RavishingRickRudo

Well that was obvious.

MGQ, you say the pacing was terrible, and I disagreed and my PBP showed how they were able to keep the pace at a constant rate and keep the fans' interest through mixing up a variety of moves and when they did the same moves more than once, it was done in a different manner. That's good, smart, work. Hogan concealing his lookback when Andre was about to kick him down from behind isn't necessarily a common thing, as a lot of wrestlers expose the business by blatently turning their head and looking behind them -see their opponent coming towards them- and then face forward and take the shot. The problem with the way you look at wrestling, and I would say that it is "wrong", is that your standard and the wrestlers' standards are different. So the things that you are looking for are not what the wrestlers are looking to do, nor is it really what the live audience (who the wrestlers play off of) are looking for either. So it's unfair and unreasonable. It's akin to looking at Schindlers List and saying it was awful because it didn't make you laugh, or watching The Naked Gun and saying it sucked because what the characters did in it didn't make sense and wasn't logical. Can't you see the problem in "not caring if the audience enjoyed it" when their goal (and every wrestlers goal) was for the audience to enjoy it and the fact that they successfully got the crowd to progressively get hotter and brought their emotions up and down throughout, and not factoring that into your evaluation? But let's hold it against a guy who could barely move that he didn't do a whole lot of big moves instead of looking at how he was able to use his limited movements and how is partner sold and worked around him to make a convincing domination period which got the crowd more behind Hogan than they were originally.

To write Hogan/Andre off as an "absolutely atrocious" match is to do it a tremendous disservice. It's not a perfect match by any means, but the work done in the match is extraordinary and cannot be measured, evaluated, or represented by a fucking star. How do you convey atmosphere and gravitas in a star? How do you measure the audience reaction with shift>8? How do you represent two guys who are very limited getting complete maximization out of every move? How do you rate two guys managing to get the entire fucking silverdome, 70,000 people, to go NUTS, after a simple clothesline? And then to go MORE nuts for a bodyslam? And then to even go MORE nuts after a leg drop? How do you show that in a star? I am not saying that star ratings are meaningless, but Hogan/Andre is beyond star ratings and whatever "objective analysis" one can come up with to explain those star ratings. This match works. And it works inspite of star ratings. And this match, above every other match, shows how wrestling can't be measured, it can't be objectified, it can't be broken down and categorized and defined and intellectualized and made and limited into an established criteria. You can't go into a match with this rigid view of how wrestling is and should be and -if the match doesn't fit in and doesn't meet those expectations- you dismiss it, even if it worked. If it worked, it worked, that's the only rule for wrestling. This was not a bad match, and if your system of grading matches says that it's a bad match, then it's a bad system. I know, because I tried to critically evaluate this match, I tried to look for this coherent, deep, story and tried to see some sort of workrate or whatever so I could explain that this wasn't a bad match. I tried to make the pieces fit into my criteria and I couldn't do it. But I knew it wasn't a bad match. It couldn't have been a bad match - look how the crowd reacted. Look how I reacted. Something in that match made it good and it wasn't what I had thought made matches good. So I chucked my system. It was completely unreasonable, and put emphasis on the wrong things, and didn't take others into consideration. Hogan and Andre didn't do a lot, but what they did was certainly sufficient, and this match and their work deserves to be appreciated and recognized. +The long walk down, belt around waist, simple and effective, giving the announcers time to set the stage. +Jesse Ventura going over the tale of the tape and in the manner he did (quickly and factually, making it important). +The staredown. It set things in place, it got the crowd ready for a slower paced match. +Joey Morella circling Andre and Hogan during their staredown. It helped show the size of the wrestlers and contrasted the stillness of the two. +Hogan talking to Andre, “Hulking up” as Jesse says, Andre pushes him back and Hogan returns the favour, Andre goes for a punch which Hogan easily blocks and fires back and quickly goes for the slam, which he is unable to do and he falls back and Andre crushes him for a close 2. What I especially liked about this is that it put Hogan almost immediately on the defensive and cut the match basically in half, structurally. It went straight past any formality in regards to putting Andre in control. Normally, in a match between two top guys, a wrestler takes control after a few minutes because both guys are fresh and they need to believably get into the position where one guy is beating the other. This is particularly important because the match couldn’t go long given the two wrestlers involved. Very smart. Also, it builds Hogan “doing the impossible” at the end of the match, as-well-as establishing Hogans desire to finish it quickly (which, again, becomes significant at the end of the match). Joey checking to the outside and Andre checking with Joey helps bring some importance to it, and Andre on his knees looking eye-to-eye with Joey is another great visual (which Joey helps create by slouching over). +Boot to send Hogan down (which looks great given both guys’ faces and Hogan does a nice job concealing the look-back). Andre clubbing Hogan three times. What I like about this is that all three clubs were different – one was when Andre had Hogans bent/head tucked under his arm, another was when Hogan was standing, and another had Andre holding Hogans hair. It doesn’t seem repetitive because he changes it up each time. Hogans selling of all of these were like he got shot. And in between clubs Andre was looking out into the crowd, taunting Hogan and telling him to get up. A knee lift that has Hogan shaking his head afterwards. A bodyslam, which looked fantastic given the camera view as it conveyed the drop and Hogan sorta bouncing back up with his hand outstretched and in pain was a great sell and then him laying on his stomach, face down into the mat, almost sobbing. The camera stays in the same place as Andre walks over and we get this tremendous visual conveying the size of Andre juxtaposed to the fallen Hogan. A long, slow zoom to Andres face helps add to it. “It almost seems like at this point in the bout, it is a mis-match” This sounds like something I’d hear out of Joe Rogan at a UFC event, I love it. Andre slams Hogan again and then steps over Hogan. This was nice and didn’t make the moves seem repetitive because of the quick follow-up. Two irish-whips later and Andre is looking out to the audience and yelling out to them. Two shoulder rams into the corner and a BUTT-smash. A headbutt and Hogan holds his forehead and turns his body into the turnbuckle. Andre goes for another headbutt, but Hogan ducks under and makes comeback of a few punches, and axe-bomber, and some chops in the turnbuckle. Sweat flies off Andre when Hogan chops him. Hogan smashes Andres head into the turnbuckle and the crowd counts along and Hogan is hyped. He runs in and gets booted by Andre and the crowd gets dejected. I like how Hogans comeback contrasted Andres domination. Andres was more slow and methodical (where Hogan sold a lot) while Hogans was a lot quicker (where Andre sold little). I love how they take the crowd and put them on a quick high and when Hogan gets leveled with the boot the crowd comes down hard. This is all in like 30 seconds, if that. Andre does a wicked chop and then puts Hogan in a bear-hug and the crowd starts to rebuild and regroup. Hogan looks to his side and the crowd just responds and supports him. His movements are very animated, he shows his right and which he uses to try and tuck under Andres arm and create space, but Andre squeezes and Hogan, again, throws his arms up. Hogan continually moves around in the bear-hug (throws his arms up, the hand thing I just mentioned, putting both hands on his head and pulling on his own hair, reaching out to the audience, shaking his body) and that movement is important in not only holding the audiences attention, but to contrast when there is little movement from Hogan later-on as the holds wears him down. He gets worn-down, Joey first shakes Hogans arm and then raises it three times and, of course, on the third time Hogan recovers and comes back to life and breaks Andres grip with a series of punches. The punches work so Hogan keeps doing it, Andre tries to hold on to Hogan by keeping a hand on his tights, Andre lets go and Hogan keeps punching and even sells the punching by shaking his hand as if it were hurt. Two shoulder blocks and Hogan is trying to knock Andre down, but on the third Andre hits Hogan with a chop. Andre throws Hogan against the ropes and hits a big boot which sends Hogan to the outside. Andre puts Hogan against the post on the outside and misses a headbutt (which was business exposing in an otherwise tight match, but that doesn’t matter because the crowd bought it) and Hogan moves around on all fours and gets up, removes the padding, and grabs Ahndre by the hair and his (Hogans) face lights up and the crowd reacts. Hogan sets up a piledriver on the floor but Andre flips Hogan over and then puts Hogan back in. Andre throws Hogan against the ropes for another big boot, Hogan ducks under and hits Andre with a clothesline which sends Andre down. This was VERY well built to as all three things were set-up previously in the match. Andre used the big boot successfully twice on Hogan and different points in the match, Hogan successfully ducked under two headbutt attempts, and Hogan had tried to knock Andre down all match with the axebomber and shoulder blocks. The crowd goes wild and a lil kid starts to jump up and down. Hogan is on all fours, looks up to the audience, shakes his head, and more people jump up and down. He hulks up. He picks Andre up and slams him and the crowd goes NUTS. Hogan drops the leg and gets the 1,2,3 and the crowd goes even MORE NUTS. +The pacing was one of the matches strong points. It was a 10 minute match, tops, and they condensed a 20 minute match into it with 3 comeback spots for Hogan and had Andre on offense for most of it. +The moves were another high point as they used many moves and wasn’t repetitive because of the way they used those moves and sold it. +The set-up and pay-offs as shown in my match description/pbp. +The story is simple – Andre is big and slow, uses his size to his advantage, and looks to wear-down Hogan. Hogan tries to finish it quickly and use his speed to his advantage. Hogan tries to knock Andre down and put him on his back, Andre looks to wear out Hogans back. That's basically it, and that's all they needed.

JOEY SLOTNICK?!

He also has the STF. Wrestling is about perception, not reality. That pretty much answers just about every question anyone ever has about wrestling.

http://www.myspace.com/evan_tanner I know, the damn guy couldn't have it more complicated...

COLD BLOODED! Seacrest is AWESOME. AWESOME. Chris looked like he found out the girl he fucked was really a man. Ain't nothin for Chris, though. He'd be better off in a band than solo.

Oh come on, let's not go overboard. Grannie wear? It's more like Cougar Wear.

Can we get a gif of Katharine doin that lil go-go dancer move? My goodness.

I hated the prospect of Lorelai sleeping with Christopher so much that I didn't watch it.

I don't think Elliot could attract the awkward teenage girl demographic as well as Clay. Maybe the awkward jew demographic.

It's funny watching Novick in Season 2 and Novick in Season 5.

Maybe they got bored?

If so, they should have Elliot and Kellie get married and film it for a reality show. "Gosh, I didn't know Buffalos and Chickens could diddle"

"There's a swiss chalet commercial up here that I despise with all my being. It features a chick walking into the restaurant and a waitress saying "welcome home". The sentimentality is laid on thick and in doing so it has absolutely no emotion at all.

Yeah, I am rooting for the Prez too.

Foreman and House fucking with each others' disabilities could make for a whole new spin-off to the show.

"I take my coffee black - just like I take my brain-dead neutrologists."

Katharine could have SLAYED everyone if she stayed as good as she did during "Shall I stay, Would it be a sin, If I can’t help falling in love with you" verse. Watch the first few seconds of that performance and leave before she gets indulgent.

Elliot and Taylor would be niche performers with limited market range, Katharine is all looks and is actually below Carrie. Carrie fit Country. But what Niche is Elliot? With Taylor you can pretty much say who he appeals to, but I can't quite say who Elliot would appeal to. He's a RnB/Soulish kinda singer, but would that audience buy him? Katharine is a very good singer, but she needs more road experience to find out her proper range and what works best for her. Chris is the most packagable name as he could easily carry a radio rock band without the AI name. The Chris Daughtery Band would be a big hit group. Yeah, though I think name like "The Black Goldfish" or some generic rock name would probably be better.

Ok. Katharine started off AMAZING being more downplayed and there was one particular line which just gave me goosebumps... then she decided to be Katharine. Simon was spot-on. And now I want some Apple Pie.

But Katharine needs to be in the semi finals! Thats the show where she will toootally slut it up in order to beat Taylor and Chris.

Elliot is totally out-working everyone in this competition. The director of this show makes me laff with the quick cuts of the drummer and Elliot. I don't know how to package Elliot Yamin. Good fucking luck to AI if that dude ends up taking it. EDIT: ok, I still don't know how to position Elliot in the music industry, but I will say, where ever Robert Palmer was, Elliot should be there too.

HE DOESN'T BLINK! ELLIOT MADE ME LAUGH BY EMBRACING HIS RATTY SLEAZE.

Chris and David Blaine need to have a brood off. He slept through the first 3/4s of that for the last quarter of AWESOME.