling
Let's hope Zandig actually pays his workers this time and doesn't bounce any checks like he did to Terry Funk the last time. Actually airing the PPV on the day they announce would also be another good start. -
Ya, I remember that. Pro Wrestling Illustrated reprinted its article about that a few months ago in a recent issue.
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I just thought of something... let's get this straight - this promotion lasted for such a short time that we were able to start a thread devoted entirely to it, keep that thread, see the beginning of the promotion in that thread, and see the end of it in the thread, too. WOW.
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Jay, please don't ban me for saying this, but Jesus fucking Christ. This is just insane. Everyone was right. WOW, just WOW. About what Soylent Green Is People had to say about this - I'm not all that shocked (although I was sure that after being so stupid and having to cancel the first show, and messing up with MLW, they'd get it right this time), I'm just in awe at how unorganized a "business man" could be.
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Perry Saturn makes his return to the ring
LucharesuFan619 replied to Rob E Dangerously's topic in General Wrestling
Absolutely. This is unfortunate to hear. I have a lot of respect for Perry after reading this. -
In the ROH match vs. Low Ki, it was meant to be a Springboard Shooting Star DDT, but Ki was in the wrong place and Fleisch landed a piledriver instead. It wasn't intentional.
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My sig says it all (and has for the last three weeks or so, since I first added it) when it comes to the subject of Chyna and X-Pac's relationship.
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Isn't an NLB sorta like a bodyslam lift into an inverted DDT? That move has always confused me. It looks so different when its done in Japan compared to when Al Snow does it.
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With Tony Jones disappearing from the face of the earth, the indy circuit could use another amateur guy who can adjust well to the entertainment side of wreslting. Too bad they probably have no interest in TNA...actually, considering TNA would use them horribly, that may be a good thing.