Promoter

Thus, why I state that Kreski laid the foundation for WM 17. It was kind of obvious, Rock/Austin was going to headline since it was reported that was the match they wanted for WM 16. I think only Heyman wanted HHH/Austin for the main event and in hindsight it might have been the better idea how things went down post Mania 17(Maybe I'll get into that later). The Rock/Austin storyline was okay in some aspects such as the sit-down interview, but that's not really creative doing the storyline as much. I still don't understand why Debra was put into the story and then taken out. You're right about some of the storylines, but I'm sure some of those matches might have been pencilled in months in advance. The Mcmahon vs. Mcmahon storyline was also somewhat lucky with the wcw aspect thrown in. I admit I do like the stuff with the website such as the power rankings. I wonder what Shane could really do if given the chance and also the drive to do it. Stephanie is just a waste.

I wonder what is conjuring up at Titan Towers for this thing. Usually, they do got in mind the top draws for a monumental show like this. WM XX was Benoit and Eddie finally wearing straps and ending the show at MSG. WM 18 to sell out skydome was Hogan's return. WM 17 was Austin's big title match return. I'm going to have to agree with those saying Hogan/Austin. For all we know they could have postponed the whole idea for WM 23 or Austin/Hogan's ego postponed it. In reality, that IS the only match that can rival the anniversary of Hogan/Andre. When you take that into context with perhaps how they are going to hype the show I can see why Hogan and Austin would not want to job. I suppose Austin should get the win, but if Hogan sees this as his last match you know his ego would want to end his career with a victory. Austin winning is not the same as Rock's win at WM 18 imo. As someone said, Austin's wrestling fandom is different from Rock's. Rock gets booed now and then, while even turning Austin heel didn't really work. It just turned his fans from watching the product. The match could put into minds who the real greatest is even though both are way past their prime. I liked the idea of Austin/Cena. I know this will sound ridiculous, but Cena defending against Austin at WM 23 might actually be a good idea where Cena finally turns heel. Cena does get the most reaction and heat out of any star on the roster today. Cena going over HHH at Mania is one thing, but over Austin is a completely different universe. Cena vs. a returning The Rock would also draw imo for the same reasons. I think the wwe should really concentrate on Rock, Austin, Hogan, UT, HBK and HHH in roles that help usher in the newer guys like Cena, Batista, Benjamin, etc. If Hogan/Austin happens it can simply be the closing of the Hogan and Austin generations, but the focus should be on guys like Cena regardless of what the net feels about the newer guys. I would actually have Edge against UT in a streak battle. UT would win, but the outcome would be harder to predict simply because. Then again, Edge could win and start a new era streak, but we know that aint happening. If the wwe is creating WM 23 to be the sequel of WM 3 then they MUST counter these matches in terms of aura, drawing ability, and impact....... WWF World Heavyweight Title Match Hogan vs. Andre the Giant WWF Intercontinental Title Match Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat vs. "Macho Man" Randy Savage Six-Man Tag Match The Hart Foundation/Danny Davis vs. Santana/Bulldogs Retirement Match Roddy Piper vs. Adrian Adonis Now, I mention these matches for the following reasons. Hogan and Andre was a passing of the torch even though Hogan had the torch. We know the story there, plus it was "undefeated" vs. "undefeated" monster match. The wwe is going to have to build a match-up like this. I know everyone hates Cena in terms of the wrestling audience compared to the casual fan, but I could very well see Cena in a match like this against either Rock or Austin. HHH was the stepping stone. I won't get into all of this now, but I already know what many here will say about this Cena idea. The retirement match CAN be topped with Hogan/Austin. As I mentioned above it can close the Hogan and Austin generations. The wwe also has to create a monster tag team that defines this era. They had it with NAO in the attitude era. Hart Foundation and British Bulldogs defined that era back in 1987. If MNM are still together the wwe needs to build a great feud and tag team to counter them for the event. The wwe is going to have to try to top the workrate monster of Steamboat and Savage. They have Benjamin, Angle, HBK, and HHH who could possibly pull it off. I would lean more towards Benjamin vs. HBK as someone stated. If the wwe is continuing to pimp Benjamin as the best athlete today he would need a major feud with HBK whom the wwe use to pimp as the greatest all-around athlete ever. It would work for the IC title(I'm not saying Benjamin has to reign all year or not, but if they want to have any chance in hell living up to Savage/Steamboat's IC title match this might be the best bet. Angle is 50/50 with his physical state). It's still very early, but the wwe has to start thinking along these lines imo. They can sell out the place imo, but living up to the hype is another story.

Stephanie Mcmahon gets the blame. RRR is right. Vince has proven himself and doesn't need to anymore. How many people would have the same drive after what he's done. I blame Ted Turner for letting wcw go down the toilet too, but he is like Vince in that he proved himself business-wise in other things. Stephanie Mcmahon should be power hungry and SHOW that she can top her father, but she has failed miserably. Shane Mcmahon too. Vince worked from the bottom to take the wwe to the top. I'm quick to blame Vince as much as the next guy, but Stephanie and Shane Mcmahon have been given an empire and are taking it for granted because dad is around or don't care because they are filthy rich already. The Invasion was shit thanks to soap opera writing. An angle that was built-in for years. The nWo angle was shit and that was also built-in since 1996 when Hall and Nash showed up on Nitro. I won't even get into how creative they REALLY could have got with Hogan, Hall, and Nash returning in 2002 playing off real life. They tanked the wcw promotion worse than wcw imo because at least guys like Booker and Goldberg and company were over when they were in the promotion. They tanked the splitting of the titles and brands. Stephanie's claim to fame was WM 17 and that could really be given credit to Kreski setting the foundation 6 months in advance. Is that coincidence too? Vince gets major blame for not using REAL talent for the brands like Heyman and going for family.

Maybe that's the rumoured angle we read a few weeks back about Cena having a faction to protect him backstage because of the "haters".

I think HHH should move over to smackdown if he wants to stay a heel. However, if the wwe is thinking about an "old school" vs. "new wave" feud I could see the old HBK and old HHH back together again to chase John Cena.

I still don't get why Mr. T wasn't inducted with the rest of the Mania 1 roster last year? He was more integral in making Mania a legacy than either Rose or Perry. I do understand the publicity stunt behind Perry and Rose though. I thought they weren't going to induct any more celebrities. Mr. T should be there.

Or it could be the first signs of another Mcmahon/Helmsley Era being repeated when Vince gets crushed by Cena and has his son in-law take the belt for the family at WrestleMania just like WM 16. All the HHH should get the belt back and Cena should lose rants all over the net by Cena haters better know what they are asking for with this one.

It's not just this board with all the negativity though. I agree RAW and SNME weren't bad. What I think is really irking people is the build up of Mania or lack thereof. These last two shows aren't convincing people to think the wwe will do Mania justice. I agree with hyperchord24 completely. The wwe has lost all senses and do not realize that they need the "show behind the show" aspect again. They are on the right track with HHH being a Mcmahon. THAT will stop the cheers. Cena needs to do a Diesel tweener promo a la post Survivor Series '95 to get his babyface heat back too.

I toast to this post!!!! The wwe is just 1995 dead right now. Yeah, they are making money more than that year, but there's more to it than that. The wwe use to sing that song in 1997 when they got killed in the ratings. However, they still had more life to it than they do now. SNME wasn't that bad a show imo, but that's not saying much compared to the tripe they have done over the months. As a stand alone show it was not embarassing. I was expecting the smackdown special nonsense from last year personally. There is no excuses to be made. Wrestling was in prime time for The Main Event in 1988 and 1989 and drew even higher than last Saturday's top prime time shows. The fans are just being smart and avoiding the wwe's crap. I really wish they would just fire the creative staff and Stephanie and hire people who know about pro wrestling and about character development and plot. This may not be popular around here, but the wwe needs someone like Vince Russo who works on character development. They need someone like the head writer in 2000 to create good plots. They need BOOKERS for matches and need someone like Pat Patterson doing creative match finishes to turn this crap around. I'm pissed because seriously, this is the first time I really do not care at all about WrestleMania in all my years of watching and that includes the horrible WM 13 build. At least they had Bret and Austin and they are even using THAT to try to salvage this year's Mania. WM 9 looked more interesting than this year's event for crying out loud. Vince really needs to wake up along with HHH, Stephanie, Linda, and Shane. They are lucky they don't have someone like a Bischoff with a passion to take him out with a wcw around. Not lucky for us though.

I'm with those just wanting Angle to retain the damn belt now. I was into Rey winning the title at one point, but it has come so convoluted it just looks desperate from a smark booking standpoint.

Everyone here has some great points that have been said over and over. There is a common theme in all of this. For Vince Mcmahon and the wwe to return to glory they have to CUT THE DAMN CREATIVE AND HIRE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY HELL THEY ARE DOING and NEED SOME SERIOUS COMPETITION. I mean, it is quite obvious. This is EXACTLY what made them come back in the 90's on nitro and wcw. I think it was ten years ago, Vince hired Vince Russo as head writer to change up the damn formula. They have the talent ringwise to an extent, but the creative team is abysmal for the most part. As someone said Stephanie has been a complete BUST in her position. Get rid of her already. Not listening to the fans and reacting accordingly is the biggest problem. They should have taken notice from how the brand split was turning off fans since 2002. That was the first sign they did not really care what fans wanted. Trying to tell fans who are the new superstars of the next era was the second sign and it has never been the same since. Then add Rock, Hogan, Austin, Foley, and nWo to some extent leaving and we got the hole they are in now.

Angle's big announcement was on TV as part of his ongoing storyline and character. This announcement is NOT for TV. It's for the boys in the back. I know. My point is the wwe's idea of a big announcement usually is something stupid. He'll probably chastise them about surfing the internet. Wasn't HHH on here a couple of weeks ago?

I fear some kind of silliness involving Eddie Guerrero. I won't get into that. Perhaps, that the whole Bret/Vince rivalry was a hoax. I'll leave it at that there. We know where both things can go. Seriously, it'll be something lame. Remember, Angle's big announcement few weeks ago? I do too!

DING! DING! DING! We got a winner!

Damn, I forgot about Orton. He'll get his boos though I think for winning like he should. It's just that if it goes on last it will get ugly. Then we got to consider Vince/HBK perhaps finishing the show. That could be another trainwreck waiting to happen. As I said before "WE WANT BRET" is just going be thunderous in the building and fans may get another "Eddie" situation like last sunday where they don't get what they want. The more I think about this, the more I realize wwe better hope they don't ruin Mania's image this year.

I wouldn't be amazed. Look how they have built this match. It would only make sense for them to have Cena retain and celebrate with Maria over HHH. Downhome, I kind of want to see how this all will play out myself. This is why I wanted the match to happen. Edge in the title match would be a foregone conclusion, but how they are booking Cena is quite strange. Next thing we know, we see Stephanie returning to tv and siding with HHH in this feud to help garner heel heat for HHH. They are lucky this match is not going to take place in MSG or SkyDome that's for sure. However, Chicago is similar, so it's going to get nasty. Now, the question is will it be something like Golberg/Brock at Mania XX for this title match in terms of heat and the crowd screwing up the match?

You make a lot of sense, however, this is one requirement that needs not be met if you work for WWE "creative." That is actually a good idea, but as stated elsewhere on the net the wwe has turned into a company that loves to be average and have no one really outshine certain people. If it were 1997-1999 RVD's reactions would have him at the top of the card and Cena would have been a heel long time ago.

What a brilliant idea! You know, I bet if HHH got this idea pitched to him by you he would be all smiles and give you a job

The double turn I would have to agree is out the window. They had their chance and didn't do it when all logic stated otherwise. HHH wants to believe he is the supreme heel by having fans boo him over Cena for Mania and we will all laugh when we see HHH continue being the babyface. Yes, continue being the babyface because in a twisted way he is being booked that way accidently. Cena had problems beating Angle until the Survivor Series where the fans wanted him to go over. Cena then gets booed at NYR. He then wins back the title from a surprise champion in Edge. Doesn't this seem like old HHH? Fans want the belt off the guy and they tease it only to put the title back on him. Then we got HHH who has not received a title shot since losing to Batista in the HIAC. He returned to put some sense into Flair about being all happy about winning a secondary title. In some ways, HHH could be seen as a face for actually telling the truth that Flair as champion at all at this point is ridiculous for all parties. Then HHH goes into the Rumble match and is an ironman who loses out to Rey Mysterio in the end? Is this not babyface booking? He would have to win and screw Rey to get heel heat if they were doing proper booking imo. Then you get HHH going through another tournament style event to get the title shot. He is proclaiming to be the king of kings and wanting his belt back? Hell, the belt he is going for isn't even the belt he lost as he can't get his old title back because it's on smackdown, so in some ways he was screwed. Is this not traditional babyface booking for WrestleMania? I just want to see how HHH plans to stay heel in all of this after how they have built this up. The screwed up this whole thing since October when the Angle/Cena feud started and HHH returned from his vacation. They should have done the double turn to build to this match already.

They won't retire the women's belt right now. Trish is the HHH of the women's division and no one seems to complain or care about her long run as champ. I think she's going for Moolah's record quite frankly

We're DORKS. That's all that really ought to be said. And yes, I'm including myself in this group of people that want that kind of obscure stuff. I don't think all of these DVDs should have really obvious big matches that are readily available on other releases. Sure, a Hogan DVD needs to have his first WWF title win and WM3 vs. Andre, but let's also get some goodies that we haven't seen before...or in the case of the Dr. D match I loved so much, matches we literally haven't seen in almost twenty years. Make it worth it for the longtime fans, as well as the ones that are just catching up. Everyone wins that way I think. One reason I think Flair's dvd sold so well was that it had a lot of matches people did not see because of how wrestling was back in the day(the wwf was on a much bigger national scale with NBC and whatnot). It wouldn't hurt using that same strategy to sell Hogan's DVD too in which people will get to see Hogan matches that have rarely been seen or never seen.

You would also have to rewrite the brass that ran that monkey into the ground too. Creative control and ego-mania would also have to be considered. As for the wcw, I think the nWo should have exploded right after that event or at the very least have Goldberg and wcw finally win the war at the Georgia Dome. It just really dragged after that.

Wasn't HHH/Angle in a match to decide who goes to Mania in '02, not '01? HHH/Austin were feuding in '01 in February.

I also thought they should have done that match at Mania IX. I also thought Hogan vs. Luger would have been done too for some reason.

I can see the Chicago crowd chanting "WE WANT BRET" in the HBK/Vince match. I just think fans will expect something from Bret. We saw what happened with Hogan last year at the ceremony. I also think people are assuming that all fans actually buy Bret not being able to wrestle at all. I'm not saying he can, but this is wrestling and fans know they fake things like that. Of course, someone will try to argue this with me because they are thinking way too much like a smark. Hawk34 why do you want to pretend you never read anything I wrote? The British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith will get into the HOF. That's not even a debate imo simply from his tag team days alone.