cabbageboy

Bret vs. Shawn is like the Beatles/Stones argument of wrestling fans. Except neither drew anywhere near the money either of those bands did, haha. Here is one argument that I can put in Bret's favor: When he was on top the WWF was at least not #2. I'm ignoring the Aug.-Nov. 97 time period since WCW was already well ahead in the ratings when he got the title. I refer more to the late 1992 to WM 12 time period. It's difficult to really gauge Bret's drawing ability because he was NEVER the guy it seemed like. During the 1993-96 time period it seemed that Vince was constantly looking for the next big star and he just put the title on Bret for lack of a better idea. Warrior/Flair tanking? Put the title on Bret to stabilize things. Yokozuna sucks dick and Luger isn't connecting with fans as much as hoped? Put it back on Bret. Diesel's run is killing the company? Put it back on Bret. Bret mostly got the title when Vince couldn't think of anything else to do. He was never booked as THE MAN, but was a guy who was essentially a transition champion about 5 different times. Michaels however was flat out given the ball in 1996 and he pretty much tanked. Take a look at the buyrates from that period of time with Shawn as champ, they are pretty crappy. Even SummerSlam that year did a really crap buyrate.

I made a vow to jump off the Humanities Bldg. (U of L campus) if Cincy won the nat. title in 2000. We'll never know due to the Kenyon injury but I still think they would have choked. Another classic for your Cincy hating dollar: 1998 2nd round defeat vs. WVU. That kid West from WVU nailing a bank in 3 at the buzzer, Melvin Levett gets his ass kicked and knocked out on the floor....one of my favorite games ever.

Well the thing I find odd about this is the timing. If they were going to fire Huggins it should have been after the DUI. They had it set up to where he was a lame duck finishing his contract anyway. The unreported undercurrent here is this however: It was over for Huggins. Let's face it, all Cincy could hang their hat on was winning C-USA and beating the crap out of U of L every year during the waning days of Denny Crum (and early Pitino era). But now U of L has it going again, kicked their ass last year, and Cincy's dominance in conf. is over. Add to it they aren't going to be winning the Big East anyway and Huggins becomes a liability. They can be a midpack BE team but have a bit better image as a program, know what I mean? The last Huggins game at Cincy was a gem though...the tourney loss to UK. That game emcompasses everything Huggins is all about: Tough effort to start, an opponent that won't be bullied or gooned, and eventual lack of control over his team as it degenerates into 1 on 1 brainlock and the obvious loss.

Exactly. Michaels and his boys damn near killed the company in the mid 90s. In all his time there Shawn has produced maybe 1 really great buyrate (WM 14) and then I'd say it was mostly a "good riddance" type buyrate coinciding with Austin's meteoric rise.

Hogan is fine as far as the occasional special attraction like at SS. But I dunno if I want him in there with the younger guys all that much. I was fine with him vs. Austin at WM since that's two old guys in a dream match. Cena/Hogan isn't anyone's dream match because quite honestly Cena isn't that big of a star at this point.

Good, now Benoit needs a nice run with the US title. You know what's sad though? For god knows what reason I watched Road Wild 99 the other day and Benoit was US champ going against DDP. In 6 years the guy hasn't had much progress, has he? Ah well at least he had the one cup of coffee in the main event.

I dunno about 150 million. The movie only opened at 20 million so it'll have to have insane staying power to hang around that long. I think it might make it to about half that much, but hey 75 million isn't bad and is a nice starring debut for Carell.

Cincinnati Orders Huggins to Resign or Be Fired Bearcats Head Coach Has 24 Hours to Make Decision By JOE KAY, AP Sports CINCINNATI (Aug. 23) - Bob Huggins was ordered Tuesday to resign as Cincinnati's basketball coach or he'll be fired, the culmination of a power struggle with the school president. Getty Images Bob Huggins is Cincinnati's winningest coach, but NCAA rules violations and his own drunk driving arrest have marred his tenure. Talk About It: Post | Chat In a letter faxed to his lawyer by the university, Huggins was given 24 hours to resign and accept a financial compensation package worth almost $3 million. If he doesn't respond by 2 p.m. Wednesday, he will be fired, the letter said. The 51-year-old coach was traveling and had not seen the letter, lawyer Richard Katz said. Athletic director Bob Goin, one of Huggins' most loyal supporters over the years, said he backed the decision. "It's time for the university to move on," Goin said. "We've reached an impasse." Huggins has won more games than any other coach at Cincinnati, but his tenure also has been marked by player arrests, poor graduation rates and NCAA rules violations that landed the school on probation. His arrest for drunken driving last year upset new school president Nancy Zimpher. Huggins was placed on unpaid leave over the summer, but returned and coached last season, the Bearcats' last before moving into the Big East. "Character counts," Zimpher said emphatically. "Our coaches must be exemplary role models on the court and off." By dumping their head coach less than two months before the start of practice, the school put itself at a major disadvantage heading into one of the nation's toughest basketball conferences. Cincinnati will have an interim coach in the inaugural season and mark on its reputation that could chase away recruits. Goin wanted to take a few days before picking an interim coach. The basketball program could feel repercussions for years, but Zimpher said Huggins' removal would help the university in the long run. She noted that the school has been improving in national academic rankings. "The only variable that we have stagnated on is our national reputation," Zimpher said, blaming the basketball program. Earlier in Huggins' career, the program had one of the lowest graduation rates in the nation. It improved recently, but not enough to please Zimpher, who decided to take on a strong-willed coach accustomed to having things his way. The school declined to invoke a roll-over provision in his contract that would have left Huggins with four years on his deal, making it easier to recruit. Katz has tried unsuccessfully to get the contract extended. "We've been discussing with them for the last six or eight weeks an extension of the contract," Katz said. "It appeared he wasn't going to be able to fulfill the remaining two years of the contract because he couldn't recruit, he was running into obstacles at the university. It would not have been appropriate for that to continue." The letter faxed to Katz on Tuesday was signed by the school's legal counsel, Zimpher, Goin and the chairman of the board of trustees. The letter, obtained by The Associated Press through a Freedom of Information request, offered to keep Huggins in some other job until 2008, paying him $2.77 million over that time. He could have no hand in the basketball program. If Huggins declines the offer, he will be fired, the letter said. "I think we would both agree that these negotiations have gone on far too long," the letter said. "Mr. Huggins has clearly expressed, through you, his desire to move in another direction." Zimpher notified Huggins last May that he would not get his contract automatically extended, as provided for in the deal. He was given the option of leaving or continuing to coach on the two-year deal. He held a news conference to announce he was staying rather than informing the administration privately, a move that evidently drove the wedge deeper. The ultimatum sent on Tuesday referred to the May news conference, noting the university had to issue a statement "in light of the fact that coach Huggins chose to deal with contract issues through the media." Huggins went 399-127 in 16 seasons at Cincinnati, rebuilding it into a nationally prominent program after years in disarray. His teams made 14 consecutive appearances in the NCAA Tournament, and reached the Final Four in 1992. The program also had a history of player arrests and infractions. The program went on two years' probation in 1998 after the NCAA concluded there was a lack of institutional control. The relationship between Huggins and Zimpher was strained after he was arrested in June 2004 for drunken driving. The police videotape of Huggins staggering during his field sobriety test was shown nationally. Huggins pleaded no contest to driving under the influence, attended a three-day intervention program, and was suspended without pay by the university for two months. The Bearcats failed to win a league title in their final season in Conference USA, and lost in the second round of the NCAA Tournament. After the season, freshman Roy Bright was dismissed from the team because he had a gun on campus. Assistant coach Keith LeGree was arrested and charged with drunken driving, but was acquitted during a trial. He was reinstated as an assistant coach last month. ___________________________________________________________________ I have to admit this surprised me mainly due to the awful timing of it. I recall hearing Huggins was getting 1 more year and then he was out but this makes zero sense. They just fired their coach a couple months before practice starts, not to mention right before entering what should be an incredibly tough Big East. That said, good riddance. But then again I'm a Louisville fan.

I pondered all of this in some other threads, especially the Eddie thing. I kept insisting that if Eddie is seriously going to get title shots soon he needs to just flat out beat the fuck out of Rey to end this thing and give him some sort of credibility. Cause right now he's a glorified jobber. The weird aspect to it is why does JBL keep getting these opportunities? It's not like he didn't get killed flat out at SS. I mean, I flat out demanded that SS be Cabinet jobbing night, and it was....and then they still go ahead and push em anyway?

What's up with this Hogan/Cena thing? I can't believe anyone would think that would be a good match. For one, the match itself would feature two guys who don't have a lot of believable offense, and as someone already said the crowd would seriously turn on Cena and cheer for Hogan (though maybe a Cena heel turn could accomodate that?). Would this be a title match? God I hope not.

The problem with that HHH/Shawn/Angle/Flair Horsemen group is that everyone there is a top guy. The idea behind the Horsemen was that Flair was the unquestioned leader with the world title, then secondary guys like Tully, Luger, Windham, whoever would go for the US title. Then you had guys like the Andersons who went for the tag titles. But this group? They'd all want a crack at the world title, aside from maybe an older Flair. It wouldn't last very long.

Orlando Jordan getting his ass kicked by everyone in the main. I'm not sure whether to enjoy that or be mad that he's even getting such choice screen time in the main event.

In the end does it really matter how Angle is booked here? I think the Jericho feud showed that a guy booked for shit can still get half the crowd against Cena. Angle has already been booked stronger than Jericho ever was (squashed Eugene, beat Shelton down soundly).

Ok I want to hear the big defense for Yokozuna. Elaborate for me these ***** classics he had. Hell the highest Yoko match rating I can find on a Keith rant is **1/2 for the SS 93 match with Luger and I don't even remember it being that good (and has a lame non decision to boot). The one defense I will say for Yoko is that he apparently drew some decent money. In fact I recall going to a house show in 1994 with a UT/Yoko casket match main and it sold out the Louisville Gardens. I think people might shit on the booking of the UT/Yoko RR 94 match a bit much, considering it at least made you want a rematch where UT would kick his ass with no interference.

Yeah but here's the thing: Austin and Pillman were good wrestlers and thus it actually mattered. The Road Dog and Billy Gunn were struggling but at least Roadie showed some charisma with Jarrett (and was pretty decent on the USWA I might add) and Billy Gunn had several title runs with Bart. Jordan and Basham? Unless they get some out of this world gimmick there is no reason to care. They both suck, have no heat, have shown little potential to draw any heat.

I honestly think Jericho got a sympathy type cheer at SS. Either that or there's a section of the fans that flat out doesn't like Cena and will go for anyone he wrestles.

I'm no big fan of Orton but he's a lot, lot better than Orlando. The guy at least has offense more complex than a friggin punch or armbar. He can at least cut an actual promo with more than "I'm gonna knock you out" involved (The RNN updates were classic).

Have I said Cena needed to be turned heel? Not once. My point about Jericho is that he's a jobber at this point. He's not a real contender, he did nothing to NOT be a jobber anymore, like go on a win streak or win a contender match or tourney. He just got a title shot for no real apparent reason and his only match was to beat up a ref. That isn't exactly a strong contender. And even with that shit booking, the man STILL got about half the crowd? Hell, the main point of booking such a bleh challenger is so that Cena would have the whole crowd on his side. I suppose my main point is that legit over guys don't have half the crowd turn on them during a match. The Rock had it happen a few times but those were just bizarro crowds and the booing was for a variety of reasons.

I am amazed anyone would have the balls to suggest Orlando Jordan should get another win of ANY kind over Chris Benoit. That was kinda the whole point of that SS squash: "Sorry dudes, we fucked up, see now we'll have Benoit squash this jobber." I think Jordan is on the margin for being released. It's just a matter of time before JBL fires him as Chief of Staff (replacement maybe Val Venis or dare I say bring back Ron Simmons?) and after that whatever residual heat OJ had will be gone. Jordan is literally the most worthless guy on either roster. He can't wrestle, can't brawl, can't do aerial, has zero mic skills, zero charisma. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who can't do ANYTHING on the roster. Hell even Tomko had some moments with Christian.

Why change the push Angle is getting? The real problem is that if he is booked this strongly he really should win the title. The Bischoff connection is irrelevant unless Bisch constantly interferes in the match itself. I think the main reason for Bischoff to interfere on Raw last night was to prevent the fans from cheering Jericho much. Angle, if he's booked this strong, doesn't need Bischoff.

Having seen SS, the crowd was much, much more for Jericho than 70/30. I dunno precisely the number of people who cheered for Jericho but I thought he had at least half the crowd. Bear in mind Jericho was booked like a jobber and got that much of a reaction. Things will prove interesting when a strongly booked Angle goes after Cena.

The litmus test of this is coming next month, believe me. The Angle/Cena match is a major, major match in so many ways. I mean, Jericho got a large amount of the crowd and he was booked like a total jobber, never even doing anything worthy of getting a title shot. I've maintained that a lot of fans are ready to turn on Cena (not little kids but 20s-30s males) but haven't had much opportunity since he's been on Smackdown wrestling guys who the fans couldn't possibly respect (JBL, Jordan, Carlito when he debuted, Suzuki, Dupree). They put him in a with a jobbed out Jericho and the crowd was almost 50/50 to the point where they had Bischoff do every vile heel tactic in the rematch to ensure Cena wasn't booed. Angle is being booked as a very strong challenger from the look of things. I wouldn't be shocked if the crowd at Unforgiven turns almost totally on Cena and starts rooting for Kurt. Then what?

I'm already terrified. On Cold Pizza they had football experts saying U of L could go undefeated and play USC in the title game. I seriously hope we don't start believing all this hype a la 2002 and then go out and fuck off and lose to UK or something truly awful. I too do wonder about Tennessee...do they have a lot more than last year? I didn't think they were much last year, but maybe that's because they came THIS close to losing to a 2-9 UK team.

Actually Leslie Nielsen was IN the last Scary Movie flick. I just listed Naked Gun as an example of something totally silly with no serious themes to it, or at least if something was serious it wasn't SERIOUS in the film. Even stuff like Old School has some serious moments (like the old dude dying, Farrell's crumbling marriage). I'd like a Wilson/Vaughn remake of Peach-O-Reno, with the boys as divorce attorneys in Reno by day, casino owners by night.

I am possibly the only person on earth who used to mark out for Rob Bartlett.