EVIL~! alkeiper

It wasn't who did the job as much as the manner in which it happened.

Ten big ones. Not a definitive list, but they all qualify IMO. In chronological order... Ivan Koloff over Bruno Sammartino (1/18/71) Andre the Giant over Chuck Wepner (6/25/76) Hulk Hogan over the Iron Sheik (1/23/84) Ultimate Warrior over Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania VI) Big Van Vader over Sting (Great American Bash '92) Yokozuna over Hulk Hogan (King of the Ring '93) The Giant over Ric Flair (4/22/96) Bill Goldberg over Hulk Hogan (7/06/98) Triple H over Cactus Jack (No Way Out 2000) Mike Awesome over Masato Tanaka and Taz (Anarchy Rulz '00) Bruno lost clean to Koloff after not losing for eight years. And this was an era where even heel champions lost controversally. Andre/Wepner established Andre as a national icon. Hogan beating Sheik clean sent a clear message after years of Hogan suffering b.s. finishes against Bockwinkel in the AWA. Warrior/Hogan in turn was Hogan's only clean loss from around 1982-1997. Vader-Sting established Vader as not only a dominant monster heel, but a main-event star. Yoko-Hogan was the one time Hogan not only lost, but got creamed. The Giant beat Flair in under five minutes, breaking the figure-four on brute strength. Goldberg-Hogan, same story. Cactus-HHH is self-explanatory. Taz lost cleanly in the Triple Threat, dropping the title on the way out and leaving Awesome/Tanaka alone for the belt.

Tomorrow I plan on catching Hagerstown (Nats) vs. Lakewood (Phils). Finally baseball in weather worth watching!

Most wrestling fans remember Dusty from his NWA run with Flair in the mid-80s. The Dusty that feuded with Superstar Graham in the '70s was one of the most popular wrestlers in history, second at the time only to Andre the Giant.

I think one way is to say, if you asked non-wrestling fans about a wrestler, how many would recognize the name? My top ten U.S. attractions, all time. I won't bother to rank them. Hulk Hogan Andre the Giant Steve Austin The Rock Buddy Rogers Gorgeous George Jim Londos Bruno Sammartino Dusty Rhodes Ric Flair The first eight were the top draws of their respective decades. Londos drew HUGE crowds on multiple occasions during his run, in the midst of the Depression no less. Buddy Rogers drew 38,000 to Comiskey Park for his NWA Title win.

It happens all the time. It's just that every time something like this happens, every other instance of a threat is reported on national news. You see the same thing with child abductions.

Certainly there were as many wrestling fans then. In the '70s single promotions were not as prevalent, but you had 20-30 regional promotions that all had their own stars and own fanbases. On the whole, more wrestling fans then attended live shows than today.

UTSU: So far I haven't encountered a Phillies loss that was caused by Manuel's managerial moves. To cite last year's Marlins is misleading. How would that team have done with a different manager? We don't know. That's the problem with evaluating a manager by his team's performance. There is no control group. Honestly, I agree that a manager is worth a couple wins a year, at best. As for Hamilton, I don't really know what he's capable of, I just know that this can be misleading. And for what it's worth, Roy Hobbs struck out in the novel.

Yes. This is NOT about Iraq in any shape or form. It is not to be discussed.

Won't help. From 50-100 plate appearances I just change the reference to Shane Spencer.

NYR, that list is too recent I think. Dusty Rhodes for example was easily one of the three most popular wrestlers in the '70s. (Andre and Bruno Sammartino were the other two.) I won't get into 1960s and before. Andre was a HUGE mainstream name. He's gotta be top five.

Let's not bring that talk into this thread. End it.

Cheap seats are $9. Do it.

Since their deals last year I don't think they've formed an identity yet. I think Aaron Harang is one of the overlooked great pitchers in the game today.

I am posting this here because I think WWE wrestlers would dominate the list anyway. Criteria are guys that are either active or would be active if not for injury. Steve Austin and the Rock are hugely popular, but they're not wrestling. Note I am asking this question based on fan interest, drawing power, etc. Nothing to do with workrate.

Probably because they linked to a six-minute pop song. Check the WWE Themes thread in this forum.

Sure, there's definitely some game theory at work here. They did have the advantage of a right-handed batter at the plate (Molina), Pujols is a decent, if not especially swift, baserunner, and the pitcher has his back to the play. It's the rest of the context that bothers me - Bengie Molina is no dummy, there are two outs on the board to begin with, and you're getting deeper into extra innings on the road. It just seems like there's just as many red flags as there are green flags with this situation, in my opinion. Wouldn't it be a better move with two outs than no outs? With no outs, it's inexcusable. And on the road in extra innings? You're playing for one run, and if you think you can get it, that can win you the game. If you tried this in the third with no outs, THAT would be a foolish situation.

I'm glad to see some hard data, as I still don't know of any stat site that gives breakdowns of steals of second, third and home. It would be interesting to see how many of those came on botched squeeze attempts, probably a significant number. It really is an intuition play though, because as a manager you're looking at the defense, and the idea is that you're catching the other team off-guard by doing something unusual.

It's a better move with two outs than any other situation. Yadier Molina has a .295 OBP, meaning he will make an out 70% of the time. Even if that move only works 35-40% of the time, it's still a better percentage move than letting Molina hit. Ryan Howard's getting an MRI on his leg today. Also, Felix Hernandez left the game in the first yesterday with soreness in his pitching elbow.

Voting runs through Saturday. Hulk Hogan vs. Bobby Heenan Gorilla Monsoon vs. Vincent J. McMahon

I guess if there was ever an instance of "feeding the troll," this is it. I'm swearing off 24 hour news. If something is truly important, the networks will break into regular coverage. Otherwise, it can wait for me to digest it from more civilized sources.

Mik: I think Rafael Furcal is one of the most underrated players in baseball today. I honestly don't understand how he's only made one All-Star team. There isn't a number that jumps out, but he does everything well and does it year after year. Hits for a good average, hits for power, draws walks, steals 25-40 bases, plays excellent defense, etc. Furcal edged Ramirez last year in win shares, but that was very close and you're in good shape if either are your shortstop. If Furcal maintains his present standard of play I'd take him but it's very close. Leena: I'm not altogether concerned about the bullpen. They pitched six scoreless last night before coughing up the game-winning run. You look at last night's loss and you have Rollins, Utley and Howard combining to go 0-16. It's hard to win like that. I think with pitching at a premium, you make the most of what you have and hope for the best. Don't be afraid to give minor leaguers (i.e. Eude Brito) a shot in the bullpen. One thing they need to do however is move Burrell between Utley and Howard. It's way too easy otherwise for a team to throw their situational reliever at us.

I agree. question about HIAC history....has every single HIAC match featured either UT or HHH? All but two. Mankind and Kane fought to a no contest in a match on Raw in August of 1998. Al Snow and the Big Bossman had their Kennel In a Cell match at Unforgiven '99.

To give an example, Gary Matthews. He had a nice season last year. Meanwhile, Johnny Damon did not make the team. Both had nearly equal seasons last year, Damon barely edged Matthews in OPS+ but Matthews was the better defender. Damon was better in '05, '04, '03, '02, '01, etc. Both are nearly the same age. In a situation like that, Damon gets the benefit of the doubt.

No, because Chase Utley is clearly the superior player. I am NOT talking about a lifetime achievement award.