RavishingRickRudo

Now, compound what happened with Jasmine. She did both. By taking away the hate, she purified humans. But she also stripped away their free will, destroying the essence of humanity, what makes them different from animals. You are, again, being pretty liberal with your interpretation. This is a stretch. Meanwhile, you have the characters on the show as well as the writers on the show saying that Jasmine was a former powers. It means he could work for both the Powers and, after he was betrayed by them through Angel, a member of the opposing party. It would explain why he maneuvered Cordy, as payback at Angel. Or he could have been working for Jasmine -former PTB- all along and that he was part of an elaborate plan which included Cordy getting and keeping the visions. Which was the explanation given on the show, I believe. In Cavalry, Lilah says that the Beast took out all of Wolfram and Hart, including field ops and people on leave. WR&H was also competition to Jasmine as they had the resources availible to prevent Jasmine from spreading her message. This still falls in line with the "former power that be" stuff.

I'd say that's more because of his general success in the "peak" period time and he's getting the left-over cheers from the fans who see him and go "Oh, he used to be popular we should clap!". The gimmick itself isn't even a gimmick anymore. He hasn't released any videos or made reference to being a porn star in a very, very, very long time. He's just a sleazy ladies man now. And it's not enough to survive.

Rebuttal: Disagreed. The porn star gimmick was limiting. It's pretty easy to figure out why - do you think Vince would want a Porn Star to hold the big belt? ".. and your new WWF champion is Val Venis"? It was a short term thing, over as a midcard act, but it ran its course by 2000 and Val was in limbo. They weren't able to successfully transition him out of the gimmick into something with more growth potential and he has stayed in limbo ever since. How one could call his Trish Stratus run "doing just fine" is beyond me.

Here's the basis for the theory, I'll expand as needed: Jasmine was a senior partner 1. Jasmine stripped away free will, essentially destroying humanity (Tro-Clan prophesy). Expand on TCP. You're being pretty liberal with the word "destory". 2. Jasmine's face was almost exactly like Voca's (from to Shanshu in LA), who was from the underworld, after the glamour was stripped away. I'd blame lazy effects guys for this. 3. Skip was a freelance, mentioning that he was a merc in "Inside Out". Dunno what this has to do with anything. Skip was the guy who imprisoned Billy, why would WR&H imprison their own guy? 4. Jasmine used evil to do her work. Yes. She was a former power that turned bad. Bad people tend to do evil things. However, she had some good intentions... or said she did. The Road to hell is paved with em... 5. Beast severed her connection to the other Senior Partner's relatively quickly after gaining her memory, by destroying Wolfram and Hart. The Beast wanted what was in the conduit to block out the sun. 6. The prophesy said that Wolfram and Hart would sever angel's connection to the PTB, and did so through Jasmine taking out Cordy You are forgetting that Skip was the one who helped Cordy in maintaining the visions by turning her into part demon.

Ok, what are they?

I am not talking about favourites, though. I am talking about "Best Overall SEASON". Season 5, clearly, was the most well developed in terms of each individual episode having meaning and theme. That's why "Family" is such a good episode, because it is the theme of the season (with the subthemes being Love and Blood, both connected to the overall theme). Let me put it this way, if you had to choose which Season to do a paper on, which would it be? For me it's easily Season 5 because there is SO MUCH THERE to talk about. You can't find that depth in any other season.

But his promos suck. Like, really, really, really bad.

Overall, Season 5 was the best season. There cannot really be any debate here on that. The simple fact that it kept consistant themes throughout the season and it ALL came together for The Gift. On top of that, it had some killer "peak" episodes.

Bah, they should have brought in ringers from previous seasons. I wanted to see Wes vs. Ken!

I think that's the point Season 3 and 2 have gotten way too much representation, IMO. I understand why, that was the peak of Buffys "mainstream" period. It was the peak of my original fandom as I stopped watching around Season 4. So yeah, it's going to be looked at favourably. But it does not have nearly the same quality as Season 5. Season 5 is at a totally different level.

You don't like The Body; you don't like Family? ARE YOU INSANE!?!?

I didn't like seeing Anya fighting Buffy. I like Season 5 Anya.

Writing those blurbs. Jesus Christ that took way too much of my time.

Buffy Season 5 is the best season in all of television. *Every* episode weaved together and was relevant to the final episode and overall theme. BRILLIANT storytelling that I have not seen met in any show on TV. I say this without an ounce of fanboyism, as it's not even my favourite Season of his (3rd favourite, actually). As for Firefly, I can't objectively speak on it as it is my favourite television show ever and will remain as such. However, as I say both of these things, 2Gold has a point. Condensing is not one of Josses strong suits. He had to do it for Firefly's Series Premiere and that was the worst episode of Firefly (granted, there were "other" reasons for that - he thought they would air his pilot first), and had way too much exposition. It suffered greatly. With that said, when he had 2 hours to fill, Joss hit a homerun with the pilot. As for Whedon being "not the man to get this done", how the fuck isn't he?! 1. He WRITES an Xmen comic book that has been getting praise. 2. He helped write the first one. 3. He clearly is a fan, having named his company "Mutant Enemy", to go along with the above. 4. He is an inventive storyteller and director. I'll cite "Restless", "Hush", "The Body", "Once More with Feeling", "The Gift", "Objects in Space", "Serenity", and "Hole in the World" as overwhelming evidence. 5. If we can assume that X3 will deal with Jean Grey returning as the DP, then Joss has retold that story a bunch of times on his television shows. Joss is experienced in love triangles, tales of loss and grief, the supernatural, as-well-as the metaphors which the Xmen represent.

You made me cry.

Brian. Recount. Now.

I'd just like to mention that I am a bigger fan than all of you... put together. These things should be about discussion, not just ranking. I bring discussion. Eat it. Bracket A: Once More, With Feeling (6.07) Through the Looking Glass (2.21) (NUMFAR~!) This gets the nod because I've never really liked OMWF as an episode. Selfless (7.05) Loyalty (3.15) Argh. I'd give it to any episode against Selfless by default; "Loyalty" is a great episode and deserves better competition. Primevil (4.21) WITW had some really good stuff and some really bad stuff. I enjoyed Primevil more, plus it didn't jump-start any horrible relationships. Waiting in the Wings (3.13) Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22) Billy (3.06) Don't give a fuck! Billy fucking ruled it hard. GradDay, while good, didn't have the ballstomping swankness that Billy had. Choices (3.19) Sleep Tight (3.16) Any episode in this arc is moving up. What’s My Line, Part 2 (2.10) Godammit. I need to watch DE again, but WMLP2 has always been a favourite of mine going back to when it was originally aired. Dead End (2.18) Who Are You?, Part 2 (4.16) Benediction (3.21) The climax of the Holtz era, a lot of shit got stirred and at the time it was pretty fucking fun. Need to watch it again, but it beats out WAYP2. Pangs (4.08) Spin the Bottle (4.06) Watched this the other day. Fucking owned it hard. Wes is soooo the manster. Didn’t like Pangs the first time I saw it, didn’t like it the second time I saw it. I guess I just had indians. Hush (4.10) Habeas Corpses (4.08) UP SET. HC is one of my favourite episodes EVAR, and Hush is plenty good and stuff but it doesn’t hold the same ass kicking place in my heart. Tabula Rasa (6.08) Proving I don’t totally favour Angel over Buffy, this was fucking HILARIOUS and I hope it meets up with Spin the Bottle in a future round. I need to watch the Angelus Season 4 storyline over, because I initially loved it, but since then have found it left a bad aftertaste. Soulless (4.11) Lies My Parents Told Me (7.17) Deep Down (4.01) As much as I love the Spike/Wood/Giles/Buffy dynamic, I thought Deep Down was an incredibly satisfying premiere and was able to “turn the corner” on a lot of the unresolved issues from season 3. And very little Cordy. AWESOME! Earshot (3.18) I actually favour Somnabulist more because I loved the concept of it, but this is one of those rare occasions that I go against personal feeling because it wasn’t the greatest execution of the concept. Though the moral lesson in Earshot was ass. Somnambulist (1.11) Lover’s Walk (3.08) Are You Know or Have You Ever Been There (2.02) By default. I hated the Xander/Willow stuff, probably more than Angel/Cordy. Yeah, bet that shocked ya. Yoko Factor (4.20) Lullaby (3.09) I have two windows open. One is an Angel Episode List and the other is a Buffy Episode list. Usually I need a refresher to help my decisions. Not now. Lullaby is all sorts of ball stomping ass whoopin. Great, memorable, finishing sequence. Becoming, Part 1 (2.21) Tough one, but the Angel flashbacks put Becoming over the top. Inside Out (4.17) Check Point (5.12) FUCK. I loved underneath and wanted to represent the AB, but FUCK, “She’s a God” just owns. The whole episode owned. *Makes Jayne face, the one that he made when he ripped off all the tape in Jaynestown. Yeah, that one. And the whimper* Underneath (5.17) Bracket B: No Place like Home (5.05) Not Fade Away (5.22) It’s an easy decision because NFA is going all the way, but NPLH had the amazing sequence with the monk. Intervention (5.18) Funny, Touching, Criminally Underrated. When I think about it, a top Buffy episode. Recognize, this may be the sleeper. Dear Boy (2.05) Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered (2.16) The pylea arc is in the doghouse with me right now, and this was a pretty fun episode with SMOKING HOT BUFFY in it. Holla. There’s No Place Like Plrtz Glrb (2.22) Dirty Girls (7.18) While City Of was a good enough Series Premiere to hook me on the show (really, the theme did ), Dirty Girls had Fillion. FILLION WINS (why wasn’t Firefly included in this? Oh, that’s right, it would have been an all Firefly Quarter finals. HOLLA. City of (1.01) Doppelgangland (3.16) Lineage (5.07) Though I consider it one of the lesser Season 5 episodes, it *did* have the “You’ll never take me Pavayne!” which puts it over the Willow-centric (Willow bad... and I’m not talking about her as a vamp) episode. What’s My Line, Part 1 (2.09) To Shanshu in LA (1.22) One of the most integral episodes in Angels history, and killer to boot. Revelations (3.07) Shells (5.16) Such a fucking good episode. It’ll be hard for me to vote against it. Restless (4.22) Surprisingly easy decision. Restless is one of my faves. Time will tell if I regret not thinking this out more. Peace Out (4.22) Consequences (3.15) Forgiving (3.17) Angel: I want you to know that I understand why you did it. I know about the Prophecies, and I know how hard it must have been for you to... do what you did. You thought I was going to turn evil and kill my son. I didn't. It's important that you know that. This isn't Angelus talking, it's me, Angel. You know that right? Good. (Angel attacks Wesley) You son of a bitch, you're gonna pay for what you did! You took my son! You son of a bitch! You bastard! You think I'd forgive you?! Never! You're gonna die! You hear me? You're gonna pay! (Orderlies come in, pulling Angel away) You took my son! You took my son! You took my son. Never! Never! Never! I'll kill you! You're dead! You're a dead man, Pryce! You're dead! I'll kill you, I'll kill you! You're a dead man! Dead! Dead! Angel (1.07) Can’t remember either very well, but this gets bonus points for -you know- setting the foundation for the entire series of Angel. Offspring (3.07) Bad Girls (3.07) Hero (1.09) Have I mentioned that I hate Bad Girls? This was one of the episodes that started my disinterest in the series at the time. Hero, on the other hand, gets me misty every single time. Becoming, Part 2 (2.22) Probably the pinnacle of Buffys early years, this had everything in it. Very, very memorable, and absolutely wonderful. Hell Bound (5.04) Fear, Itself (4.04) Reunion (2.10) Shit, this might be the toughest one. How unexpected. Fear, Itself was fucking hilarious the last time I saw it (the ending always gets me) and it had BUNNY ANYA! But shit, it could have a dozen Bunny Anyas and it wouldn’t match the bewilderment of the end scene in Reunion. SHOCKING~! Amends (3.10) Epiphany (2.16) At the time, it was like this huge weight lifted off your shoulders. They did a fantastic job with the arc and it had you emotionally invested. I loved the snowfall scene in Amends, its one of the enduring images of Buffy, but I’m giving it to Epiphany. Graduation Day, Part 1 (3.21) Sacrifice (4.20) Big Time episode that basically explains it all and puts the entire season into perspective. Zeppo (3.13) Origin (5.18) This is a fucking joke. How in gods name is Season 3 Buffy getting this much attention when I have barely seen any Season 5 stuff. Bullshit. Origin deserves better competition! Bracket C: Helpless (3.12) You’re Welcome (5.12) Another well rounded episode that started off a great arc. Helpless, unlike a bunch of other shitty Season 3 episodes, deserves to be here, but it’s playing against the big boys. School Hard (2.03) Really fun episode that is really satisfying. I love the Snyder/Joyce stuff. In The Dark (1.03) Grave, Part 2 (6.02) As much as I hate to validate the Witchy Willow run (and I do hate it), its up against weak competition. Disharmony (2.17) Lie To Me (2.07) Five by Five (1.18) God those pussy ass posers were pussies in Lie to Me. I haven’t seen Five by Five in a while, but this is another weak competition thing. I guess with a tournament this big, you have to weed em out. Innocence, Part 2 (2.14) Another tough one. I kinda wish these two were put up against the last 2 winners so these two could go on. Oh well. Quickening had Hotlz’ debut but Innocence had the debut of Angelus. And he was funner here. Quickening (3.08) Something Blue (4.09) Cavalry (4.12) I remember really loving this at the time. Though I haven’t seen either in a while. Oh well. Crush (5.14) James Marsters was giving a Tour De Force during Season 5, and this is indicative of it. He plays it well. The revoking of his “entering” abilities is great because it gets played up in The Gift. Did I mention Season 5 was magnificent and got fucked here? Sanctuary (1.19) Conversations With Dead People (7.07) I can’t wait to watch Awakening again because at the time it was such a assfuck to learn it was all a dream, which was great. But not was great as Holden. Awakening (4.10) New Moon Rising (4.19) A Hole in the World (5.15) I love me this. I love me it long and hard. Fanturstic. Triangle (5.11) Redefinition (2.11) Yeah yeah yeah, Bunnies, Olaf, yeah yeah yeah, FUCK THAT. Redef was all sorts of whompass. FUCK THAT. Chosen (7.22) Aw fuck. I liked Chosen, and it gets points, but fuck, it wasn’t up against the stiffest of competition here and it could have been owned by, like, the 20th best Angel episode. The Price (3.19) Band Candy (3.06) Apocalypse Nowish (4.07) I really like Band Candy, but shit, as great as Giles/Joyce is, it cannot compare to THE BEAST. Blood Ties (5.13) Darla (2.07) Bit of an upset here. Haven’t seen Blood Ties in a while, nor Darla, but my gut tells me Darla was better. BT was a lil too dramatic. Fool For Love (5.07) I actually said “fuck” when I read this. I didn’t think it and I didn’t type it, I said it. These two deserve to be higher, Power Play deserves to be in Darlas spot. Fuck this shit. FUCK THIS SHIT. Power Play (5.21) Nightmares (1.10) Destiny (5.08) “I was made to love you”, “Buffy vs. Drac” “Real Me” “FAMILY” “Forever” “Tough Love” SIX Season 5 episodes that make Nightmare it’s bitch. None of them represented in this tournament (Family not getting a spot is a fucking travesty). This isn’t even a competition. This is an insult. The Gift (5.22) This is more like it. I mean, it’s not even close because The Gift is a fucking Juggernaut, but at least there was a quality episode being represented. Soul Purpose was great on the fucked up level and had some fun. The Gift is the pinnacle of Storytelling. If anyone questions you on your love of Buffy, you tell them about the Gift. Soul Purpose (5.10) Bracket D: The Body (5.16) Like swatting a fly. The Body was visceral. It takes you and wears you out and puts you down. Eternity (1.17) Villains (6.20) Home (4.22) Admittedly, Villains was great. It almost redeemed all of Season 6. Home, however, concluded like 2+ years of storytelling and did it masterfully. Faith, Hope, and Trick (3.03) I hate “I’m in your mind” episodes, and this one is no exception. Though the Angel-saving-a-kitty thing was great. FHAT had some significance, so it gets by on that, cause I havent seen it in fucks long. Orpheus (4.15) Prophecy Girl (1.12) I think this was the episode that made me really take notice, at the time, that this was a really good fucking show. I liked Heartthrob in theory, as I love the idea of friends from Angeluses past haunting Angel, but it was worthless in the end. Heartthrob (3.01) Spiral (5.20) I loved the twist with Ben at the end, and the concept of Buffy running is great. I think its one of the weaker episodes, along with its follow up, of season 5, but hey, it’s Buffy Season 5 here. I was at first thinking about putting over IWRY, but I haven’t see it in a while. I Will Remember You (1.08) Halloween (2.06) Really fun episode. Had some great moments and it really worked the gimmick well. That Vision Thing (3.02) Passion (2.17) Shit shit shit shit shit. I fucking hate this. Fuck. Time Bomb was such a fucking great episode. Fuck. But Passion was really really good. Fuck. Such a poorly booked tournament. Shame on you Brian. Shame. Time Bomb (5.19) A New Man (4.12) Holy Crap, Buffy is going on 6 straight. Damage was okayish, but it’s rubbing shoulders with Giants in Angel Season 5. A New Man was brilliant, and was a Giant rubbing shoulders with midgets in Season 4. Damage (5.11) The Wish (3.09) A nice battle between the alternate realities caused by Cordy, and the Wish wins in the end. When I see Birthday again, I’m sure I will like it, but The Wish was a high point. Birthday (3.11) The Prom (3.20) This was sorta tough, I need to see The Trial again, but the ending of The Prom and Buffy getting recognized by her peers puts this one over for me. The Trial (2.01) Surprise, Part 1 (2.13) Reprise (2.15) Ya know, if this were a Wrestling card, I imagine this match would be the main event, since they are both insanely strong episodes and its such a hard one to decide. I haven’t seen either in a LONG TIME, but Reprise gets it for me. I’ll have to watch it again to justify exactly why, but I doubt it’ll even move on when its against Buffy boinking. Welcome to the Hellmouth, Part 1 (1.01) Salvage (4.13) I was watching this the other day and it didn’t hold up. It did before, about a year ago, but not this time. Salvage was really good. I really need to watch my Angel dvds. This Years Girl, Part 1 (4.15) Long Day’s Journey (4.09) I hate body switching and I love me some BEAST. Holla. Phases (2.15) Release (4.14) I’m really looking forward to watching Angel Season 4 in full on DVD. That’s all I really have to say, as I am getting pretty tired here.... Wild at Heart (4.06) Smile Time (5.14)As much as I hate the love Smile Time gets (I liked the episode btw, its just the Ric Flair of Angel), Wild at Heart was ASS. Horrid. BAD. Family gets bumped for THIS? Enemies (3.17) Rm w/a Vu (1.05) The Pinnacle of Cordy in Angel, IMO. Enemies was good, but whatever. I liked Rm more.

CAN Jewel Staite look hotter? FIND OUT. CLICK LINK NOW! http://www.geocities.com/mfbespinluke/firefly

http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=6451 They rule. They all fucking rule... From Some Dude who I never heard of .... Went to the "Firefly" panel. Now...Jewel Staite (who used to work for me on "Space Cases" back when she was thirteen) and Nathan Fillion have been having a sort of bizarre contest since the earliest days of "Firefly." Basically they find new and innovative ways to flip each other off. It seemed that Nathan had the last word because, at the very end of the "Firfly" motion picture outtake reel, the words "For Jewel" appeared followed by an action figure of Nathan as Caleb extending his middle finger at her. So apparently Nathan won the contest. Not anymore. Because when they started doing their Q&A, Nathan happened to call on the fat bearded guy in the third row. And I stood up on the chairs, and bellowed, "Nathan! On behalf of Jewel..." at which point everyone in the packed ballroom got to their feet, "Dragon*Con salutes you!" And a room filled with over a thousand people extended their middle fingers at Nathan Fillion. Nathan took it as well as could be expected, admitting "that’s a lot of bird," although he did darkly warn several times that we had "f*cked up." Jewel was beaming, pleased with her (no pun intended) handiwork. Adam Baldwin looked serenely bemused.

Yeah, you guys sold out. You used to be about the music. *Quits the band*

I'll take his 12 1/2 seasons of work on Buffy, Angel, and Firefly over his Big Movie Stints. Since 1 has him in control and one doesn't.

Joss's feature directorial debut is with Serenity. His Jean/Scott/Wolverine storyline will fucking own us all.

Do you ever wonder why we never see Bischoffs sister/Eugenes Mother react to Eric torturing her son?? It because she IS Eugene - having had a sex change back in 1995. The operation was not a complete success, you see, as the medication went to her head giving her a split personality - the dominant personality, Eugene, and the submissive personality, Sister Bischoff. This is how and why she bitches to her brother about letting Eugene on TV. Think about it.

They should kill him off. He could, like, save the WWE by connecting two live-wires that were split and the show couldn't go on, so he sacrificed himself. And then maybe his ghost can haunt Bischoff.

Golden Fang Awards Angel Season 5: >> Best Lead Actress >> Amy Acker (By default, but still... great performances as Illyria and as dying Fred) >> Best Lead Actor >> James Marsters (Bullshit. Alexis smoked him. J.A.R. did too.) >> Best Limited Run >> Christian Kane (I thought Adam Baldwin did better) >> Favorite Black Thorn >> ArchDuke Sebassis (BULLSHIT. Izzy motherfuckers!) >> Most Surprising Moment >> Lorne Shoots Lindsey >> Not Fade Away (That, or Lindsey appearing.) >> Best Kill >> Fred >> A Hole In The World (No. Hamilton killing Security Guard or Angel killing SWAT guy in the first eps.) >> Best Villain >> Smile Time Puppets (Say it with me now... BULL... SHIT... I dunno who the best one was, but it wasn't them) >> Funniest Moment >> Spike Sees Puppet Angel >> Smile Time (That, or Drunk Wes/Fred, or anything from GIQ) >> Best Fight >> Angel and Spike >> Destiny (Yep) >> Best Kiss >> Angel and Cordelia >> You’re Welcome (This does not follow the rule. The rule being: Angle/Cordy Bad. Best Kiss was Fred/Wes) >> Best Hair >> Illyria (Hmmm... I think Harmony should take it) >> Worst Hair >> The Buffy Wig (Sure) >> Best Style >> Cordelia and Spike (Freds skirts put her on top. Though Gunn was superPIMP.) >> Worst Style >> Knox (Oh that is whack. Worst Style was like... shut up! Knox ruled!) >> Most Underused Character >> Lorne (Eh. He was the least used, but I think Gunn could have been used better in terms of screen time.) >> Favorite Episode >> Smile Time (FUCK THIS. Not Fade Away, Hole in the World, hell, Life of the Party and The Girl in Question were FUNNIER therefore BETTER...) >> Best Writer >> Joss Whedon (as always) >> Favorite Quote >> Spike: You’re a wee little puppet man! >> Smile Time (Its up there, but its not on top. "Do you want me to lie to you?" I think was better)