zyn081

I don't think that's what RRR meant. I think he meant that regardless of the London attacks or not, it's still a stupid angle. Is that right RRR? 2. Yes, because pulling out will send a great message to the terrorists. That'd just be letting them win. 3. No it's not. I read about the angle on Monday night and was disgusted then, saw pictures of it on Tuesday and thought it was stupid then too. If London hadn't happened, it still would've been an incredibly stupid angle to run. London just made it worse. 4. The discussions probably wouldn't have been heated (and I think it was a horrible decision to close that thread IMO), but people would still be discussing it, because the London attacks or not- It still was a stupid and offensive angle to run, that shows how classless WWE is. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1. RRR started by saying "I don't even care about London". Just like RRR decided to pick up on 1 line of my post, Im picking up on 1 line of his. I said Ill pretend I didnt hear it. You should have let that slide. I know that RRR is going on about the freaking booking. I can read. But he still wrote "I don't even care about London". 2. O yeah, cause the current strategy is working so perfectly isnt it. If you to know about my full thoughts on how to decrease the occurences of such actions, I dont mind telling you, but I have to warn you, I will go way off topic by doing so. 3. Yes, I understand and appreciate what your saying. But as you say, London made it worse. If London didnt happen, people would have just had a go at the WWE. My problem with the angle is that London did happen, and the UPN should have just said, we dont give two hoots what Vince McMahon says, the segment is out. Somebody is one of the threads on this segment here (there are a few of them, and its starting to get confusing now) said that the UPN walked the line to make money out of it. If it was cut from other countries round the world, why wasnt it cut in the US? 4. I like the way that you acknowledge what I am trying to say and instead of replying to that, you just decide to disregard it and rant on. Lets chip and give 1 shiny dollar each to UPN for a job well done. Close which thread?

First of all, if people find the time to reply to me, please take a moment out to read my post in the other thread on exactly the same topic. No, I never said that. But as I said to RRR, hearing what happened in London would have awakened those bad memories of Iraq. And then you sit down and see what happened on SD. The offense it caused was magnified and heightened due to what happened in London, making it 1000 times worse. And to compare like with like, I would say that 9/11 is more comparable to London and the terrorist angle that was run on SD than the fighting in Iraq.

Yes it is. I don't even care about London, it shouldn't have been done, period. Aren't people still dying in Iraq? Aren't terrorists still killing innocent people in the Middle East? Are you trying to say that it's all relative? That the deaths in London mean more than the deaths elsewhere? That the deaths a week ago mean more than the deaths, say, 2 weeks ago? Is the WWE not trying to profit from those deaths by exploiting certain images and characteristics? Is the WWE tastelessly, tactlessly, and terribly and without any form of critical, social, or artistic commentary not portraying terrorists and terrorism on their television show? The WWE could have made a simple phone call and said "we don't want that on the air" and UPN could have would have complied. It was tasteless when they did it on Monday, it was tasteless when they were editing it on Tuesday, it was tasteless when they sent it on Wednesday, and it was tasteless after the terrorist attack on Thursday. Trust me, any time before 8pm on Thursday could the WWE have prevented it from airing if they really wanted it gone. It doesn't take a lot of time or effort to remove it and put a commercial in its place. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was expecting your usual line by line analysis. Youve been asking for mature conversations so your getting to get one. First of all, Ill pretend that I didnt hear your 'tastless' comment saying that you dont care about London and then go on to rant about terrorism. And you have gravely misunderstand me. Terrorism is never justifable and is never relative. The taking of human life is never right, let alone the taking of innocent human life. It doesnt matter how many people died in New York, in Iraq, in east Timbuktu, in the south Pacific, in a man living on one man island which is attacked. I had a rather heated conversation about 3 hours ago with a person over what happened in London and the value of human life. I personally believe that the West and countries sharing the same mentally and development should just pull out of certatin countries so as to avoid simialr gutless acts to occur in the future. That isnt a retreatist attitude, its just that with such inhumane cowards you can never win. This persons response was that the US will never pull out of the Middle East because of oil. That persons words, not mine. My response was, oh, thats great, so whats the value of my life in terms of barrels of oil? I dont think that this is a case of the WWE have a laugh at the victims expense. The WWE has a history of making bad calls. I admit that. But you dont seem be understanding me. If anything you are speaking in relatives. The soreness over the segment is the timing of it, because come on now, surely the hurt of 9/11 was awakened in your mind when you heard about London. I dont know what happened in the US, but in Malta, people were running stories about 9/11 and Madrid. Isnt that making money out of something that people are trying to forget. Please try to get what I am saying. London triggered those bad memories. Would we be having this conversation now if London didnt happen? No, we wouldnt. Given the fact that the WWE could have pulled it, then yes they are to blame. But UPN could have put their foot down as Sky Sports did in the UK. They could have and should have cut the segment, but as people apart from myself have stated here, UPN should have spoken up and decided to cut it. UPN are ultimately responsible for what they air on their TV channel, not the WWE. They could have made the show shorter as they did in the UK. I have heard nobody here cmplaining saying hey why was SD so many odd minutes shorter. I dont think, or at least, I hope that people wouldnt have complained about that in the US.

Im not talking about the booking of the segment, which isnt what this whole arguement is about. What I am talking about and what the arguement is about is that it was considered in bad taste given what happened in London a few hours earlier. The booking was bad and Im not trying to justify it, but it wouldnt have got this much attention if London hadnt have happened earlier. And I find it very hard for people to prove otherwise.

Good you could make it to the ball RRR. And yes, UPN is more responsible. I thought of all the people here, you would get my point, but again, what I say, you cant possibly agree with. Did London happen before the WWE thought of the angle? Did London happen before the WWE implemented the angle? Did London happen before the WWE filmed the angle? Did London happen before the WWE sent the angle to UPN? Ummmmm, NO, NO, NO and most probably NO. EDIT: And I really dont know where you magically get these 3 days from either. It was less than a day that they had time to change it, and that really is a maximum time. Last time I checked and was told so by people in this forum, SD was aired on Thursdays in the US for the 1st time wordwide. People here have told me this, I havent invented this, so excuse my ignorance if I am wrong. If London didnt happen, the segment (NOTE that I am ONLY referring to the UT, Hassan and co SEGMENT, that was aired last Thursday on UPN for the first time) wouldnt being getting the attention that it is now. Let me repeat so that you understand me: The problem with the SEGMENT AIRED ON LAST WEEKS SD is not because of the storyline angle (which has been run since DECEMBER 2004). The problem with it is that it is felt that it was pretty tastless given what happened in LONDON, THE MORNING THAT SD WAS AIRED. The problem is not that the WWE chose to do the segment, it is the TIMING of the segment. Just like a TV channel or a radio station can decide whether or not to beep a caller (and not the person conducting the interview who is providing the product), the UPN could have done so too. WWE is responsible for the product. UPN airs the product. The problem I and other people have is with the airing of the segment. We are for once not just saying that its bad booking on the WWEs part or that the WWE are morons, as you so often accuse of doing when you try to have an intellectual converesation here. When somebody records a commercial it is sent to the TV channel for airing. I find it hard to believe that I can be changed before then. It is either aired or not. But HTQ has opened my eyes to the fact that the WWE had the oppourtunity to cancel the segment. I thought that it was out of their hands based on what people said here. But yes, your right, the AIRING of the segment on SD on THURSDAY was 80/20, just the other way round. And for your information, I live on planet Earth and have lived for some years in the UK, and I have friends and family members who live in and use London.

Wait a minute, didnt he bitch slap him on air?

Perhaps, Styles Clash to Waltman, Lynn starts to count, stops at 2, Styles looks up and Lynn quickly hits a finisher on him, drags Waltman over styles and counts quickly. Could cut a promo the next night, with Lynn saying that he thought Styles was phenomenal but Waltman was right, he just an egostical selfish asshole who is only interested in he himself getting bigger at the expense of others. KotM was every man for himself, what gave Styles the right to expect Waltman to hand him the belt. You dont think Team Canada will interfer in Petey's match? Maybe AMW lose, ableit barely, to them and one of them blames the other for it. Tenay could say the most established team in TNA lost to the a newly formed green team. I think its more a case of Sabin turning heel. Thats what I feel TNA will do this, but a handshake would be real cool. You think Team Canada will interfere in this match but not in the Petey match? What is the Team Canada combination for this match? Maybe back to where he should be? The ME? He could form a team with Rhyno intent on running JJ out of TNA. He could be baited by Zbysko with a Title shot. I only 3 words to say in response to your last comment: GORE GORE GORE!

How is it not at least partly his fault when he came up with the angle in the first place, knew enough that he made the call to edit the angle off of the overseas editions of Smackdown while not taking it off the US and Canadian versions, and also had the angle put up on WWE's own website? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Im talking about the airing on UPN, since this has what the thread has become about. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll try one last time: UPN deserve blame for not cutting the angle out. WWE deserve blame for not telling UPN to cut the angle out, which they had the power to do, but decided not to. Get it now? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, Ive got it. As I have posted in the other thread. Check that out 1st. EDIT: If there wasnt 2 threads on the same topic, then I wouldnt be replying to what you say in 1, refreshing my browser, and then reply to what you replied to what I had said when I was replying to what you had said in the other thread.

This is ridiculous. UPN said that they could have decided to cut out the segment if they wanted to. Every TV station has this right. Sky Sports in England excercised that right and Ive heard nothing about Vince or the WWE being upset with Sky for cutting it. UPN had the power to do so, Vince or the WWE. The problem is not the angle itself but the timing of it. SD is film on Tuesday and sent to UPN for airing. The product is then sent into UPN. This is UPN's freaking fault. They fucked up by not cutting it. They have realised that they have cocked up big time and now are trying to shift the blame onto the WWE. Ass monkeys. Vince just take SD elsewhere. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> WWE deserve the blame too. They had it cut out of every overseas version of Smackdown, but made no such call for the US and Canadian versions, which they could have done. The blame lies with both WWE and UPN. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Im not making excuses for them, but SD is shown later overseas than it is in the US, sometimes delayed by a day or 2. Given the short time span, I think that UPN shouldnt have had to ask permission to cut it (which they clearly dont have it) and just gone ahead and cut it. They could have just told the WWE that it was a network decision given the circumstances. The WWE would have accepted that as they did in the UK. That makes it more UPN's fault with respect to this particular segment. I have never defended the WWE for this storyline or angle though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, UPN should have cut it, but in the same vein, WWE should have had the smarts to order it cut out themselves, and that alone, as well as everything else involved, makes WWE partly to blame here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If WWE had the power to order UPN to cut it out at such short notice, then yes, WWE is partly to blame, but on that note, IMHO UPN are more at fault than the WWE, since they have the power of veto regarding what they show on their channels. Some people are making it out here though that this is a 100% WWEs fault, cause they came up with the segment.

So, whats he doing with a job now then? I thought he was the guy I said cause of the Nathan Jones reference. Who was the guy who laughed and got bitched slapped by Cornette then? :S

How is it not at least partly his fault when he came up with the angle in the first place, knew enough that he made the call to edit the angle off of the overseas editions of Smackdown while not taking it off the US and Canadian versions, and also had the angle put up on WWE's own website? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Im talking about the airing on UPN, since this has what the thread has become about.

Hence why the WWE fed it up.

This is ridiculous. UPN said that they could have decided to cut out the segment if they wanted to. Every TV station has this right. Sky Sports in England excercised that right and Ive heard nothing about Vince or the WWE being upset with Sky for cutting it. UPN had the power to do so, Vince or the WWE. The problem is not the angle itself but the timing of it. SD is film on Tuesday and sent to UPN for airing. The product is then sent into UPN. This is UPN's freaking fault. They fucked up by not cutting it. They have realised that they have cocked up big time and now are trying to shift the blame onto the WWE. Ass monkeys. Vince just take SD elsewhere. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> WWE deserve the blame too. They had it cut out of every overseas version of Smackdown, but made no such call for the US and Canadian versions, which they could have done. The blame lies with both WWE and UPN. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I havent read that they asked for it to be cut out by every overseas TV company that shows SD. If Im not mistaken Sky just went ahead and cut it out themselves. Im not making excuses for them, but SD is shown later overseas than it is in the US, sometimes delayed by a day or 2. Given the short time span, I think that UPN shouldnt have had to ask permission to cut it (which they clearly dont have it) and just gone ahead and cut it. They could have just told the WWE that it was a network decision given the circumstances. The WWE would have accepted that as they did in the UK. That makes it more UPN's fault with respect to this particular segment. I have never defended the WWE for this storyline or angle though.

Well, he's in his 40s already and I get the impression he may have been trained in wrestling before TE 4. In the 3-4 moves he did in OVW, he didn't look any worse than Nathan Jones, so they'll try him. I'm just really glad this lame ass gimmick was WWE's idea and not Cornette's. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wasnt he the guy who had to drop out 1st due to injury?

No, in no way is it secondary. The Hassan angle has been running since the end of 2004. If London wasnt attacked, what happened on last weeks SD wouldnt be generating as much discussion. Its all about the timing. If all you can say is thank god that the angle is finally scrapped, please just say nothing. Its not just me who is saying that its all about the timing and that its UPN's fault. People clearly havent yet understood my 1st post, so check out exibits A, B and C below that other people here have stated. If UPN felt that badly about the angle, they could have told WWE to take it off, and given the circumstances, it would have been a reasonable request. They wanted to play both sides of the fence with the angle, and are now feeling some heat for it, and are just trying to avoid that happening again this week. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If people posting here can perhaps comprehend what the above 3 posts are saying, you will finally realise who is at fault here. I have family and friends who live and use the London area and we havent heard from all of them yet, and hadnt heard from anybody when SD aired. I am not trying to buy anybodys sympathy here, hence my not mentioning it before, but I can empathise with what people in the US are feeling who have family and friends in London and then watched the crap that UPN aired. I watched SD to let out some stress on Saturday and was looking at my watch saying that was a real short show. I then come on here and find that the segment was cut by Sky cause they found it in bad taste given the circumstances. Its good to see that Sky has some sense and made the right decision. UPN had the power to cut it and they didnt so this is their fucking problem and if anybody has to make this right and apologise its them and not Vince or the WWE. They walked the fence to get press reaction. If a Board of Directors couldnt see the potential of this blowing up in their faces then they have no place on that Board. Typical glorly hound media company. Stop talking through your ass metr0man et al. The angle has been going on for ages and people (including myself, and I continue to do so, so look below) have been critising it, but this has just got ugly cause of UPN's not cutting it so as to attract attention and not the WWE. Blame the people who are fault. Im the first to say how low Vince can stoop, but for once its not his bloody fault. IMHO, the UT segement wasnt about terrorism, it was mainly that Hassan cant beat the UT on his own and had to resort to such means. The build-up is to a 1 on 1 match where Hassan (now minus Daivari) must fight alone. If London didnt happen it wouldnt have been portrayed to such an extent as being so. He should have been a face, if handle correctly, cause I am sure that some people are wrongly suffering the backlash of 9/11. He could have shown how its one way for Arab-Americans and another way for the rest. But I knew the WWE would never be able to pull off such a realistic angle properly, and they would have Jeircho making fun of him. He should have said I love America but . . . and the WWE should have provided promos so as to back this up. No feed him JR and The King, who marks lap up. Having Daivari spout off in Arabic doesnt help matters either. I am a British citizen living in Malta and I cant stand it when people tell me, your a visitor or guest here (despite me living here since 1988) so you should not critisize our country. I respect the laws of the land, which I believe every person in foreign country should do, but I also have the right to be heard and voice my disapproval. I would have been able to personally associate with Hassan doing that, especially in the land of the free, and he would have been a face in my eyes for it. The importance of the angle should not be that he is Arab-American, but that he respects the US (they had played on this about) and he feels oppressed (which I am sure people in any country do so). I dont think I am alone in feeling this. They could have done the 2 weights, 2 measures storyline against a current affairs background. Vince should be accused of not handling the whole storyline properly, and not 1 segment. He was unlucky with the timing cause he filmed SD on Tuesday.

If JBL turns face and Morley joins him... Orlando Jordan would create his own empire, and try to profit off the Jordan name. He'll be racist to other blacks and try to use them to his own gain. JBL, playing face, will hire EL GRAN LUCHADORE to destroy Orlando Jordan and his lackeys, Viscera and the Godfather, who will only be in it for the hoes and high-tail it the second they start to take a beating. If JBL stays heel and Morley joins him... Orlando Jordan will turn face, and the race card will be played from the black perspective once more. Jordan will eventually triumph and afterwards both Jordan and Morley will be fired. JBL will never make mention of the angle and instead go on to feud with anybody else on the roster over the fact that he is better than them cause he is rich. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like the way all of these ideas invole trades between shows. Id make Regal Foreign Secretary, since he needs to improve relations with his fanbase all over the world and I would have said make Matt Morgan his War Secretary, since America is at War but just insert BIG SIZED RELATIVELY UNKNOWN WRESTLER here. WWE could have resurrected Venis as Chief of Staff but f it.

This is ridiculous. UPN said that they could have decided to cut out the segment if they wanted to. Every TV station has this right. Sky Sports in England excercised that right and Ive heard nothing about Vince or the WWE being upset with Sky for cutting it. UPN had the power to do so, Vince or the WWE. The problem is not the angle itself but the timing of it. SD is film on Tuesday and sent to UPN for airing. The product is then sent into UPN. This is UPN's freaking fault. They fucked up by not cutting it. They have realised that they have cocked up big time and now are trying to shift the blame onto the WWE. Ass monkeys. Vince just take SD elsewhere.

I have no problem with a 6 match card, cause it gives each match more time, but I must say that the 2 above mentioned tag matches were indeed expected. I dont know when Shane and Shelly got together and am a bit disappointed that Shelly is getting the same treatment as Joe.

They need to have Teddy Hart again, he really stood out for me. Don't know about the Japanese guy - obviously Lyger would be great - but didn't Jody Fleisch start wrestling again. He'd be perfect, the best spot-monkey in Britain. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Isnt Teddy under some sort of deal with the WWE? I was thinking that if they wanted to do Team UK right, they should have brought in Jody Fleisch, Jonny Storm, Paul Burchill (who can hustle like a X Div guy) and James Tighe (the X Div mat based guy of the group). The only problem was that I couldnt think of a manager for them. Hey, it worked for WCW, didn't it? DIDN'T IT? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The WHC wasnt defended on Backlash 2003 when HHH, Flair and Jericho squared off against Nash, HBK and Booker T. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, but HHH wrestled on the show. There have certainly been many shows where the champ wrestled but didn't defend the title. The only WWF/E PPV I can think of where the champion didn't wrestle is In Your House: Buried Alive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I see your point. Who was the champion at that time? I cant seem to recollect.

You misunderstand me and the problem with the situation itself. People are not upset with the angle per se, they are upset with the TIMING of it being aired, and the fault for that lies with UPN. I didnt say anything about the booking, I was talking about the airing of it. Hence my reference to Sky Sports. Read posts properly next time before you decide to reply please.

That pretty makes all of the endless arguing in several threads here redundant since the main people to blame were the Network chiefs. It was a TV decision and not a WWE decision to go ahead with it. You cant blame the WWE for that. In the UK, Sky decided it best to cut out the segment. I havent read anywhere that the WWE were upset with Sky for doing that.

Hey, it worked for WCW, didn't it? DIDN'T IT? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The WHC wasnt defended on Backlash 2003 when HHH, Flair and Jericho squared off against Nash, HBK and Booker T.

He had a go at Bischoff, Edge (bringing up being a gf stealer and Matt) and saying that JBL was only WWE Champion cause HHH didnt want to work on both shows. FN hillarious he was, thank god I wasnt drinking at the time. Hopefully so. I still would prefer doing a more serious storyline though. London is doing what right now that is so fine? They should be, tag titles and US.

Out of curiousity, how did the people at the arena react to this?

Have you ever noticed how the annoucers always play up how MSG "loves" Shawn and has the heel he faces always cut an anti-MSG/New York promo before the match? It happens EVERY time he has a match there, too. Anyway, I'll throw out Rocky Maivia. He received a ton of backlash from the fans for being "That 80's Babyface." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The MSG crowd popped pretty huge for HBK's win in the first Elimination Chamber at SurSer 02. Then again, when he did the spring up for his babyface comeback at WMXX, they booed the shit out of him, so make of that what you will. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Probably most of MSG was rooting for Benoit in the Wm match, especially since he had never won a world title before (outside of his WCW title quicky). It depends on who is in the crowd. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Its not a case of probably, its thats the reason why.