EVIL~! alkeiper

"It's Raining Men"

That will also work if you are on Mozilla.

That reminds me. Anything Howard Eskin has ever said about Bobby Abreu.

I also find it amusing that the game in which Maris hit his shot was not sold out. The right field seats were packed, but left field was empty. Of course, it was the last game of a long-ago decided season, and many fans probably felt the World Series was more important.

Martinez would get my vote, but I doubt he'll make it.

Simply ask non-fans about 714 and 61. Then ask them about Walter Payton's record, or the NBA scoring title. Therein lies your answer. Its not that we fans recognize the statistics. Its that casual fans and even non-fans remember and recognize baseball's statistical lore.

Barry Larkin > Ozzie Smith, and that's coming from a person who worships Ozzie. And yes, Ripkin beats Larkin, but its doubtful he'll be out when Larkin comes up for election. Who else retired this year?

As Bill James points out, baseball statistics have acquired the power of language. When you give a stat in football or basketball, its just a stat. It doesn't carry much descriptive weight. But when you say that a player is a .300 hitter, its an adjective. You immediately form a vision in your head of that player's ability. Same with a twenty-game winner, or a 500 home run club member. The numbers carry descriptive weight, and they are intertwined with the history of the sport. How many of football's most memorable moments occured because of a career milestone, or a record breaking achievement? In baseball, we have Maris's 61st, McGwire's 70th, Aaron's 714th, etc. This complaining by fans is nonsense, for two reasons. One, you could say the exact same thing about the 1960s, when only Ruth, Mel Ott, and one or two others had hit 500 home runs. Then in the span of 20 years you had Ed Mathews, Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Harmon Killebrew, Willie Mays, Ernie Banks, Willie McCovey, and Mickey Mantle. Did they cheapen the achievement? You'd be hard pressed to find someone to say any of them weren't great players. There may come a time when a 500 home run hitter does not deserve the Hall. But its seems that it is not as easy as it looks. Fred McGriff, trapped ar 493. Jose Canseco collapsed at 462. Juan Gonzalez is at 434, and its doubtful he'll make it. The players now within reach are Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Gary Sheffield, Alex Rodriguez, Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell. If Sheffield makes 500 with his OBP, he's in the Hall. Same with the others. I can't think of an undeserving player within reach of 500 home runs right now.

Since Barry Larkin announced his retirement today, I figured I'd give nine reasons why he deserves baseball's highest honor. 1. Larkin earned 347 win shares, better than half of the current HOF. 2. Larkin appeared in twelve All-Star games. I would be hard-pressed to find any player with twelve All-Star appearances to his credit that did not reach the Hall of Fame. 3. Larkin hit 16% better than league average over the course of his career. 4. Larkin won three gold gloves, and likely would have won many more had he not been a contemporary of Ozzie Smith. Larkin's range factor is nearly .4 better than league average. 5. Larkin won an MVP award. 6. Larkin hit .353/.421/.529 in the Reds' sweep of the Oakland Athletics in the 1990 World Series, and holds a .338 career postseason batting average, with eight stolen bases in seventeen games. 7. Along with his 379 career steals, Larkin was caught just 77 times, for an 83% success rate. This is one of the ten best success rates of all time. 8. Larkin meets 46.9% of HOF Standards. 50% is the average mark. 9. No retired shortstop has a better case for the Hall of Fame. Larkin's numbers don't jump out at you, but when you take everything into account, the batting average, walks, power, speed, and defense, he produced more than many big sluggers of his day. I think Larkin is deserving of the Hall.

Damn. At least the roider is doing what he does in an effort to win.

Personally, I don't think today's records are tainted, anymore than pitching records are tainted from the dead-ball era. The records are a statement of fact. Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in 2001. No number of asteriks can erase the fact that somehow, it happened. Walter Johnson won 417 games. Do we care that Johnson got to throw a baseball that was scuffed, soaked, and spit upon? I haven't seen anyone lose sleep over it. A smart baseball fan knows that raw numbers are meaningless unlessed placed within context. Barry Bonds isn't going into the Hall of Fame because he hit 700 home runs. He's going in because he stood far above his peers. That's what makes a Hall of Famer. Was he on steroids? Almost certainly. But so were many of his competitors, it seems. And let's not forget this steroid epidemic is NOT related to hitters. Bonds certainly had to hit baseballs thrown by steroid-enhanced pitchers. Notice that strikeout marks are also at their highest levels since the early 1890s, when pitchers stood 50 feet from home plate. If Canseco were doing this for noble reasons, I might buy it. But he's ratting out what his teammates did as far as fifteen years ago purely in an effort to sell a book. He's at Pete Rose levels of whoring oneself.

I can't think of anything specific besides the Maris comments I posted a few days ago, but I'm sure if I listened to talk radio for the next ten minutes, I would have several.

Reading over this thread, I agree with the Goldberg title reign as the worst. WCW took the hottest wrestler they perhaps ever created, and managed to bury their World Title in the span of eight months.

Richie Ashburn and Harry Kalas

Thank god. Reggie owning the Athletics would have been an utter disaster.

Baseball-reference.com only allows 350 on a list. Thus quite a few are cut off.

The WWF rarely let little guys have much offense against big men in those days. Just the way the psychology worked. They had a program going with the Funks before Terry went and jumped ship. Their reign doubtlessly would have been longer, but Dynamite fucked his back in January, and the WWF needed a quick title switch. Their bad reign was more a product of bad circumstances than anything else.

Geez, play 26 games with Canseco as a rookie shortstop and you're branded for life. Is there an ex-teammate of Canseco's who DIDN'T take steroids?

I'm impressed. Roy Halladay's a potential top tier starter. Chipper Jones is a steal at round 11. Dallas McPherson will top 30 home runs if he gets enough at bats. Thomas is terrific if healthy. C.C. Sabathia is on the rise. Danny Haren is a terrific final pick. Chin-Hui Tsao is in line to become the Rockies' closer, and he could be as good as any second tier closer you'll find.

Is that not a true statement? The only payment a Super Bowl ring gets you is if you pawn it, an act that will certainly merit its share of displeasure. The statement is literally true.

Malloy wasn't mocking his ex-teammates though. He was just making an observation. Most of the bitching in that column is really just Peter King's rantings.

While Maris has similar stats to Burnitz and company, he is a notch ahead of those guys. Honestly, there are worse players in the Hall. But that doesn't give Maris a pass.

You don't need win shares to see it, quite honestly. Abreu's .412 OBP rates 30th all time, and Abreu is 62nd all time in slugging percentage, and 39th all time in OPS. On top of that, he hits over .300, and steals around 30 bases a season. Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find many Phillies to match that. And remember, this is not a franchise with a history of producing star hitters.

I'm sure someday he might be elected. But realistically, he's never come close. His best effort with the writers was his last year of eligibility, when he still fell 137 votes shy of election. I won't weep if he gets inducted, but it bugs me when idiot broadcasters throw out nonsense to try and get their childhood favorites in the Hall.

Listening to ESPN Radio this morning, I had to listen to Mike Greenberg bitch about how Roger Maris should be in the Hall of Fame because he's got the most single season home runs of any player "not under suspicion." Greenberg cited the fact that Maris is one of only two players with back-to-back MVP awards who has not been inducted into the Hall (Dale Murphy is the other). Let me point out a clause in the Hall of Fame voting guidelines... 6. Automatic Elections — No automatic elections based on performances such as a batting average of .400 or more for one (1) year, pitching a perfect game or similar outstanding achievement shall be permitted. Clearly, the Hall does not intend for holding the single season home run record to punch an automatic ticket to Cooperstown. Now, it is true that of 21 eligible players who have won two MVPs, 19 are in the Hall. This is a popular use of the group argument, that a player deserves the Hall because he meets the HOF standards of current inductees. However, note that this group is defined by minimum standards, but no maximums. Of those 21 players, 7 won MORE than two MVPS. They hardly fit in with Maris's group. Along with the 21 players who have won two or more MVPs, four non-eligible players (Ripkin, Bonds, Thomas, Juan Gonzalez) have also won two or more MVPs, for a total of 25. I ranked the 25 players by their career win shares. Maris ranks 24th, ahead of only Roy Campanella. Maris is clearly not Campanella. Now, outside of Maris' two MVP seasons, he holds no Hall of Fame qualifications whatsoever. Maris holds a .260 career batting average, .345 On Base Percentage, and .476 career slugging percentage. None of those marks ranks within the top 100. If Maris had a long career, we could overlook these things, but Maris had an awfully short career (1,463 game). Maris is not in the top 100 in ANY category, and according to Bill James' HOF Standards test, Maris only meets 22%. That mark ranks 590th among MLB players. Taking a look at Maris' most similar players, we get a list of Jeromy Burnitz, Bob Allison, Hank Sauer, Jay Buhner, Jesse Barfield, Dean Palmer, Tony Armas Sr., Eric Davis, Reggie Sanders, and Danny Tartabull. Now, I do not see many people jumping on the Burnitz for the Hall bandwagon, and none of the rest have anything resembling a HOF case. Now for the home run title. 61 home runs is a nice feat. When Mark McGwire hit 70 home runs, and Barry Bonds hit 73, they were the best hitters in baseball. When Maris hit 61 home runs, he ranked 4th in slugging, 5th in OPS, and did not crack the top ten in OBP. Hitting a lot of home runs is good, but what else did Maris do to put runs on the board? Not a lot. He was not the best player in the league, even when he did win both MVPs. Maris benefitted from the RBI mentality of sportswriters, along with the idea that handing Mantle an MVP every year gets boring after awhile. I hardly see a compelling reason to put Maris in the Hall.