Hunter's Torn Quad

Well, the post that got me thinking was in the Triple H HoF thread. The situation I theorized would probably never happen, as I don't think anyone would be interested in taking the subjectivity excuse that far, nor would it ever get that far before the insults started flying. It was more of an example of how ridiculous the subjectivity excuse could get, and while it technically might be true, it's not really any way to go about having an argument. I think you''ll be surprised how far certain people on here will go to try and prove their point, especially when others have brought out fact after fact to show they're wrong. Too many people think that because they have the right to have an opinion it means they have the right to insist their opinion is valid, even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

Just as well I put you on ignore, or I might have to read more drivel.

I've tried to explain it to you. I've even tried making it very simple. If you still don't get it, and even think that only Shawn has something to win or lose, then you're a hopeless case. Someone else try.

Care to name names?

Or it could be that they really don't feel Hunter is HoF material, and it has nothing to do with them wanting to 'prove' they aren't marks.

The WWF's greatest heights financially were 2000, and unless you were watching a different 2000 to the rest of us, Rock was there too, and he and Hunter were against each other for a lot of it. Austin came back in September of that year, so you can't say Austin wasn't a part of that success either.

Austin can get booed, but he has to work hard at it. The problem is that the people don't want to pay to see an Austin they 'have to' boo. They want to pay to see an Austin who kicks the shit out of people, flips the bird, and gives stunners left and right. Anything else won't really draw.

I think that is a very good question you bring up despite the fact that you don't seem to think that it is one. Who IS going to be the face in that match? I'm sure both will go in as faces technically, but I mean who will the majority of fans support? You say Austin, but as of right now I'd think it would be Hogan. It will be interesting to see how that aspect of the match plays out. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That depends entirely on how the match is built.

They already did the Chono v Outsider goes to a draw deal with Akiyama in 2003, and I didn't want to do that again so soon. I would have likely had Kawada beat Chono anyway. I wanted to give Suzuki another strong win, and with Nagata alread being upset by Kashin, I felt Tenzan made the best choice to lose to Suzuki. Plus, as you mentioned, it puts them on six points each, and adds real doubt. I wasn't sure whether to put Fujinami over Nishimura or not, but there were already a bunch of people in contention for second place, and I didn't want Fujinami to get beaten too many times, because of his legend status. Nagata is the one who always seems to lose in the G1 to that one person who it feels like he should be able to beat, but doesn't. I didn't want to totally bury Kashin, and Nagata can shoulder a loss like this better than most.

What the fuck are you saying? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> im saying, suck my dick. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nice. Well, you've had your fun 'Jay'. Off to the land of Me Can't Post No More for you.

Tell 'Jay' to register here and post himself or stop posting what 'Jay' has to say.

I think 'booger red' is some sort of Southern expression.

I think Austin will win the match, and Hogan will at least try to go over. Whether Austin lets Hogan do that, like Rock unwittingly did, remains to be seen.

But my point is why would Hogan have anything to get back? Did any of Hogan's fans care than Rock pinned him clean? Nah, he went right on to beat HHH for the title, just like he would have won at WM. I seriously doubt people would say "Well Hogan/Austin is a dream match, I would order it but Hogan lost to Shawn, he must suck now." Anyway, I think the finish for this match is the most important out of Hogan/Rock, Hogan/Michaels, and Hogan/Austin. Neither Rock or Austin are wrestling anymore, just Shawn, he's the only one that could actually use a win over Hogan for something. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> People don't pay to see Hogan wrestle to see him lose, unless it's something so huge and monumental that the aura of the match means it doesn't matter. Rock v Hogan was like that. Austin v Hogan will be like that. Shawn v Hogan is not like that. People pay to see Hogan be Hogan. They pay to see Hogan sell for a little while, Hulk Up, wag his finger, hit the big boot, hit the legdrop, and get the pin. If it's a match so big that Hogan can afford to lose and it won't matter because the match is so big, then Hogan can lose, because the nature of the match is such that it overcomes any winners or losers. For all the hype it's been getting, Shawn v Hogan is not such a match. Austin v Hogan is. If Hogan is going to do a job to anyone, it's going to be Austin, not to Shawn.

I was in each one of those threads explaining why the reasons given did not make any sense. A loss to Michaels won't affect Austin/Hogan in the slightest. Just like a clean lost to the Rock didn't affect Hogan getting the world title a month later or the match this Sunday. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If Hogan was sticking around until WM 22, I could see an argument for Hogan losing here then getting his back later. But Hogan isn't sticking around. Hogan comes in for a month or so, builds to a match, then leaves. Unless the cirumstances are exceptional, Hogan isn't coming in to lose. Austin v Hogan would be one such exception. Shawn v Hogan is not. Austin v Hogan is the Holy Grail of Wrestling. Shawn v Hogan is not.

Not to the masses.

They want Austin v Hogan at WM 22, and unless something major happens, they're getting it, and that means Hogan wins. He has to. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As usual, HTQ is correct. Austin vs. Hogan is one of the last "dream" (not a smark dream match, mind you) matches that the marks will pay to see. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's the Holy Grail of Matches. Austin v Hogan will set records, of that I have no doubt.

They want Austin v Hogan at WM 22, and unless something major happens, they're getting it, and that means Hogan wins. He has to. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've yet to hear any good reason for this. Why does Austin v Hogan at WM22 mean Hogan has to win? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you've yet to hear any good reasons for this, then you've not been reading the various threads that have come up surrounding this match and the proposed Austin v Hogan match. Go find one of them.

They want Austin v Hogan at WM 22, and unless something major happens, they're getting it, and that means Hogan wins. He has to.

Someone asked about Savage on the Observer site, asking why he hadn't signed a legends deal. This was Dave's reply:

I agree with Brian. Hunter is a good worker, and can be very smart in the ring, but I feel that gets offset by his laziness/selfishness when it comes to working with people he doesn't want to really put over; both Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash had the same weaknesses in that they couldn't do long matches without gimmicks to hide those weaknesses, but it was only his friend that he played it smart with, while Steiner was exposed right off the bat. His drawing ability is solid too, but while he was on top during the WWF's best financial year, on his own, he hasn't had that HoF-level juice. For me, though, the biggest negative is his largely negative impact when it comes to business. Hunter has derailed and squashed numerous wrestlers, and squandered away the money that went with them, that I don't think he should be in any worthwhile HoF. While you can say the same of someone like Hulk Hogan, at least Hogan was a mega draw for an extended period, and helped put wrestling on the map.

I found this from an old LAW news update:

He still wound up getting a pin over Austin at No Mercy. It still doesn't change the fact that Austin didn't refuse to put Hunter over at Summerslam.

That's an interesting question. I can see it going either way. Either Vince wouldn't care, he'd become an on-air character again and we'd get a lot more Triple H & The Undertaker, or he would care, and it'd have to involve a helluva lot more than Sunday Night Heat fodder. It'd have to be, like, the current World Champion or some shit. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Vince would push Triple H and company even harder in an effort to prove that they are the real draws, and that he doesn't need the wrestlers who walked out. It would take Vince losing money or getting ratings so low that Raw or SD risk getting cancelled before he changes his direction.

Austin never refused to put over HHH at Summerslam. The match got changed because with Austin banged up, it was felt he and Hunter wouldn't have been able to have the expect great match, and so Mankind was put in to help carry the load.