Some Guy

Uh....he came from ECW? So did the Dudleys and they showed up about a two months before Taz did. So it's not like it was unprecendented at the time for Vince to push ECW guys. I know he buried far more than than he pushed.

Was there any reasoning beyond "he's too short" or "he's an asshole" for the WWF not pushing Tazz? I never understood this one. He got huge pops everywhere and had the ability to draw them money.

Doesn't the fact that Goldberg is such a mark for himself lead you to think that he might have glossed over some of the less-than-flattering details of his career? Why would he say htat he lost to Chad Fortune, who was a jobber everwhere and deny losing ot Hector who was a big star in Texas and Mexico and a good worker? I'm not sticking up for Goldberg, but that would seem kind of strange for him to deny one loss but admit to another. He claims in the book that he had no problem losing to Fortune because he got paid the same either way. Apparently his tune changed at some point in the next year or so. Either way, who cares? Goldberg will most likely not be back in WWE, so chances are we'll never see him in a wrestling ring again, unless he does a show in Japan or TNA hits the lottery and can afford him.

I can't figure out where the money is in this gimmick. It makes no sense. With the Iron Sheik and Volkoff they had Hogan, the all American type guy to take them out. Now there is no one in WWE with a gimmick like that. So every guy who feuds with them would have to change his character to make the feud feasable. Plus it draws negative heat, X-Pac heat. People aren't booing because they want to pay money to see them get beat up, they are booing because they want them to shut and get out of the ring. Times haev changed since the 80s when this shit flew. The Iran Hostage crisis and the Soviet Union and the exploitation of those were very different from the explotation of 9/11. You'd think Vince would have learned from WM 7. Exploiting war and the death of Americans is just poor taste and does nothing but hurt the company's bottomline and already horrible reputation. It also doesn't help when you allow the heels to make better arguments than the faces. "Love it or leave it" really has no place in a debate.

The Hector thing is an urban myth. IN his book Goldberg says that he did a job for Chad Fortune of Techno Team 2000 fame at WCW Saturday Night taping in his 2nd or 3rd match, not to Hector. I remember the Piper thing and Goldberg doesn't mention that in his book. For the record I did not buy Goldberg's shitty book. My sister got a free copy after she edited an excerpt that was in Playboy, when she did an internship there. So she gave the her copy for X-Mas one year. The book is horrible shows just how big a mark Goldberg really is for himself and wrestling in general.

I agree in theory, but who the hell does WWE have to challenge Bradshaw? Cena is a crappy worker and Angle, Taker, Eddy, etc.. has been done to death. That didn't bother me as much as him beating both Booker and Shane in a handicap match the next month and Booker getting emoted to teaming with Test afterwards. Oh yeah? Two words: Draft Lottery. I could easily see Hunter switching himself over to SD! so he could "save the show" by making a hasty face turn, putting himself over JBL, and then quickly turning heel again, you know, to make sure that the last 9 months the WWE spent building up JBL goes to complete waste. Then he could further help out the promotion by programing himself with Cena and giving him the Booker/RVD/Kane treatment. That and the return of Steph to SD! to feud with him will really help. The sad thing is that I could really see it happening, but not before he beats Batista at WM 21 and then vacates the belt, so Raw would have no credible World Champ and he could claim that Raw suckign after he left was because he wasn't there to hold it together anymore.

What I don't get is why Jesse's WCW commentart can't be used. Presumable WCW and Ventura had an agreement ofsome sort, because WCW released their PPVs on VHS. I assume that Vince would have inherited that agreement when he bought WCW. And if not, why not just see if Jesse would extend whatever agreement he has about WWF footage to WCW footage. I was really pissed when I got the Foley DVD and and the Ausitn "What?" DVD and it was just Tony talking to himself with long pauses in between. They should have at least gotten Foley and Coach to do an alternate commentarty track.

Sure Hall and Hennig were past there prime, but both were still decent enough that Austin should have gotten a decent match out of them. Hennig still bumped all over the place and Hall was willing to cooperate (if he wasn't he certainly would have said "You know Steve, don't you think you beating both Kev and I within an inch of our lifes on the biggest show of the year might not be the best thing for our careers?" Austin was just wasn't putting forth any effort at this time. Even his promos were lazy. Doing the Beverly Hillbillies theme song so the fans could yell "What?" after every line is not really putting forth an effort. WHile it was funny it was just a waste of time. I fail to see haw that would lead to a money match, unless he was going toe to toe with Jed Clampet at WM. Austin vs Jericho sucked. Austin was pouting during this period. All he did in the Jericho match was throw a bunch of chops and yell "What?" a lot. I lost a lot of respect for Austin in 2002, starting with his non-effort and then the walkout and wife beating stuff.

won't happen...Vince doesn't have any more daughters (at least, that we know of). I know, but that push started before HHH started fucking Steph. It's my understanding that they got together after the marriage angle in Dec 99. And since pickign HHH was sort of arbitrary (he was very over as a mid-card face while in DX, but never taken seriously by the fans because of his gimmick and his sub-par ring work), they might as well choose a guy and push him to the moon. The major problem I see is that the tow "locker room leasers" of WWE don't seem willing to put guys over, despite the fact that they've been put over everybody else on their way to the top. The one thing I can't figure out about HHH and Taker is where the massive egos came from? Neither have been big draws on their own. The only time they drew when Taker was champ was 99 when Austin was carrying the load (he had the belt for 3 day in 91 and his reign in 97 wasn't the reason for the WWF's improvement during that year) and Rock was doing it for HHH in 2000. Since then both guys have failed ot set the world on fire or draw a crowd or decent buyrate.

I agree with JustCoz. There's no susprises. There can't be because there is no competition to take talent from. No one can just show up and already have an established name, they've run through Hogan, Hall, Nash, Steiner, Goldberg, DDP, etc... and fucked up with them for the most part. I think they need to make the two shows completely different. No more SD! Rebound on Raw. No more duel brand PPVs. No more acknowedging the other show, except to take the occasional pot shot. Change the ring on SD! to a WCW style ring. Lose all the WWE logos and concentrate on pushing the brands instead. Set up the idea that guys on each show have contracts with that show, not an overall contract with WWE and that those contacts can expire. Treat it like it was when there was WCW and WWF. If someone's contact runs out, you don't talk about it on TV, the guy just shows up on the other show and starts there. Forget the draft lottery and all that. Someone mentioned that the shows have had the same format for years now. It's true and it's boring. Mix it up a little. Lose the long ass promos. Have HHH drop the title to someone and then take a month long vacation so the other guy can, you know, get over as champ without some big nosed, juiced up, feather haired motherfucker still taking up all the TV time and being presented as the biggest star. They cut Benoit, Jericho, Orton, and Goldberg all off at the knees because they refused to portray them as the biggest star on the show. They need to pick a guy and push him the same way they pushed HHH. They gave HHH months and months and the world title 3 times before he got over and that took 2 straight, decisive and clean wins over Foley. Give someone else that push and that patience.

Ausin vs. Booker T: Late 2001 Ausitn vs. Hennig: Feb 2002 Austin vs. Jericho: NWO 2002 Austin vs. Hall: WM 18 Austin didn't try at all during this period. He absolutely dogged it in all three of these matches. The Booker and Hennig matches should have been 3-4 stars but sucked and he obviously didn't want to work with Hall and he pretty much single handedly killed Hall and Nash's heat by kicking the shit out of both of them at once, not to mention the stupid taping Hall to a chair and torturing him angle that led up to the match. HBK vs HHH: HiaC Bad Blood 2004 I hated this match. Neither Shawn nor Hunter bump enough now to match a HiaC match entertaining.

She looks like a coked out gypsy.

There's is a link to a picture of her *ahem* genitals in the sex tape thread in this forum. She's a little different looking down there then most women, to say the least. This woman's life seems to be falling apart. I do feel a little sorry for in that she basically got blackballed from WWF because her boyfriend started fucking Vince's daughter. But at least she's not on me TV anymore. Score one for HHH, I guess.

I have the match on one of those Austin the early days DVDs (I don't remember which one I have 3 or 4 different ones). It sucks, Taker wins with a leg drop.

If I remeber right, Vader's story is that he was injured and Bischoff started dicking around with him and made him go do promos, when he got there Orndorf was being a prick, Vader had some less than kind words to say in return and Orndorf attacked him and Vader refused to fight back. Meng (Haku) broke it up. Orndorf's story is that he beat the shit out of Vader, who couldn't fight back because Orndorf is so tough. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle as both Vader and Orndorf are known as pretty tough guys.

There you go. Oddly the only match on the Hall of Fame DVD that I didn't bother to watch happened on my birthday.

But Orton throws a great dropkick. Bias towards: HBK: He was the reason I got back into wrestling in late 95 after a 2 year hiatus. I can admit when he was wrong or had a bad match though. Hogan: The reason I was a fan in the first place. And can admit when he was wrong and such. Scott Hall: I just like the guy's mic skills and the Razor's Edge. Goldberg: I like his short squash matches, he does it better than anybody. If the match goes over 5-10 minutes or talks he gets very exposed obviously. The Rock: He's put over three times as many guys than HHH, Hogan, and Austin combined. And he's funny and a good worker, despite the shitty Sharpshooter. Bias Against: Foley: I used to be a big fan but his rampant egotism as of late has soured me on him greatly. Austin: I'm not sure if it was his fault or not but when he was GM/Sheriff of Raw he made way too many of the active wrestlers look horrible. HHH: For the same reasons as everybody else. Taker: I haven't been a fan since 91 or so. Batista: He just strikes me as another goofy footed muscle head.

Actually, I think that Jesse's commentary on WWF footage was handled by the lawsuit. It is his commentary from WCW that Vince is scared of getting sued over. Considering Jesse's commentary is on the Hogan DVD as well as a few otehrs I don't think that a release of WMs on DVD would be a problem. The blurring also wouldn't be a problem for me as I already have 15-20 on DVD. I'd love to have 1-14 and 14 would have minimal blurring as they hadn't quite made the full switch over to the scratch logo by then. The turnbuckles and WM logo were still the block lettering.

Title match: Shawn vs. Diesel: Diesel wins clean with the Jackknife. Bret vs. Owen: Bret goes over with the Sharpshooter in 15 minutes, Backlund comes out and beats Bret down. Which leads to: Bret vs Backlund: Bret wins with an inside cradle in ten minutes. IC Title: Jarrett w/Roadie vs. 123 Kid w/Razor: Jarrett goes over after Roadie interference and Razor chases off Roadie so he can't make the save. Razor vs. Roadie: Razor over clean with the Edge. Taker vs. Bam Bam. Taker over clean with a bodyslam or Tombstone. Tag Titles: Luger/Bulldog vs. Smoking Gunns vs. Heavenly Bodies: I know they didn't do three ways then. Gunns go over when they hit the Sidewinder on Dr. Tom. Sid squashes everyone in a batteroyal (Including Mabel, Mantaur, Volkoff, and all the other garbage that was in the 95 Rumble. I know Sid was a heel but this would at least be mildly entertaining.

1.) Favorite world title match at the PPV? Cactus vs HHH 2000 2.) Favorite Rumble match? 92 and 97 for Austin being awesome. 3.) Favorite Rumble match elimination? Savage by Dusty at 90. Savage got back dropped out and was literally doing a handstand on the top before he went over. He went straight up and then over as opposed to going sideways. And HBK superkicking Nash out at 96. 4.) Favorite mini-match within the Rumble? Austin/Bret 97 and Hogan/Warrior 90 5.) Favorite non-world title, non-Rumble match? Rockers/Orient Express 91 and Dudleyz/Hardyz table match 2000 6.) Favorite pre-Rumble promo? Rock's Headbanger Mosh and Crash Holly promo from 2000. 7.) Things you hated besides Vince winning the '99 Rumble? Taker/Yoko casket match 94.

Sure Page had a few good matches and carried Goldberg, but he also scripted the match out move for move before hand and then just went through the motions of it. I don't think that makes him a good worker, more like a good writer. If the crowd had started to shit on his script he would have been lost in there with Greenberg. I've yet to hear a single one of Page's co-workers compliment his ring work and some have ripped it apart. They usually talk about how hard he worked and that type of shit.

I sort of figured we were talking average for WWF or WCW, not including Indies or even ECW, which had an alwaful fucking lot of average ot alwful workers. And Loss, I give up. But I still disagree with you on Sting and Rude, Rude especially. More guys I'd consider average: Savio Vega Ron Simmons Dustin Rhodes (who had flashes of above averagness) Road Dogg Ron Killings DDP

I remember Austin saying WWF when he returned as well as HBK saying it and then the next time making a big deal out of saying "WW EEEEEEEEEEE". JR and King slipped as well as a few others. They actually beeped Bobby Heenan saying it on the Hall of Fame DVD and then he went into a pretty funny rant about how many animals the WWF had and that the commentators were a weasel and a gorrilla. Can someone fil me in on how Vince let the trademark slip? I somehow managed to miss that story.

If this is Hulkamania what are there two Savage/DiBiase matches? I know Hogan interferes in the WM 4 match and I'm presuming he does in the 3/7 match but why include Savage's title win on Hogan's tape? BTW, I'm all over this when it comes out. I have Hulkamania 2 and 6 that I rented and dubbed and I'm a huge mark for nostalgia.

Sting had bad matches with bad workers and good matches with good workers. That's the very definition of average. He wasn't going to bring the quality up or down -- he was just going to keep up as needed. Sting had *great* matches with good workers like Rude, Foley, and Vader. He more than held up his end of the work in those matches. Average workers don't have a bunch of 4 star matches on their resume'. Well, he had a great match against Benoit as well. I know he was being carried in both that and the Foley match but he's also very young and improving. Now if he'd just stop doing HHH-lite promos and trying to be Rock he'd be on to much bigger and better things. Keep in mind HHH,who the board creamed their pants over in 2000 was a bad worker, below average until about 98 and then he was just an average worker with a great gimmick and passable mic skills and by that point he's been in WWF for 3 years which followed a year or 2 in WCW, Orton has been wrestling for what? 3 years total? He's further along than most guys are at that point in their careers. He's slightly above average now and probably will be pretty damn good within a year or two. OK, I'll cede Hall. I'm just a mark for his mic skills. Hey Yo! He is one of three guys (Savage and Hogan being the others) who could get 3 stars out of Warrior. He was above average and the hottest heel in business by far in '92. Test was a better worker than Orton, actually. Test's 2001 work, especially his match with Edge at Survivor Series, trumps Orton's efforts for most of the year in 2004. Test has had one match that I'd even call entertainind that was because Shane went out and killed himself for it. He had a decent match against Edge, ok. Albert had a decent match against Kane as well, are either of them above average? OK, he had a 3 star match against a world class worker, where Benoit basically squashed him and carried the whole load. Enos was a punch and kick guy. And he did get a bit of a push in WWF as a Bevetly Brother and he sucked then too. Brad Armstrong never got pushed and he was a very good worker. Being pushed and being a good worker is not mutually exclusive. Booker T is an average worker at this point he was pretty good in 97 and 98 though. John Cena is below average, I've yet to see tha guy get anything at all of out anybosy other Angle or Benoit and even then it wasn't much.