zyn081

I think youll find the answer to your last question at the pro-wrestling title histories under the AWA section or at the AWAs website itself.

But Orlando doesnt work as good as you think IMHO, at least none of his work on SD has impressed me.

I don't think so. During Benoit pre-surgery run, Christian was doing tag team stuff while Benoit was always competing for either the IC or WWE titles. When he came back, I don't even remember them being on the same show at the same time (Benoit was originally drafted to Smackdown, but showed up on Raw, then jumped back to Smackdown with the IC belt at roughly the same time the UnAmericans jumped to Raw) until early in 2004. In 2004, Benoit was first feuding with HHH and HBK, before moving on to a bried feuds with Kane and Orton, and then Edge. Christian feuded with Jericho for most of 2004. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So whats wrong with them having a programme together then? Not as in now, now Benoit should clearly be wrestling Regal, and then JBL and maybe UT, but down the line perhaps. A basic double underhook suplex is the same as a butterfly suplex. Butterfly is more specific, as a double underhook can be used to set up lots of moves. A dragon and full nelson suplex are the same thing. A tiger suplex is completely different. It wasn't used in the Benoit/Regal match. Ultimo used to use it as a finisher in WCW. You hook the arms from behind (like the start of an unprettier) then bridge back driving your opponents neck and head to the mat with their shoulders pinned. It looks impossible to kick out of. I've never seen a chicken wing suplex. I'm only familiar with the chicken wing as a submission (hammer lock and crossface). I imagine if such a move were to be done, it would be sick. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Like a Double Underhook DDT or Cradle Piledriver. Somebody mentioned that there was a Tiger Suplex in this match, hence the Thanks alot Just John, its as I thought, Double Underhook Suplex = Butterfly Suplex (I prefer calling it the latter) and Dragon Suples = Full Nelson Suplex (I prefer calling it the latter). There hasnt been a Tiger Suplex in ages on the WWE and the person must have been refering to the Chickenwing submission and not the Suplex variant here. Forget SD, a Big 4 PPV is the stage it should be on.

Damn, it sure took a lot for Daniels to be taken down. IMHO, on the basis of what has been posted here, Matt really must have come off looking weak. Daniels is really hot at the moment. X Division Champion and the self-proclaimed Mr TNA. In a hot programme with Punk for the RoH Title. Must be on his way for Indy Wrestler of the Year.

So, its like a book your own superstars on the card thing? And this isnt a promotion like the WWE, TNA or RoH. Shame, they have one of the nicest looking top belts of all time IMHO.

I know, just makes Matt look real week IMHO. And I cant see how Vince will allow Matt to look weak on RoH but not on TNA. Thats just ridiculous. WWE have some kind of agreement on RoH but nothing with TNA. Surely, it makes sense for TNA to 'use' Matt more than RoH can.

/me enters the ring with a chair in my hands, waits for Jericholic to turn around, bam, vicious chair shot to Jeircholic's skull. Zyn tosses the chair aside, "stop posting so often dammit" My senitments exactly. I was very impressed by Josh Matthews. Especially mentioning Pillman and correcting Romero. Hes just gone up a notch in my eyes. The crowd seemed pretty quiet to me. Benoit winning the title, only leads to a Christian program. When it should lead to Regal and JBL programs... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This has to be a top programme for the US Title. If somebody from 'Creative' cant see that . . . wait, I forgot, its 'Creative'. Benoit has to win the strap and I feel that Regal has to somehow be integrated into the Cabinent, to add to the match, make him JBL's foreign secretary. Then have Benoit move up to JBL. I would love a best of 5/7 series between these 2. Hell, even the belt trading hands and then a rubber match. I dont think they need stips though, such as 2/3 falls, Iron Man match or an Ultimate Submissions match, since your pretty scripting it into going to a 3rd fall or being a very slow start with a speed up at the end. If anything, scrap the best of 5/7 series since that will be scripted to an extent of going to the final match and have a Submissions match, since the pair of them are submission specialists. GIVE THEM 30 MINS ON A PPV, PLEASE WWE, PLEASE VINCE. Also, just give Regal the mike in the buildup to the fued. Cant wait for a Regal-Benoit/JBL interaction. Have Christian and Benoit ever feuded? Yes, everybody wants to see a Simon Dean-Hollywood Nove fued dont they. IIRC yes, Diamond did, or was that the Simon Series? I really miss Simon, especially the way he refers to himself in the 3rd person. Wait a minute, did he do that before The Rock started doing it? I loved the way that Regal grabbed his own leg to prevent the Full Nelson. Top marks for Josh pointing that out. Why didnt Regal ever hook the leg though in the pinfall attempts, it kind of detracted it from a bit. I feel even more sorry for Haas and Morgan now, cause Hass could really go with these 2 and Morgan is a good talker. Romero SUCKS. Hell, Id even beat up Cole, if it meant hed miss the rematch on a Big 4 PPV. Matthews and Tazz calling this would be o so great. I loved the holds, especially Regal's Surfboard transitioned into a modified Dragon Sleeper and Benoit's reverse to the Double Underhook Butterfly suplex. On a down point, there could have been a lot more psychology in this match IMHO, as in targetting a body part as I thought they were going to do this as Benoit pushed Regal into the ringpost and Matthews pointed out that that will weaken him for the crossface. Not having Matthews commentate on any rematch between these 2 will detract from it though. I marked out big time for the Shoulderbreaker. So good to see Benoit do that again. At first when Regal was going for the Tombstone Piledriver, I was on my feet, thought that Benoit was going to bust out the Brainbuster and was already going crazy but it was fantastic to see the Shoulderbreaker. Benoit could use some more of his old moveset as well in a longer rematch, such as the Wildbomb, DDT and said Brainbuster. Damn, Im really disappointed now that Regal didnt get a PPV shot at HHH after SummerSlam and his taking out of Eugene. The best part of my match IMHO was the fact that Benoit didnt go for the Rolling Germans, nor did he go for the Flying Swan-Dive Headbutt, which has become so automatic and generic. Btw, cause posters here have got be a bit confused mentioning Double Underhook, Butterfly, Chickenwing, Tiger, Dragon and Full Nelson suplex. They didnt all feature in the match. Which of the terms above refer to the same move please? To all wrestling fans watch this match to remember what you love to see. To all sports entertainment fans watch this match to realise what this business is and should always be about. PS: Jericholic, I was only kidding.

3 Twists of Fate???? Required interference by Punk???? And all that still didnt work. Hell, just on the basis of KNK's post, Daniels looks better than Matt, even if he lost the match. BTW: MJ Styles, you have been posting in the TNA No Surrender thread so just shut it.

Am I entitled to dislike John Cena? Yes I am. The fact that Cena is over cant hide the fact that he cant work and cant carry somebody. I personally prefer Cena as a heel, but a heel has to lead a match, something which Cena hasnt shown that he can do. You cant deny that he a very weak moveset. HBK gets loud pops which are not respect pops. Everybody shouts you suck at Angle. Jericho is over and is getting nothing of a push like Cena is. What do you watch wrestling for? The promos or the actual matches. I enjoy the soap opera part of it, but I watch it for the matches. And yes, he has got boring. He had like 3 months of promos which the climax of it was calling the other wreslter gay or making a reference to nuts. Getting over with the crowd does not justify you as being the WWE Champion.

It depends what is short-term. If its 1 show forget about it, if its till August 28, which is 6 weeks and they can fit something into it, then go for it. My point about just the 1 show appearance is that people are going to buy No Surrender on the basis that Matt Hardy will be there. If hes not, hes not. Having him appear at the show and thats it, then forget about it. The only thing I can think of if its just a 1 night only thing, book JJ vs Jeff Hardy, and Matt runs and double teams with Jeff to beat JJ. The next iMPACT explain that Matt was brought in as the lesson teaching to JJ continues and just to piss JJ off, he cant exercise revenge. I personally think IMHO thats the only thing that could work if its just for No Surrender. This is what I cant get, why does the WWE have any right of veto? If anything, TNA is doing them a favour. If I was at the helm of TNA Id tell Vince and make him understand that he has no right to interfere in my product. Only reasonable idea would be to have a Hardy Boys v. ??? at next ppv and Matt doesnt play the central role of the team, its more to put over Jeff and a return to TNA for him, if that makes any sense. Like for example Hardy Boys v. Jarrett and ??? and Jeff ends up pinning Jarrett. Other than that, yeah its just a bad idea. Will TNA do it? I highly think they might. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That makes sense. Maybe JJ and Brown with Brown finally turning on JJ, Jeff finally hitting the swanton for the pin. They will have to rush the Hardy's reunion which wouldnt be good for TNAs business. How will they explain Matts abrupt departure? There is no way TNA will get mentioned on RAW. Wouldnt it have made more sense for Matt to say TNA No Surrender this Sunday? It will improve relationships, but at the moment, if its just a 1 shot thing, only Vince is gaining. I think it would be reasonable for TNA to ask for Matt to work a mini-fued, they get to use the names of certain wrestlers (there arent that many worth asking for, only Mr Ass Billy Gunn and Road Dog Jesse James come to mind) and the understanding that Matt can work for TNA if released again by the WWE (remember if WWE releases him it means that they dont want him) plus, TNA retain creative control over Matt when hes at their shows.

In the rematch he was playing a heel remember. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yes, but he was playing the coll heel persona, which got him over to begin with.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A heel can be over with the crowd. Look at Eddie when he was playing a heel, places used to cut nuts for him. But a heel is expected to be booed, Rock was a heel at the time, hence the booing.

The problem was them showing the promo at Mania instead of just waiting for RAW for him to shockingly appear. Then of course they showed him walking backstage as he came out, again a stupid thing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Showing the promo at WrestleMania wasn't that bad of an idea. WWE operates under the seemingly correct formula that a certain percent of people watching WrestleMania are far from casual viewers. Showing the promo will make them tune in rather than come back a year later for the next show. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wasnt a bad idea, but it was a way to upset those punters who had paid a relatively large sum of money for a WM ticket.

Yes I did. You just dont put the belt on Matt or Hogan (or Bob Holly) cause they are over. And IMHO it shouldnt be any different with Cena.

Um, I didnt post it as a bitch slap, just to let you know that it is also being discussed elsewhere if youd like to check it out. More action there than in this thread which has slowed. And yes, I know what calling means. You can predict anything you like, you have to post it though for it to mean anything. Considering you were talking about TNA you should check out folder and I never said it was posted in this thread. Very little IMHO. Id only let him on air if he was allowed to work a 3 month fued with a proper blow-off, putting a TNA guy over and spouting off about the WWE.

Damn, I never watch Velocity but after reading the start of this thread Im going to check it out as soon as Velocity is next on for sure. Thanks a lot Kardo.

Was just surfing the web and came across this website: http://www.awastars.com/bios.htm I didnt know that the AWA was back in business. They have already got Mark Jindrak, Billy Kidman, Luther Reigns, Test, A-Train, Matt Hardy, Molly Holly, Hulk Hogan, Gangrel, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Sean O'Haire, Jesus Aguilera and Mike the Miz.

No, you didnt call anything, it was called earlier in the TNA folder under the No Surrender thread. Check it out:

Have just finished reading through this entire thread and have been writing a number of points on it in no particular order: (1) I dont think that Matt will appear at No Surrender, but after like he told that he would be, hes doing something to help them by keeping the possibility alive so as they get a few more buys off his back as people turn in to see whether he will be there. (2) Matt had time to mention on RAW that he will be at No Surrender, like when he was under the Titantron and said screw the WWE again, he could have said TNA No Surrender this Sunday. (3) As if marks know who Johnny Ace is, they wouldnt be able to tell it was him who tried to keep Matt down on RAW. (4) Regarding Matt vs Daniels. Punk is pro-WWE, Matt is anti-WWE, why would Punk help Matt. The enemy of my enemy is my friend angle just doesnt work here. If anything, a double pin or double countout or let the prophecy that Daniels has been talking about get involved. (5) I find it hard to believe that Vince will do any favours for TNA on the basis of what has happened in the past. (6) According to posters on this board, only 3-10% of WWE fans know about ROH, so they are not a threat and by saying RoH on RAW means very little. (7) 'Creative' has finally done something right for once. Lets now pray and be thankful. (8) Matt has reason to hate the WWE in kayfabe terms, they didnt renew his contract. (9) This was not planned from the beginning. There is no way this could have all been planned from the beginning. Were talking about over a years worth of stuff, as if 'Creative' would have pulled that off. If anybody thinks that 'Creative' could have come up with such a long storyline then your dumb. And if they could, why waste all that effort on just one storyline. (10) It makes sense for Matt to work Indy shows, but Vince wont let he work TNA IMHO. Gives Matt too much of an audience to spout off about the WWE. (11) This has the aspects of HHH-Shawn Michaels about it. An unsanctioned fight at SummerSlam with Matt Hardy vs Adam Copeland. (12) The WWE still fucked this up by having Matt appear twice on the show. It was either or. If people didnt recognise Matt the 1st time, as somebody here posted that you couldnt see him, then they need glasses. They should have just have had by a ticket and wear a hood throughout the show and then jump the rail. (13) THIS WAS A WORK. Smarks should realise this. The cameras wouldnt have focused on him and security would have dealt with him a lot more quickly, like throw him out of the show the 1st time. They also have a 7 second delay on live shows to bleep people out and could have done that with Matt. (14) The WWE heard the Matt chants, who couldnt? They then ran his intro at the wedding to see the pop. Then they saw the $ signs. (15) Its sad to think that Jericho has just be possibly relegated to the 3rd most important match from RAW on the SummerSlam card, and his in match with the show's champion and for the belt. (16) The only think that will shock me on RAW is if Bret returns and wrestles. (17) Isnt Orton supposedly the next HHH? (18) Edge has now got to have a go at Bischoff blaming him for lax security. Edge and Lita should always have a security escort if this persists. Bischoff address the audience with a message for the vigalante saying what he wants is never going to happen. Therefore, the match cant be sanctioned. Matt has to play the avenging angel role, having a shot at Edge every chance he gets. Edge keeps on claiming that hes not afraid, but keeps looking over his shoulder, and is found beaten up at the parking lot, etc... Makes more sense for this to be at Survivour Series rather than SummerSlam, since if Matt gets his hands on Edge for the next 4 odd weeks, it makes it all way to obvious. Better to play the 1 in every 4 weeks attack, 2 attacks in 2 weeks, none for a month. Get Edge spooked. Have him say thats enough, I know its you Matt and I want you at Surivivour Series in an unsanctioned match. (19) The WWE made a bad call on this conudrum when Ace got involved but they have the possibility of landing on their feet. (20) WWE have an arrangement with RoH. It could be a star swap with Punk, plugging both shows a bit on the other promotions air time. Vince doesnt see RoH as a threat, hence letting Foley, Dreamer and Eddie work their shows. Has Vince ever taken somebody from TNA? (21) Money talks. If Matt see a large sum of money, hell sell out. Anybody would. (22) I agree with Rando regarding Kane. They could just have him cutting promos saying thats enough and that hes in it to be WWE Champion. Dont go over the top though exposing the business more than it already is. No need to throw Kanes history away, since that would be pretty lame. Just have him play the monster Kane with 1 angle, he in it for himself to become WWE Champion and that implies any means necessary. Give him a year long title run with the strap as a heel then turned face. People site his match with Benoit at Bad Blood as being enjoyable. (23) CanadianChick is right in her posts. (24) I know smarks who say that HHH is divorced from Steph. Then I say on TV yes but they are still married in real life. Then they look at me funny and say they never got married, HHH drugged Steph god damn it.

IMHO RVD wasnt a heel at the time. He was avoiding fights and cheating to win for example. Angle lost his cred to doing and saying very stupid things. Angle is not supposed to be funny but a wrestling machine. Dont knock The Truth LOL. That would be hillarious if the crowd were to shit on Cena. Its sad how they dont trust Jericho as a face with the title or as a credible heel. My comment relating to Matt and Hogan got the expected response response to further my point. You dont just put the title on somebody cause they are over. It would be really bad to put it on Matt or Hogan just because of this. Cena CANT work in the ring, Cena CANT tell a story in the ring, Cena HAS to be carried, Cena is currently VERY BORING on the mike. He is just plain vanilla. I just fast forward his matches or switch channels when hes on. He RUINED THE WWE Championship for fucks sake. He played a good heel but since he cant work or carry someone, he will never be a credible champion as a heel.

Yes, but they had good back stories. Also, so some kid laughed at the Boogeyman in front of the crowd and Cornette bitch slapped him backstage then?

I agree that the possibility of the PPV garnering a few more buys because of a possible show by Matt will happen, but unless he do more work in TNA it doesnt make good business sense in the long term. Thing is 1) We dont need Jarrett shooting his mouth off anymore about guys that he "took out" when he never even really did so just to get (very) cheap heel heat and 2) I think people see through that whole thing about running off to somewhere else, as in there is a reason they did so, ie TNA isnt good enough for them. Again, it makes TNA look completely bush league, second rate, and far from competitive (and I think TNA needs to at least TRY to always be up against WWE) when you let a WWE contracted wrestler show up on your show just to put over a WWE ran storyline/character/etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> From the looks of things though, the WWE and Matt have agreed to it. THE WWE WANT MATT TO APPEAR ON TNA. To me, this means that TNA have the upper hand and can either use it as (a) to gain a big favour back from the WWE or (b) go along with it only if Matt continues to berate the WWE, put over TNA and work some sort of mini-fued programme with somebody. They should get this in writing too.

Fantastic then. A la Vader.

In the rematch he was playing a heel remember.

For all those fanbays of the non-ring talent crowd licker John Cena, basing your arguement on the fact that he deserves the title cause he gets massive pops is pretty redundant and I have a few words to deflate your ballon arguement: (1) Matt FREAKIN Hardy (2) The Immortal Hollywood Hulk Hogan

He does have a talent for getting people to hate him like JBL.