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I think Austin's heel turn was telegraphed in hindsight too, but they still bungled it. I said they had enough ammo to turn him heel and make fans buy it, but they didn't make sense of the damn thing. Here is what they should have done even using their own storylines. Austin comes back and is paranoid about who ran him over. Fine. The wwe is a different place with Rock as champion and Triple H coming off a monster reign for that timeframe anyways. Kurt Angle is rising. Austin returns and is rusty for real and takes out his problems on both heels and faces. He goes overboard in trying to kill HHH at Survivor Series which is heel hint #1. Jim Ross even said Austin was going over the edge. Austin goes onto win the Rumble and even battles fan favourite The Rock. Austin is then challenged by HHH and he loses a ppv match and a feud. BINGO!!!! Austin is not the same man anymore and use that to make fans believe he doubts himself before going up against the popular Rock whom he defeated at WrestleMania before. They did not play up Austin's injury perhaps playing with his mind and performance. That would have explained why the new Austin would seek the help of Mcmahon and it would also show Austin would do anything to get back ontop of the wwf(still sticking to his character). In hindsight they should have turned HHH face, but even if he wanted to stay heel they should have separated the two and caused friction with the Mcmahon family. They should have played it that the fans would eventually hope Austin would come to his senses and stun Vince because I believe that is a major reason why Austin had trouble turning heel in some places. His character was one that would just use Vince for the title and then stun him and turn back to the fans. They should have just played that up and not try to force the heeldom to make fans boo. Eventually the fans would get annoyed with Austin staying with Vince. It had to be gradual for the turn to make sense after what he did at WM 17. This is all hindsight though and I can see why they wanted HHH and Austin together immediately to stop fans backing Austin, but it damaged his character.

I wouldn't call it nonsensical either, BUT they should have explained why Austin needed Vince better. They had enough ammo for it imo, but they went a cheesy route with Austin saying he was tired of the fans sponging on him. They might have even got the crowd to boo Austin if they went with some think was an original plan with Austin turning on Debra when she was managing Rock. What was non-sensical was teaming him with Triple H so quickly.

Thank You! You are very right!

I quit too. I even stated in my posts I don't think it's smart to have Bret appear at SummerSlam and I don't think it will happen. The whole post is hypothetical. I do think someone will interfere and it may be HHH. Keep me to that. I say this because of the rumours of Hogan/HHH. It may lead to HHH/Flair as well because of Hogan/Flair in the 80's. They will find something else for HHH to do and do Angle/Cena. HHH and HBK reforming is what I really think might happen.

Obviously people have problems reading paragraphs If you could read between the lines you would see it was hypothetical on what could be a snowball effect in terms of rumours simply from what has transpired recently. Look, it's possible in people's mind the man will even APPEAR on a wwe show this sunday. I was being hypothetical because HBK is having an autobiography released in October and Bret's DVD is coming out around Survivor Series supposedly. Then add in rumours with the HOF and WrestleMania being in Chicago and the 10th anniversay of the ironman match and tell me the damn internet rumours aren't going to get flamed to high heaven. That was the point of my post. I didn't say I thought this was fact or even happening. I'm sure Vince must have seen the big picture as well because it all fits. If he could get away with this he would. People are acting like Vince is some angel who cares about people's health ahead of big money. He was going to release the Bret Hart Screwed DVD for crying out loud before blackmailing Hart to come back in some capacity. Why is it so hard to imagine Vince doesn't have another motive for doing this. BTW, we got two big egoes clashing on sunday where both men don't like to job. You think Vince might have thought of this and use it to try to get Bret on screen either for SummerSlam? I'm saying if Vince could push his limits he WILL.

Okay, we'll see! Just like people said HBK was never coming back and countless other things. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Check this site out and then you might get into your head what a stroke is. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess my eyes were lying to me when Bret was on TSN sportscenter doing physical moves in a ring on a stage. You guys are acting like the man is a vegetable in a wheelchair. He did a documentary on national television here in Canada on the sports network trying to get into people's head he is not that badly off. Get that into your head!!!!! BTW, I AM NOT SAYING BRET IS COMING BACK FOR A MATCH FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME!!!!

They'll probably trade him back to smackdown and put him in the Eddie story. I mean they can go so far with this dysfunctional family with Eddie and his son. Maybe that's why Chavo changed his name. He's embarrassed. There's some continuity wwe

So, Bret Hart can't come out on television and not do a storyline without any soft physicality you are telling me? A simple interference is so beyond Bret's fragile state. Guys the man was moving around on stage here in Toronto doing the Aladdin play He was doing mock wrestling moves in a ring people.

Okay, we'll see! Just like people said HBK was never coming back and countless other things.

Look at the topic of the thread. I don't think anyone here is really saying Bret is coming back for a match. What they are saying is Bret and the wwe could be thinking up ways to milk this for their own advantage and teasing a Bret match isn't above them even if it can't happen. Who knows if it will make them money, but it hasn't stopped them before has it? Again, read my posts again. I believe a storyline will come out of this not necessarily a match. The match was just to add flames on rumours that could start popping up.

Yeah, some of the storylines in 99 were okay. I think it really started to tank after WM 15 though.

I accept that he's not wrestling. Where did it say otherwise? I'm just going off what could be going through the minds of Bret and Vince with that handshake and deal. They see dollar signs with a DVD and then start seeing dollar signs in other things that lead to other things. I mean who would have thought Hogan in 2002 would become champion one month after a match with Rock? Understand I'm going off these people's greed for the limelight and money.

This is it right there. It's not about being all smarkish about inconsistencies for stuff like this. It's just makes fans think that nothing really matters at the end of the show because it's just a show. They aren't getting the fans emotionally involved as they use to. Someone stated on here months ago that when Austin turned heel and sided with Vince it was really the nail in the coffin that nothing matters because they will be inconsistent with things. Then they wonder why business is down at house shows and so on. For some viewers at home the damage has already been done. Having Shane break someone's leg at a house show is not going to immediately make fans think the house show matches mean anything after years and years of conditioning fans to think otherwise.

I never said this would happen. I'm stating that I wouldn't put it past Bret and Vince doing this with the past history of professional wrestling. Vince Mcmahon got Andre out of retirement supposedly for the Hogan match at Mania 3 with his health problems.

Some true stuff you said there TNABaddboi. WrestleMania 14(one of the best if not the best opening promo for WrestleMania ever) and SummerSlam 98 are my favourite of that era too for the reasons you mentioned. I really believe the strength of 1998 was the reason why the wwe got so hot and when it started to do stupid shit in 1999 the momentum of that year sustained the heat of the company. If the years were reversed I think wcw might have had a better chance because 99 sucked big time imo. Survivor Series that year also made Rock into a bona fide main eventer although the matches sucked(which might have been a precursor for the crap in 1999). That whole 1998 was superb. I think pochorenella you are right about how the feuds were built for Mania X-7. That might be it. There's no real reason for certain matches at the event. Angle/Benoit was good no doubt, but the build said it all. They just put them together because they both didn't have anything to do. The TLC had no backstory. Vince and Shane was a nice sports entertainment segment, but perhaps the story behind it now seems too silly to make the match mean anything. Not to mention the crapola between Vince and Shane with the Invasion afterwards. WM XX will stand the test of time and some may not like it here, but HHH had a lot to do with it after his lengthy ass reign. Hell, even Goldberg/Brock is memorable although for the wrong reasons. If they just cut out the tag team title matches that Mania is pretty good top to bottom.

Yeah, I know, but remember I said to put Bret in the same category as all pro wrestlers. They don't listen. Austin was a prime example. Hogan is another one with his hip. Piper. Foley. Benoit with his neck condition. Paul Orndorff with his arm problem. Yokozuna with his weight problem. Kurt Angle at Mania 19. Remember Bret continuing that match at Maple Leaf Garden after being severly injured for a house show? The list is endless. Piper called it the "sickness" and on sports radio in Toronto, he kind of refrained from calling it that and stated that he now understands it a bit. He said that regular people don't understand wrestlers for doing this and when they leave and retire and explain this stuff to other people they don't understand. So, they come back to wrestling because the fraternity and brotherhood understand why they do this and can't get enough of it. I'm not saying the actual wrestling is for sure, but the wwe must know they are setting themselves up for a complete dud if they don't have Bret in a storyline somehow with all they are currently doing. Unless somehow HBK turns back face, but after last night it seems he turned it up a notch.

I don't think Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan would draw anything at all. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I also think Project "Get Orton over as a Legend Killer" has been put on the shelf. For now anyways. Beating Taker now is meaningless imo, but really he didn't deserve to main event Mania or beat Taker at the event.

You know, I'm on the fence with this. I've read, seen, and heard from Bret's mouth that he wouldn't come back for anything unless it was to say good bye to the fans. This is all well and good, but I think we should put Bret in the category of all pro wrestlers here. How many have kept their word and not returned? The only person I can really say is friggin Bruno Sammartino. Sammartino has been approached many times and he still balks at Vince Mcmahon's requests for anything. The problem with Bruno is that his true fanbase perhaps is very minimal with today's product and he might be out of place. Bret on the other hand is a different story and we do know the man has an ego from the Montreal stuff and even before that with his "I don't make mistakes and I don't injure anybody" quotes in the past his ego must be going through the roof watching all this stuff go down on television. If they keep on teasing Bret and increase fans thirst to see the guy he will have an excuse that he came back because even his hardest critics wanted him to. Bret already asked at his website what fans would think if he came back months ago. Now some make valid points about here about not hyping Bret at the show, but in some ways they have. I forgot the point about Bret having his wcw ppv debut at the MCI Center. Personally, I would not have Bret come back at SummerSlam and I would just build HBK up even more as a heel and then put him against John Cena at Survivor Series. HBK has a book coming out in October and Bret's DVD supposedly is coming out around Survivor Series. I really do have a feeling they are building up to Survivor Series with some kind of storyline with HBK and Bret. NOW TO REALLY FLAME THINGS!!!! WrestleMania 22 is in Chicago and rumour has it they want Bret Hart inducted in the HOF. Now if Bret could have one last match(I know about all the stuff saying otherwise, but remember when HBK said the showstopper was dead and soon after he started feuding with HHH?**Also, just a few weeks back HBK went on record saying he wouldn't turn heel because of his religion and look what we got)wouldn't it be REALLY interesting if Bret and Shawn had their final showdown in Chicago. I mean it would be a decade since the ironman match and Chicago was suppose to be the place where the rematch was going to happen at WM 13. Of course, I know I'm just probably hyping myself up for a big dud where Bret doesn't come back and we get HHH/HBK 2,000,000 at Mania.

A lot of them really legit hate Shawn Michaels. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> SO TRUE!!!! A crowd that gives that kind of heat is letting off some serious passion and then to add his feud with Hulk Hogan in Montreal and it was guaranteed fireworks.

I think it had to do with Shawn Michaels more than the Canada thing too. However, that feud was definitely hitting some nerves. I remember being in a public washroom in a bar and it had HF(Canada) vs. America(DX/LOD) with America sucks written over it. I think people in the States forget how passionate fans in Canada are towards their wrestling.

In terms of babyface stardom yes, but in terms of top heel which he wanted Bret to be with the anti-America stuff HBK was his guy. Hell, UT made it seem like HBK would have avoided jobbing to Austin(I know he said it as I've seen it, but I still find it hard to believe and I also did remember Russo saying he wanted HBK to win the match as well). Before the back injury, HBK was more of a sure thing than Austin who was still recovering from the neck injury from SummerSlam.

On the flipside side to that Vince wanted his departing champion to lay down for the guy he wanted to lead the company, so I can see why Vince wanted it to be Shawn Michaels. There's argument to both sides.

Ah, seriously it's not wwe's fault. The crowd would have expected Bret Hart because they announced on the wwe website that he was back even if it was for the DVD alone. You know fans expect swerves and the wwe just gave them a swerve to distract them from thinking a swerve was coming with Bret coming out. Maybe all the "shooting" by Hogan namedropping Hart last week just made it worse. Remember the wwe and Matt Hardy were supposedly done with too, yet they were getting "We Want Matt" chants. HBK is the devil in Montreal no matter what

All you need is a basic storyline and bring the great wrestling, after all, what was Flair/Steamboat? Humble family man vs. the arrogant rich womanizer <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is true for the most part. It's when they try to get cute they screw up. I mean, they tried to be cute with the Orton push by going opposite what wrestling convention states. At least they got it right with Batista for the most part. Another thing is inconsistencies. I know it's a house show, but why in the world was Viscera helping Trish when it was Viscera who put her on the shelf?

I have the DVD, but they don't actually show a complete match with Mean Mark. It doesn't have the debut UT match either. Funny how they don't do this for HBK and UT, two men who basically stayed with the company since the early 90's(yes, I know of stories of both men trying to leave).